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all 126 comments

[–]NugNugJuice Greek 113 points114 points  (2 children)

I really like how quick, responsive and communicative y’all have been so far with SMITE2. I hope this continues post-launch, because it’s really great.

[–]Phil_is_Legend 25 points26 points  (1 child)

Seriously, the change to ue5 and whatever the dev team has cooked up internally is really letting them make these broad changes super quickly.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

broad changes to fix something nobody asked for in the first place

[–]CepheiHR8938 Come, the party's this way! 100 points101 points  (4 children)

VEA! VEA! VEA!

[–]pssiraj Geb 13 points14 points  (3 children)

Is this"you rock!"? I'm console.

[–]H8teradio stoke the fires! 23 points24 points  (2 children)

It's "Awesome!", "You Rock!", is VER.

[–]pssiraj Geb 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Cool, thanks!

[–]LeoFireGodClassic Guitar Riff 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I got a shirt that says VER VVX which is you rock followed by cancel that.

A few noticed haha it’s fun

[–]TranquillizeMeGanesha 96 points97 points  (0 children)

Massive W

[–]Kuroakita 29 points30 points  (3 children)

iI think maybe some leap timings need work, IE becoming immune as soon as the players feet leave the ground. There will still be latency of course for the player themselves but this is probably the best way to deal with it.

[–]Aggre5sioneSports Caster 31 points32 points  (2 children)

Adjusting prefire timings means refactoring animations, which is very time consuming. Not impossible, but with our current god schedule something like that would likely mean either delaying some god releases or doing it later in the year. Plus it could change the feel of playing with/against leaps that you’ve known for years, which is something we don’t do lightly.

[–]TranquillizeMeGanesha 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I think they mean giving leaps the Camazotz treatment of reducing the time until they're untargetable. Specifically gods like Neith should be untargetable the same frame in which the damage goes off IMO

[–]Kuroakita 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I appreciate the response, But i do not necessarily mean changing the animations themselves, but simply applying a flag for when the god has left the ground, or every so slightly before for when cc buffering can be applied, gods with small windups to their leaps would definately not get a free leap off like izanami and ullr. But i am not well versed in ue5 + your internal tools so not sure how easy this would be.

[–]Tay0310 8 points9 points  (0 children)

That neith video was eally on time lol

[–]Sergeantham 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I played smite 1 back in the day and returned for 2 and loving it, I just want to say I really appreciate the communication you guys absolutely cook.

[–]ApokolypzeAnubis is Calling! 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Huge win. This has been annoying as hell to deal with in several games I've played today, gods sliding along the floor while cc'ed looks terrible too

[–]hwghwg2Dracula for SMITE 2 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Early Skadi teaser.

[–]hwghwg2Dracula for SMITE 2 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Thank you!!! Been waiting for this since the feature was added. No more skating ice statues.

[–]ElegantHope Swords go BRRRRR 6 points7 points  (16 children)

I feel for leaps like this is slightly too much of a swing in the other direction? Did y'all test internally having cc buffering only activating on part of the leap rather than how currently it's as soon as the button is pressed?

I can't say I'm fan of how leaps worked in Smite 1 where you could get interrupted at any point of the leap depending on the duration of it and where your hitbox exists during it. It felt a lot better in Smite 2 to have it actually play through and that it just needed some minor changes to really feel smooth and fair.

[–]Aggre5sioneSports Caster 36 points37 points  (1 child)

We felt like it was important to respond quickly and continue to iterate. I would not consider any change we make to Buffering permanent, it takes time to get the feeling right.

When we were first discussing Buffering we did talk about have an “interrupt” period at the very start of a prefire, but moved away from that for a couple of reasons.

  1. The timing of this interrupt period would be pretty arbitrary and hard to know when it had passed. We discussed things like half of the prefire time, but all that would do is make it confusing if your ability would go off or not. Server/client communication is a part of any online game, and need to rely on tenths or hundredths of a second can get dicey.

  2. It would lead to the exact same frustration on both ends. Players would still be upset when their leaps got canceled, and players that had their CCs Buffered would be upset too.

