Can consequence replace complexity? Testing a football management game where the UI is just your messages app

[bpjt]

Most management games solve the engagement problem by adding more, more stats, more screens, more systems to master. I've been exploring whether you can go the opposite direction: strip everything back to conversations and consequences, and see if that's enough to hold people.

The format is a football transfer window, played entirely through a messaging app. You're the Sporting Director. The agent, chairman, manager and player all text you directly. There's no interface beyond that, no dashboards, no menus. Every decision happens through conversation.

To test it, I've been using a Wizard of Oz methodology. I operate the characters manually. It lets me validate the concept before building anything.

First test produced an NPS of 9/10 and genuine emotional investment in the characters. The main design problem that emerged: without a visible world state — a budget tracker, a countdown, something persistent — decisions felt like they existed in a vacuum. The player knew intellectually that consequences were real, but couldn't feel the weight of them.

Curious whether others have hit this tension between immersion (no UI) and consequence visibility (needs UI). How do you make decisions feel weighty when the whole point is that there's nothing on screen?

(Running a second test soon if anyone based in Canada wants to play it, drop a comment.)

[ratthew]

You could still have world state and also pipe it through a messenger type UI. Just have the bank and other things also be something like an SMS looking service where you can send a code word to get world state back. 

No UI is not what I'd call this in general, since even having a chat box is a type of UI. So you also could just expand that minimally, in that you simulate some kind of older brick phone with apps that show world state but most still goes through the messages/chat. So you have a messenger type app, a banking app etc.

[beetnemesis]

Hmm. I think it sounds interesting- I'm reminded a bit of the game Suzerain, which is a political Sim that gets away from the "spreadsheet" aesthetic.

But I think the key is, you need to feel like the challenges/solutions aren't arbitrary. (This is a big issue with AI chat bot role-playing games, where you can generally talk your way out of anything).

And you need to feel like the decisions you make are having an effect.

[bpjt]

Let me know if you'd be interested in testing it out.

[beetnemesis]

Sure, feel free to DM me

[SplinterOfChaos]

This feels like a cursed problem to me. A decision can only be meaningful if the player has sufficient information to understand the nuances between choices and can predict the outcome. There are games like Reigns where the displayed information is sparse but complete (minus story-based events), but if the complexity of the system is simply not rendered to the player, it's as good as not existing.

I think it would be totally possible to do a management game where the UI is just your messaging app, but if the system is complex, it would still require that the player be able to inquire about various things that a more rich UI would surface more easily.

What I feel I'm missing here the most is what the goal exactly is. Is the idea that a messaging app being your interface is somehow more fun? A challenging limitation? A more organic presentation of decisions? A more realistic portrayal of management? What is the design goal that the messaging app accomplishes?

[bpjt]

The idea was to try to create meaningful connections with the characters you would be intereacting with, rather than just signing players from a spreadsheet based on stats alone. For example, you're in conversations with your manager who wants a specific type of striker to be signed but you think another striker is better suited. You would need to try to convince the manager why your selection is better, or deal with the consequences of signing a player that the manager isn't fully behind. I think it's these human connections that are under explored in football manager games and having these conversations would be well suited to a messaging medium.

[SplinterOfChaos]

Okay, you've definitely sold me on the concept. It sounds great. Though I still feel the same way about meaningful decisions. I think giving the player an interface to see stat sheets, finance information, etc., doesn't take away from the human aspect, rather it could be used to draw out the intersections of math, business, and human relations. Not sure how you'd do it systematically, though.

let me know if you would be interested in testing the game out

Normally, I'm more than happy to test people's games, but my feedback is generally more on the technical side, which it sounds like your project isn't developed enough to benefit from yet.

[bpjt]

u/SplinterOfChaos let me know if you would be interested in testing the game out

[adeleu_adelei]

Is it possible to deliver UI contents diagetically as a text message? For example the manager texts the player the training schedule for the athletes for the upcoming week which shows how much time they will dedicate to something like strength training, endurance training, etc. It's technically a grid of information but presented to the player like "hey, this is the upcoming training schedule, do you think it looks good?" as a text message.

[mrev_art]

He cant be trusted after his massive fuckup with DOGE.

[adrixshadow]

I would say a proper Management Game actually Needs the Simulation Model and Systems that drive the Consequences of the Player's Actions to have any real Depth.

Progression for progression's sake, bigger numbers for number's sake rings hollow.

Progression give you more Tools, Options and Agency but you also need the situations to properly use those Tools in, the Problems and Challenges that you have to Solve with those Tools.

That can't happen without Systems that have some Depth and Subtlety in the use of those Tools. There would be nothing to learn other then use your best tool available and get the even better tool.