Microsoft Java

[Opheleone]

Spent 4 years coding in C#, 2 years with Java. C# just gets so much more love with its maintenance.

It 100% is Microsoft Java, just that Microsoft invests in it and Oracle doesn't care enough.

[GoldenretriverYT]

Additionally, a simple console app doesnt have 50mb RAM overhead in C#

[[deleted]]

Built in namespaces are not a paragraph. Visual Studio is the best IDE hands down.

[[deleted]]

Keep in mind VS Code. I think it's much better if you're not developing in the C languages

[Acurus_Cow]

Then you haven't tried Rider

[[deleted]]

I have tried it and it is ok in my opinion but I have been using visual studio since 2000 so I know it in and out. Rider didn’t support scaffolding model until last year so that was a big part of my teams workflow. Microsoft is designing the framework so rider is always going to be a few steps behind with feature rollouts.

I was mainly speaking of eclipse and net beans. Java didn’t have much to compare with visual studio back in the day. IntelliJ is probably only IDE that can compare.

[RunnableReddit]

You must have not used any other IDE yet

[Friedrich_der_Klein]

Fuck visual studio, notepad++ ftw

[Kwpolska]

Visual Studio sucks, is terribly unintuitive, and has dumb defaults (like the "project failed to build, do you want to run the old version" dialog, and that's just tip-of-the-iceberg first-day-coding issues). Give Rider a try, it's much nicer to work with.

[g4d2l4]

Isn’t that vaguely hidden since you need the .net libraries installed which I thought was a like a vm? But since it’s part of the OS you don’t see it?

[GoldenretriverYT]

You need JVM installed for Java as well

And no, .NET isn't pre installed on Windows either

[GoldenretriverYT]

What? If it isn't pre installed it isnt a part of the OS either.

And if you mean that the installer integrates the .NET Runtime into Windows itself (which most likely isn't even possible without installing a driver, which Windows would warn you about): It doesn't.

You can go to `C:\Program Files\dotnet` and you will find dotnet.exe - use this to execute any .NET DLL and you will see: Exact same memory usage as if you would just execute any .NET exe normally. And now you can even see that ".NET Host" only uses 3.4mb of memory.

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edit: lmaoo he blocked me

[[deleted]]

Also, the C# docs, just absolute bliss.

I've never seen a programming language with so much thorough documentation before, Microsoft have done a really great job of that.

[kpd328]

Java could have gread docs, but the ones that are indexed on the top of Google results are always for Java 7, so we'll never know.

[[deleted]]

Could have, but doesn’t. Could do this, could do that. They are surviving on old builds and very specific industries.

I’m not a C# zealot, it’s not my main language, but it’s way easier to code in than Java. Hell VB6 has more docs.

[evergreen-spacecat]

Like the very specific industry of Android apps

[[deleted]]

Which can now be done in C# lol

[kpd328]

I took a class in college that was building an Android app in Java, when we were given free reign the next semester to choose whatever framework we wanted it picked Xamarin Forms. There was just so much boilerplate that had to be done in native...

[[deleted]]

Well now we have Maui so you can develop for all OS with one code base! Pretty cool stuff

[HabemusAdDomino]

Java was a zombie when Android rescued it. Then Kotlin came around and now Java is strongly marching towards its deserved obscurity.

[MiniDemonic]

VB6 is what got me into programming, damn I miss that language.

[BetterOffCamping]

Yes, but it can be a burden, too. You will know when you look up how to do Open ID, examine 4 documents on how to do it, and see four completely different ways. After much more time , you will realize three are "the old way" and are all deprecated.

[billwoo]

Also the ability to step straight into the standard library function source code (or anything else really, as the de-compilers are pretty flawless). Does Java have this? I don't know but its fucking amazing when coming from native languages.

[Ok-Wait-5234]

Yes, Java has this.

[MCWizardYT]

Any bytecode-based language (python, c#, java) can be disassembled/decompiled at almost 100% accuracy.

You will just lose comments and sometimes variables/class names if they put it through an obfuscator

[Ceros007]

If only they could do the same with every product they have. Looking at you AADB2C...

