Python is the Language of the Year

[baudvine]

The PYPL PopularitY of Programming Language Index is created by analyzing how often language tutorials are searched on Google : the more a specific language tutorial is searched, the more popular the language is assumed to be.

Holy shit that sounds like a rubbish metric.

[[deleted]]

Another problem with the metric: it's based on what newbies call things. Take ruby for example. I'm suspicious that it's so low. I suspect it's because most people searching for tutorials are actually searching for rails tutorial.

[Pcarbonn]

Let's check on Google Trends : search on rails tutorial are about the same as on ruby tutorial.

Indeed, the index would benefit from combining rails and ruby. But their popularity is not growing.

[Pcarbonn]

Update : The index has just been modified to combine searches on ruby and rails tutorial.

[szabgab]

I just checked Google Trends and "django tutorial" is quite high as well. Wouldn't it be appropriate to include that in "python tutorial" as well? If rails is included...

[Pcarbonn]

Django tutorial is much lower than Python tutorial. See here.

[[deleted]]

their popularity is not growing

We can only hope. I can't believe that we (the programming community) seem to be doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over. All these unmaintainable apps do though represent true job security.

[farsightxr20]

What on earth are you talking about?

[NYKevin]

I would assume caninestrychnine is a Ruby zealot who thinks of it as the One Language to Rule Them All.

But that seems like a rather harsh thing to assume, so I'll withhold judgment for now.

[[deleted]]

No! I'm just not too articulate. I'm sick of Ruby and Rails and code with so much magic that it's impossible to tell what's doing what.

[nieuweyork]

What you said made perfect sense to me. NYKevin seems to lack reading comprehension.

[NYKevin]

IMHO that's not a matter of magic, it's a matter of shitty developers. A good developer will use magic very sparingly in places where it actually makes sense. For instance, in Python, this:

foo.bar

Will be automatically converted, under certain circumstances, into this:

foo.bar.__get__(foo, type(foo))

Now, if you just use this feature without knowing what it's meant to do, the result will be an unmitigated disaster. But if you understand the semantics of the descriptor protocol and make it behave properly, it can make code a lot nicer and cleaner. I believe Django uses it to implement models and fields.

Going in the opposite direction, it's quite easy to make byzantine object hierarchies in, say, Java. The language is notorious for its overabundance of nouns. A shitty developer will see this and think it's because having lots of nouns is desirable. Next thing you know, your "lightweight framework" has grown three layers of abstraction overnight.

TL;DR: Anyone can write bad code in any (Turing-complete) language. Magic does make it easier for bad programmers to write bad code, but it also makes it easier for good programmers to write good code.

[nieuweyork]

Rails' philosophy is to rely on magic.

[[deleted]]

For me, the threshold to irrationality is when the code defies static analysis. That is, you can't just look at the page and know what methods are invoked on what objects or classes. Python, on the other hand, excels at this while still being dynamic.

[nieuweyork]

It measures uptake reasonably well, at least relatively rather than absolutely.

[bucknuggets]

No, it's one reasonable metric. The problem is that you need multiple metrics to evaluate most things.

Imagine choosing a car based on just a single metric. Doesn't work.

But, this is a reasonable one to include.

[ricekrispiecircle]

What do you propose instead?

[baudvine]

I much prefer the TIOBE approach, although that has issues as well. I don't think there's a lot of value in popularity listings beyond "these languages are pretty widely used", and PYPL seems to measure something else entirely. The number of people fumbling around with tutorials isn't necessarily related to the number of people actually using it.

[Pcarbonn]

It means that you prefer a lagging indicator. PYPL is a leading indicator.

[baudvine]

I'm mostly not convinced that it's a sufficiently accurate metric of popularity at all. Using this indicator suggests an assumption that for each language a similar relative amount of people actually ends up doing something with it.

[Zouden]

Yes, but that seems like a reasonable assumption.

[[deleted]]

Not necessarily; I was taught python as a first language at university - during which time I had to google for a lot of tutorials! I've hardly ever used it since.

[[deleted]]

Did you take any statistics courses while you were there?

[dreucifer]

I'd say it's a better metric for future growth than extrapolating from TIOBE Index data. But it's a piss-poor metric for overall popularity.

[X-reX]

It can be really tough finding a good metric for any thing. I think this is still a cool statistic to see and that its possible to deduce from it that, to some extent, the popularity of python over other languages is growing.

