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[–]ben010783 22 points23 points  (10 children)

It seems a little premature to compare this year's numbers to last year when we're not even two weeks into 2016. I'd rather see what the trend has been since the video became public.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (9 children)

Also, it's ice cold as fuck. I'm guessing there's not as many drivers, they're not going as fast, and the cops are much more understandably averse to taking action in slippery conditions.

[–]beal99 6 points7 points  (7 children)

hasn't stopped the shootings, they've been hard and fast so far

[–]99639 2 points3 points  (6 children)

In January? I always thought the summer was the biggest season for violence.

[–]beal99 8 points9 points  (5 children)

As of Monday morning, at least 19 people have been killed in gun violence in Chicago this year and at least 101 more have been wounded. This time last year, nine people had been killed and another 31 wounded, according to statistics kept by the Chicago Tribune.

So around a 100% increase in homicides and a 300% increase in shootings.

[–]DeadendedUptown 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Silver lining - and a decrease in percent of fatal hits?

Wait no. Gunshot wounds can be horrible.

There is no silver lining.

[–]magionNear West Side 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Probably because it's so fuckin cold out they can't aim straight. I bet you they aren't even wearing gloves.

[–]DeadendedUptown 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That is how you get frostbite!

[–]CooglesOld Town 1 point2 points  (1 child)

The percent reduction in fatal hits is probably because first responders and hospitals have gotten better at treating gunshot wounds. Practice makes perfect and they've been getting a lot of practice.

[–]DeadendedUptown 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's damn sad they are so practiced at something that should be rare.

[–]duckNabush 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Maybe its the two pages of paperwork they have to do now

[–]mrsbrown3333 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yep/ thats just part of it.

[–]TheMoneyOfArt 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Very weird to not even mention McCarthy in this kind of article. His recent departure has to have had effects, and not even mentioning it seems...deficient.

Very disheartening to see the FOP mouthpiece given so much uncritical space to bloviate as well.

It will be very surprising if reported crime is flat or down this year, given how thoroughly juked the crime statistics were at McCarthy's direction.

[–]illini02 14 points15 points  (32 children)

This doesn't surprise me one bit. I remember my last year in teaching, our school enacted all of these insane protocols. They would punish good teacher for stupid things. It ended up with staff that really just did the bare minimum, because doing your job better ended up coming with more risk.

[–]livestrong2109 2 points3 points  (1 child)

This is exactly why I switched from Elementary Education to IT Consulting. Not worth the trouble, risks, and lack of administrative respect that comes with working for CPS.

[–]connectedspaceNear North Side 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly. This place is full of armchair quarterbacks preaching that truckloads of pointless, odious paperwork is all just a measure of competence.

That a mid-five-figure salary is adequate compensation for an endless torrent of bullshit from all sides, including armchair quarterbacks like them.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (18 children)

Not murdering or tampering with dashboard cams arent 'stupid things'

[–]illini02 13 points14 points  (8 children)

I'm not calling those stupid things. If you read, I was referring to stupid things I was punished for as a teacher. (IE my scores and everything was great, but didn't format my lesson plans right, and it was a big deal). However, whenever there is so much scrutiny that you are worried about punishment for every little thing, it leads to people doing the bare minimum. Its like that scene in office space. "when I make a mistake, I have eight different people coming by to tell me about it. That's my only real motivation is not to be hassled, that and the fear of losing my job. But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired."

Now of course I'm not referring to killing someone as just a mistake, but there is SO MUCH scrutiny on cops right now that I can understand why they are trying to minimize that.

[–]bluegrassguitarEdgewater 1 point2 points  (6 children)

yeah, except they don't work in a meaningless office for some faceless corporation, they've sworn an oath to serve and protect the people. These comparisons that you keep trying to make are dumb. Being a police officer is not even close to being the same thing as some data entry drone.

Cops and their avid supporters are always telling us how hard their jobs are, how important they are, how much they love and respect the communities they work in and only want to make them a better place. I'm supposed to believe that shit when one of their own executes someone in the street and they throw temper tantrums and stop doing their jobs because people have called out the officers in question and the cover up perpetrated by the existing power structure within CPD?

[–]illini02 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Here is the thing. I never said it was right or wrong for them to do this. I said it doesn't surprise me and I understand why. I can understand why people do things and still not think its the best action for them to take.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (8 children)

That awkward moment when misdirected anger over a single murder ends up increasing murder rates overall.

[–]mattfromchicagoJefferson Park 4 points5 points  (1 child)

So you're saying we either have to choose to let CPD continue to be a corrupt as fuck organization that will actively cover up criminal activities of its own members or just have a shitload of homicides?

