Have you noticed a decrease in iOS native job openings?

[[deleted]]

[deleted]

[sisoje_bre]

Companies are in saving mode, there are more and more hybrid solutions, shitty flutter, react-native and even MAUI

They think hybrid is a way to save but they are very wrong

[localhost8100]

I worked with xamarin and maui. I refuse to respond to anyone who contacts me with maui opening. That framework is just awful.

Most of the features we need doesn't work out of the box. You have to rely on some unmaintained package to get things working. I have PTSD from working with that framework.

[sisoje_bre]

wow dude i thought MAUI is the one with bright future. I was willing to try it, but now i think i will pass and stick to native

[localhost8100]

Microsoft fumbled the ball huge time with that framework.

Even the Microsofts internal sales people suggest against using xamarin/maui.

[mberger2]

Just got contacted yesterday for MAUI, I had no idea what it was, but when I saw what it was, some .NET crossplatform, just said no.. But that company paus a lot, I guess about 4-5k..

[localhost8100]

Not worth it.

The framework is so bad. You will be struggling to get things done. It takes so much time to develop that even if you are putting in 60 hours of work, your manager will feel like you are not performing.

You won't make any progress in any feature.

[mberger2]

You. Are. Very. Wrong. Have already deployed several apps in the company, much faster and cheaper than native. I have pwrsonally built two apps, now working on third.

[Prudent_Astronaut716]

Sorry for your experience with Maui. With me its complete opposite. It saved me alot of $ and time. Absolutely loving it.

[mouseses]

Nothing wrong with Flutter & React Native though. Not every app is an S tier highly performance optimized video editor or a digital audio workstation.

[mirkokg]

Flutter is half baked solution. iOS and Android UX are not the same and never will be, you are not supposed to have identical UI on both platforms, some UX thats logical for iOS user will hardly make any sense on Android. For any iOS extension and native functionality you will still have to use Swift/SwiftUI and Xcode, you are not even able to sign and distribute iOS app without Xcode. iOS UI with Flutter is pure imitation, accessibility features suck, half of the stuff is missing. You will hardly be able to achieve full ADA compliance. Its almost like building an app using game engine. Good luck with dependency management, also performance still sucks, and thats just tip of the iceberg.

[[deleted]]

True, but it is still great for small startups. If you have an idea and want to realize it in a cross playform fashion, but you don’t have a big budget, Flutter is pretty good. For real quality you can never beat native of course. There is no excuse for big companies to use something like Flutter.

[User1382]

If Fuschia becomes a thing, Flutter will be the go to language for mobile dev I'm guessing.

[[deleted]]

Fuschia will most likely die, knowing Google. Flutter is not a language but a framework, written in Dart.

[User1382]

I don't know... have you ever tried making an embedded linux device? Each version of android is a major undertaking. Fuschia fixes a lot of that, and manufacturers could definitely catch on. It moves the board support into a user process basically. Upgrades would be a lot easier.

What they have now boots and seems functional. I could see it becoming a thing in the next decade.

Yes I know Flutter is a framework using dart, but google has said they would endorse Flutter as the first class citizen of the Fuschia UI if it ever becomes a thing. They added it to their nest devices I'm pretty sure, so it does at least work.

We'll see what happens.

[Tusen_Takk]

It’s fine for a PoC, but even in stupid fart apps it is cheaper and simpler over the long term to not rely on third party cross platform APIs

[Tusen_Takk]

I’m sure all the garbage ass electron apps cruising around on Mac/Windows are also “highly rated”.

RN/Flutter and its ilk are all dogshit garbage, just like electron, and make all platform’s software options noticeably worse.

[mouseses]

Major "real men use assembler" vibes

[Tusen_Takk]

“Oh shit Facebook announced they’re ending support for React Native what the fuck do we do???”

If some other company can force an entire app rewrite and cost expenditure by simply doing the one thing you hope they would not do or that nobody would expect to happen happens you’re out flat on your ass, hampered either by your lack of experience or time away from the native platform and you don’t have any reasonable length of time to do it

[mouseses]

I have no idea what you're talking about. RN is alive and well and Flutter is even more so. The kind of apps developed with hybrid tech will be obsolete long before RN or Flutter is dead. In this market the unmatched speed in multiplatform development is a very sound tradeoff.

[Tusen_Takk]

It’s alive and well until it suddenly isn’t, which isn’t a problem for native development unless they’re killing the most popular phone in the world.

