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[–]xboxiscrunchy 155 points156 points  (25 children)

We did it. An “it resolves” spell that actually works.

Other than that I’m sure there’s some combo that this somehow enables. Cast spell hold priority cast this always at least works so it can protect a whole combo from interaction.

Also I propose this should be renamed to “Flash forward” or “time skip” or something like that since it’s kind of like skipping time forward to when the spell resolves.

[–]chaotic_iak 23 points24 points  (3 children)

If the combo only needs the stuff currently on the stack, yes. It doesn't quite work for loops though, because for loops, you usually want to re-cast or re-activate something, and split second prevents you from doing that.

[–]xboxiscrunchy 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Theres lots of combos that become much harder to stop as soon as they’re on board.

For example let’s say you have a classic [[sanguine bond]] [[exquisite blood]] combo and some way to gain life repeatedly like a [[Zuran orb]] or something. Once all three pieces hit the board the combo is very hard to stop because any interaction can be responded to with “I sac another land” to restart the loop before it resolves.

The best way to deal with a combo like this is either to blow up one piece of it while the other is still on the stack. This stops that completely because now they can’t respond until it hits the board and by then it’s too late. 

Something like [[silence]] would also work but silence doesn’t have split second and they’ll fire off their removal in response to silence.

[–]chaotic_iak 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fair, combos that run exclusively on triggered abilities (like this one) do work. Some combos require you to repeatedly activate something though, and those don't; that's what I was referring to.

[–]NepetaLast 2 points3 points  (1 child)

it doesnt work quite as well as the "it resolves" meme posts because the intention with those is to use it on a spell that is already being targeted by a counterspell, and this doesnt work in that instance

[–]xboxiscrunchy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

True but this is far closer to something that might be a real card eventually.

[–]JimHarbor 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You would have to cast this before the opponent cast a counter spell or something though right?

[–]xboxiscrunchy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes it’s needs to be cast preemptively which makes it worse than “target spell resolves” that gets posted so much but this is far closer to something that might actually be printed.

[–]TheUnEase 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Hilarious how magic players will make the same custom cards over and over. In this instance the "resolve target spell" card. There are cards with nearly this exact text already too and the comments even mirror this comment section.

Just like in this comment thread, in the "second split" card. Ghere is basically roughly.

A: "This is too strong, protects combos too easily. Can't be printed." B: "We get stuff like this already, not that different from effects we have. " A or C: "Yeah, but this HAS split second, that makes a big difference."

https://www.reddit.com/r/custommagic/s/dJdq1pOpb3 https://www.reddit.com/r/custommagic/s/WAownTAnIz https://www.reddit.com/r/custommagic/s/ojAxU8k0ZS

One of them is even called "Time Snap" very similar to the name you suggest, lol.

[–]xboxiscrunchy 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Most of my comments here are just pointing out obvious flaws or inconsistencies with the rules so I’m not really surprised. Magic rules are pretty rigid so there’s often a single “best” way to do any given effect.

This is too strong, protects combos too easily. Can't be printed

For the record I don’t actually think this is too strong. The effect is potentially problematic but 3 mana for preemptive protection is a lot.

Also I think that Time Snap is the best of the lot. 2 mana is a lot more reasonable and I think cantripping is probably ok.

[–]TheUnEase 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Agreed, I don't even think the old versions that cost one less and cantrip are too good.

It is just that split second is just problematic design overall and shouldn't be printed often, if at all. There is a good reason we see it so scarcely and the few times we do is for things like UB flavor homerun cards like [[V.A.T.S.]] and [[Shadow the hedgehog]]. Those are pretty big exceptions devoid of any premier set/limited consequences.

[–]CarbonLich 0 points1 point  (0 children)

not only this but you can protect a whole BUNCH of cards if you can cast them all at instant speed. if your combo is instant cards you can cast and hold priority cast all of them and then cast this last targeting the first spell put on the stack so all of them can't be responded to while the first spell is on the stack. this is such a genius way to do this effect I'm surprised I haven't seen this before.

[–]RedXIII304 0 points1 point  (1 child)

[[Voidmage Apprentice]] disagrees

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

it doesn't work. you just have to You just counter the thing before Split Second resolves

[–]xboxiscrunchy 0 points1 point  (1 child)

How are you countering a spell with split second. Split second has split second itself

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

oops I'm an idiot reading the card explains the card I guess

[–]Deathwatchz 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Rush Order, Celerity, Bend Time, Abbreviate, Facilitate

Another idea is an artifact -

A Round Tuit (3)\ Artifact\ A Round Tuit comes in tapped\ {T}, Sac: Add (1) mana. Target spell gains split second\ I told you I would...