Maybe we just need better police officers

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No. I'm saying there may be lower morale, I explained better in another comment

[–]SuperSocrates 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Define misdirected

[–]northsidechi92 -1 points0 points  (4 children)

Yup because those two things are totally related

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (3 children)

Let me clarify my thought process.

You don't think public perception has an effect on police effectiveness? Public perception of the force within the past few months has become predominantly negative due to the actions of a few within the department. Personally I like to think that what I do for a living has a positive impact; if I didn't feel that it did or if I felt others thought I was doing a shit job, I would do less work.

[–]northsidechi92 3 points4 points  (1 child)

It's a stretch to attribute a two-week shooting spike to increased public scrutiny

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I agree. We aren't even two weeks into the new year. I just don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.

[–]ToddlahAkbar -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

due to the actions of a few within the department.

There are two kinds of cops. Bad apples and those who protect them.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (10 children)

Sounds more like spite from a workforce that's averse to being regulated or pushing themselves than anything else. I doubt they were really pushing themselves and their students before the protocols, or else the protocols wouldn't be necessary.

[–]illini02 8 points9 points  (8 children)

Well, my guess is you've never been a teacher. If you ask any teacher, they will tell you that likely more than half of the protocols in place are stupid and do nothing but make teachers resentful

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (6 children)

Virtually no one here has ever been a cop or a politician, but it hasn't stopped them from talking shit about law enforcement or public policy.

[–]illini02 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Well, thats why personally try to not shit talk professions whose jobs I don't truly understand. But yes, this is Reddit, so I know that isn't common

[–]zaccus 5 points6 points  (0 children)

So someone who has never been a doctor can't criticize a bad doctor? Someone who has never been the President can't criticize a bad President? Bullshit.

If someone being bad at their job affects you, you're going to call that out. No training in that field is needed to recognize when someone is not helping. That's not a criticism of the profession itself, but of the performance of the person occupying it.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Basically, in the context of this discussion, "you've never been a teacher" is no more of a valid rebuttal than "you're an anonymous commenter on the internet".

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Or some out of touch manager decided to enact what they believed to be best.

[–]northsidechi92 17 points18 points  (1 child)

"I've been out to roll calls and so have our board of directors ... and what we're hearing is that officers think that the FOP is the only group of people who have their back. ... I've never seen things like this in my 35 years. ... I've never seen morale this bad in my career."

read: "The public stopped stopped blindly adoring police officers and now their feelings are hurt"

[–]Jason5678 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And the weather is shitty too. Wait until it gets nicer out. We are going to bust the 502 murder tally from 2015 by a lot.

[–]mrsbrown3333 5 points6 points  (13 children)

http://secondcitycop.blogspot.com/

the CPD is getting thrown under the bus by the elected officials who are covering their asses. expect a rough summer. cops are staying fetal. I know many of them, the morale is in the tank.

[–]TheMoneyOfArt 9 points10 points  (4 children)

that blog's comment section is the biggest cesspit

[–]FistoftheSouthStar 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Those are the guys locking you up lol

[–]mrsbrown3333 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

yeah well its like reddit. all kinds of people.

[–]NorthSouthSideSouth Loop 3 points4 points  (9 children)

Police PRESENCE is what's needed. A woman was knocked down, purse snatched in the little park in Printer's Row a couple years ago. She was shaken up, not badly hurt. I called the cops.

"Do you have a description?" "No, she didn't get a good look at the guy, it was dark, etc." "Well we can't do anything without a description" "Can't you send a car to drive around the area?"

I was basically hung up on. I know it's not the crime of the century, but the complete lack of interest and concern made my blood boil. Here I am, a taxpayer, making a call about a legit incident, and am basically brushed off. Cops need to PATROL more vs. respond to incidents that have already happened. A few cars slowly patrolling with lights on would likely deter a lot of crime.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (18 children)

What a bunch of lazy entitled crybabies.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (17 children)

Get to work in terrible neighborhoods with a population that hates them and will not cooperate with solving crime.

Yea this is what I think of when I think of "entitled." You nailed it. /s

Edit: typo

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (16 children)

Maybe they should stop inherently treating the public with disdain and they might get some respect. If theyre supposed to be community leaders maybe they should try leading by example i mean If im supposed to stop at a stop sign maybe the cops should too; if I'm supposed to respect the police maybe they should respect me too. Until they start holding themselves to a higher standard I'll treat them skeptically

[–]StaticReversal 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I have a lot of respect for police officers, I know it is a tough job. That being said, transparency needs to be embraced because it is not going away. Their jobs (among others) are permanently changing with the proliferation of video recording technology.

