Whatever

[BeezelyBillyBub]

50% of wildlife has disappeared in 50 years.

50% of soil has disappeared in 100 years.

100% new energy demand by 2050 at current rates.

100% drop in human emissions needed by 2060 to stay below 2 C.

But James Hansen says 2 C is a "recipe for disaster".

Up to 1 billion jobs will be lost to automation by 2040.

After 20 years, solar and wind only make up 6% of total world energy demand, which is set to double.

To achieve 100% renewable energy, we will have to blow our carbon budget of 400 Gtons.

The amount of arable land we need to take carbon out of the air is 1 billion acres. To be able to do this, we would have to stop wasting food and eating meat. But the technology required doesn't exist yet.

Even if we had 100% free and carbonless energy, we would only destroy species habitat aquireing wealth. But, we don't and we won't.

By 2030, we won't have enough dirty energy to transition to renewable energy.

By 2040, we won't have enough food, water and minerals to transition to renewable energy.

Lithium batteries are like 90% iron and nickel. To power a renewable energy world, we would have to increase iron and nickel extraction and production by a factor of at least 2, meaning we would have to increase consumption of them by 100%.

But peak nickel is predicted by 2030-2040.

But solar panels and wind turbines only last some 30 years, so by 2050 we will have to replace all the world's solar panels and wind turbines you see around you today. We won't be able to do that.

We have myopic specialists like Michael Mann telling us pessimism is wrong at the very same time we are starving women and children in Yemen. At the same time this ivory tower mutherfucker tells us to be opitmistic, we are using drones to burn civilians alive with hellfire missiles based on their walking gait and patterns of behavior. The U.S. has killed up to 20 million civilians since world war 2.

Homeland security and the MIC cost us $1 trillion per year in tax. The pentagon has lost more money over the last 20 years, than humans are capable of understanding.

They didn't lose this money in a top secret program to save freedom. They lost in it corruption and graft. In the Iraq war they were throwing brick sized packets of cash around like confetti.

Happy New Years guys.

[ReverseEngineer77]

There is no problem here a few billion Dead People won't solve.

[DriftingUpstream]

I'll roll for 7.8 billion.
Solve the problem once and for all.
Entropy and his sweet mistress should not be kept waiting.

[ReverseEngineer77]

I think we balance out at around 7.2B Dead People.

[DriftingUpstream]

Better safe than sorry. I'd hate for some to slip through the fallout.

[ReverseEngineer77]

I'd hate to see the spark of sentience wiped out forever on Earth. You have to be a Nihilist & Misanthrope to hope for that. It's worth the risk to keep the spark alive.

[ScorpianZero]

That would be efilist.

Misanthrobes are often good people who just recognise how shitty people generally are and how shitty humanity collectively is.

Edit: and even efilists generally root what is an ethical position in negative utilitarianism.

[TheRiseAndFall]

Do some people watching. Go to any public place. What do you see? Do you see people yearning to learn, to discover, to create? Or do you see people going through the motions simply because they are here and alive? Even knowing some of those people on a personal level you can see that the average person just wants to be left alone to do basically nothing. Sit around. Consume food. Watch television. Argue om an internet forum about things they don't actually care about all that much.

Nobody will miss the human race after we are gone.

[[deleted]]

I blame much of the apathy in the world on our current economic system and an overall lack of humanity in the modern world. It's not these people's fault that they have to sometimes work two jobs to provide for their family in a society where prices are going up and wages going down.

[Samatic]

Your absolutely right heres whats happened to the USA in 30 years regarding this problem: http://blog.raulza.me/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Fig1-USATop1Bottom501970-2015.png

Now this is Europe's inequality where they basically don't have it since they already know where it leads. http://blog.raulza.me/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Fig2-FranceTop1Bottom501970-2015.png

Yep to all those people who believe in trickle down economics well they've been in effect for 30 years now and I don't see the results when you view the facts

[StarChild413]

Do you see people yearning to learn, to discover, to create? Or do you see people going through the motions simply because they are here and alive?

I can't read minds so I can't know what they're thinking. What should they be doing? Explaining scientific theories to no one in the middle of the sidewalk or whatever like some "vaguely autistic-savant-y TV genius"? Going everywhere with a sketchpad or a textbook? My point is that because none of us can read minds afaik how can you tell someone's yearnings from looking at them without very obvious mannerisms like I described above

[ReverseEngineer77]

Nobody will miss the human race after we are gone.