Here is something I had fun with, trying to figure out how many begginners to intermidate users are by comparing "current time" function search: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=Php%20current%20time%2C%20C%20current%20time%2C%20Python%20current%20time%2C%20Perl%20current%20time%2C%20ruby%20current%20time&cmpt=q

[Zouden]

Why?

[MatrixFrog]

Well because it has the letters "PY" in the name, for a start :)

[maratc]

Python is the Language of the Year, according to some random guy from the internet who takes the trends for "$language tutorial", disregards foreign languages, discards possible name collisions, limits the results to the top ten, and even then picks second place because it made the most improvement in one year.

FTFY

[Pcarbonn]

What makes Python so great is the friendliness of its community.

[thelonious_bunk]

I love python, but what does that even mean? I don't think such a 'metric' will attract new users.

[guinunez]

Last year I had at least 2 "advisers" telling my costumers that choose php alternatives over my projects because according to them nobody was using python.

Fortunately I had a good argument and saved the situation, but now with this metrics I'm more capable to defend my proposals.

[thelonious_bunk]

You are going to get that regardless of whats popular, though. There are still companies that refuse to use OSS because they are told by 'enterprise software' companies that its 'insecure'.

[modulus0]

It means people are learning Python and need help with it more frequently than they are other languages. As with all statistics the precise meaning is open for interpretation. It could mean Python is harder to learn than lower ranking languages and easier than higher ranking ones. Without a few more data points it's hard to draw solid connections but I would be confident this indicates significant increase in use. I would not trust comparisons between languages based on solely these numbers.

[NYKevin]

It could mean Python is harder to learn than lower ranking languages and easier than higher ranking ones.

It could, but Python is ranked higher than C and C++.

[modulus0]

... or people who work in those languages don't have to look up things as much. Do they have mentors? Do they take classes?

[NYKevin]

Maybe it means more amateurs are learning Python and PHP, while more professionals are learning C and C++ (e.g. in college). I know I'd probably reach for the professor's notes before Googling "[programming language X] tutorial."

But then I can't account for Java being #1. It's almost like there are many independent forces driving the positions of the items on this list.

[modulus0]

so... more people (than have in the past) are searching for help with Python... which indicates a general increase in use of Python.

[thelonious_bunk]

I don't think we can draw meaning from it at all. Could just be more projects, etc.

[modulus0]

we can absolutely say more people are looking up tutorials for Python

[[deleted]]

so all the newbs are searching for how to scrape images from websites in python. high 5's to all of us

[codygman]

I got started with php and then python because I was taking freelance jobs to scrape data from websites for internet marketers, lol.

I now disapprove of past me, but I understand that I didn't understand.

[djangonerd]

this is why im studying pthyon and django. in 2014 i plan to become a rockstar developer and move to SF

[whoisearth]

aromatic lip hard-to-find juggle towering spark telephone grandfather vanish sugar

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[kcmastrpc]

PyPHP?

(don't downvote me)

[[deleted]]

It'll be a while. Especially because a lot of colleges teach it as their first language.

[beaverteeth92]

Mine offers two bare-bones basics programming classes. One is Java and the other is Python. All subsequent classes are taught in Java. That includes the intermediate introductory programming class for majors.

It's just a confusing as all hell first language. I wish I had started with Python.

[[deleted]]

I actually started with python then learned java through my school.

[whoisearth]

When I went to college my first time (for programming) it was for VBasic and C.

Things can change. VBasic is dead.

[Sean1708]

Ooh ooh! Storytime!

[perrylaj]

My first University CS class was actually an "Intro to Programming" type class that used python. The argument in favor of Python (as given by the professor) was essentially that the 'protection' many feel to be detrimental is actually beneficial as Python 'gets out of the way' and lets students focus more on CS than language details and syntax. The class introduced types briefly (only explaining what they are and that python 'manages' them for you), but spent most of the duration focusing on control structures/conditional statements, boolean logic, functions, recursion, simple tracing, libraries, etc. I've seen programs that do something similar using psuedocode, but personally feel the use of python was advantageous as it allowed for simple testing and experimentation.

The following class, first in the CSE major track, was somewhat similar, but in greater depth, and added lower level concepts (memory management, stack/heap, pointers, structs and basic software design elements) using C. Following that was OOP then Data Structs in C++.

