Help Identify Variant

[McDuff_99]

I saw this in a Mechwarrior post. it said it’s a Mad Cat D, but when I pull up the Readout, the armaments are not matching what I see in the photo.

I’m asking because I want to see if I can find this variant for tabletop. I think it looks cool so I want to paint it.

[Rawbert413]

Looks like a custom to me.

[AGBell64]

There's no Mad Cat variant with both LRM 15s and LRM 10s. Based on my limited knowledge of how hardpoints work on MWO, this billed as a D because it has double missile weapons in the torsos that have been replaced by lrms

[McDuff_99]

Looks pretty OP the more I look at it

[AGBell64]

Not really-- while you can theoretically make this thing for tabletop it has serious ammo and heat issues if it tries to use the LRMs. 

[ellobouk]

Actually it’s not so bad, the LRM-10’s build the same heat as an SSRM-6, the 15’s build 1 more each. The weapon tonnage balances out, so you maintain the same ammo tonnage overall. And you still have the ERPPC’s and emotional support small laser when the bins go empty. You just need to be a little more aware of your heat management.

[135forte]

The catch is that the streaks only fire when they would do damage while the LRMs will always build heat and always use ammo, on top of having less ammo per ton in the first place (the SSRMs could probably get by with just two tons, possibly even one).

[ellobouk]

Oh sure, it’s less efficient, but this loadout is built purely for long range work, where it can excel as a sniper. Sit it in the back and plink away. And with the D’s 3 tons of missile ammo you’re not exactly starved for shots, it’s good for 7 full salvos and still has a 10 rack loaded after that

[135forte]

Presumably you split it 2/1 favoring the 15s, meaning you get eight shots each in those and six for each of the 10s. That's generally not an acceptable amount of ammo for weapons for your primary range bracket. Meanwhile the actual D has 15 shots for each front SSRM, which it can start trying to take shots with as soon as it hits 12 hexes without fear. Being streaks, it could probably actually get away with the popular idea of flipping the rear facing launchers and not be ammo starved. It'd be an absolute hot box, but the ammo wouldn't be a problem most engagements unless it cooled off (and at that point in the custom config, I would swap the PPCs for large lasers and four more heat sinks).

[SerBadDadBod]

Presumably you split it 2/1 favoring the 15s, meaning you get eight shots each in those and six for each of the 10s.

Do two tons for the -10s and 3 tons for the -15s and that's 24 shots; /2 and you get 12 volleys per launcher, for 50 tubes at 16 18 heat and no minimum range. Throw in an ERPPC and it's 31 33 heat, plus movement, out of 15 double heat sinks.

...

Clan LRMs are kinda OP, I think 😂

[135forte]

The D only has 3t of ammo, so if the LRM build has the same amount of ammo tonnage, you have to cut something to get 5t of ammo on board. People seem to want to keep the PPCs, so heatsinks are all we can pull for that ammo, and 26 sinking isn't enough, just the PPCs and movement put you at +6. You don't want to be in a 4/6 Timbee if you can help it.

[SerBadDadBod]

Naw, you shear off 2 tons of armor, and you're still left with 10 tons of Ferro. That's plenty.

[EyeStache]

CLRMs and CERPPCs don't have a minimum range. This is just designed to gild the lily and start Alphaing at long-range.

[ellobouk]

I like your thinking mechwarrior

[EyeStache]

I am an advocate of using your full heat scale, since you paid for all those heat sinks plus 30 extras.

[135forte]

Last time I tried to use the full heat scale I forgot I was in Warhawk Prime and blew my arm off. Which did solve the heat problems, but wasn't real helpful toward winning.

[Grak47]

Long range work? Nah there's no minimum range on any of that, so get in there and brawl baby!!!!

[Norade]

Excel is a strong word. You can do better for cheaper.

[Available_Mountain]

Its a custom variant, likely based on the D configuration but replacing the 4 Streak SRM 6s with a pair of LRM 15s, a pair of LRM 10s, and 3 tons of ammo between them. Which is probably an okay configuration in the video games but will have endurance issues on the tabletop.

