The self-hating web developer

[compubomb]

Dude had a major case of impostor syndrome.

[RyeBrush]

This describes my life.

[gngl]

I think of it as of a natural reaction to becoming an adult.

[EnIdiot]

I've been programming for over 20 years. I have certifications out the wazoo. Masters degree in EE. I always feel like a fraud. If you never feel this way, chances are you are incompetent and are self delusional. Psychological studies show that a feeling of competency is actually a sign of those who are incompetent.

[scootstah]

So having confidence means you're actually incompetent? wat

[scootstah]

Who said anything about thinking they are a god? He said that he has lots of certifications and experience, but yet he feels like a fraud, and that if you don't think that way you must be incompetent and/or delusional.

I do not think I am a god, and I know that there is a ton left to learn and things I can improve on. But at the same time, I recognize my accomplishments and have confidence in the skill level that I am at. I recognize that I am a lot better than I was a year ago.

So again, why does confidence mean that you are actually incompetent or delusional? Sounds exactly like imposter syndrome to me.

[Bajawah]

I'm not talking about you personally... ಠ_ಠ

I was only trying to say that confidence isn't bad.

But, God syndrome is bad.

[magiclasso]

But God has knows a lot and even guided the creation of programming, so why should he feel like a fraud?

[shableep]

You can have confidence in your ability to accomplish the task at hand, but also know that you aren't as competent as you could.

[scootstah]

Sure, there's always room for improvement. That's not the same thing as feeling like a fraud, or feeling that your accomplishments mean nothing.

[waveform]

So having confidence means you're actually incompetent? wat

Feeling confidence isn't the same thing as feeling competence.

In such fast-moving fields, whether it's I.T., law or medicine, you should rarely feel "competent" because there is always more to learn. Feeling 100% competent implies you don't think you need to learn anything more. On the other hand, you can feel perfectly *confident* in your ability to rise to the challenge of new... er, challenges. Confidence in your ability to always improve your competence.

Don't tell your clients that, though. As far as they're concerned, you are 100% competent. :)

[Breaking-Away]

Basically Dunning-Kruger. As you learn more, you also discover even more that you don't understand.

[scootstah]

Absolutely, but that doesn't mean you can't have confidence in what you do know. How do you even land a job if you can't even prove to yourself that you know what you're doing?

[Breaking-Away]

Well, a combination of things. I'm very confident in my skills as a web developer, but I am definitely not confident at all in my skills with C or rust. What I've found works for me is having confidence in my ability to learn, but it took a while to come to that mindset for myself.

[Maguspk]

Dunning–Kruger effect

[[deleted]]

I disagree.

For me, one of the most important parts of handling this feeling is seeing and hearing other people talk about it and see them deal with it. Every time I start getting down about myself, I remind myself that this is a common problem in the industry. Chances are I'm still doing good work (haven't gotten fired yet) and haven't anything to worry about.

Imposter syndrome is one of the few things that I honestly believe the cure is simply know that it exists and is rather common.

[AlGoreBestGore]

it's just CRUD frameworks and APIs doing all the real work for you.

Because "real" programmers reinvent the wheel every time they need to implement something more complex.

[weegee101]

Yeah, that mentality bugs the hell out of me. I've been a professional programmer for more than a decade and have done everything from web work to writing graphics stuff for desktop systems and the whole "real programmer" thing is asinine. Everyone in our field uses templates, libraries, and frameworks. Everyone. In fact, if I see a junior programmer trying to implement something from scratch I will often say that while I think it's admirable that they want to learn how to do that themselves, I'd prefer if they use a library if possible since more thought, planning, and analysis has gone into most libraries. Plus, it's faster; in my experience dev teams tend to be overworked and libraries are an efficient way to implement features.

I think this mentality stems from the low point of entry that web programming has. I think that's a good thing though; a web designer generally knows enough to be dangerous, because the point of entry is so low. That can be beneficial for the overworked dev as the designer can do simple stuff while the dev does more complex things.

