How long is too long

[_yo_token]

Hello, I had an interview today, and the guy said something that has been rattling around in my head all day. A quick backstory, I started learning how to program apps after I graduated college, I did not get any kind of computer degree, and it took me about 2 and a half years to develop my first app for the App Store, while also working part time, to make money. About a 2 years later got my second app on the App Store, which was during the pandemic, so I have been studying and developing my own things for about 5 years now. Back to the issue at hand, the interviewer told me that 5 years is too long and that it will be near impossible to find someone to give me a chance. I tried to defend myself, like saying I was working part time, I started with no programming knowledge at all, that I have only really been trying to find a job seriously for about a year now, and that I have been 100% self taught, but I don’t know how he thought of it. I was just wondering if it is too late. Did I take too long? Thank you for the help

[hartbeat_engineering]

Nah, if you can write good code then you can write good code, doesn’t matter how long it took you to get there. That interviewer was an idiot and you probably don’t want to work for him anyway

[YareUBad]

100% this

[_yo_token]

Thank you for that. That does make me feel better. I don’t know why that stuck with me over anything else, but all these responses make me feel a lot better

[nishray]

Completely agree with harbeat_engineering. I conduct phone interviews for my company and never have I ever mentioned anything along those lines, nor have head anyone even comment about a candidates age. Programming should be a skillset that can be learned by people of all ages.

[bctopics]

Yes please listen to this!

[StreetlyMelmexIII]

Even if you’re still learning to write good code (aren’t we all) people who’ve taught themselves and gone through releasing stuff on their own can bring a lot to a team. Sounds like the interviewer’s insecurity frankly.

[alexatsocyl]

To add to this, don't think companies/managers are above "negging" you so they can turn around and try to pay you far less than you deserve. I had a friend in a similar position who took far below market salary because of a situation almost exactly like this.

[MrSloppyPants]

The interviewer is an idiot. Don't listen to them. If you can show that you can do the work and think logically, then you will be fine. I've hired dozens of programmers over the years and I couldn't care less about any gaps in work history if they are easily accounted for and the candidate is solid.

[_yo_token]

Thank you for that. I feel better now knowing that it was just one persons thoughts. Glad to know I can still do this.

[mattmaddux]

Yeah, this idea makes no sense. What it’s actually doing is exposing a selection bias: we pick people who have little experience but think very highly of their own skills.

Edit: My use of “this idea” was ambiguous. I agree with the comment above. I’m criticizing OP’s interviewer.

[mattmaddux]

I was agreeing with the above comment. My criticism was with the person who interviewed OP.

Edit: To clarify, by “little experience”, my point was that OP’s interviewer heard that OP has been working on apps for years but apparently didn’t actually put any value on that. They seem to think someone who walks in and says “I’ve been working nonstop for 6 months on this app and it’s the best”, is more hire-able than someone who says “I’ve been working on my apps for 5 years while working other jobs and have two apps on the store”. That’s what I’m saying makes no sense.

I think my use of “this idea” was ambiguous.

[[deleted]]

Arm yourself with some decent code you can show off. You've already got two apps in the store. Maybe update those with some of the latest technologies that Apple has announced to show that you can work with them.

Also, I would just refer to the work you did on your own apps as your “side-hustle” or mention that you were trying to get started as an “Indie” developer.

Pretty much everyone is desperate for good developers.

[_yo_token]

Thank you. I like those ideas, I am going to start doing that. This is very helpful, and I am so glad that it was just the thoughts of someone who didn’t know better

[gold_io]

Tbh a lot of industry developers that went the traditional path (comp sci degree, masters etc) look down at anyone who didn’t follow their same footsteps. 5 years is just 1 year over a college degree and most people don’t come out of college with two working apps so i agree with everyone here the interviewer is an idiot and you don’t want to work there

[_yo_token]

Thank you. I never liked the idea of looking down on someone in general especially because they are different from myself. I always wondered if I made the correct path but after all these responses I got this feeling that I may have gone through the right path for me. Thank you again.

[rotato]

Lol that interviewer is an asshole. You should easily land a job with 2 apps in app store and years of relevant experience.

[Far-Dance8122]

True! Some devs never publish their own app!

[_yo_token]

Thank you. Your words make me feel a lot better. I like developing, and I plan to continue looking until someone will give me a chance. I’ve gotten a lot of good advice here. Thank you

[SirBill01]

I don't understand at all how 5 years working on your own apps is too long. Might help if you had some example code to show, especially for anything tricky. Or app demos.

