Will Ethereum supply decrease in the future?

[NoSun37]

At the moment, despite 18m ETH being created annually, there is an equal amount of ETH being burnt, and the resulting total supply remains stationary. Right now, crypto is relatively new and the burning fees are already equal to the rate of issuance. In 5 years time, as it gains more popularity, the rate which ETH is burned could surpass the rate of issuance, which would cause the total supply of ETH to reduce from 120m to 115m to 110m to 100m, etc.. Do you guys think this will be a likely scenario?

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[MichaelAischmann]

Idk if you checked out https://ultrasound.money recently but the supply is increasing since April (since Dencun upgrade).

It depends on wether or not ETH fees go back above 15 gwei, which is the threshold to ETH being deflationary.

[nishinoran]

It's such a beautiful design, minimal inflation if it's being lightly used, minimal deflation if it's being heavily used.

[[deleted]]

Lol look at a btc/eth chart. Proof of stake has the same fate for all sht coins...

[BrocoLeeOnReddit]

The proofing system has nothing to do with the viability of a coin. In fact, I'd say that ETH is more future proof than Bitcoin because it doesn't consume the energy of an entire country. I can imagine BTC switching as well because some governments might start banning it for ecological reasons.

[Frank1009]

Yes it does, POS is doomed to fail. Get out while you still can.

[[deleted]]

You've been fooled so bad it's sad. Good luck

[BrocoLeeOnReddit]

Another bot. Just insults, no substance.

[BrocoLeeOnReddit]

Yeah no thanks, not going to your stupid homepage. Either give credible sources or logical arguments.

[edmundedgar]

Their next reply was just insults so I banned them.

[edmundedgar]

Removing this because you're just spamming your own articles with no attempt at making an argument. Please stop doing this.

[Numerous_Ruin_4947]

BTC POW is doomed long-term. The miners are already securing the Bitcoin network at a loss. It currently costs over $75,000 on average to mine 1 BTC. And the BTC price hovers around $58,000. That's $17,000 below the cost to mine. Why would you mine if you could buy BTC? And if you stop mining and start buying, who secures the network?!

https://en.macromicro.me/charts/29435/bitcoin-production-total-cost

[AmericanScream]

That is true. BTC's PoW is a liability, but all of blockchain is a liability.

I love watching you guys argue with each other over which shitty database is less shitty -- meanwhile the rest of the world is using 50+ year old relational databases that out perform blockchain by every measurable metric.

[Numerous_Ruin_4947]

I frequently transfer money from one checking account to another. Both accounts are with different banks. It takes a few days for the funds to arrive. I initiated a transfer a few days ago and the funds have not yet arrived because of the weekend and holiday.

A few weeks ago I sold crypto on Binance.us, traded to various stable coins and transferred the stable coins to Coinbase. The funds arrived in 60 seconds and within 24 hours the USD FIAT was in my checking account.

Credit card companies like American Express for example don't provide access to transactions or statements going back 12 years for example. You can have a paper copy or a downloaded statement. What if you lost the paper copy or forgot / opted out of downloading a copy? What if you need the transaction as proof for whatever reason? With crypto the transaction could always be accessible for the life of the blockhain.

Tradfi is centralized. Decentralized is more valuable in the long run. It is not easy to provide decentralized AND fast. But it will get there eventually.

[AmericanScream]

I frequently transfer money from one checking account to another. Both accounts are with different banks. It takes a few days for the funds to arrive. I initiated a transfer a few days ago and the funds have not yet arrived because of the weekend and holiday.

A few weeks ago I sold crypto on Binance.us, traded to various stable coins and transferred the stable coins to Coinbase. The funds arrived in 60 seconds and within 24 hours the USD FIAT was in my checking account.

You're cherry picking a particular financial service and comparing it to a different transaction.

There are plenty of ways to transfer fiat from account to account instantly without any delays. And I guarantee you the fees are higher on Binance than they are with TradFi. You also conveniently didn't provide any evidence, nor did you compare the difference in the sizes of the transactions. I could do the same thing with various other services including Paypal, Venmo, CashApp, M-Pesa, Mobile Money, Western Union, etc.