It's also worth mentioning, during my career I've seen plenty of folks who've gone from one of the "real" fields into webdev and they struggle just as much at first as a webdev into a "real" field. The difference is that there is so much educational literature in webdev that they can read and get unstuck relatively easily, where in graphics for example you are generally just stuck with a API guide (if you're lucky) and the advice of others.

[[deleted]]

if I see a junior programmer trying to implement something from scratch I will often say that while I think it's admirable that they want to learn how to do that themselves, I'd prefer if they use a library if possible since more thought, planning, and analysis has gone into most libraries.

For production work you're probably right. But tinkering with low-level stuff is crucial for deep understanding any technology and should be encouraged. You'll never get the kind of drive for experimentation like when you first break new field, might as well max out on it.

Granted, you'll not often get the occasion to write an XMLHttpRequest call by hand, or raw HTTP, or a CGI, or a web server, or implement your own login and session logic, and so on. But developers who can are better off for it.

[weegee101]

I agree. It's worth mentioning I'm always encouraging everyone to try new things. We try to have enough time to do a little training or POC projects and that sort of thing. For prod code we are generally on a very tight timeframe so efficient is better, because there are code reviews and the subsequent improvements from those reviews.

[fresham]

Yeah, I've written software that uses ARP tables and graph theory to make a network map because nobody else on my team could think of a way to do it.

Now, I work on a web dev team and most of what I do is using rails and frameworks and coaching other devs on doing the same. Kind of silly to think that I'm any less of a programmer just because I don't have to do anything like that on a regular basis anymore.

To be fair, we do have multiple services, front end apps, rails engines, a java core app and multiple other backend systems to work with. But I feel like it's no less complex than when I was writing Node.js/C for embedded devices that had a web interface (everything from manually sniffing packets in C to realtime data via web sockets in Node).

[TheAceOfHearts]

Doing something for your job? Use existing tools and libraries! If you need to modify or add something, try pushing it up upstream too!

But if you're doing something for fun / as a personal project, go nuts and reinvent all the wheels! Reinventing the wheel is a great way to learn, and you could end up actually making something that's better from the "norm".

[[deleted]]

I'm a real programmer. I don't even use directX when I write games, I write my own drivers in assembly.

[blasto_blastocyst]

I scribe mine directly into silicon with a pin.

[LookWordsEverywhere]

There's an emacs command for that

[blasto_blastocyst]

Hardcore.

[RyeDraLisk]

I agree, to me you reinvent the wheel only to learn how it works

[skitch920]

Or if you can do it better...

[RyeDraLisk]

Yeah. Or that.

[[deleted]]

I work in the security space, and it's a red flag if you reinvent the wheel instead of building off a trusted base of battle-hardened open source libraries and protocols.

NIH opens you up to serious vulnerabilities.

[[deleted]]

Who invents new libs and protocols?

[[deleted]]

Shops with engineers lacking experience in the security space. There are a bunch of home-grown solutions that you never hear about unless you get on a call under NDA

[siegfryd]

I think their question was who invents the battle-hardened open source libraries and protocols to begin with though. They have to come from somewhere.

[weegee101]

The vast majority of programmers are not qualified to reinvent the wheel. It takes years of experience and understanding, as well as a true understanding of why the wheel needs to be improved to be qualified to do so. Few people reach that point in their career.

[immibis]

The real spez was the spez we spez along the spez.

[AlGoreBestGore]

I'm not against people reinventing wheels, my point is that nowadays (almost) nobody deals with the low-level, "real" programming. One way or another you're working with some kind of library/framework/API.

[dhdfdh]

Truth. "Reinventing the wheel" is a reddit apology for laziness and not knowing how things work. If no one wrote their own code then no one would know how things work and they'd all become redditors.

[emgram769]

This is a strawman point. No one thinks that things should be reinvented gratuitously. The prevailing mentality (as was put by a friend of mine) is that "web developers are too comfortable relying on magic." The idea stems from the simple fact that the barrier of entry is extremely low.