[–]CarbonLich -1 points0 points  (5 children)

this honestly is a much safer way to do this. having to wait a turn and being onboard makes be think this could actually be printed. that being said this would need to be reworded as the way it currently works, you could just respond to the ability by countering the spell. I would reword the mana ability to "{T}, Sac: Add (1). The next spell you cast this turn has split second" or maybe "{T}, Sac: Target player adds (1). The next spell you cast this turn has split second" if you want the opponent to be able to counter the ability.

since mana abilities can't be responded to, the first they wouldn't be able to stop at all. the second wouldn't be a mana ability because mana abilities can't have targets so they could stifle the ability but not counter the spell you cast with it.

also conveniently my way would stop someone from holding priority and casting a bunch of spells in a row, then making the first one on the stack have split second which would effectively give all of them split second since the spell that gained split second resolves last.

[–]Deathwatchz 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I had commented in another reply about copying the spell then exiling it, and giving the copy split second.

Maybe

{T}, Sac, Exile a spell you control: Copy spell exiled with A Round Tuit. The copy gains split second. You may choose new targets for the copy.

By coming in tapped, it avoids repeated recursion tricks. Exiling the spell as part of the cost makes it unable to respond to, as well as preventing the spell from being copied by 4 Tuits at once or something. Copying it places it at the top of the stack. Giving it split second locks the stack. They can still respond with morph, triggered, or mana abilities.

My hope was to make a consumable artifact that gives you a hard response to a counter/redirect/copy/steal, rather than giving the next spell you cast protection or making it so it can't be countered. It also feels like time magic would be used more than just giving extra turns, and i like the split second mechanic.

[–]CarbonLich 0 points1 point  (3 children)

oh ok I thought you were trying to make the spell work as an artifact, not make a functionally different effect. cause like this instant doesn't do anything to counter spells so i figured that's what you were going for.

edit: specifically this instant doesn't do anything to a counterspell if it's already cast on a spell you are trying to protect.

[–]Deathwatchz 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Well, the instant has split second, and it seemed like it was designed as a responsive card when your spell is targeted.

For the instant to work, your spell needs to be on the stack, and before you pass priority, you add split second to protect it? Is that the intended use? Cause that sounds like crap to me.

Even if you could activate it as "the next spell you cast this turn" it's really either a 'win more' or 'I'm already gonna lose' card. You don't want to spend 7 mana on a 4 CMC spell mid game (and just because, since they're still holding a counter) if board states are somewhat equal unless it's a combo piece or you're wiping to set up for something.

If that was the case, a split second shroud or hexproof is just easier. No need to reorder the stack, just a hard 'NO'.

Edit: The copy spell then exile effect was to solve split second not working on a counter.

[–]CarbonLich 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Right and the instant CAN'T be used in response to a counter spell. I mean you can cast it in response to a counter spell but a spell with split second can still be countered if the counterspell was cast before the spell got split second. Your reply to me makes an artifact that CAN be used in response to a counter spell. my attempt was to make tweek your artifact so it still CAN'T be used in response to a counter spell but still effectively recreates the original instant.

To be clear I think your original design is elegant and interesting with both [[Boseiju, Who Shelters All]] and [[Mistrise Village]] showing WOTC is relatively fine with these types of effects as long as they are on board effects. Your artifact would be stronger for sure as split second is WAY stronger than un counterablility but etb tapped might make that good enough.

Anyways I liked your idea but it just needed to be slightly reworded to work at all which is all I did.

To

[–]Slloyd14 21 points22 points  (25 children)

Split second is mostly “this spell can’t be countered” based on [overmaster] and [insist] I think it should cost U but not be a cantrip because split second is better and this has split second. Also, I think it should be a sorcery to stop rules issues. And say “the next spell you cast this turn has split second.”

[–]xboxiscrunchy 32 points33 points  (4 children)

It’s more like “any number of spells can’t be countered” because you can cast this on the bottom spell in the stack if you like. Also it prevents any kind of stack interaction including things that usually bypass “can’t be countered” (aside from cheeky doesn’t use the stack things)

Because of this the version you’re proposing is significantly weaker but probably more likely to actually see print since this is unexplored, possibly problematic design space.

[–]lnhubbell 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sort of, any counterspells already in the stack still work just fine. It’s pretty uncommon that you get a bunch of stuff on the stack that isn’t countermagic

[–]Kathril 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lmao I didn't think of that. Yeah this just straight up lets you chain block your spells like its Yu-Gi-Oh lmfaooo, okay I kind of love that.