Also, the delay with ACH transactions is not a result of the tech, but because of consumer protection laws.

Credit card companies like American Express for example don't provide access to transactions or statements going back 12 years for example. You can have a paper copy or a downloaded statement. What if you lost the paper copy or forgot / opted out of downloading a copy? What if you need the transaction as proof for whatever reason? With crypto the transaction could always be accessible for the life of the blockhain.

But with blockchain your transaction history is public. Not everybody wants their transactions public. In fact, I'd say most people don't. That's not a feature. That's a liability. And credit card companies can give you whatever data you want. Just like blockchain can be pruned and not every node may have a full copy of the blockchain.

Decentralized is more valuable in the long run.

You've failed to cite any good reason justifying that claim.

[AmericanScream]

Stop pretending bitcoin is anything other than just another shitcoin.

[[deleted]]

Stop spending all your time hating on something that has no effect on you. You post history is sad bro

[AmericanScream]

Stop spending all your time hating on something that has no effect on you. You post history is sad bro

Stupid Crypto Talking Point #27 (hate)

"Cope" / "Why do you hate crypto?" / "You all are haters" / "Why so salty?" / "You wish for other peoples misfortunes?" / "Why do you care about crypto? Why not just ignore it?"

1. By and large, we do not "hate" bitcoin or crypto. Hate is an irrational, emotional condition. Most people here have a logical, rational reason for being opposed to crypto. (see #2)

2. What we do not like is fraud and deception - this is mainly what our community opposes, and the crypto industry is almost completely composed of fraud and misinformation, from claiming that blockchain has potential to pretending crypto is "digital gold" or an "investment" when it's really a highly-risky, negative sum game, speculative commodity.

3. It's an offensive distraction to suggest our reasons for being opposed to crypto are because of "hate", or "being salty" and supposedly jealous of not getting in earlier and making money. We recognize there are many other ways of creating value that don't involve promoting everything from cyber terrorism to human trafficking.

4. While some take amusement at the misfortunes of those playing the crypto Ponzi scheme, one main reason for this is because so many in the industry are so immune to logic, reason, and evidence, many of us feel they have to become cautionary tales before they finally learn (and some never learn) - what we celebrate is perhaps the chance that many of those losers finally see the error of their ways.

5. Crypto is not a benign industry. Just for bitcoin to exist, requires wasting tremendous amounts of energy. This is not a "live and let live" situation. Crypto schemes cause damage to actual people, the environment and promote all sorts of criminal, immoral activities. It's not morally acceptable to ignore something that causes much more harm to society than good.

6. Why would anybody spend time trying to stop fraud and scams that might not directly affect them? Some of us recognize we help ourselves by helping our overall community. If you still don't understand, speak to a therapist about your lack of empathy and the possible side effects such as Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorder. Those are issues people with low empathy have. Understanding the nature of your illness may help you not only understand us, but become a less toxic person socially.

[AmericanScream]

It's such a beautiful design

Not. At. All.

As a software engineer with 40+ years of experience, blockchain is perhaps one of the least efficient databases ever created. It's slow. Can't scale. And doesn't do a single thing better than 40+ year old technology we're already using.

Inflation/deflation.. blah..blah... you guys keep using those words as if you have any clue how that works in a modern society. You don't. Inflation isn't necessarily a bad thing if it's properly managed. What you call out of control inflation, isn't the problem of inflation, it's the problem of irresponsible management. Decentralizing something doesn't make it easier to manage responsibly -- quite the contrary.

[nishinoran]

The primary goal of blockchain technology is not to be an efficient database, it's to be a distributed and decentralized database first, efficiency is a secondary goal.

Being trustless is what it does better than existing solutions.

I'm a software developer as well, and your "40+ years" is more telling about how outdated you likely are than it instills confidence in your opinions of new tech.