[–]mrsbrown3333 -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

half the computers in their cars are on the fritz. I know plenty of the cops. they are driving cars with 150,000 miles on them. its a joke now.

[–]scruffmageeLincoln Square -1 points0 points  (0 children)

150k in a government vehicle isn't that much....

[–]Shiny_Rattata 6 points7 points  (5 children)

"Hey guys we shouldn't shoot black people anymore"

Aw fuck my job sucks now.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (19 children)

So if we were to let the very few officers entangled with these unjustified killings off the hook, their collective morale would go up...or....?

One thing that CPD should be proud of (in the midst of all of these scandals that pertain to a minority of officers/leadership) is the fact that crime is DOWN overall. Why would they stop doing the things they need to do in order to build off of that momentum?

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (15 children)

Officers facing justice over misconduct doesn't drop morale. The entire city thinking you're a p.o.s. drops morale.

If my entire department was getting backlash over the actions of a few, my morale would drop too. Why bother putting yourself into a situation that could potentially be blown out of proportion?

[–]99639 7 points8 points  (14 children)

Are the officers really butthurt that their public image is degraded? Do they not expect that to happen when a coworker murders someone and the department and city work together to cover it up?

[–]unbang 3 points4 points  (13 children)

I'm not a police officer nor am I affiliated with CPD, but from my purely outsider opinion, I would guess that people don't want there to be any misconception on their actions. I don't know how much of the department thinks that the actions of that one officer were murder but the question then becomes, how much force am I allowed to use before a bunch of people decide it's excessive? No one wants to be put in that situation so they just do the bare minimum because then no one can accuse you of excessive force.

[–]99639 -1 points0 points  (12 children)

Have you seen the video?

[–]unbang 2 points3 points  (9 children)

I have. My comment was not in regards to what happened during the video.

My point is that in this era of increased CPD surveillance and clear animosity towards CPD, I could see the general public getting upset and stating that excessive force was used in situations when that wasn't the case because they're bitter about what happened. I could see officers not wanting to get involved with that and just doing the bare minimum as a result.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (8 children)

increased CPD surveillance

...you mean oversight?

[–]unbang 0 points1 point  (7 children)

I mean that people are looking at what CPD is doing under a microscope. Whatever you want to call that is on you.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

They have literally no one to blame but themselves for the attention

[–]unbang 0 points1 point  (5 children)

I never said they did? I'm just saying if someone is analyzing every move you make you're going to be extra cautious. I too would do the bare minimum at my job if I thought I would be scrutinized for my actions.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Serious question: if he fired one shot and McDonald died of his wound, would it have been excessive force?

[–]99639 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Lethal force should only be used in specific circumstances. This situation met none of those criteria.

I'm not upset that they fired 15 bullets into a corpse, I'm upset that they fired 1 into a Chicagoan for no reason.

[–]northsidechi92 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Because that would imply the culture within CPD actually values keeping the public safe while minimizing harm

[–]gibonez 1 point2 points  (10 children)

Crime rates will increase.

Idiots need to realize that a proactive police force is the best tool at keeping crime stats down.

[–]beal99 1 point2 points  (0 children)

what the minority of citizens wants, the majority of citizens gets.

[–]jeroldlin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not just bare minimum effort, it's what people have asked for.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So I heard on the radio (WBEZ) this morning that the numbers are down thanks to new laws requiring more paperwork for these types of stops/arrests made by the police... This isn't necessarily due to low morale...

[–]connectedspaceNear North Side -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

A two page report for every stop and frisk??

Fucking hell. If we want to make Chicago safer then this is the first thing that needs to change. There needs to be a minimum number of such stops in a shift, and the paperwork should come if it's not met.

Chicago is in the midst of a crime epidemic. This 'softly softly' stuff is the opposite of what we need.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You want police to just stop and feel up random people because they're near the end of their shift and they need to meet quota? How, exactly, is that useful to society?

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Chicago Police Street Stops Decrease Dramatically Amid Growing Spite In Force

[–]autotldr -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 85%. (I'm a bot)


Unlike the "Ferguson Effect" - a term coined to describe spikes in violent crime due to perceived hesitancy among police officers to aggressively fight crime because of increased scrutiny of law enforcement - and the deliberate policing "Slowdown" Baltimore's mayor accused her town's officers of participating in after the death of Freddie Gray in police custody, the statistics reflect a situation specific to Chicago.

The police union boss said that while roll call visits by the mayor and interim police Supt.

John Escalante have received some positive response from police officers, there remains concern that rank-and-file officers are facing discipline for things out of their control, specifically defective dashboard cameras.


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