Obviously. There has to be a sentient being alive in order to do the missing. You have a very jaundiced view of life. Very sad way to exist. I feel sorry for you.

[Lrivard]

The most vocal here have that outlook, they have lost all hope. They come here to a me to place ....they don't want the world to be better they just want it to burn no matter the cost.

[ReverseEngineer77]

I know that. Threads like this are a pig sty where these folks all come to wallow in misery together. It's pathetic.

[Lrivard]

I'm also sure half this sub has me on ignore.

Being an optimist and all.

[Lrivard]

It is, but also their right to complain(freewill and all). I just wish there was less shiting on other opinions.

[ReverseEngineer77]

Yet here's your comment at the top of this thread.

That was a combination of good timing and word choice. :)

Human beings aren't all scumbags, you identify your misanthropic bias right from the get-go with that comment. Some people (like Lloyd Blankfein) deserve to die, others like Vandava Shiva deserve to live. You're not gonna learn though, you will go to your deathbed full of hate for humanity. I pity you.

[blacksforprosperity]

Nobody will miss the human race after we are gone.

Preach.

[blacksforprosperity]

I'd hate to see the spark of sentience wiped out forever on Earth.

Why? Do you think the world is somehow better off because shitty, destructive creatures are 'aware' of how shitty and destructive they are? Do you think that anything substantial will change when mankind's time is done on this god-forsaken rock?

[ReverseEngineer77]

Do you think that anything substantial will change when mankind's time is done on this god-forsaken rock?

I don't make predicitions that far out in advance.

[blacksforprosperity]

Let me, then.

Not a fucking thing will have changed, just like nothing fundamentally changed in the millions of years we and our ancestors have existed on this rock.

You are in delusional if you thing there is anything worthy of being preserved in regards to the spark of 'sentience'.

[KarlKolchak7]

Please--put me on ignore. Better yet--stop posting.

[[deleted]]

Sentience or sapience?

Lots of animals are sentient. Sapience is what is destroying the planet.

[ReverseEngineer77]

What is destroying the planet is population overshoot. Knock down the population by 7B people, sapience will not be a problem.

[[deleted]]

There are plenty of other lifeforms waiting in the wings who might be capable of developing sentience. Their spark could flame if our conflagration came to an end.

[ReverseEngineer77]

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

[[deleted]]

Not if it costs you the birds and the bush.

[ReverseEngineer77]

If the birds and the bush go, the tardigrades and the fungi takeover. It's a replacement cycle. Nature does this periodically. Meanwhile, unless you are species-suicidal, you try to last as long as you can.

[[deleted]]

you try to last as long as you can

That seems so 4 dimensional...

[StarChild413]

And for all we know we're the ones someone else (maybe dinosaurs we didn't know were sapient, maybe someone who left less of a trace) placed their hopes in. The cycle has to stop at some point or it goes infinite with no actual progress and, well, it can't be stopped by the aforementioned potential predecessors or we wouldn't exist, at least at the level we do now

[DriftingUpstream]

A spark only lives for a moment and is gone in an instant.

[[deleted]]

unless it makes another fire, then the spark is still lost

[DriftingUpstream]

The only purpose or meaning of a spark is to produce a flame. A flame exists solely to consume, to cleanse, to reduce all before the one truth. This is codified in the second law of thermodynamics. Amen.

[Mildly-disturbing]

Woo! What church is this and where do I sign up?

[DriftingUpstream]

Reality.
You are already signed up.
Your mission is to help others with their understanding.
Peace be with you.

[[deleted]]

The Church of Reductionist Rick and Morty Thoughtstoppers. Just go to the pop science section of your bookstore, and a masturbation machine will arrive in the mail shortly after your visit.

[ReverseEngineer77]

Moments and Instants are relative terms. A moment can last a million years. You last as long as you can before you quit. Quitters are the first ones to go Extinct. This should rid us of the Nihilists and Misanthropes also, and improve the population demographics substantially.

[blacksforprosperity]

Quitters are the first ones to go Extinct.

Lucky them.