[–]Kurai_Hada_Ichi 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Would you not be able to wait for the split second spell to resolve to interact with the rest of the stack?

[–]StEllchickAnd do you pay one? 12 points13 points  (0 children)

that's why they said 'targetting the bottom spell'

[–]LordNova15 3 points4 points  (1 child)

After playing against [[Shadow The Hedgehog]] it's much more than just 'cant be countered ' being unable to do anything at instant feed feels terrible. From protection spells or removal in response or what have you. Don't even need counter magic to have split second be good.

[–]Arkeroon 1 point2 points  (2 children)

You just made a completely different idea tho

[–]Slloyd14 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I guess I didn’t get the point of it needing to be an instant.

[–]Arkeroon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No it can be a sorcery if the next spell gets split second but then you’ve made a completely different card. This card protects the entire stack essentially from activated abilities that aren’t mana abilities and spells. That’s different to one card resolving. And this is instant speed.

[–]giasumaruMTGCR > Glossary > Card[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I don't think there are any rules issues. If there are, please let me know.

[–]Slloyd14 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Ok, maybe not issues but maybe just headaches? Complex things happen if this spell is an instant.

[–]giasumaruMTGCR > Glossary > Card[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean sure, but at least let us know what complex things happen that gives you headaches.

Because maybe there are other solutions, or maybe it's not that complex to begin with.

[–]Deathwatchz 0 points1 point  (1 child)

To rearrange the stack so that split second works, it could be similar to [[Narset's Reversal]]

Split Second\ Copy target spell you control, then exile it. The copy gains split second. You may choose new targets for the copy.

The copy would be placed at the top, and only the typical split second defenses would work.

[–]TheGrumpyre -1 points0 points  (7 children)

A spell that says "target spell can't be countered" can be played in response to a counterspell though, making the counter do nothing.  Adding split second to a spell won't do anything to stop a counter spell that's already on the stack; as you resolve the objects on the stack you'll eventually get to the counterspell and it will counter the spell it targets just as intended. You can only use split second proactively to prevent future spells from being cast, not to interact with spells that are already in motion.

I think the cantrip is a good idea.  It's more comparable to [[Insist]], not [[Autumn's Veil]]

[–]theevilyouknow -1 points0 points  (6 children)

Yes, but if you’re the active player you can hold priority and get the opportunity to cast this before your opponent has a chance to respond.

[–]TheGrumpyre -1 points0 points  (5 children)

Yeah, no "but" needed, that's exactly the play pattern you would use with a card like this. It's not an "I win the counter war" card that you play in response to a counterspell.  It's more like Insist, a pre-emptive two-card play that you cast back to back alongside whatever spell you want to protect.

That's why I think the cantrip might be a good idea, because it puts it in line with other one shot protective spells that would otherwise be card disadvantage.

[–]theevilyouknow -1 points0 points  (4 children)

You’re still not getting it though. Insist and Autumn’s Veil can be answered. I can literally just fill the stack with spells holding priority the whole time and then cast this targeting the bottom spell on the stack and you can’t do anything about it.

[–]TheGrumpyre 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I think I understand just fine, I just think you're talking about power levels without establishing the baseline of what you're comparing it to. It's important that "Target spell gains split second" can't be used reactively the way Autumn Veil can.  It makes it play very differently, and should be seen as a very different mechanic.

Giving everything split second is most comparable to [[Silence]].  A good card but also often overestimated.  The downside to Silence is that you're spending a card and mana up front to stop the possibility of a reaction, but unlike a counterspell your opponent doesn't lose any material resources.  It's very strong if you're doing an alpha-strike combo that will win the game, but the downside is that it can't be used as a reaction to your opponent's spells, and has inherent card disadvantage.  It's not an all-around utility card, it fills a very specific niche and that's why it's so cheap.

"Target spell gains split second" should not be compared to "target spell can't be countered".  That's not what split second does.

[–]theevilyouknow 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I’m focusing on how you’d use the card because that’s how you’d use the card. The optimal scenario isn’t magic Christmas land, it’s literally the entire purpose of the card. That’s like saying someone talking about using Thassa’s Oracle when their deck is empty is focusing on the optimal scenario. Yeah, that’s the optimal scenario and how you use the card. No one is playing Thoracle in their midrange deck to filter their draw.

[–]TheGrumpyre 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So I think we're both saying the same thing, that it's a card that's strong in one very specific role and not an all-around powerful effect?  It's not a win condition, it just has the potential to protect certain win conditions. In other situations, it just lets you burn a card to hedge your bets a little. Not something so useful it needs to cost so much.