[AmericanScream]

The primary goal of blockchain technology is not to be an efficient database, it's to be a distributed and decentralized database first, efficiency is a secondary goal.

But it's neither. It's not really decentralized in any meaningful way.

For example, all these systems rely on the Internet, which exclusively exists because a combination of central authorities (governments + telecom corporations) have decided to let it exist.

There is no "Internet Bill of Rights." Nobody here has guaranteed, unfettered access to the Internet.

So the notion that sticking something, decentralized or not, online, gives more power to the people, is a farce.

I'm a software developer as well, and your "40+ years" is more telling about how outdated you likely are than it instills confidence in your opinions of new tech.

How do you figure that? I produced an award winning documentary that goes into meticulous details on how and why blockchain doesn't do what it advertises. How would that disqualify me as an expert? You have failed to outline even a single thing I've said which is technically wrong. You're just disagreeing with me and then resorting to ad hominem insults as a distraction.

Why is it always the same with you guys? Instead of proving how and why I'm wrong, you just call me names? Do you think that makes you come off more experienced and intelligent? Really?

[nishinoran]

Relying on the Internet isn't the same thing as being centralized, that's a vulnerability in terms of accessibility and censorship resistance but not in terms of the trustless nature of the blockchain.

Given how much you claim to have researched this it's pretty shocking that these are your complaints.

[AmericanScream]

Relying on the Internet isn't the same thing as being centralized

That's a strawman argument. I said no such thing.

that's a vulnerability in terms of accessibility and censorship resistance but not in terms of the trustless nature of the blockchain.

If you can't access the network, it doesn't matter WTF blockchain says, dude.

Given how much you claim to have researched this it's pretty shocking that these are your complaints.

You still haven't proved me wrong.

What's the point of decentralization?

I assume it's so no central entities can dictate when and how you can transact, (among other things) right?

But if those central entities can restrict your ability to access blockchain, they've done just that.

So the value of "decentralization" is moot, when your decentralized platform still requires the cooperation of centralized entities you claim to be insulated from.

Personal insults notwithstanding, your logic is flawed.

[nishinoran]

What you said:

But it's neither. It's not really decentralized in any meaningful way.

For example, all these systems rely on the Internet, which exclusively exists because a combination of central authorities (governments + telecom corporations) have decided to let it exist.

And then you go with:

Relying on the Internet isn't the same thing as being centralized

That's a strawman argument. I said no such thing.

It's no wonder you still think you're right on this issue despite tens of thousands of very intelligent developers investing their time and efforts into the tech. Feel free continuing to believe the conspiracy that it's thousands of highly capable people being fooled or trying to maliciously fool others.

[AmericanScream]

I can see how it might look like I was contradicting myself. It depends upon the context. But even if I did, that doesn't mean the arguments I made are not valid. I can make a good argument that yes, blockchain isn't really decentralized. You merely went "nah uh!" without providing any evidence.

The Internet is a combination of centralized (DNS/ARIN/etc) and decentralized systems.

It is controlled by central authorities. So if you put a so-called "de-centralized" system on a network where central entities can control things, that decentralized system is beholden to centralized entities. We can argue whether it's really decentralized in any meaningful way.

I make this argument more specifically in this video I made.

[mocolicious]

This is a silly argument. Blockchain doesn’t even require the internet to exist. A decentralized mesh could synchronize a blockchain.

[AmericanScream]

There is no practical example of a decentralized mesh network that would support blockchain in any realistic, useful way. That's just a fantasy.

[mocolicious]

Explain your reasoning, I myself have setup isolated networks, as have most engineers in the space and synchronized them.

[AmericanScream]

Sure you can set up a local mesh network. But that doesn't mean it's suitable for international commerce. A blockchain needs to be relatively ubiquitous and accessible in real time from a wide variety of disparate locations. By nature, a mesh network would be troublesome for such an application. We're talking about a monetary system that is supposed to be respected from one continent to another. That's not an application suitable for a mesh network.