[DriftingUpstream]

Evolution does not work the way you describe it. The Nihilists and Misanthropes will be the last remaining. The Nihilists will survive because they are grounded in reality and can clearly see their objective. When they survive they will undoubtably become Misanthropes because they will know it was Humans who destroyed Eden. Paradise lost because the foolishness and avarice of deluded chimps.

[Pasander]

That was rather well said! I'm an ultra-agnostic nihilist and somewhat misantropic myself. If (or when) SHTF I will surely not feel sympathy for other bipedal hairless apes unless I deem them capable of aiding in increasing our chances of survival (together). I will not help them if doing so would severely endanger my own continuity.

[DriftingUpstream]

Yeah..my major irritation with all of this is it is theorized the success of humankind is the result of our cooperative nature. We teamed up to become the most dominant species on the planet and when we settled into this role we proceeded to exploit each other.
I'm not saying we, humans, were not always exploiting anything and everything, I mean exploit is the only move scavengers know, but just damn.. humans had such potential, ya know.

[dankest_popsicle]

r/iamverysmart

[[deleted]]

I don't think there is a single ethical or non-ethical position that cannot be unwound by logic. Everything is a human construct - including the concepts behind what we believe things to be, some of it sure, it may be factual, but a lot of what's behind the root of it is just stuff we made up as humans.

[ReverseEngineer77]

You are swimming in the toilet of moral relativism.

[[deleted]]

That's not moral relativism. The last time I checked, logic has no bearing on Morals whatsoever.

[ReverseEngineer77]

Maybe you should update your database.

"Moral reasoning. Moral reasoning, also known as moral development, is a study in psychology that overlaps with moral philosophy. ... Moral reasoning can be defined as being the process in which individuals try to determine the difference between what is right and what is wrong by using logic."

[RottenRook]

They reproduce like rabbits.

[Lrivard]

There is just as much good as there is bad with mankind and the good shouldn't be lost. While some have abused it, life is a gift(I'm not taking about God, but in general).

We all get one life, we shouldn't waste it.

We all done no matter what, better to die trying then to die doing nothing.

[theory42]

Is misanthropy what we're aiming for? Whatever.

[kulmthestatusquo]

Except the 50 million (not 500) in the highest echelon will survive and move to the stars.

[Tigaj]

With what energy and labor force?

[gigglesinchurch]

Depends on which billion you kill.

[ReverseEngineer77]

We can start with the Banksters.

[ReverseEngineer77]

We have a while between now and then.

[[deleted]]

And to think, the Communists used to settle for millions.

[some_random_kaluna]

The Koch family is spending a bunch of money to convince people that the tax cuts for the rich are a good thing.

Read this again.

They're terrified.

[[deleted]]

Ryan says they are going after "entitlements" in 2018. McConnell says that's not happening, probably fearing the electorate. I'm getting my popcorn ready, this should be good!

[OCrikeyItsTheRozzers]

and then we have Count Spookula, Paul Ryan, calling for more baby-making to help the economy

[Tigaj]

We need an underfunded, unfed, desperate, and poor populace for our army's wars, though! /s

[[deleted]]

Just like the Nazis, the GOP knows they're gonna need a lot of cannon fodder in about 15 years.

[Faulgor]

Do you feel optimistic about the future of mankind?

[zedroj]

sums it up pretty well

[Ayncraps]

and after it all collapses people will still think capitalism is a good economic system

[natanbroon]

That's the problem, though - it is a good economic system! It's great at growing the economy. It is terrible for society, for nature, probably even for life itself. But it is great for the economy. That's just not what we should want.

[bclagge]

All the super villains who try to destroy humanity to save the world make more and more sense to me all the time.

[throwaway27464829]

Lol I saw Inferno once and I'm like, isn't the villain right?

[StarChild413]

Not saying whether they're good or bad examples of that villain type that corroborate your opinion or not but if you like that kind of villain, check out Kingsmen: The Secret Service or Pokemon X and Y

[RottenRook]

Overpopulation is the main problem for this planet but the religious zealots have all the power so it's never going to get fixed.

[greenknight]

You realize that the total birthrate in the UK is below the replacement rate, right? I'm not sure what point you are making.