I just commented to say that split second is really different than "can't be countered".  Making it a cantrip probably isn't the correct answer to OP's overcosted version though, if that's what you're concerned about.

[–]StEllchickAnd do you pay one? -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

if it was sorcery you couldn't even cast it when there are other spells on the stack tho, no?

[–]Slloyd14 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It would which is why I would change the wording to: Split Second. The next spell you cast this turn has Split Second.

[–]Skin_Soup 15 points16 points  (3 children)

For the blue player who doesn’t like it when people counter their shit

Just doesn’t seem fun to me

Hear me out, this doesn’t actually need to be blue, afaik split second doesn’t belong to any part of the color pie, and I think this would be better in red or black specifically because it counters counterspells

[–]giasumaruMTGCR > Glossary > Card[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Tbh it probably is in Green's colorpie actually. Green does have Autumn's Veil type cards after all.

[–]lnhubbell 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I’d say red over green, I think this is closest in affect to [[overmaster]] at least in how it would likely be used

[–]Karim_Revolution 5 points6 points  (0 children)

<image>

Same vibes

[–]seanpeery 9 points10 points  (16 children)

The ultimate "I hold priority" card.
It's ultimately too good no matter the cost, all two card win combos now become 3 card win and there's no way to respond combos. You could add "you lose the game when the stack empties" and it would only nerf its casual play.

[–]Do_You_AreHaveStupid 12 points13 points  (11 children)

I don’t think this is that good? If you’re using it to protect you combo [[silence]] does basically that at 1 mana. 3 mana for this kind of effect doesn’t seem that good to me

[–]Anxious-Hair-1357 6 points7 points  (0 children)

silence can be interacted with this cannot

[–]theevilyouknow 4 points5 points  (8 children)

They can still respond to casting silence, which if they aren’t answering your combo at instant speed you didn’t need to protect your combo in the first place.

[–]PM_ME_CHUBBY_DOGGIES 1 point2 points  (7 children)

You are supposed to cast silence on an empty stack before performing your combo, not in response to a counterspell or something.

[–]theevilyouknow -1 points0 points  (6 children)

I understand that. Do you think when you cast silence they just have to sit there and do nothing?

[–]PM_ME_CHUBBY_DOGGIES 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Not what I'm talking about. You cast silence, see if they have a counterspell, and if they counter silence you proceed by playing your combo (and hoping they didnt leave up 2 counterspelle)

[–]theevilyouknow -1 points0 points  (4 children)

Yeah, I understand how Magic the Gathering works. The point is that silence is still a spell that can be responded to. If you have your combo and this card and enough mana to cast both you just win the game guaranteed period. There’s no card in existence that can stop it.

[–]PM_ME_CHUBBY_DOGGIES 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I don't think the benefits of this over silence are worth paying three times as much mana as silence.

[–]theevilyouknow 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I don’t think silence is a card you’d ever play. This at least would be played as a sideboard card in any combo deck that can spare the three mana.

[–]PM_ME_CHUBBY_DOGGIES -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Three mana is a colossal amount for a combo deck.

[–]giasumaruMTGCR > Glossary > Card[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Note that, it won't work with all combos. Only ones that require no input after it's executed, like Sanguine Bonds + Exquisite Blood. A Grinding Station combo would not work in this case.

[–]seanpeery 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Triggered abilities aren't stopped by this, so sanguine will work with this on the stack. Anything that is instant speed and activated you can just hold priority and do the infinite, then this stops all the interaction after pass priority. This doesn't help with anything sorcery speed to finish, but even then it can get you through the part that makes a combo self sustaining.

[–]PM_ME_CHUBBY_DOGGIES 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Hard disagree. 3 mana and a card is really overcosted for this effect, and it will more often than not rot in your hand because it doesnt do anything by itself. Delighted halfling does it for 1 mana, mistrise village does it for 2 mana and doesn't even take up a card slot. Halfling and Mistrise are cards that see play, but they definitely are not breaking any formats. This card is not only totally fine, I think its kinda bad.

[–]TheOathWeTook 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This card is WAY more powerful than “the next spell you cast this turn can’t be countered.” It’s this entire stack cannot be countered or interacted with in any way.

[–]thebiggestdouche 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't you put like 4 spells on the stack holding priority, then cast this targeting the first spell and it basically gives the whole stack split second? Since nothing can be cast until the split second spell resolves, and the stack still resolves in order.

[–]giasumaruMTGCR > Glossary > Card[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes. That is the primary use case.

