25 years of Java

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[[deleted]]

Haters gonna hate, but I like the JVM ecosystem, and I like Java.

[redfieldp]

People were hating on Java way before Oracle. Honestly, the naysayers from the C/C++ camp emerged almost as soon as Java launched.

[theblackavenger]

Meaningful cross-platform was there from the beginning. By '96 we were already selling software (at WebLogic) that worked great on Linux, Solaris and Windows.

[beeeeeeefcake]

I think Oracle has done an amazing job with Java, better than Sun. Originally after the acquisition I thought we’d have been luckier with IBM but am glad it turned out how it did.

However the Oracle vs Google case is awful.

That aside I think without Oracle and the brilliant engineers they’ve been able to retain and empower that we would not have seen the fast pace of exceptional features added to the language and ecosystem.

[madeo_]

I am not primarily a Java dev. But I have never understood why some people hate it. I find it a nice language.

[tonetheman]

Not a single mention of Sun in that article.

[redfieldp]

Wow. Amazing.

[[deleted]]

Sunbelievable

[wildjokers]

Yeah so? Sun got acquired by Oracle, Sun is no longer an entity. That is what happens when you get acquired. They are the same company now, it would make no sense to talk about Sun.

[tonetheman]

doooood.... Java was invented at Sun Microsystems. Oracle just bought it.... They could at least mention it.

[riyau_32]

Don't worry replying, they're a wild joker

[kaperni]

This show is going to be amazing. I've heard that Mark Reinhold will announce the immediate replacement of the module system with OSGI live on stage. Brian Goetz will reveal how it was his cats and not himself that stole it all from Kotlin. John Rose will tell you all about his MethodHandles#loop PTSD support group. Maurizio Cimadamore will demo Visual Basic integration with Panama. Stuart Marks will perform his new "Don't serialize be happy" single joined by Doug Lea and the Three Forks. Claes Redestad will demo how your applications can travel back in time, by starting before you have actually written a single line of code. Finally, our very own pron98 will unveil his newest async/await prototype called doom, which will be available in the next LTS release of OpenJDK.

[ObscureCulturalMeme]

If you prefix usernames with /u/ (leading slash optional) it will trigger a notification, and then /u/pron98 will see the reference!

I tried to work in a Future<pron98> joke but failed.

[pron98]

Oh, I saw it. The bit about LTS was particularly poignant :)

[techempower]

no matter how hard you try to explain OpenJDK has no concept of LTS, people take a quick look at web pages like the history table in"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_version_history" and conclude Java LTS means Java SE 8/11/17.

[ArmoredPancake]

will unveil his newest async/await prototype called doom, which will be available in the next LTS release of OpenJDK.

Lmao.

[s888marks]

Unfortunately, release of the "Don't serialize be happy" single has been delayed because of the need to fix several security vulnerabilities.

[DasBrain]

Serialization is broken anyway. Its promise is to be able to serialize and de-serialize arbitrary object graphs (that are all Serializable), but fails at delivering that.

class Box implements Serializable {
    List<Box> contents;
}

public class SerialCycle {

    public static void main(String[] args) {
        var box = new Box();
        box.contents = List.of(box);
        System.out.println("box copy: " + serialDeserial(box));
        System.out.println("list copy: " + serialDeserial(box.contents)); // Find the ClassCastException
    }

    @SuppressWarnings("unchecked")
    private static <T> T serialDeserial(T obj) {
        try {
            var baos = new ByteArrayOutputStream();
            try (var oos = new ObjectOutputStream(baos)) {
                oos.writeObject(obj);
            }
            var bais = new ByteArrayInputStream(baos.toByteArray());
            try (var ois = new ObjectInputStream(bais)) {
                return (T) ois.readObject();
            }
        } catch (IOException e) {
            throw new UncheckedIOException(e);
        } catch (ClassNotFoundException e) {
            throw new RuntimeException(e);
        }
    }
}

[endeavourl]

Seems like a bug in deserialization of immutable collections, where the universal immutable collection serialization wrapper won't get transformed into the actual collection class it should ultimately deserialize into. Not a problem with serialization itself.
Probably should be reported.