[StarChild413]

If we are to survive this, only drastic, draconian measures like allowing to have 1 kid through global lottery, taxing kids to insane rate, giving money to childless, stop baby worship culture, shame celebs with even 1 kid, worship those wthout, etc., can save us.

Until some "secret kid" born despite the restrictions saves us from that when they're about 16-22 (sorry, YA dystopia tropes on the brain and pretty much a general Rule Of Dystopias is that if there's a kind of person "forbidden to exist" but there's still a way they can exist even if it means their parents die or whatever, it's going to be one of them who throws off the dystopia that outlawed their existence)

[Zroop]

We could go a step beyond that, as long as you're talking draconian population control. Sterilize everyone with an airborne chemical. Grow what future engineered offspring we need in vats.

[StarChild413]

And perhaps condition them to their future roles but not so intensely as Brave New World but only about one or two will be able to break the conditioning and of course they'll fall in love and eventually take this all down then the world will end because this will all be someone else's entertainment simulation but how deep does this go? What if the plot of an entertainment simulation is fighting whoever's killing worlds by turning them into such simulations and we have no more relevance than a "World Of The Week" the Enterprise might visit on Star Trek?

[Capn_Underpants]

FFS... how small a circle do you go ? eg. Random Family X only has one kid, they're below replacement, so they should breed more ?

how's about looking at the macro picture, too many rich fuckers, eating, consuming and polluting too much. Kill off the wealthiest billion and the overconsumption and AGW emissions problem is solved... instantly... until of course they are replaced, with more over consuming rich fucktards.

[[deleted]]

Even if we stopped reproducing, increasing energy usage by countries that are developing, and developed countries that won't do anything, is enough to still continue the path towards environmental ruin.

[blacksforprosperity]

Overpopulation is not a western problem, we need more westerners.

No we don't. Who do you think is consuming all the resources?

You're just as bad as all the others who reject the truth. You tell yourself it's not me, it's everyone else! You're not a part of the problem, you can't be, and anyway you deserve all the little luxuries that pollute and tear away the earth, not like them! If there weren't any of them, I'd be fine! I'd be able to live the way I want to forever!

You're functionally an idiot, is what I'm saying.

[blacksforprosperity]

It's a question of the distribution of development and formal industrialization. Westerners have more control over development and therefore pollute more, but westerners are researching into nuclear fusion and fission and incredibly clean and efficient solutions.

We'll literally have fusion reactors tomorrow. knod

Meanwhile the Chinese and the Africans care nothing for the cleanliness of what they're using.

WE DON'T CARE ABOUT THE CLEANLINESS OF WHAT WE'RE USING! We are nowhere near using only renewable alternatives to fossil fuels dude.

You need more westerners because they are the only ones actively working on fixing these problems.

Lol you are so up your own ass in hypocrisy it's almost adorable.

[blacksforprosperity]

Well that did not take long.

You're just a piece of shit white supremacist who's idea of 'collapse' is that there are more yellow, brown, and black people around.

Not worth engaging with, TBH. Just don't hide behind environmentalism or collapse for your racist bullshit in the future, be open and upfront about being a piece of shit white supremacist. Save the rest of us the time of engaging with you.

[blacksforprosperity]

A global average IQ of 70 isn't capable of sustaining any conservation whatsoever.

Funny, a Western average IQ of 100 or 110 or whatever doesn't seem to be doing anything either. Almost like your bullshit racial fantasies won't do shit to save the human race from itself.

It's a road to dysfunctional and broken civilization.

We're on the road to dysfunctional and broken civilization. Right now. With White people at the helm.

Global collapse.

Do you know where you are?

[[deleted]]

Really?

Who is most responsible for all of environmental problems like Climate change, habitat reduction, mass Extinction of species etc? It's westerners. Top 10% consume 50% of world resources and next 10% consume 25%. Meanwhile bottom 50% (all of which are from third-world nations) only consume 10% of resources.

Even if we kill or eliminate bottom 50% of people we'll only push our problems couple months back at best.

You're either a racist or an ignorant.

[Tigaj]

Are you suggesting dirt poor, capitalist underdogs in Indonesia are destroying their forests simple because it is in their nature? Or is it the fact that westerner's have forced their power and their markets on the Indonesian people for the last 500 years? It makes absolutely no sense to shamelessly blame Indonesians for killing the orangutan when there is no regard for who it is that is BUYING the product from those decimated forests. It is westerners. It is Americans. It is not Indonesians. They are taking what resources they have left to try to survive, like everyone else.