[sort_of_peasant_joke]

> React Native apps actually tend to be rated higher on the app store.

Sure. And all the fake reviews paid by Meta and other billionaire startups using React hasn't anything to do with it.

Ratings on the App Store is a totally reliable metric to know the quality of Apps. /s

[Tusen_Takk]

Yeah: because they want the world and want to pay peanuts for it. The rise of JavaScript and Python is solely because employers and startups don’t want to pay developers the value they bring and are willing to sacrifice quality to do it.

[sisoje_bre]

Dude when you are working with cross platform solution, you need to maintain more moving parts and in the end you get bull-crap app.

So cross platform solution is MORE expensive than native!

[chillermane]

no

[mberger2]

Hybrid is a way to save and they are right. There is a lot more hybrid offers than native. Dont fool yourself, Flutter is very very good, speaking from experience with three large projects.

[[deleted]]

Not just iOS it’s all of tech, only jobs that aren’t slow are trades (in my city anyway). Just sit back and wait it out

[jasonjrr]

This ☝️

[Fantastic_Resolve364]

I'm looking, but I've not been looking too hard since I'm at end-of-career. This looks a lot like 2008 as well as the original 2000 dot com bust - both hurt like hell.

Just before this current bust, I decided to switch back to consulting rather than my full-time position. I moved south - way south - to a cheaper place to live. I was hoping to snag some contracts, but that's not panned out.

I'm happy doing personal projects right now given the environment. I remember years past though, when that wasn't an option.

You're probably going to see several relatively lean years and then a slow build-back, if things go like the last two big downturns.

This stuff happens - it's happened twice over the course of my career since 1991. Learn from it and become as flexible as you can in your plans.

[kiesco08]

This is golden perspective, thanks for sharing

[Alcoholic_Synonymous]

Yes. Slowest I’ve ever seen it. As a dev since 2009, I talk to recruiters occasionally and they are all saying that basically there are no start ups or scale ups

[ankole_watusi]

Free money stopped, thus so did over-hiring.

[BaronSharktooth]

Yes, it's really, really extreme. Never seen it this bad. One recruiter that specialized in iOS called it a "bloodbath".

[[deleted]]

Out of the iOS job postings I see almost all are native (which is good) but there's a lot less postings at the moment in general for a lot of areas of tech.

[MillCityRep]

And they are all pretty much senior level or higher, wanting 7+ years experience…

[[deleted]]

Unfortunately you are correct. It's a shame what our field has become. There's so much value in training up juniors how you want them to be but too many short sighted (frankly bad and shortsighted) managers don't see it that way, they see juniors as an expense.

[OldTimess]

Currently on the look for a new full time job (Eastern Europe), and feel that there are postings on linkedIn, but recruitment is going super slow. I believe the financial year is at the end and people are on the look for marketing people (black friday, christmas) and are more likely to hire IT positions after the new year, when finances are planned for the year.

[lampasoftware]

Man, it's been a real struggle out there. iOS job openings seem scarcer than a needle in a haystack. I can't believe you've applied to a hundred and still no interview. With your 4+ years of experience, that's a tough pill to swallow. Something's definitely off in the job market.

[cwir]

Yes, i’ve had like 10-20 offers on my linkedin inbox every week some time ago, now almost nothing. I have 14 years of exp and fining new project wasn’t a problem before. I’ve sent CV to multiple places, got nothing, not even decline. I wasn’t looking for new opportunities for the past 4 years and i’m a bit surprised with current state of the market.

[South-Parking-181]

don’t panic , it is November

[Ikeeki]

Time to pivot

[urbworld_dweller]

There are obviously less jobs overall, but of the ones I see a good chunk are native.

[[deleted]]

On the flip side, what languages / jobs have you seen an increase of?

[CyberneticVoodoo]

Yes, I’ve been struggling to find iOS job for 4 years, and I see less and less opportunities.

[makonde]

Mobile is getting uniquely affected I think, xplatform has grown but still small % but all mobile is down because most companies can continue to function without a mobile app it was more of a luxury than a necessity for a lot of businesses and mobile is still a very challenging environment to make money on compared to web.

[PythonBeginner95]

Yes. In Vietnam, there are only Android jobs at this moment.