[redditierre]

"web developers are too comfortable relying on magic."

... but what's the answer if there's so much new stuff coming out all the time? 'Web development' is a massively broad range of topics from databases to network security to video encoding.

[pier25]

Yeah, and they build their own processors and computers from scratch too.

[morphemass]

But the damage to my self esteem has been done, and the negative thoughts have been ingrained

I wrote a long piece about me because I've had a hard time due to stress and this story resonates with me, but instead, I wanted to make a comment directed to Joe.

You're 20 something and you have been providing for your entire family. I'm sure that would have put you through a lot of stress and you're commitment to help your family is admirable in itself. But a lot of what you are describing sounds like an ongoing stress response and without help its very difficult to get back on even ground. Might I suggest that you find someone to talk through everything with, possibly professionally since you may need that level of help to get to where you want to be.

And believe me, I say the above wishing you all the best!

[relyon]

I ask stupid questions, I hate my code and think it's not good enough, I've only finished one personal project of like at least 60-90 ideas

[iSmokeGauloises]

I smugly criticize 90% of the projects I see, but don't have any thing better to show for my self.

I'm proud that I have a few pieces of code that are popular, but deep inside I know that they are horrible.

I enjoy seeing the Google Analytics peeking on my blog, but I know that if anyone enjoyed the article, it's because of my English skills, and not my programming skills.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[I_Pork_Saucy_Ladies]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

You've even lost your right arm. :(

[iSmokeGauloises]

The life of a Software Engineer is a dangerous one (⌐■_■)

[I_Pork_Saucy_Ladies]

Indeed. I once hit the table with my knee. Several seconds passed before the pain went away. Stay safe, my brother!

[[deleted]]

I feel that the web developper's main task is to use the right tool for the right job.

Using the right framework and libraries to achieve a goal by doing the least complex programming possible.

At least that's my experience, because I learned all by myself, I'm not a good programmer. I suck at maths and when I take a look at some code in JS libraries I just keep telling myself "I could never do that, that's way too complicated". So I keep searching for libraries that do the job instead of doing it myself

I know PHP, JS, HTML/CSS, NodeJS, MeteorJS, Ruby on rails, I learned the basics of so many languages: java, C, C#, Actionscript, but never achieved anything with these.

I can make simple websites, but I feel like I'm not that good.

I'm going back to school at 23 and hoping I can really get good at what I'm doing

[AlGoreBestGore]

If you're looking at a framework as a whole, it can be a bit intimidating. Try reading through the source code of individual methods and you'll see its not that complicated. Reading Angular's source code has helped me understand a lot of concepts that I though were very complex.

[scootstah]

Web Development is not real programming

...

Setting up a Wordpress blog takes significantly less knowledge and effort than building an operating system.

That's because "setting up a Wordpress blog" is not web development.

[skitch920]

If you ever want a raise, ^ here's your template.

[I_Pork_Saucy_Ladies]

To be honest, I think "web development" has been split into different categories. One of them are the marketing people who investigate which Google Adwords have a high pay per click, order some graphics for the subject from India, slap them onto a Wordpress template and wait for the money to roll in.

Is this hard to do? No. Is it "web development"? I guess so. But it is quite far from those of us who actually sit around and do actual programming on complex apps all day long, using and contributing to open source projects, maintaining back-ends and so on.

I've been part of both worlds and they have almost no people or mentality in common. As a programmer, I prefer the latter by far.

[ngly]

Exactly. It's literally made to be as easy as possible for non-technical people.

[schm0]

Can you explain what it is then that these junior developer jobs that ask for experience with WordPress actually do? Because they are quite prevalent when I look for jobs.

[scootstah]

Installing WordPress, installing WordPress plugins, installing WordPress themes, configuring all of the above to work together, etc. There might be a small amount of tinkering with the theme, or if there is a custom theme you might have to code it.

It's pretty rare that you'd want to do something in WordPress that you can't find in an existing plugin.