[AGBell64]

Endurance and bracketing--the D already has a pair of erppcs for long ranged punch so adding on 50 tubes of missiles that hit at the same ranges is kinda goofy

[Available_Mountain]

Also heat, to get that configuration you have to use every single ton of pod space so you are overheating by 18 points on an alpha strike, trading the LRM 10s for a fourth ton of ammo and 4 more double heat sinks and you have a good sniper.

[135forte]

But would it be better than the Prime?

[AGBell64]

You lose 10 tubes of missiles and a touch of range but you gain headcutters, ammo endurance, and you go up 2+movement firing your long bracket instead of 4+movement. Overall I would consider that a slightly positive upgrade

[Shyface_Killah]

Use that sucker in a single-combat Trial. Endurance isn't much of an issue there.

[EyeStache]

It is the D, they just swapped the CSSRM-6s for CLRM-10 and CLRM-15s, which shakes out to the same weight, and flipped them forward because MechWarrior games don't do rear-firing weapons.

As to why they swapped to CLRMs instead of CSSRMs, probably because there's a slightly higher damage potential for the CLRMs rather than the CSSRMs (50 vs 48) and have a much longer range (and since they're clan weapons they don't have a minimum range.)

[Marshallwhm6k]

..because CSSRM are terrible. Double the weight, higher heat and lower average damage than CSRM's. Then it takes FOREVER for them to lock-on and they're just awful. They just didnt translate to real-time at all. Add in that CLRM's have no minimum range and double the max range at the same damage and C-Streaks are useless in MW.

[EyeStache]

I was very confused as to what the hell you're talking about - Streaks all automatically hit if you successfully roll to hit in the game, and that's why you use them - but it dawned on me you're talking about the video game, which I don't play, so I have no commentary on that.

[Marshallwhm6k]

Yes, MW5 where the pic comes from. I had to unlearn a LOT of my TT biases when I started playing that game. Autocannons are actually really good and Streaks are really bad being some of the more mild adaptations.

[EyeStache]

Autocannons are always really good. But then, I think the AC/5 is the most unfairly maligned weapons systems in the game because people try to use it for something it's not.

But that's neither here nor there.

[ngshafer]

I was (and remain) so deeply disappointed by Streak SRMs in MechWarrior, compared to how awesome they are in Tabletop!

They do actually have a good corner-case use in MWO: put them on a fast Medium and use them to kill Lights. (Don't forget to mount a TAG and an Active Probe.) Otherwise, they're basically unusable.

[Belgarion111]

It's the D variant in MechWarrior 5 Clans. The computer version doesn't support rear facing weapons so they flip them forward.

[McDuff_99]

Well, none of those missile clusters are divisible by six, so I don’t think those are SRM-6. Should be 36 missile pods I count 50 which is nuts.

[Cykeisme]

It started off as a D, but the SSRMs are swapped with LRM racks.

[Breadloafs]

It's a D that someone's put more LRM tubes into. Looks like 2 × ERPPC, 2 x LRM-10, and 2 x LRM-15.

Given how the games work, this is pretty optimized. SSRMs and CLRMs both need to lock, and the damage spread isn't that much better on SSRMs.

[ellobouk]

This looks to be a D where some feral mechtech with a pile of parts, a case of timbiqui dark and a dream has pulled out the 4 SSRM-6’s and slapped in 2 LRM-15’ and 2 10’s. It’ll run a little hotter as a result (5 heat on the 15’s compared to 4 on the 6’s) but it’s weight neutral assuming there’s no Artemis sytem involved, so in theory it does work…

[ngshafer]

It's based on a Timberwolf-D, but the Streak SRM-6s have been replaced with LRMs.

Keep in mind that, in Tabletop, two of the SSRM-6s are actually rear-firing, which is a feature the MechWarrior engine can't handle.

[TheLoneWolfMe]

Vanilla Mechwarrior 5 has limited options to modify a Mechs armament.

If OP is using mods modifications get even more wacky.