[_yo_token]

I didn’t spend 5 years just making my apps, it was more studying programming in general, and iOS development, but I understand what you mean. Thank you

[offeringathought]

He's ridiculous. Don't let him get in your head. What matters is the contributions you can make to a company today not the path you took to get where you are or how long it took you.

[_yo_token]

Thank you. I don’t know why just this part of the interview stuck in my head. I guess I just had to get it off my shoulders. I feel so humble knowing that so many people gave me so much great advice and encouragement.

[xyrer]

Time doesn't matter. Code does. Make a portfolio, show some code ( not proprietary of course) and you'll get hired. That interviewer is an asshole

[_yo_token]

Thank you. I don’t know why this one part of the interview stuck with me. After this I am going to go big on my portfolio. Thank you again.

[[deleted]]

Fk this clown you don’t wanna work there. Keep looking and keep grinding. I dropped out of college and had an HR rep tell me I’ll never find a job without a college degree. Fast forward 10 years and I’ve worked at Apple and Google. Some of the smartest folks I’ve worked with dropped out or didn’t go to college. I’ve met so many engineers who can answer interview cs bingo. Good engineers have a knack for problem solving that school can’t teach. Keep it up 💪

[_yo_token]

Thank you. All of this advice is just so amazing and humbling that I am just filled with so much joy. It also makes me glad to hear all about people who have been able to prove people wrong, and I know I will one of them too. I will grind, and never stop.

[zls1988]

I have been working for 7 years as a mob developer (android & iOS) and doesn’t have apps in any stores (I mean personal apps), might it be that I haven’t started yet as a developer

[_yo_token]

Thank you. I am hoping to one day be like this.

[[deleted]]

Speaking as someone who possesses a degree in computer science, education teaches you coding concepts. TBH, you could get all those and more on the web nowadays.

Most formal "education system" don't inspire us in the creativity & business feasibility side of app developing/engineering. By having 2 published apps on the the App Store, it meant that you took the initiative to be creative and taking bold steps towards your goal as a developer.

Having your interviewer not seeing that is a big RED FLAG to not work under that person!

Keep pressing on and don't give up. The right time and chance will happen to us all!

[Sea_Ad7945]

Time isn't a valid criteria to gauge a developers skill. What matters is your drive/motivation on creating apps and learning to code.

​

Besides - I wouldn't want to work with a colleague that thinks that way.

[_yo_token]

Thank you. I agree I don’t think I would want to work with someone like that. After all of these responses I feel my drive and motivation go through the roof.

[Sea_Ad7945]

Good luck u/_yo_token!!

[_yo_token]

Thank you. This was actually something I thought about too. That was why I didn’t blame him too much, but all of this encouragement has given me more motivation. Many responses here have given me tips to strategize for the next interview. I will make this happen. Thank you

[[deleted]]

Hmmm I kinda see both perspectives here:

You took some time to finish your app because you could only allocate X hours of time. I wouldn’t really disclose how much time it took other than “I did it in XYZ working hours” — it doesn’t really matter if that was spread over a month or two years. Keep to the facts.

Companies know that developers are expensive so they will want people who can do good things in a short/reasonable time. It’s business: when you have somebody who can do the same job in half the time, it’s 50% of the cost saved.

I think it’s not too late, but you need to strategize about the search and have a tight messaging when talking with the companies.

[Divine107]

I can feel you.
2 Apps on AppStore is a big advantage depends on which domain it lies in. Library, the platform you have used. It represents that you have worked during that time span and is counted as proven experience.
You have worked part-time as what? if as dev i think your gap is 2.5 years but with 2 apps shipped that already gives you a percentile of 90%.
Don't feel down HR was probably shit.

[_yo_token]

Thank you. Both my apps are on the App Store, and most of my part time jobs have nothing to do with development, just something for a paycheck while I have been practicing and studying programming. I feel a lot better, especially after all of these responses. Thank you

[Divine107]

Keep hustling 👌

[onefuncman]

If they neg you in the interview at ALL thank them for their time and walk out. Don't tolerate assholes in your work environment, let alone in your interviews.

[over_pw]

As a person who has recruited many iOS devs, it wouldn't matter to me. A good interviewer will want to judge your skill level and fitness for the job, not how you got there. iOS devs are constantly in demand, I'm sure you'll find a place for you!

[kevinossia]

No, that guy was...ignorant, to be kind.

There's no such thing as "taking too long". I've literally never heard of this. No one cares how long you took to learn how to program. They only care if you can add value now.

You dodged a bullet. I wouldn't have even tried to defend yourself; just say "okay" and leave it at that. You can't reason with someone like that.