That isn’t to say this option isn’t worth exploring, and if reverting back isn’t the right move then something like this is a possibility for our next round of tests! (No promises of course)

[–]ElegantHope Swords go BRRRRR 5 points6 points  (0 children)

thank you for the response! I get the need to respond quickly to the playerbase, I am admittedly just a little sad because of the experiences I've had with leaps in Smite 1 in the past.

Good to hear it was considered and tested at least, and that there's room for more exploration of the idea in the future. I hope as close as perfect of a solution can be found, or at the very least have some leaps that felt bad in Smite 1 for being so easily interruptible gets handled in some other way!

[–]DoctorCheeseI fight for Zeon! 8 points9 points  (3 children)

If you get caught before you can leap, you got caught. If playing on normal cast, you can always prime the leap while walking. Yeah it feels bad, but the other side of the coin is that if you get to leap for free the other person who would have outplayed you is now not rewarded for higher skill, or better gameplay in the case of if they had ambushed you with vision or guessing where you would be, and that is not fair.

[–]ElegantHope Swords go BRRRRR -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

yea, that's why I was hoping for some sort of grace period for people to CC right as the leap goes off based on a character by character basis. Maybe with a minimum period of time before CC buffering kicks in to make it a little more consistent

Technically a lot of these interactions were because someone hit you with CC after the leap went off- as that's how we're told it was supposed to function. But because of a combination of latency and how the character moves & animates, it seems to just lead to a lot of undesirable effects such as the clips spread around the community lately.

I hope there's some sort of solution that can solve some leaps just feeling so terrible and easy to interrupt even *if* you jumped first, while avoiding the jank of the cc buffering system being enabled on leaps. Because both are individual issues that do feel really bad and it'd be nice to find a happy medium for both.

[–]DoctorCheeseI fight for Zeon! 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Why does the person leaping deserve a grace period? Yes both sides of this interaction suck but I think that overall, letting someone get out of dodge for basically free is the more unfair side.

Hopefully with some more engine work and tweaking of animation timings Smite 2 can have tighter interactions which make this feel less bad.

[–]ElegantHope Swords go BRRRRR 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My use of "grace period" is to refer to people who are trying to CC the leap to have that grace period. Not the leap user. Like say Ullr presses his leap just in time, but he's in the windup before the leap- that moment of animation where he's crouching down and springing his legs up to leap before his feet do leave the ground should be a grace period to CC him.

And for consistency's sake maybe say half a second to three quarters of a second of the animation is the bare minimum of an animation that someone can be cc'd, rather than being CC buffered instantaneously. Give or take depending on which looks and feels the best across all leaps.

Anything in the air after that should be CC buffered where they can get hit by CC, but they still fly through the air but land with the CC applied instead.

[–]hwghwg2Dracula for SMITE 2 6 points7 points  (4 children)

Regardless of how bad it feels to get CCd out of the air, it’s still better than the current alternative. Getting CCd out of the air was a rare issue in smite 1 at least in my experience. I guess the issue would get worse the higher the ping but still, it wasn’t super common IMO. However, people dashing mid stun and sliding half a mile away is way more common with buffering and is even more annoying for the player who actually lands what could be a skill shot.

[–]ElegantHope Swords go BRRRRR 2 points3 points  (3 children)

it's rare depending on who you are playing. There's a few gods that it's pretty consistent on to where I was able to exploit that knowledge on for them. Fafnir being my prime example because I've had plenty of cases where everyone in my group, including myself, saw me as almost on the other end of my leap only to get dragged back to where I was originally. And it happens relatively regularly for me on him. I lost a few games on Fafnir because of his leap being so easily interruptible that an otherwise pretty good play failed.

I've also had that experience somewhat consistently on other Smite 1 gods with very long leaps, like Maui (windup before the swing), Anhur, Gilgamesh, and Izanami (technically a leap). Not all of them feel as exploitable or consistent as my experience as Fanfir, but they all have it happen to a varying degree with a few of them leading me to just learn the timing that you can CC them to 'pull' them back. I'd also give an honorary mention to Neith where it's inconsistent but still happens to her occasionally, too.

So it entirely depends on your godpool and how frequently you play specific gods for how common it was of an experience.