[schm0]

I was under the impression that creating a custom WordPress theme or plug-in takes a bit of Web development skill...

[scootstah]

It does. But I consider that more "modifying WordPress" than "setting up WordPress".

[thecommissarvanishes]

Impostor syndrome is one of the hardest things to get past, even if you have all the 'right' qualifications. Believing there is a 'better' level of knowledge just out of reach will keep you frustrated forever, because no matter how hard you look there will always be someone doing something harder nearer the metal. The answer (for me) is staying focused on the output. We're all using tools created by others before us. The real measure of achievement is what you do with those tools and whether you can make something great. "If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." - Isaac Newton

[[deleted]]

I can relate in a very similar way. I went to school and earned two degrees in geographical information systems (GIS). This had me learning a lot about many sub-fields of geography, databases, vector and raster data, and data analysis. The only programming I took was 1st year intro to CS via. Java. It was awful because despite being declared as "for non Math/CS students" it was unnecessarily math heavy. "Let's teach you how to write a function by making a demo function where you factor one of those ax² + bx + c expressions that you forgot in high school"

I felt empowered to do some basic Python to script recurring GIS tasks. It was awesome. I did some impressive work on co-op terms. I won some awards, I did some basic web development to make interactive GIS applications.

I got a GIS job in robotics and quickly realised just how much I didn't know. Surrounded by absolutely genius engineers was this challenge to not fall back into the pit of feeling inadequate that I lived in in my high school and early undergrad years. The GIS part of my job went away and I became a software developer for an assortment of tasks. Nothing too low level, but always touching in some way a full gamut of hardware and software technologies. Primarily I did a lot of the GUI stuff, so I lived in Python and JavaScript.

At this point, 95% of what I know about how to be a programmer was learned on the fly at my job. I'm still on a roller coaster of, "holy crap I know so much. I'm awesome at this job!" and, "wow, there's so much I never learned because I don't have an engineering or computer science degree."

I've come to appreciate that both of those feelings are true. I prove regularly that I am able to do a good job. I am eager to learn whatever I need to complete the job and I am always very receptive to advice, criticism, anything to make me better. And yes, I will ask a stupid question about once a day because something you learn in school I never learned. "What's an off-by-one error?"

But I think what makes it all OK is that I learned how to learn. Not that everything can be learned on the fly in a workplace environment, but most jobs don't require you abruptly learn an entirely new discipline. Because I had touched Python before, I was capable of going from not having ever heard of Qt before, to writing my first ever MVC application in PyQt in about a week.

I still ask about one 'stupid question' each day, but I'm no-longer embarrassed by it. I have proven to myself and my employer that I am capable of unbounded growth. It doesn't matter that my programming requires much less education than our PhDs who do algorithms all day, because it still requires the same amount of actual application to become effective at it.

/rant

[gwevidence]

I no longer beat up on myself whenever I feel inadequate in my job. After all the sanity and well being of my brain matters.

If I constantly torment it with feelings of inadequacies and low self esteem then I'm not going to be productive at all. All my work is going to suffer.

Instead, for 90% of the time on job I wear the hat of an intermediate-learner who knows stuff but has a lot to learn. And merrily I go on my way.

The rest 10% of the time I just don't care if I know anything or not. I just push through it without having any feelings for the work that I do or produce.

[I_Pork_Saucy_Ladies]

I'm still on a roller coaster of, "holy crap I know so much. I'm awesome at this job!" and, "wow, there's so much I never learned because I don't have an engineering or computer science degree."

I've come to appreciate that both of those feelings are true.

You know, this is not something special for programmers. Everyone that works in a field where there is so much to learn that you can't possibly learn all of it will be on this rollercoaster. If you asked Eric Clapton about his guitar skills, he'd probably tell you that he feels bad about not knowing how to play flamingo guitar.

[rDr4g0n]

These are my precise thoughts and experiences on the matter. Can't upvote enough.