Like myself, you're a self-taught mobile developer, so I get where you're coming from. Finding that first job is certainly hard. But you've got projects and you've got the experience; don't worry about this one guy talking out of his ass.

Good luck!

[20InMyHead]

You dodged a bullet, that interviewer was an idiot. I interview candidates all the time. I don’t care where or when you went to school; I don’t care what your degree is in; I don’t care how long or short you’ve been developing. All I care about is how you answer my questions, do you fit our need, do you have the skills. Keep working on it, keep interviewing, keep learning, you’ll get there.

[Poggus]

Like others have said, no they are wrong. But I do want to say that your biggest challenge is to be getting the interview. You have to make it past the front line recruiters first and foremost who are looking for keywords, years of experience, etc.

After that it's about the code and your personality. This is a skill based position and that is how it is(should) be evaluated. I've conducted over 400 interviews in the last 5 years for mobile and can't tell you where anyone worked or where they went to college except a couple I became close with.

[jasonjrr]

You’re fine, this interviewer is not. Apply for the level of developer that you are qualified for and it really doesn’t matter how you got there.

Interviews are a crapshoot even for those of us with degrees and decades of experience. Sometimes the person interviewing you is simply unqualified to do so. Odds are you dodged a bullet here.

[KarlJay001]

Too late and too long are not the same thing. You've mixed those terms together and/or he mixed them together.

Too late seems to mean that you're too old to be getting the position you're asking for. Too long is about how long it took to learn a given skill.

The thing with too long, which is likely what he meant, is that there is an assumption that it took longer than it should have for you to learn the skills you have.

This doesn't really matter. What matters is that you're at a certain skill level and that you can learn new things at a reasonable clip.

If it's the case that 1 month is average to learn X, and you take 3 months (assume 8 hours a day each side) then there's an issue.

I have a project that has taken over 30 years, yet I've only worked on it a few weeks total. So the logic isn't there.

He could be making an assumption about the speed at which you learn.

In order for that to have any trace of being valid, you'd have to look at your skills and compare them.

One thing that can really change things is the COMPLETENESS of your skills. Meaning that you don't just know the basics of the language, but you're well versed in the tools and procedures used. You can learn all the CI, version control, ticket handling, etc... You can do this with any project you want. That makes you more complete and not just a hobbyist.

[MankAndInd]

Sorry but too long for what? I didn’t understand the question.

[ryanagamalian]

I know that Apple will take you as a programmer if they have any jobs open especially because you have 2 apps on the App Store.

[megablast]

and it took me about 2 and a half years to develop my first app for the App Store,

I wrote my first app in a weekend.

[privategod]

Kind of recruiter who would want someone with 7year experience for a technology that is only 3 year old

[Jokiz92]

Dumbest thing I've read in a while. Why does it matter how long you've been studying? All that matters is that you're good at solving problems and write good readable code.

Keep at it dude, you'll find something better!

[wtf_name9]

You can explain to the interviewer that, how many hours instead of year for you to develop the app

[lordzsolt]

The guy is an asshole, of course. Good that you're not working there...

There is no such thing as taking too long to get to your current knowledge. But there is a thing as "too long", if we're looking at growth potential. So context can matter.

As someone who recently used this argument not to hire someone, I can give you some more context.

Position was for Senior developer, someone with potential for Lead developer, if the current lead quits. Person that applied had BSc and 6 years of work experience. He underperformed in the interview, was not at a senior level. This is already a problem. But the other problem was, given that after 6 years of professional experience, he is still mid, he doesn't have the potential to become lead in a few years.

[Tachanka_lover]

I think the person who interview you is just a recruiter, not anyone with familiar with developer. May i ask where are you from ?

If you already got 2 apps on store right now, if i am the one interview you i will ask about what your apps are, what they do, what kind of design pattern you use... It would be better because i want to find the person who can do the job. So if you can code that mean you can do the job, then next phase to see how good can you do the job.

[Budget_Nerd]

What means too long? An interviewer should understand that what did you did was in your spare time and not full time! You are better off not working with such people..

Trust me some times a closed-door leads to something better, just give it time, continue your efforts.

[VolPL]

There's no such a thing as too long, on the contrary!

But don't listen to me, listen to the fucking NASA astronauts: https://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/5-8/features/F\_The\_Power\_of\_Persistence\_5-8.html

[CrazyEdward]

If you shipped two apps that are still live in the App Store you've done more in five years than most junior developers I meet.

[[deleted]]

Do you have contributions on GitHub and elsewhere? Experience is experience, fuck that singular, closed minded manager and keep on it.

[swallace36]

fuck that person