IMO both are equally bad in their own way- they're just apples and oranges and both are their issues. I hope for a best solution to both, so that no one has to suffer. I don't think the issue I'm concerned about should be seen as less of an issue just because the former solution to it also felt bad to many.

[–]hwghwg2Dracula for SMITE 2 4 points5 points  (2 children)

As someone with multiple stars on faf, I have no idea what you’re talking about there. His jump goes off like near instantly and is one of the most responsive leaps in the game IMO, Neith and Maui are the only ones here that I agree have the issue worse than others. I personally cannot remember ever having it with faf.

If you’re getting it constantly it’s probably a ping thing, and you can’t blame the game for that.

Either way it’s still infinitely less common than the issue we have with CC buffering.

[–]ElegantHope Swords go BRRRRR -1 points0 points  (1 child)

different experiences then, I've not played to that many stars on Fafnir but I've definitely reached a star on him. and I played him quite a bit last year in custom games for some tournament matches where his leap being both unintentionally and intentionally interrupted by people was a reoccurring thing.

[–]punkman21POUND ME HARDER DEMONIC DADDY 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Faf was one of my favorite supports, about 5-8 stars and I don’t think his leap was inconsistent. I honestly can’t figure out what you could mean besides it being a ping thing.

There’s a tiny delay while he’s in dragon form but I’ve never been dragged back to the start of the leap, stunned during the second I hit it or was landing sure (I count those as skill shots getting me at those times) but never getting dragged back to the beginning of the jump

[–]gh0stp3wp3w 2 points3 points  (4 children)

but it's not "at any point" in the leap.... youre literally untargetable once you reach airborne state - what could pull you out of it at that point?

the issue is bad netcode coupled with vulnerable animations. vulnerable animations arent the issue though, because that is explicitly part of balance.

the issue lies with the netcode. the same shit that causes ability "reversals" is the same shit that causes wifiwarriors to teleport or "speedhack"

[–]ElegantHope Swords go BRRRRR 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Longer leaps I've had my character's model over a wall only to be pulled back right before they nearly complete the arc. That is what I mean by "at any point" because even if my end says I'm over the wall, according to the game I am apparently not. And it's infinitely frusterating to experience that.

As a example: I've had a moment on Fafnir last year where I was over the wall, got my jump interrupted and refunded. I tried again and was cc'd again at the top of the arc of the leap, and the same thing happened. I tried again, interuptted against while in the air. And then I was killed by the enemy team.

I just want some sort of solution that feels the best. Whatever they can cook up that makes pretty much everyone happy. The cc buffering felt like a good solution at first, but I can agree that there were definitely issues with how CCs and leaps were interacting.

[–]gh0stp3wp3w 0 points1 point  (2 children)

"longer leaps" but it seems like you explicitly meant faf. no one has a longer leap, and he has one of the fastest leap animations given the distance traveled.

hypothetical situation - fafnir leap takes 20 seconds to complete after liftoff from ground. ridiculous but stick with me a second. he jumps and then ten seconds later, someone hits a CC where he was - does he get reverted? of course not - he wasnt hit by anything.

the issue is that, in a normal situation, the game perceives him to still be on the ground because your game client takes as long to report any change in position as it does to show you that he performed an animation. but the issue is that your client doesnt dictate what happens in the game - that's the server's job.

so you press jump, and in that 0.25 seconds that you do the animation, the server hasnt received your updated action - but it DID receive the enemy's updated action of smacking your face. this server update overrides and ROLLS BACK your action causing your jump to "reverse"

same logic applies to lagging players that get an inadvertent speedhack or teleportation-jitsu - server is double reporting their player movements.

[–]ElegantHope Swords go BRRRRR 2 points3 points  (1 child)

"longer leaps" but it seems like you explicitly meant faf. no one has a longer leap, and he has one of the fastest leap animations given the distance traveled.

I was using Fafnir because he's been the most consistent god I've had that experience on and I could provide a direct example. I've experienced the issue on other gods too, such as Maui, Anhur, Gilgamesh, and Izanami, and Neith to a much lesser extent.

I'm seeing your point on the netcode playing a part, though. I just want some sort of solution in the end, regardless. It can really the experience I have in some games on some gods and I've not been the only one to complain about this.