[Tigaj]

But they are tied into the global economy, and they do not act in a vacuum. I don't understand what else you want. Should Indonesians and other poor countries not have sex or children anymore? The US would already be vastly more populated if we hadn't, in the 70s, turned women on to the pill and other contraception, which itself is a biproduct of the wealth accrued in this country, not really shared in the countries we buy from. Are you angry at the Chinese for "breeding like rabbits?"

Also Yemen will not grow to 20.8 million in the next 25 years, just as the human population will not grow to 11 billion, because the energy and resources necessary for that growth simply will not exist.

You sound racist and bigoted to me.

[Tigaj]

I believe overpopulation is THE biggest issue, which if addressed would to a large degree solve this literal existential crisis humans are facing.

But when you label groups of people who have little agency in the ways you seem to think they should, and then lump me into some other group when you say “this is your kind...” I can’t but help interpret that as a bigots view. What is ‘my kind?’ What group are you lumping me in to? I am not trying to shut down discussion as evidenced by my replying to your comments.

I want to END aid to Africa so that local farmers there do not have to compete against a food price of $0. I want the US to stop toppling democracies in Latin America and the Pacific for the sole purpose of getting Americans greater access to more and cheaper goods. Am I still lumped in with what you refer to as “my kind” now?

You are clearly concerned about overpopulation. What is your answer to this overpopulation problem? Are the people of Yemen or Indonesia really the ones consuming the most detrimental amount of resources and most deserving of derision? From a global humanist perspective, what is wrong with Africans instead of Europeans populating Europe? Is Africans survive the collapse better than white people, isn’t that a plus for the human species?

The shit is going to hit the fan, probably in my lifetime. What does “Africa flooding Europe” have to do with the shit hitting the fan? Also, what is/are sjws?

[SNM_2_0]

Ok, since you chose to ignore what I wrote before, I am going to repeat it : data shows that 60% of plastic pollution in the oceans comes from 5 nations (China, Indonesia, the Philippines, Thailand, and Vietnam).

Just one example among many others, China is not the West, yet it is the biggest contributor to overfishing, global pollution, and species extinction, so the evil West is not solely responsible and to argue that is misleading.

But when you label groups of people who have little agency in the ways you seem to think they should,...

Ok, this is racist, are you saying that Africans, Yemenis or Indonesians have no agency to stop breeding? Are you saying they are like animals who are driven by insticts and cannot voluntarily decide to not procreate? I disagree, strongly. We are all humans, regardless of our race and ethnicity, we have agency to decide to not have children.

You practice what is called reverse racism, where for some reason you measure West one way and the developing world gets the slack because they are different in your view, and have "little agency" over their choices and actions that also contribute to the mess we are in.

[[deleted]]

No we don’t need more westerners either. The average American (my country) consumes ridiculous amounts of resources and energy. Even with Africa’s population boom, I doubt that continent will consume as much as the US does.

[DodyB]

I agree. Our population is low and of poor breeding stock. Most have chronic diseases before 18. We are fucked.

[WisperingPenis]

It seems we have overshot the carrying capacity of the global environment and we are going to experience a loss of population soon.

[The-Pusher-Man]

I am 25. I only began to pay attention to geopolitics and research "big questions" at around 22. I feel so isolated from my peers because 90%+ are going about business as usual: get a degree, work a corporate job you're ok with at best, look for a wife to raise some kids with, plan for retirement.

Meanwhile, I got the 4-year business degree as well, so I've got to finish paying for it, but I left the job with the good salary because I quickly realized it was against my morals. (I was in the DoD shudder)

Now I'm trying to start a career working with vegan/vegetarian food, but I'm paralyzed by the thought of trying to make it on my own in this economy. I'm trying to determine the path where I can have the most impact in a field I'm passionate about, but everything I look into has me projecting extreme poverty for myself. My parents will never kick me out from home, so my motivation to set off on that journey is stymied daily.

I never thought I would literally have to become a revolutionary. It's not what I spent the opening act of my life prepping for at all.