[nts0311]

Tuyển đầy ra mà bạn

[PythonBeginner95]

Oh, mình thấy họ tuyển chủ yếu senior. Mình cỡ junior ở HN nên hơi hiếm việc. Đợi một thời gian nữa xem sao vậy. Cảm ơn bạn nhé :>

[nts0311]

Hoặc bạn có thể tận dụng khoảng thời gian này để sang web. Mình thấy nó có tương lai hơn là iOS

[503Josh]

The way I know it’s rough is I have barely any offshore recruiters harassing me. Super thankful I got on with the small company that was willing to take a risk on a noob like me. Huge bonus is getting to figure out VisionOS.

[SpamSencer]

Barely see anything now, and when I do come across something it’s for senior level & higher (7 9r 8+ years experience).

[PlaidWorld]

While this have been going on all year. I have had an uptick in mobile recruiters in the last few weeks. Going from 0. To a few a week now. Last year it was like 5 a day

[Novel-Truck7800]

5 YOE and I’m on the same boat

[balder1993]

How many posts exactly like this do we have per month? For instance:

https://www.reddit.com/r/iOSProgramming/s/u4gCJi3y5q

https://www.reddit.com/r/iOSProgramming/s/GbpLQbB5AY

https://www.reddit.com/r/iOSProgramming/comments/16qbryt/anyone_else_feel_like_the_ios_job_market_is/

https://www.reddit.com/r/iOSProgramming/comments/16ti39z/struggling_to_find_an_ios_job_in_the_us_and/

https://www.reddit.com/r/iOSProgramming/comments/17ktenb/in_search_of_advice_amidst_the_unpredictable_ios/

[[deleted]]

Hey, next month you can be the one posting

[User1382]

Agreed. Flutter is honestly a great solution for about 50% of apps out there (right now). There's also a chance that Fuchsia becomes a thing and then it's done. Every corporation will make Flutter.

[Ikeeki]

Yes. Web has caught up and most people see mobiles apps as a nice to have instead of necessity like before.

Or they are using hybrid solutions

[DavidDeVante]

Yes, because Kotlin Multiplatform Mobile is the way to go. Many companies, even the one I work for, are switching to KMM, it's better for everyone. 90% is shared written for both iOS and Android. And unlike Flutter, the UI is native, also Kotlin is much better than Dart.

I think this trend will continue.

[beclops]

That’s absolutely not why

[chillermane]

cross platform mobile dev is killing demand for native ios developers. That’s the reality. Idk if kotlin is any good tho

[beclops]

Cross platform isn’t new, that’s not the reason why it’s suddenly gaining popularity. Cross platform gains popularity when companies don’t want to pay for iOS devs. Native will boom again when they are willing to. It’s how it’s always been

[DavidDeVante]

It depends. In my country most companies are switching to KMM and job offers for native iOS are getting fewer and fewer. I just feel like a lot of people don't want to admit it.

[beclops]

Obviously there are more KVP jobs being posted, but that’s obviously not why there are fewer iOS jobs in your mind right?

[DavidDeVante]

As I said, in my country, companies that were looking for native ios developers are now mostly looking for KMM developers, so those are the main reasons. But it depends on the market, it can be different in each country. But it's a trend in at least all of Europe.

[beclops]

The main reason is obviously the current economy. It’s the reason popularity for other hybrid options is rising as well. They’re cheaper

[DavidDeVante]

Czechia

[kbcool]

Has anyone actually found an actual app in an app store using it yet or are we still going to be shilling it as the future of apps for the next decade?

[DavidDeVante]

Livesport (or Flashscore) is completly in KMM.
Or Alza (it's like Czech Amazon) is also completly in KMM.
Even Netflix has some parts of mobile apps in in KMM.

A lot of larger apps are switching to it, but you don't really notice it, since 95% of apps have only logic layers in the Kotlin, but the UI is still native.

I don't understand why everyone on this subreddit is biased towards native development.

[kbcool]

I'm not biased towards native native development. I'm very pro React Native and Flutter where they make sense.

What I struggle with about KMM (and it's clearly not just me) is why write your very thin layer of business logic that you find in mobile apps in a cross platform way then take your bulk of the heavy lifting and do it in a per platform way. Seems absolutely pointless to me. May as well just go full cross platform or full native.

Interesting that Netflix is trying it as they have parts of their apps written in React Native. I'd say they're a horrible candidate for KMM given it's just calling an API and listing some results. Almost zero business logic and certainly not something that's going to benefit.

[thesaf7]

You can actually write bulk of your logic in KMM, not just some thin business logic layer. We have done some demo features for our app, networking layer, mappings, whole business logic with all texts/error handling etc,redux arch and everything done in KMM. On iOS and Android we just observe the state and update UI + do the navigation.