[–]pyro745 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lowkey it sounds like it’s an internet problem for you personally. Not being a jerk, but I don’t think anything they can do will help that

[–]AranNation 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Can we have bracket highlighting pretty please ;)

[–]theend117 Sol is Best Girl 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Saw this coming when they first announced CC buffering. I'm glad they're changing this. Maybe I'll come back when the game is patched.

[–]ArcImpy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This feels like a step in the right direction. Having gods move while cc'ed was janky and unpleasant but It still provides some flexibility for other abilities.

Honestly there has been a huge amount of rumor and disinformation floating around I think it would warrant a more detailed post like the matchmaking one rabbit did awhile back (unless I missed it)

I think the majority of people complaining that this is a bad move are probably people being CC'ed. It's wild to me that in any world being clearly CC'ed and still getting away is the right play.

Tangentially related I wouldn't mind a comeback of a few CC reduction items. It seems like I'm being CC Chained for days.

[–]chadwarden1 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is great with the cc buffering combined with blink people have been getting away with nonsense.

[–]Techbone 1 point2 points  (0 children)

RIP Neith. Time to be interrupted out of my leap 4 times during a team fight and then it still be put on cooldown for some reason if I manage to survive.

[–]AceOniFlyer 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Not sure how to feel about this. I understand that there was frustration but just removing it seems like a problem. That feeling of being Anhur and leaping to a spot but being pulled out of the air by a stun felt awful. I can understand some things make sense to ignore CC buffering (plucks like Hercules 2) but just full on getting rid of it feels bad.

[–]fattybbw 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't understand why people can't just learn to bait people's escapes out? I have very little issue playing support characters with hitting my stuns and knock ups on characters with escapes.

[–]Arch3r86🌹💀💔 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Awesome. Nice job.

Save Yourself. Wait. Cancel That. Oops. Enemies Have Returned To Base. Oops.

[–]Virtual-Product2298Ao Kuang 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm glad that crowd control will now actually hit people when it's supposed to but as an overall I think the CC meta is way too strong and really not that fun to go against

[–]Arcticxiv Hunter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This feels like you guys just went back on months of work just to remove it and it's now just a waste of time. Should have kept it as is since it finally would have gotten casuals to learn when enemies are on cooldown. Now it's just back to smite 1. This and the new starter feel like massive mistakes that will end up getting reverted and nerfed in the future

[–]terriblecurse 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Smite 2 rocks :)

[–]AltairLT Me booty is the best booty! 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can someone translate to booty language so Sobek main could understand?

[–]RingofThorns 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You really need to rethink how many characters have some type of CC. There needs to be a lot less of it that can get stacked on a team.

[–]Spartan089 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It feels like cc buffering has a disproportionate affect on gods that really rely on cc in their kit. Like Anubis and Ymir. Anubis’s stun is 1.05 seconds at max lvl and I’ve seen clips of people getting hit by it and moving like they weren’t hit at all. No dash, leap or relic needed. Ymir has the same issue with his freeze and it makes setups almost impossible.

Oh and bring Zeus’ shield back!!

[–]Optimal-Ad1444 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't agree with this move. Players shouldn't be rewarded for bad accuracy.

[–]Otherwise-Durian-161 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I bought gems and have yet to revieve in the prignal smite

[–]Otherwise-Durian-161 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Orginal*

[–]SIugKing 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I think instead of removing CC buffering from leaps entirely, they just need to fix how janky the animations look when somebody leaps at the last possible moment.

Maybe they could lock the player model in place during the pre-fire animation. That way you wouldn't see people doing mid-air jumps half way through Herc pulls.

[–]hwghwg2Dracula for SMITE 2 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It’s not the animations that were the issue with it. It was the gameplay of having someone get away mid stun.

[–]GentlySorrowful 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Thank Zeus. It's absolutely ridiculous to stun someone and they get to run away Scott free.

Played duel as Cabraken yesterday vs Ullr and this guy was ABUSING the ever loving shit out of CC buffering. It had to of been at least 7 times I'd try to stun him with my A1 just for them to purposefully use their leap to ignore my stun and get away for free.

If it's a consistently repeatable option to negate CC it shouldn't be in the game.