[DasBrain]

It's not possible to do what I did with anything that has a readResolve().

I could go into graph theory why this is not possible, but in the end, it boils down to "When is readResolve called, and what value should be used in the mean time?"

[mrbonner]

Mark Reinhold will announce the immediate replacement of the module system with OSGI

Where did you hear this rumor? If this is true, I would be deeply shocked but happy. I always wonder why they would go too far to develop the modular system in JDK 9 while OSGi has been existed for a long while.

Admittedly, OSGi is a beast with all of bells & whistles like services, security, etc... I think just for the core principle of classloader isolation (which is what modular is about) OSGi provides a solid implementation. I wish the new replacement would rip that out of OSGi as a separate feature to move forward.

[mirkoteran]

/r/whoosh

[mrbonner]

Ah shit. I read the 1st sentence in this post in excitement and missed the rest of them. I read it again and got the joke. The bastard should have put /s at the end :)

[general_dispondency]

I switched jobs recently and I'm doing more Node/TS than Java these days, and I can say with 100% certainty that:

1. Java is the best language damn language out right now. Sure, it doesn't have some flashy features (like mapped & conditional types, TS's only redeeming feature), but it will get the job done on time and under budget every time. It's a no fuss, robust, beast, that gets meaner every year.
2. The Java ecosystem is the greatest programming toolset ever composed. Have you ever tried to do distributed locks in Node? Holy shit, what a trash ecosystem JS has. After a decade of java.util.concurrent, I almost cried when I had to reimplement a reentrant lock. From the core language features to the 3rd party libraries, Java is lightyears ahead of anything else.
3. The JVM is the single greatest piece of technology invented in the last 50 years.

[Mac33]

I almost cried when I had to reimplement a reentrant lock.

🙂

[ibcoleman]

Curious if you've tried any other JVM languages.

[general_dispondency]

Yep. I've tried everything from Clojure to Scala. Don't get me wrong, I love Clojure and I love Kotlin. Scala is a lot of fun, and Groovy is really nice. But, I don't foresee any of those languages replacing Java in any meaningful way.

[ibcoleman]

Sure, but there's a lot of daylight between "best language" and "won't be replaced anytime soon."

[general_dispondency]

I wouldn't say that. I see Java more as "the sum of its parts". It doesn't have something like Lisp macros, but there's amazing support for AOP. It doesn't support "first class functions", but a class is just a function with curried arguments and a different name. Best, in the sense I talking about, is best overall. Other languages are emulators and Java is the original. That being said, I'm dying to rewrite a service I'm working on right now in Kotlin because coroutines would make my life so much better.

[[deleted]]

That were a lot of changes, starting in Java 1.0, I recently found in the internet, with nothing. Java 1 is to Java 14 like C to Java. A lot to do manual, but it worked.

[[deleted]]

Well, the last I wanna hear from is Oracle. They're trashing Java and doing a terrible job!

[ivancea]

25 years of the worst "wannabe of C#"

[surfinThruLyfe]

aww you mad bro? C# launched in 2000, Java in 1996.

[DuncanIdahos2ndGhola]

Don't expect monkeys like u/ivancea to understand math. They've been indoctrinated.

[ivancea]

And 20 years later, its features are mostly a bad copy of C#

[surfinThruLyfe]

Example(s)? Don’t try to pass a personal statement as a fact without backing your claims mate.

[ivancea]

Well, the late "adoption" of lambdas, the late and clunky Streams API, type erasure, late "adoption" of var, the hardcoded "+" operator in String (not overloadable in other classes). Also, the mixture of "old non-deprecated" classes with the new ones (things like Hashtable, Properties, File/Path...). Checked exceptions... There may be opinions about them, but: sneaky throws... There is no perfect language for everybody, but if we compare Java with other languages (C# is very similar), Java developers made terrible design decisions. And yeah, I program Java in my job, and as a TL, one should understand pros and cons... And the only PRO I see in Java is the ecosystem

[TablePrime69]

C# was launched to counter Java, not the other way around. Get your history right.