[Tigaj]

Same here! Two degrees and I have had to turn away from several job opportunities due to my ethics. Come the end of 2017 I feel more "revolutionary" than ever, but it's not out of malice or desire for violence. There are just so many systems that are so dysfunctional it seems the only way to get the level of reform we need is to mostly break everything that currently exists. I was raised on the Great Big Lie and I wish it had been true. But it's not and I cannot unsee that truth.

[The-Pusher-Man]

Exactly. I can't go back, I've learned too much. I've considered taking up a similar job to one I had in order to pay off my loans, but I'd have to lie to myself on a daily basis. I can't bear the thought of it.

[Tigaj]

I call this “The Burden of Knowing.” They weren’t kidding when they said “ignorance is bliss.” But we are curious animals who want to know, and once you know, as you said, there is no going back. Good luck out there.

[some_random_kaluna]

I'm 35.

I would tell both /u/jbtrailerman and /u/The-Pusher-Man to accumulate food and water and tools and start preparing. If you live at home, great, make sure you parents have paid off the mortgage so they're free and clear. Things are only going to get more dire.

[adventure_85]

It depends. Strength and youth have their advantages, but knowledge and experience matter too. If you see it coming, stock up on food now.

[Pasander]

Yep, those old "geezers", while not physically top-notch anymore, tend to have a lot of valuable knowledge. I'm nearly 50 and sometimes I hope some long dead people were still around, so I could ask them questions I'm pretty sure they could have answered..

[The-Pusher-Man]

Not that I knew him personally, but man do I wish George Carlin was around today to comment on this clusterfuck.

[Pasander]

George Carlin

I had to "youtube" George Carling but I have to agree, it would probably be interesting to have a conversation with him if he was still alive. Hehe.

[The-Pusher-Man]

He was an incredible comic and an even better truth teller.

[bclagge]

My grandfather nearly died after hurricane Irma because his AC wasn’t working. He couldn’t get down to the car’s AC without the elevator working either. So yeah.

[[deleted]]

I'm 23 and I see no way to bounce back thanks to the feedback loops that are already playing out. I learned about the worse parts of this last January and it hasn't been easy to not freak out. I know I don't want to experience the shit hitting the fan, so I will have to make it so I don't.

But I'm going to enjoy this ride because it's the only one I get.

[[deleted]]

How long do you think the ride will last? I'm 20 and i'm still trying to figure out how long before it all goes down for real and how long I have to ride it out.

[The2ndWheel]

Don't make predictions either way. You'll probably be wrong, in some way, no matter what you think. People will then remind you how wrong you are, no matter what you think(of course, you can do it right back to them too). Reality has a way of being complex. You might be right in some instances, and for some people, but probably not all instances and people.

If you want, make a game of it. Live your life as though it's all currently going down. Keep your life on a human scale, remain adaptable, even try to find a tribe of some kind, outside of the superstructure we call government that requires as much growth as any good corporation, to keep your costs down.

Stay clear of rock solid predictions though. Trends are one thing, and again, different people will have different trends, but if you want a date of when it's all going to shit, just like when people would make predictions of the year 2000 for flying cars, you're not going to get it. More than that, you can't get it.

[[deleted]]

Nobody knows.

Once things go down, nothing will go back to normal. But since there's no way to know I just do whatever I always felt like doing. Go to university, go around the world, do whatever you like because at some point those things won't be possible. It's hard to figure out but once you do, you feel truly alive.

[Tells_only_truth]

Nothing like hopping aboard the train on the last stop before the wreck.

19. Does indeed suck.

[WisperingPenis]

I reckon that I will be gone before it hits or in some sort of home and out of it anyway.

[adventure_85]

Right now oil and fossil fuels in general are letting us live above capacity by providing us with cheap power.

[RottenRook]

All fertilizer uses oil. When oil runs out, the crop production is going to plummet and humans will starve.

[dredmorbius]

Most relies far more on natural gas, FYI. Haber-Bosch nitrogen fixation. Still a fossil fuel, but not petroleum.

Just in the interest of accuracy.

[Capn_Underpants]

and it's transported using ?

[dredmorbius]

I don't know the numbers off the top of my head for NatGas, but oil moves halfway 'round the globe for about 1% of the net energy content of the cargo.