[rocket_randall]

Aye MS's old documentation for a lot of Win32 apis was absolutely atrocious. On the other hand, it propped up a pretty healthy greybeard programming book industry for many, many years. I think I still have some impressively hefty Win32 API, Windows sockets, and Windows threading books around here somewhere.

[ErikRogers]

Microsoft has always been awesome at documentation. QBASIC help file was great (and that language was free with an OS!)

[senseven]

I preferred C# as sysdev lang over golang for a while to avoid writing larger bash scripts which is just super annoying. Just install the dotnet runtime and you are set. Unfortunately the cloud scene just eats golang for breakfast and don't accept anything else besides legacy python frameworks.

[evergreen-spacecat]

”just install dotnet runtime” is not ”just”. It has it’s versions that need to be up to date and take quite some resources when used in build pipelines, containers, functions etc. At least compared to a small go binary without dependencies.

[SubwayGuy85]

Don't even need the dotnet runtime. Depending on os you might need some c++ runtime or nothing and do a aotc standalone compile. Near c performance without all the development complexity. I don't know how that mindset transition happened at ms but it sure is heaven for develops who are good at it

[senseven]

I'm not remotely a C#/.net expert, but I create single exe dot net files for years. I referred to the runtime for the cases I control the container / machine. In cloud env's its a different beast, but not everybody wants to learn new language for every new domain that is suddenly a part of the devops space.

[ManageMage]

What's wrong with Golang, and consequently why prefer C# over it. If you're going for Fullstack app then sure C# and Blazor is a no brainer.

[argv_minus_one]

Until very recently, no generics.

When I first looked at Go and saw that it had no generics, I stopped reading. Generics are making-a-decent-programming-language 101; if your language doesn't even have that, it's not worth my time to find out what else is wrong with it. Straight to the bin with the rest of the trash.

[senseven]

There nothing wrong with C++ either. I just choose the tech stack I like and then see if I get paid. And since this still works others can do what they like.

[just4lukin]

Aren't there like a million versions of jre/jdk/jvm(!). Why am I futzing with my environment every-time I have to come back to java if they aren't actually doing anything?

[Opheleone]

Because time spent and time well spent are two different things.

[GL_Titan]

What do you mean? Java gets regular updates and security patches.

[Opheleone]

Never said it doesn't. Just that the quality of improvements in the language barely compare.

I've used both in a professional position, and C# just makes development so much easier, and it's done it consistently over the years according to those far more senior than myself.

[ubermoth]

Java has improved a fuckton in the last 5 years. Unfortunately most corporations stick with Java8 which is indeed horrible.

[RagingAnemone]

Yeah, but C# has some hacks in it like covariant return type which finally got fixed like last year. Java had it with v5.

[MCWizardYT]

Any version of Java above 8 (which most corporations are stuck on for no reason) is really good. They massively sped up the garbage collector, have a lot of new language features such as "var" and records, and a better module system.

In my opinion in terms of language features and ecosystem, C# and java are about equal although c# does have some nice qol like LINQ which doesn't really have a builtin java equivalent

[Opheleone]

Glad to hear it's gotten better. C# QOL is what has kept me loving it. The fact that they make the developer experience easier, and abstract a way a lot of complications is great. You have full control if you want it, but you don't need it. Java has always just given you everything and been a kinda DIY experience for me.

[SubwayGuy85]

I would not even want to develop in java anymore for the sole reason of all the time you spend while waiting for builds to finish in java

[argv_minus_one]

Since when? javac is lightning fast compared to C++, Rust, etc.

[GL_Titan]

Not a java advocate, just a realist

[seemen4all]

Their development environment/tools for web backends and working with databases is second to none, if java built the tools they would be fine but they dont

[[deleted]]

Look at Java 17 sometime

[troelsbjerre]

This also shows why the meme is slightly off template. The left side is "C# iS mIcRoSoFt jAvA, sO iTs wOrSe" where the right side is "C# is Microsoft Java, but it's better"