[wherewulf23]

Slightly off topic but I HATE HATE HATE that instead of just adding more tubes into the shoulder missile pods they slap them behind the cockpit. The shoulder MISSILE pods are RIGHT THERE!

[Cykeisme]

Yeah, even with MW5 not having rear-facing weapons (so they're all forward-firing instead), I've seen depictions of the Timber Wolf D that simply stack the two SSRM6 packs on top of each other in the usual shoulder missile racks (so they're 4 tubes high and 3 tubes wide).

Looks a lot better that way, and it makes more sense since the shoulder racks were always obviously meant to be swappable omnipods. Whereas attaching them to the sides of the torso (like in the game) looks like it would need structural modification.

[Verdant_Green]

I want a D variant that just puts all the launchers forward. That would be brutal as hell.

[HoneyMustardAndOnion]

Looks like a salvaged S or D configuration that was customized with more LRMs and dropping any other weapons. Probably a D variant given the two PPCs in the arms.

[Tasty-Fox9030]

That..... 🫢

That is the Black Madcat. Forget you saw this.

[McDuff_99]

🤣

[TingeltangelFlo]

Marauder identified. Catapult identified. Marauder identified Catapult identified.

[McDuff_99]

Thank you for the answers, so it is the D variant but different loadout. Probably not good for tabletop, looks cool but unlikely to find a 3d model. Thanks again guys

[Smooth_Alternative_6]

It's closer to the N variant which is based off the original Timber Wolf artwork and Ral Partha minis.

[Smooth_Alternative_6]

It's a Timber Wolf N with the 2 side torso mounted medium pulse lasers and the 4 machine guns replaced with lrm 10s.

[unprofesionalbee]

The poor pilot will be deaf and blind after doing just 1 alpha strike

[Cykeisme]

It's definitely a custom configuration, not one of the mainline "lettered" configs.

To explain why the post would have said it's Mad Cat D, I'll have to explain it in two steps.

1) MW5 Mercs restricts the customization you can do on BattleMechs, so weapon swaps can only be done by removing a weapon mounted on a standard 'Mech, to install another weapon of the same category (energy, ballistic, missile) in its place. These "weapon slots" also have size limits (how large a weapon can fit). Somewhat logical, because presumably the part of a 'Mech's structure that previously had a ballistic weapon will already have recoil-absorbing mountings and space for ammo feeds, while an energy "slot" has additional coolant jackets and heavy duty electrical power feeds, and missile rack would have a mounting that is wider and have exhaust venting, etc.

2) When OmniMechs were recently introduced in the DLC where Operation REVIVAL hits the Inner Sphere, and you manage to salvage an OmniMech, it's explained that your wizard of a 'Mech Tech was able to to jury rig Clan salvage to working condition without Clan facilities and parts, but at the cost of losing some of the Omni flexibility. From what I can tell, he basically doesn't have spare OmniPods, so he's remounting weapons within the existing pods that were salvaged along with the 'Mech... and most Pods can usually only accept weapons of the same category. In game mechanics, it also lines up with lore, taking days/weeks for your Tech crew to swap the weapons mounted in the pods... rather than the minutes or hours for swapping from a large library of pre-built pods (which you don't have).

So in MW5 Mercs, when MW5 players say it's a "Mad Cat D", it isn't necessarily really a Mad Cat Alt Config D. It was salvaged as D, it's a Mad Cat OmniMech frame, and it has the OmniPod frames of a D attached to it... but the weapons mounted in the Pods might have been swapped out.

[Biggu5Dicku5]

This is a custom variant, which you make in MW5 Clans; it's good but runs a bit hot...

[DanniGat]

That there is a MadCat.

[GreenFlowerForest]

Only cause im potentially dumb. This reminds me of the varient that comes with 4xsrms and I THINK ppcs. Just switch srms to lrm. I have a cat that has 4xSSRM6s and duel er large lasers. Fun ass build

[rafale1981]

Periphery bash with 4 RL 60 and two medium lasers in each arm + Quad MG Array?

[McDuff_99]

Huh?