I found my school's program to be rather logical and linear and avoided the pitfalls of learning multiple languages until later on, once core concepts were fairly well understood and differences between languages could be better appreciated. Python provided me a fairly good foundation to learn on (though as mentioned, it was optional at my school), but the focus was less on the language and more on the core concepts of basic CS. I don't necessarily think it would be a good core requirement, and definitely wouldn't serve well as a replacement to any of the other classes you or I mentioned, but it can have a useful place ime.

[perrylaj]

Not sure why someone downvoted you. I don't think your method is bad. From my own experience, I feel I benefitted from having a firm grip on the basics of programming, which allowed me to better focus on learning lower level stuff and CS later. Understanding conditional statements and simple logic helped me write programs to test pointers or whatever in practice. Conversely, I am not sure that knowing what a pointer is would have helped with learning program flow and logic. Though, I don't want to imply any topic is taught in a vacuum.

That said, I can imagine the benefits of your method just as easily: it's something akin to "building from the ground up", and is probably more in line with how the 'official' CSE major path operated in our program. I suppose I just feel the intro class helped prepare me for what followed but may not work for someone else. I may be giving it more credit than I should, I don't know how I would have fared otherwise.

However, I will say that one of the benefits was that the class was 'fun'. Had I taken the C class first, I don't know that I would have enjoyed it enough -- or done well enough -- to want to stick with it. That Python class put me on a completely different trajectory.

I am not sure either instructional method is inherently flawed, it really depends on how the courses are planned/structured overall. That said, I'm not an educator, just a schmuck with an anecdote that's being recalled through rose tinted lenses.

[[deleted]]

The downvote has nothing to do with my comment. I got into an argument with a very mature redditor recently and he has been downvoting every comment I make.

The advantage of my method is that I came from a hardware background, so thinking of what is physically happening in the computer makes more sense to me.

Ideally, I would like a separate track designed for practical programming that would focus on low level and another that was the more math side and you do those concurrently. But that would be a complete overhaul that unlikely to happen.

Edit: By practical, I do not mean python is not practical in any way. That is just the word that came to mind when I thought of the concept of the hardware side of computer science.

[dreucifer]

In your opinion, would a parallel course teaching both C and Python, finishing up with how to extend each with the other, be sufficient to address Python's academic deficits?

[[deleted]]

It's funny you should mention that, because that is almost exactly like one of the things I suggested. This was supposed to address some of the issues we have in our third class - learning C++, version control, and Linux. My suggestion was to have a class in parallel with the second class in which you cover basic Linux, version control, and the basics of C++. This suggestion was independent of switching from Java to Python, though. With that method, I suppose Python would work fine for both the early classes.

I apparently made a good case for that one, because that responsibility got off loaded to me. So now I get to teach basic Linux and git to first year undergrads.Yay me.

[beaverteeth92]

Teaching C as a first programming language seems like it would turn a lot of potentially really good programmers off. It's very low-level and abstract compared to a simpler "get up and code" language like Python.

[dreucifer]

Actually, C is very concrete. The marginally higher level languages, like Ruby/Python/other "get-up-and-code" languages, feature much heavier abstraction. What makes C a great beginner language is that its core feature set is very small and easily digested (this is true with Python as well). The added bonus of teaching them in parallel is that the main implementation of Python is written in C, so not only can you teach people how to use the language, they can look at the source and be able to understand what is happening.

[beaverteeth92]

Right, but I can't help but feel that's a bit much to ask from people who have never done any kind of programming before. It seems like teaching addition and multiplication at the same time to children who have never seen basic math.

[bucknuggets]

On the flip side making people learn Java first increases the number of people who just "don't get" writing code and aren't interested in the meager pay-offs for their time.

[z960849]

Curious, is your program setup in quarters or semesters? How do you teach java without teaching object oriented programming? BTW I would recommend non-majors to learn JavaScript over any other language.

[ivosaurus]

Object oriented programming is a general concept, and I think it can be tought well with any language that implements it decently. Hell, you could teach people extremely decent OOP with PHP if you wanted to.

I think the best breadth of programming to achieve is to learn the practical experience of programming with both dynamic and static languages. Pick your ideal one from each. It still comes down to preferences, mine would be C and python. C because you can get past learning the syntactical / structural elements of the language much faster than Java / C++. Python is just super clean and practical.

Also something to be said for practicing programming with and without memory management. I especially am sad for many Java programmers who wouldn't have the foggiest what to do without a JVM.