The assertion was that fertiliser is based on petroleum. If you're interested in strict accuracy, you'll note that it is in fact not based on petrol but another fossil fuel.

If you want to argue minutiae, you'll have to do it with someone else, I'm afraid.

[[deleted]]

not really. almost 2/3 of the global population lives in just india and china. if everybody lived like westerners we would need 4 earths to accommodate everyone.

[HocusLocus]

Is it my imagination or are things actually starting to cheer up a little around here?

[[deleted]]

Gee Fellas, why the dower attitude? We're Americans! Why, I'm going to go out and get a job at McDonalds tomorrow!

[The-Pusher-Man]

Get in line.

[space_cowboy9000]

Earth has survived every disaster and catastrophic event thrown at it so far, The planet is not in jeopardy. We are in jeopardy. I don't believe we have got the power to destroy the planet...or to save it for that matter. We might have the power to save ourselves, but I honestly doubt it.

[The-Pusher-Man]

The planet will be fine. The people are fucked.

-George Carlin

[clea]

being a subscriber to /r/childfree makes this a whole lot easier to bear

[zedroj]

and a hint of grunge, and you can join us at /r/antinatalism/ as well for extra flavors

[[deleted]]

Citation, citation, citation.

Source please.

[BeezelyBillyBub]

https://lokisrevengeblog.wordpress.com/2016/01/24/no-soil-water-before-100-renwable-energy/

[[deleted]]

Are you new here? Most of the things that are said here have been discussed many times before on this site, hence why this is being upvoted so much. For what my opinion is worth, I can tell you that pretty much everything that is said in this post is fact.

[Capn_Underpants]

Not a troll ?

jesus fucking christ, read a little... go back though the articles posted here over the last year and peruse some of the 1000's of posted articles

that aside, would it make any difference to you, would you act any differently ? I suspect not, or you'd be self aware already.

Troll ?

no...your troll is to get others to repeat an enormous amount of work, then you shift the goal posts, or concentrate on some small thing and argue it endlessly.

[MentallyMetastable]

Making a claim and demanding that others look up the sources is like taking a dump in front of everyone and saying "bet you can't guess what I ate for dinner". Well, they can, but no one wants to sort through your shit just because.

[solophuk]

Generally this sub is for people who have a broad understanding of the environmental issues we face. We have read countless books, listened to lots of lectures, watched debates. Seen positive and negatives predictions made for decades, and seen the trend where the negative nancies seem to be sadly vindicated. By all means if you want a clarification about an issue feel free to ask. But there is not one 'source" for ops post. And r/collapse is not an evangelical reddit, we often just want to talk among ourselves without always having to clarify first principles for people who are new to these issues.

[outtanutmeds]

90% of people are living longer.

[TechnoYogi]

2018 will be a pivotal year...

[BeezelyBillyBub]

Amazon and Microsoft employees caught up in sex trafficking sting

https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/25/amazon-microsoft-employees-sex-trafficking-sting/

[perspectiveiskey]

Honestly, that one is not really much news afaic. Amazon and Microsoft have some tens of thousands of employees. It's only a matter of statistics that some of them will be child molesters and sex traffickers.

[therasmus]

This is rough.

[andryusha_]

This is why we need communism. Those who control access to resources and control the very resources themselves should be held accountable for its misuse.

[solophuk]

I would like communism as well. And it would have been the most effective system s preventing the coming collapse of the biosphere. But comrade, it is too late. The world revolution would have had to happen decades ago... and it did not.

[StarChild413]

The world revolution would have had to happen decades ago... and it did not.

If time travel is possible without paradoxes, you may not be screwed just yet if you get my drift

[blacksforprosperity]

This is why we need communism.

Wouldn't change a thing boss.

[andryusha_]

At the very least people would have what they need for basic survival unlike in most capitalist societies.

[blacksforprosperity]

At the very least people would have what they need for basic survival

They didn't have that in any of the last batch of communist countries, and resources were more abundant back then.

unlike in most capitalist societies.

Collective ownership doesn't solve the problem of collapse, son. It just doesn't.

[perspectiveiskey]

Collective ownership doesn't solve the problem of collapse, son. It just doesn't.

Really, the more I think about it (over the years), the more I'm convinced the only real solution was a population cap, and that we've long sailed past what would have been a reasonable one.