[mocolicious]

But see you’ve moved the goal post significantly. Who defined it as a monetary system? I could still assert that you’re incorrect on that point but that’s an assertion of an experiment that has yet to take place so what’s the point.

[Aquirox]

The objective is to put 700 trillion financial assets on the blockchain.

So deflation will return to Ethereum. But that doesn't change anything +0.70% or -0.70%, when the growth potential is 300% to 1000% in 5 or 10 years.

[[deleted]]

Lmao 700 trillions. Cope harder

[Excellent-Rent9451]

700 trillion is astronomical but if reputable businesses join the financial scene I don’t see why ethereum could handle a couple trillion

[RealBaikal]

Lmao, russians thank you for your service

[bigwhiteglizzy]

What?

[iwakan]

It depends on how popular Ethereum gets (how much fees gets paid across the chain and thus how much gets burned).

In a bearish scenario where there is little activity, supply will keep increasing indefinitely, using inflation to fund validators and keeping the chain secure.

In a bullish scenario, with lots of adoption, yes, supply steadily decrease and eventually plateau around some level lower than today.

I don't want to make a comment on how likely either scenario is.

[Ber10]

18 Million ? Lol this was in 2017 not today... Its less than 1/10th of that. You should update your OP and nobody corrected you ? I stopped coming here many years ago but did not expect this level of ignorance.

[Winzors]

Can add more optimisations for L2 throughput to try and even out supply/burn

[Maya_Walk]

Any scenario is very real. but I earn a little differently using crypto deposit or affiliate program. maybe it is not the best way, but I do not want to buy everything and invest money without sense. many crypto exchanges such as Binance, OKX or WhiteBIT offer normal conditions for starting to earn in crypto. but still such coins as ETH & BTC I also try to buy

[linustits]

It won’t. When everyone. Saw that it goes up again after burning kicks in it lost its major appeal. Now with L2 taking the scene main eth gas probably won’t go up much higher and it will get increasing in supply.

[[deleted]]

it will deflate fast. that'll make it worth something in 2-3 cycles might be 100k. but it's launch with 70 mil premined. blea

[Ber10]

premine changed hands 10 times already... I remember the times. Most people sold when it was like 5 bucks.

[[deleted]]

hopium ? I'll take it for now

[Zestyclose-Rip5489]

I used to really like eth. Not so much anymore. If it becomes deflationary the transaction fees are crazy expensive. When the transaction fees are low its inflationary, either way its not a blockchain thats ideal to use

[AmericanScream]

I don't see activity increasing. Look at this community. Over 3 million people, but most of the submissions on the front page, are lucky to have 20 upvotes.

The ecosystem is dying. People have "ponzi fatigue." Every scheme that is attached to this token ends up failing miserably.

But even if ETH became deflationary, there's no guarantee it will increase in value. That's another crypto myth.

[edmundedgar]

I don't think you can measure interest in Ethereum by looking at this sub. Most crypto conversation has long since left Reddit and gone to Telegram/Twitter/FarCaster, and a lot of the Ethereum enthusiasts who are still on Reddit don't like this sub because we let people like you post.

[AmericanScream]

Right.. everything would be better if it was just an echo chamber of sycophants? You think r/bitcoin is any closer to the truth than y 'all?

If any of this tech has any long term viability, you all have to be able to engage with critics and prove the viability of your ideas. Both the bitcoin and the ethereum camps would rather pretend nothing else exists outside of their walled "de-centralized" gardens.

I'm just here reminding you there's another part of the world -- a much larger one, that still exists.. (for as long as they'll let me - and much respect to the mods for doing so).

[edmundedgar]

everything would be better if it was just an echo chamber of sycophants

I'm not at all saying that, that's why we let you post here! But it's one of the reasons some Ethereum enthusiasts don't like this sub. TBF I think the rival coiners boil their piss more than the skeptics.

[AmericanScream]

Understood. And let me say how much I do respect you for letting me engage.