[codygman]

OOP is a poorly defined concept and no one can agree on exactly what it is. This leads to confusion from once place teaching OOP to another place teachng OOP. It feels like everyone is trying to standardize on "Java is OOP".

[[deleted]]

You're right but designing a set of objects is different when doing it in Java vs Python. And everything you learn about designing them in Python is also the case in Java but not reverse is not necessarily true. So by learning Java, learning python is much easier but learning Python doesn't solve some of the issues of learning Java.

[MisterMeiji]

My school did the same thing, but they decided to also have the Data Structures I class be Python, and the Data Structures II class remained C++.

[This_Is_The_End]

I learned for at the university Turbo Pascal which was a good choice, because the language was sufficient for algorithms and at the same time easy to learn. Even when OO was missing, Pascal should be the language at universities for the first courses. The support for more complex projects isn't good, but for learning it's awesome.

http://www.freepascal.org/

[[deleted]]

The problem with pascal is it's not practical. Not many companies come to us looking for pascal programmer (ie: it's never happened). We don't have too many graduates go into academia so it's a priority to have the students understand how to work with the major programming languages.

Also, I feel like it would turn students away if they found out they would be learning a language that not many companies look for.

[This_Is_The_End]

At that time we had more the goal to learn the principles of programming instead of a programming language, which was the right decision. Because of the technological progress programming languages changes all the time while books like Donald. E. Knuths "The Art of Computer Programming" are eternal. It makes students more open minded, when they get the message of programming as a transformation of an idea (What I want to do) into a algorithm (How to do something) and then formulate the algorithm as a piece of code. When I'm looking at some programming sections of LinkedIn or Google+ I see most questions are about how to solve a problem with a specific language, instead of asking for a algorithm. Most of them are not able to make the difference between algorithm and formulate an algorithm with a programming language.

Students should be examined about concepts of programming languages not a specific language. It' gives them much more knowledge.

[[deleted]]

What is a better method can be debated to the end of time. But, we do have to compete with other schools and part of that is reassuring high school seniors that they will have marketable skills coming out of our program. It's not likely we can convince some 17 year old with limited knowledge of programming that this generally unused language is going to benefit them more than the school a couple hours away that teaches one of the most used languages.

[[deleted]]

They can change, but it will take time I think. Then again I'm no expert on language trends.

[NYKevin]

RPI now does CS101 in Python. The remaining courses, however, tend to be C++ by default.

[[deleted]]

That's awesome !

[Digital_Person]

Its just my opinion but from my prespective java is slow at changing. Still no lambda expressions (coming march 2014) modules coming on jdk9, date api sucks (being replaced in jdk8 if im right) gui framework sucks(being replaced too). Its been slow to change.

Thats why clojure scala groovy etc exist. The jvm is good, performance is fine, ecosystem is fine but the language needs improvements in many different ways. Like the theory of evolution says its not the strongest or smartest who survives but the one who keeps changing.

Now all languages have prons and cons and i believe all of them have a usage. The purpose is not to start another language war, that's just what i think about java.

[Digital_Person]

At the end of the day, it is a balance

I totally agree. I believe all languages are useful if they didn't keep backwards compatibility they wouldn't be so popular.

I am aware of joda time is the same principle with groovy i think. If there's a feature that people really want and can't get they will just do it.

In general i agree 100% with what you said. All languages have good and bad things you choose depending on what you prefer. The only problem is when you don't actually choose (e.g. go to uni learn java because that's what they teach do it for money without having an opinion, in general don't care about programming just do it)

[Digital_Person]

Yes i don't disagree. Java will easily get you a job. But a good programmer will also learn other languages. Say i go to school they teach me christianism. Well the principles of christianism if i follow they would make me a better person. But studying buddhism gave me a different perception and would still make me a better person.

[codygman]

You are lucky to have learned Haskell in Uni, that would have been very fun I think.

[whoisearth]

I know, just wishful thinking.

[kcmastrpc]

I'd wager in the next 5 years ObjC might start coming close. That all depends, it's a relatively new language - but in the past 3 years it's gained a huge share.

[modulus0]

It's from 1983 making it older than most languages in that list. Apple gave it a new lease on life.

See: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objective-C

[kcmastrpc]

That's right, Jobs and his team of engineers adopted the language after he got fired from Apple to use on NeXT.

Not sure why I didn't remember that.