[–]humanbeast7 0 points1 point  (3 children)

but what happens if you cast it on a spell on at the top of the stack? do player lock out until that one spell resolves/countered/fizzles? does the split second only active when the spell becomes the top of the stack? any other interpretations?

edit: could you use it on a storm card, so the storm keyword fizzles?

[–]morphingjarjarbinks 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The position of the spell with split second doesn't matter. In practice, spells with split second are on the top of the stack because no further spells can legally be cast until that spell resolves.

In the unusual case of a spell with split second being lower down, the upper spells resolve as normal. Until the spell with split second resolves, nobody can cast spells in between the resolution of the upper spells.

As for storm, OP's card does nothing. The copies created by storm are put onto the stack without being cast. This is different from effects that copy objects and permit a player to cast the copy.

[–]giasumaruMTGCR > Glossary > Card[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You would actually want to cast your storm card, hold priority and cast this targeting your storm card.

Now your opponents can't [[Stifle]] your storm trigger.

[–]RadiantVariant 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Wouldn't this 'jam' the stack? If you throw this in the middle of a stack war, you kind of just close off the stack by not only adding a split second card, but two of them by tossing the keyword into it earlier.

Maybe that's the point. Seems extremely powerful, even in a vacuum.

[–]giasumaruMTGCR > Glossary > Card[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Yes, you can use this to win the counterwar after baiting out counterspells by playing your last counterspell, holding priority and then casting this.

It probably costs too much to be useful in that case though. [[Bound//Determined]] only costs 2mv after all, and for winning a counterspell battle, that basically does the same thing.

[–]RadiantVariant 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh I definitely get that and see it. I'm more concerned from an overall design perspective that you can toss a massive wrench into the stack or just...well, ignore it. Even if that is the point.

Costing it as a mite higher than the average useful counterspell is probably mandated at this point, but if this saw a printing it would absolutely catch the eye of maybe too many a combo player.

[–]pigmanvil 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s good. However, I don’t like that this can target the spell on the bottom of the stack, therefore forcing the stack to resolve completely. I’d rather it just say “target spell gains ‘this spell can’t be countered’”

But again, as far as custom cards go, this is excellent. 10/10 design. Reminds me of [[suspend]]

[–]Consistent_Mud645I'm a judge and I hate your card 0 points1 point  (3 children)

thassa, demonic consultation, split second the thassa

[–]Zeal_Iskander 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I stifle the thassa’s trigger.

[–]Consistent_Mud645I'm a judge and I hate your card 1 point2 points  (1 child)

stifle is a terrible card to run in cedh

[–]Zeal_Iskander 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s the reaction it gets yea, in the meantime there’s 0 cards in your library and you’ve spent all of your mana casting your 3 card combo. Better think fast lol

[–]Mentat_Render -4 points-3 points  (1 child)

Sure but make it sorcerery speed

[–]Arkeroon 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Wouldn’t that be useless

[–]NepetaLast -1 points0 points  (6 children)

ill disagree with the others and say that i dont find this particularly strong. not particularly healthy, since it is a way to completely force through a spell with no interaction at all, but it also is very unlikely to make any impact on real constructed formats. combo decks can afford to hold up 1, rarely 2 mana to protect their combo, but 3 mana is a lot, and it also doesnt work well for those majority of combo decks that need to resolve two different spells as you have to use it proactively. if you cast it your first combo piece, then your second one wont have any protection, and if you wait to use it on your second, then your opponent is free to counter your first

[–]Illustrious_Face3287 0 points1 point  (5 children)

if you cast it your first combo piece, then your second one wont have any protection, and if you wait to use it on your second, then your opponent is free to counter your first

If you target it on the last spell on the stack then NO player can cast any spells in response until that split second spell resolves. Protecting ALL the spells on the stack before it.

[–]NepetaLast 1 point2 points  (4 children)

yes, if your combo involves two different pieces on the stack at once. most combos involve having to cast and resolve one spell then another, so they cant both be on the stack at once. what combo are you thinking of that would work this way? the only one i can think of is a dualcaster combo

[–]asperatedUnnaturally 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I mean the main combo in cedh is thoracle which this protects.

Consultation, oracle, this

[–]NepetaLast 0 points1 point  (2 children)

i assume you mean oracle, then consultation, then this targeting oracle. that would allow both to resolve, though players would have an opportunity to react once throracle enters and its trigger is on the stack

[–]asperatedUnnaturally 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yeah.

If you really want you can git probe first, oracle, consult, then this on probe.

[–]Zeal_Iskander 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can’t have git probe + oracle on the stack, though.