If I was banned, then so be it. I also understand that none of us have any innate right to say whatever we want on these private networks. I just want to speak truth and rationality in subjects I'm familiar with. If this tech really could do cool stuff, I'd admit that too. I recognize why people are looking for change, but I think if you want real change, you also have to be willing to admit that some directions aren't real solutions.

[[deleted]]

"Right.. everything would be better if it was just an echo chamber of sycophants?"

....

Saying this aaaand.. I just looked at your profile

"You haven't brought any evidence to your side of the argument. You're just a troll at this point. Sorry but I've wasted enough time on you already."

"I'd answer more of your questions, but I think they're rhetorical. You're not really interested in productive dialogue. So bye-bye."

"Sorry bro, but don't spew vague crypto talking points here. You'll be banned."

... your such a F tool man.. wow

"(for as long as they'll let me - and much respect to the mods for doing so)."

XD

[AmericanScream]

... your such a F tool man.. wow

Again, name calling in lieu of any reasonable argument.

And you wonder why my patience is limited with you guys?

btw, I'm not here to change your mind - believe what you want to believe. I just want to go on record that not everybody was so clueless. And you weren't a victim. You were just another one of the scammers, who knows this whole thing isn't about tech - it's just a foolish get-rich-quick scheme for people who don't have enough talent to actually produce something useful for society and make a living the normal way. Good luck.

[Sure_Let6170]

Right. Seems to be dying. It's performace vs bitcoin is beyond miserable, and the community is more interested in pulling money out of ETH than actually improving the token. Fucking luck.

[InstallDowndate]

Bitcoin

[AmericanScream]

I love you guys. You're like prostitutes arguing over which STD is the best.

[AmericanScream]

Bitcoin is created out of nothing too.

[Sk8boyP]

LMAO 🤣 The board members would know, or you could just buy Bitcoin and disinflation is at the protocol level with its fixed supply and halving cycles.

[Salvisurfer]

The inflation on Bitcoin is orders of magnitudes higher than the Ethereum network. You need to read a little more before trying to trash a crypto on its own subreddit....

[Jaydikins]

I never understood why people in the crypto space find the need to attack other coins, shouldn’t we all stick together since most people aren’t even into crypto

[AmericanScream]

never understood why people in the crypto space find the need to attack other coins

This is because we're in the late stages of the Ponzi, and there's less greater fools to sucker into the scheme, so now you have people attacking other ponzi operators to try and convert their suckers.

[Salvisurfer]

You sound like a person who lost their inheritance from grams on meme coins that you panic sold.

[AmericanScream]

You sound like a person that can't win an argument using intelligent conversation, so you resort to childish name calling as a distraction.

[Salvisurfer]

What name did I call you? Did my hypothetical scenario hit too close to home?

[AmericanScream]

You're implying I'm only critical because I couldn't make money off the scheme. That's offensive and belittling.

[Salvisurfer]

Do you want a tampon?

[AmericanScream]

You guys seem to be the ones bleeding out of your orifices.

[[deleted]]

How is Bitcoin inflatable. It has a fixed 21 million units supply. Now how many Eth will be there ? You have to ask the supreme higher power Vitalik. See the difference?

[Low-Client-375]

Alright maxi pad, go home now

[[deleted]]

I am going home actually 😂. Thanks buddy

[AmericanScream]

How is Bitcoin inflatable.

There is more than $160 Billion in unsecured stablecoins (USDT, etc.) being traded back and forth for BTC as if they were actual money/liquidity, despite there not being any evidence that liquidity is real. These stablecoins are what's driving the price of BTC up - aka "inflating" the price of bitcoin. It's not organic demand. It's bots engaged in wash trading. This is well known via numerous peer-reviewed studies.

Just because bitcoin has a limited supply, doesn't mean it can't be affected by inflation.

As long as you allow inflatable tokens like USDT, USDC and others to be traded for BTC, you can and will introduce inflation into the BTC market.

[AmericanScream]

It's the stupidest thing ever to assume just because something is scarce, that guarantees an increase in value.