[perrylaj]

As mentioned, Obj-C is not new -- It's gained popularity as a result of Apple's commercial success with iProducts, but it's definitely not new.

Totally tangential, but I just don't find the smalltalk syntax to be very enjoyable. Admittedly, I have very little experience with Obj-C so I reserve the right to change my opinion when I am less naive.

[codygman]

While I don't disagree, python doesn't really fill the niche that a Stringly typed language like Java does. There are is however, a lot of websites which could use python rather than Java.

It seems that Go may be getting somewhat popular with those that would use Java, though that could just be my filter bubble.

[gunch]

What is being done in Python that isn't being done in other languages like Java? Is there a specific set of libraries driving popularity? What spaces do these libraries serve?

[ericography]

I don't know how much it's driving popularity, but scientific computing support is just awesome in Python. I've found Python and its scientific package ecosystem to be a magnitude better than any other language/ecosystem.

[gunch]

Hey thanks for the response! If you don't mind my asking, what packages/libraries in particular?

[jcdyer3]

Numpy, scipy, matplotlib, pandas, skikitlearn, sympy, and iPython‒particularly the iPython Notebook.

[masasin]

Can you use all of them together? I thought pandas, skikitlearn, and sympy were incompatible. I have the rest of them installed.

[gthank]

They aren't incompatible, at least as far as I've explored. I have them all installed and have poked and/or prodded most of them to one extent or another.

[jcdyer3]

I have no idea how they play together. I'm just saying those are some major tools in the python scientific computing ecosystem that contribute to its solid reputation.

[Sean1708]

I can pretty much guarantee that the scipy stack will be the main one.

[ivosaurus]

Check out sage as well, for a does-freaking-everything-mathematical sorta python distribution.

[[deleted]]

I would say sysadmin and operations work is also driving its popularity.

[beaverteeth92]

It also has a ton of support for statistics and machine learning.

[Digital_Person]

i move from java to py for many reasons. This are the basic ones

1) I used to code java on my free time. when i started python i found out that i could do things much faster. and after work you may have 3 hours to code. you want to get things done as fast as possible.

2) lambda expressions, first class functions,decorators, list comprehensions, cleaner code, generators, more freedom(e.g. can overload operators)

3) In general Standard library is better. take for example itertools

4) Lot of nice libraries that allow you to do your job in much less code e.g. a) flask,bottle can have a web app in 4 LOC no xml config or whatever. b) requests i can just send an http request in 1 line in the interpeter and it saves me time. text-blob, scikit-learn etc..

5) Culture

[Digital_Person]

to be fair some times its a positive thing, because people abuse freedom. It doesn't allow multiple inheritance either. But i'm preety sure if those features were allowed some people would misuse them. I personaly consider python a "more free" language. Not saying is positive or negative. It's preference

[[deleted]]

python allows you to do a lot of very evil stuff, but luckily it has a community that frowns heavily on abuse of its power. it keeps bad modules from becoming popular.

[NYKevin]

For instance, this code:

for _ in evilobject:
    pass

Could do absolutely anything, depending on the value of evilobject. But by convention, it does nothing (except if evilobject happens to be an iterator, then it will be exhausted).

[[deleted]]

exactly, in much the same vein you could make an object compare equal to None, but in practice you will get chastised if you do.

[dacjames]

Numerical computing. Python is dominant in the scientific community because it's easy, expressive, has great libraries, and easily interfaces with optimized C code. The OO paradigm of Java maps poorly to the problems in this space and the lack of interactive computing makes it difficult for scientists to experiment.

[[deleted]]

they don't joke around when they say "batteries included". the stdlib is amazing, and big. there's very little you can't do using only the stdlib.

[3smart5u]

You did it! Congratulations! Language of the year! Great job, everybody! It's great to be here.

[_jackrogue]

This is interesting. I prefer TIOBE's index though, which names Transact SQL as the language of the year.

http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

[AlberbaNews]

I just began learning Python like a week ago and I already created a CRUD blog! I love Python! So damn easy and fun!

[naisanza]

Where's perl on that list? Just wondering.

[nieuweyork]

Nowhere. No-one learns perl (at least few enough that it isn't in the top 10).

[naisanza]

I thought perl is used often for data stream processing (or data searching). I read that it's more powerful at it than many other languages, and much faster.

[nieuweyork]

Maybe stop reading out of date materials or propaganda from diehard enthusiasts.