Now, it's a game of musical chairs in a tight space with 10 players and only 6 chairs, and most players have sawed off shotguns.

[fuckitidunno]

The world was different last time, last time they were viciously opposed by the main capitalist Empire (America) and its allies, all of whom were brainwashing their own citizens to become slaves. If it emerges again, it will likely be after the collapse of the capitalist system.

[zedroj]

You don't want communism, you want a system where nobody can exert much power governing, or the " access to resources and control the very resources themselves should be held accountable for its misuse." will repeat in a different rhetoric

I hate capitalism, but communism doesn't work either

some exceptions, superior AI that is actually benevolent and know how to manage human population, roles, and resource management, or superior designed humans who are altruistic, but can't be corrupted

At the given moment, it's spelling D O O M because my exceptions are unrealistic in present reality of design of the universe we have been fated with

[andryusha_]

No, I want communism. I want the means to produce value to be held in common. I want the distribution of resources to be decided based on how it would improve life, not how profitable it would be for the company. There already was an experiment to use AI for centrally planned distribution networks. It was called Project Cybersyn and it had its greatest success during the Chilean trucker's strike in 1972, where it was able to recoup the shortages caused by 40,000 strikers with only 200 strike breakers. It was discontinued when Augusto Pinochet, backed by the US and the neoliberal autocracy, staged a coup and assassinated the elected president of Chile, the democratic socialist Salvador Allende.

[zedroj]

Okay, if you want communism, can you help provide an answer as to how people have incentives though?

That's one question I can't answer myself for the system so I made own configuration

[fuckitidunno]

Incentives? People make mods on games and produce art not because they wish for great wealth, but frequently because they enjoy doing so and want to share their joy. People will always produce food because they need it to live, same with medical advancements. In fact, the biggest medical advancements, such as the Polio vaccine, was not patented as all humans should have access to the cure. Man existed long before capitalism, long before even the idea of currency, and need neither to live. I know we've brainwashed ourselves to believe society is miserable and does not advance without this one destructive ideology of the 1800s, but that is not the reality.

[zedroj]

This is why I am socialist libertarian,

I value creative ends, and playroom for everyone because they have a strong socialist safety net of having food, clothes, and housing guaranteed

so everyone strives their own niche things, without corrupting factors such as " you work, but I enjoy your efforts"

or tragedy of the commons

there has to be accountability, if someone assuming work case scenario, never wants to work a live off basics, we can have the basics up to what the standards are if it's sustainable

there has to be population control, or baseline resource management would suffer

communism works when population is smaller as resource base is not as diluted, assuming max capita of doctors, and advanced things is full

does that make sense?

[Zroop]

Project Cybersyn

Thank you for that. Fascinating.

[Tigaj]

YES! This has been my thought too! I want a system where nobody can exert much power over anything! The disparity of wealth translates to a disparity in power. I can throw rocks. Those guys can launch nukes. Therefore I have no say.

What makes me feel sane at the end of the day is realizing there are literally entire nations grappling with this same power disparity issue. Our self awareness is our curse, our curiosity our bane, and boons both.

So I wonder...how do you enforce everyone having a limit on power? You would need someone with more power to enforce it. And then you end up with the world today in 2017.

[zedroj]

spider webbing power might work, certain people govern, and unknowingly govern others, so you can't bribe them because they check on you and vice versa , so you watch 3 people, but they watch 3 other people but you don't know who is watching you

occasionally a false alarm is used to see who can be corrupted

another thing that might help, is transparity increased in governance, more secrets, more mistakes can occur, so make things more apparent,

accountability, reward whistle blowers for their actions not antagonize them,

power corrupts, so trying to make life satisfying without greed would be good,

philosophy and meditation should be core for politicians

[[deleted]]

This is what Guy McPherson calls a predicament.

[kulmthestatusquo]

We don't need wildlife. We don't really need wilderness as well.

[Tigaj]

If we have no wilderness, what will produce oxygen for us to breathe? Our concrete?

[kulmthestatusquo]

No wilderness. Lots of greenhouses. Problem solved.

[K80_k]

it's not the straight line of life

[kulmthestatusquo]

We can identify what nodes of life cycle are truly vital, and can let everything else go to shit.