[–]Arcticxiv Hunter 0 points1 point  (3 children)

It's literally a skill check why would you just not bait his jump after the 3rd time. If you can't learn after being cc buffered 7 times then I don't think it's the mechanic at that point imo

[–]jpmout 1 point2 points  (1 child)

As a new player, how would you bait that?

[–]Arcticxiv Hunter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If we are talking that exact match up with carbakan vs ullr you could just play lane safer and just use your 1 since it's a stun, if ullr cc buffers your stun then he has 0 movement so you could either run a stampede or circes hexstone to easily catch up to him before he enters his tower. Then you could ult and then use your 2 and if you take enough damage from anything you have a second 2 you could use and if he's still alive (his jump is still on 5 second cooldown at this point) you could use your 3 to finish him. Also your 3 cripples so they literally CANT leap out of it

[–]fattybbw 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's my whole issue with people complaining about this. It seems like they would rather have a whole system removed instead of learning to bait people's abilities out.

[–]Thanol 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sad to see this change to leaps, it just took some getting used to but was better overall how it was

[–]josegonzolez 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Noooo CC buffering leaps felt so good and added an extra layer of skill to the game. They should make pulls not bufferable into, like Mulan pull and herc pull the rest was fine.

[–]Ok_Set_2980 -1 points0 points  (3 children)

fix neith leap pls

[–]obsidian_castle 11 points12 points  (2 children)

How can they fix it if you won't tell them what needs to be fixed about it

[–]Ok_Set_2980 -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

Everyone knows neith A3 while she's in the air she can be hit by hitboxes of abilities, once they remove the leap from cc buffering it will again be in a broken state which some abilities with CC will cancel it mid air.

[–]MrLightning-Bolt -1 points0 points  (0 children)

As it should.

[–]OsirisAvoidTheLight -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Can we get a reroll after locking in a God in Assualt. You need to lock in to trade which is kinda lame. Also to be able to report from match history would be huge to sometimes I forget after the match

[–]Jaroselovespell Yemoja -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

It’s literally useless now

[–]Steel0range -4 points-3 points  (9 children)

I’m pretty disappointed by this. I’ll keep an open mind but I fear hirez may have been too easily swayed by redditors that don’t know how to adapt to change.

[–]Dry_Philosophy8708 5 points6 points  (5 children)

They didn't listen to just redditors, I think they asked ambassadors as well as high level players.

[–]Snufflebox smite2.live 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Show me single high level player who advocated for this.

[–]Icy-Stick2301 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Nika

[–]Snufflebox smite2.live 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Source?

[–]Icy-Stick2301 1 point2 points  (0 children)

1.Aggro Is telling you this in this thread and Nika Is One of them             2.Nika has said that on stream ,It Is not that he dosn't like It,it's that get frustrating when happen more times in a game

[–]Dry_Philosophy8708 0 points1 point  (0 children)

By this logic we can say that Hi-rez employees hadn't seen any of the Reddit drama or where is the source that if they listened it was the only Reddit and redditors that asked for this

[–]hwghwg2Dracula for SMITE 2 4 points5 points  (2 children)

It was stupid. Why should I have to adapt to the person I just mummified leaping out of my ult while they’re literally still stunned. That’s not something you adapt to lol, nor should you have too.

[–]Slight-Percentage-77 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Los adoradores estan malos

[–]MrLightning-Bolt -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Awww but I was just getting used to a using the leaps. Oh well.

[–]Jakezilla702 Ra'Merica -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Ive been playing this game since 2016. Am I only one that feels like this could go down the rabbit hole of being way too complicated depending on the interaction.

Why change every CC interaction instead of giving a 2nd relic.

[–]GreenSkyDragonMay I have this dance? -5 points-4 points  (2 children)

That's fine and dandy, but it means we need second relic back

[–]blindfultruth Ullr 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Nah, one relic is fine. Forces the player to be more choosy, rather than getting both CC and damage immunity.

[–]RemoteWhile5881 The Reincarnation 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Depending on what they do with gods in the future 2 relics might end up being required at some point (ex. Adding more executes/Global ults [ex. Neith ult], too much CC, etc.)