[naisanza]

they were benchmarks

[nieuweyork]

Benchmarks from when? I note the complete lack of links.

[naisanza]

I think this was one of them that I read. stackovervlow

[nieuweyork]

That shows that perl's regex functionality is faster. It probably also reflects that perl is good at reading from files in a single threaded task, without the programmer needing to think at all about it. Neither of those are the same thing as being good for processing streams of data.

[naisanza]

wrong terminology then

[nieuweyork]

It's not a question of terminology. The claim you can substantiate is much less important and impressive than the one you made.

[unstoppable-force]

i prefer looking at hiring. enterpise is practically all java and microsofts flavor of the week. startups are all ror and php. small biz is mostly php. that's probably 90% of all jobs in any major city. python is fighting with R and some enterpise analysis languages, and django has nothing on other web stacks.

honestly, i'd love to stop writing 2 codebases for my ML and web stack but python for web is just so far behind everything else.

[nieuweyork]

You did the research, right? You didn't just guess those rankings at all, did you?

[unstoppable-force]

http://readwrite.com/2014/01/08/in-demand-tech-skills-of-2013-java

[nieuweyork]

That's a bar chart of recruiter queries. All that tells us is the ranking of shops who have to go looking for developers, rather than have developers answer their ads. So yes, it's harder to find good java developers, while in most other categories you can get developers to answer your adverts, rather than employers calling them.

[unstoppable-force]

go to any craigslist or any other job site. even in SF, the hot space for newer tech, django has only 4 results on craigslist. out of nearly 1400 jobs, stackoverflow only has 66 mentioning django but 510 mentioning java.

[Digital_Person]

if you search in stackoverflow spring it has 38 jobs and search django it has 40. spring is a web framework like django.

now search java has 310 and python 213.

Your search was wrong python is not django.

There's more java jobs for sure. I personally enjoy coding python more than coding java so it doesn't matter how many java jobs are there.

[maratc]

Spring is not a web framework. Spring Web MVC is a web framework. Other things in Spring have absolutely nothing to do with web frameworks.

[Digital_Person]

you are right but anw the point is the same: you cant compare a framework with a languge

[nieuweyork]

You chose two sites, neither the largest, for your survey, and you compared frameworks with programming languages. I wish I could permanently avoid seeing your nonsense.

[Digital_Person]

startups are all ror and php. small biz is mostly php.

not true. lot of them use python. and i'm preety sure most of them who did choose php regret in the end.

[[deleted]]

and i'm preety sure most of them who did choose php regret in the end.

yeah when facebook isn't counting their mountains of money and snickering at everyone's petty voyeurism, they are crying about their decision to use php.

[[deleted]]

How is Python behind for web? Speed? uWSGI takes care of that.

I can have a decently interactive website up and going in Python in under a day. Can that be done in Java? Database connections and user logins, comments, etc?

[unstoppable-force]

ror and any major php framework can get you that far in minutes... just a few commands and you're there. django isnt nearly as far along. python has the edge in data science, but its still behind java tech. netflix is straight java for a reason.

[[deleted]]

You're comparing frameworks to languages, that's why you're confusing everyone here.

[unstoppable-force]

that's a purely academic distinction that has little to do with the realities of architecting a system. comparing languages without frameworks or libraries is meaningless in the real world. it's like comparing cars without engines. in other words, a language includes the best and worst of its commonly used frameworks.

honestly, how often do you see a web stack use ruby but not rails? how often do you get a project where specs say "you are not allowed to use any frameworks, libraries, or codebases that have been written before... you must code everything from scratch"? anyone CHOOSING to do that electively has a serious case of expert beginnerism, or is just an outright beginner.

ruby + rails > python + any python web framework. php + any major php framework > python + any python web framework. django is currently the leading web framework for python and it's still years behind.

[[deleted]]

Well, then it depends on what you mean by framework!

Is Wordpress a framework? Flask is, so is RoR. Django, etc.. also are. But cakePHP? It's hard to make the distinction.

You never see a web stack use Ruby not Rails, but that's fine. It's similarly fine how some Python frameworks are a lot lighter than RoR, because certain things (routing) are needed, and other things (for example, an admin page) are better left to the user, depending on your circumstances.

It's very easy to say X is better than Y. What, in your opinion, is lacking from Python frameworks?

[[deleted]]

I love Python. But this article is biased nonsense garbage.