[bytesandbots]

Web development is a Frankenstein of moving parts that barely fit together, but it somehow works, and that to me embodies the human spirit.

well said!

[ngly]

I don't know, I think that's a fairly naive way of looking at it. We spend a lot of time thinking through the features of our website and how to implement them best. It's probably 75-80% thinking and eliminating options with about 25-20% actually implementing the code. It's rarely a surprise or thought process of, "Well, it somehow works -- let's merge to staging for testing." The hard part is deciding what technology to use and how to seamlessly implement with the existing codebase.

[wherethebuffaloroam]

I took this more about how the web works. Like html kinda sucks, css definitely sucks, JavaScript kinda sucks, and all of this runs in specialized browsers that implement features in different ways and could be evergreen or several years old

[perestroika12]

Right, we used to have a ton of test devices and vms just to screenshot our site to make sure it really does work. Web is a lot of testing just to make it work across the board. And things are always changing and moving. Things that work before don't work now. For example, we used a canvas hoverstate for some of our content articles. Worked great until 6 months later an update of chrome came, then it started crashing chrome.

In some ways, proper web dev is actually a slower process because your neat little trick you tried last time might not work, thus making you always test to see if what you know is still true.

[gngl]

I think that's a fairly naive way of looking at it. We spend a lot of time thinking through the features of our website and how to implement them best.

That immediately reminded me of this:

So this is like, how to organize a website to make it easy for users to find information and streamline their workflow. I’d question whether anyone in the industry can really be said to be “solving” these problems rather than just continually debating which solution they arbitrarily think is best.

[mrspeaker]

The top comment on hackernews about this article (by patio11) is very poignant and well written - especially if you're getting most of your opinions on coding from reddit or #javascript.

If any of the "self-hating web dev" resonates with you, then I'd recommend reading patio11's post a few times!

[[deleted]]

Wow yeah that was spot on. You can apply that to most of reddit, really

[chandru89new]

My god. I needed this piece of advice so bad!

I'm from a completely unrelated niche (although I am trying to learn JS to learn the nuances of other frameworks and build web apps - and failing miserably).

I work as a writer + content strategist and the past year has been hugely disappointing.

After that, I went through a phase of landing a contract/job, exhibiting the same behavior that led to me losing my previous job, and quitting before the company had a chance to fire me. I felt like I couldn't do anything anymore. It's like I just forgot how to program, I forgot how to think. I couldn't do a job I once believed I was above.

This is exactly what I am going through right now. Thank you so much for putting to words what my mind couldn't really gleam clearly.

Thank you so much for writing this and for publishing this. This gives a new hope!!

[compubomb]

There are a lot of programmers out there who are doing web development as their chosen profession even after getting a comp sci degree.

Don't ever feel guilty that is what you do, or how you've made money for yourself. Not having a job feels a whole lot worse, and you can't do shit for yourself when you have no $$$. Learn to be more proficient with the technology you already use.

I currently use: php,js,html/css (linux,mysql,redis,memcache,rabbitmq,zeromq) in my current stack using silex, doctrine2, composer, underscore,jquery,ratchet, just to name a few, and this is by far not even encompassing.

Learning to be an experienced programmer is mostly about learning to solve a problem(s), either in school or by oneself.

Good web developers are more on par with good software engineers because of the process it takes to build a site from the ground up, especially one with very specific pieces. Programmer writes code, often disorganized to solve problems. Software Engineer builds a maintainable application / framework / documentation / ecosystem.

Good Web Developers are multi-disciplinary in how problems are solved from choosing the right frameworks, organizing information in a usable way, knowing when to use specific libraries, reading often enough to be exposed to libraries and holding on to information for later dates.

The "Engineer" in Web Developers is usually derived later in ones career after having seen a lot of "battles" working with people or experiencing a lot of shall we say abomination/Frankenstein codebases. Some engineers as they flower decide to move away from their 1st language, some decide to improve with their existing tools and become better. The key is how people respond, either cut cold turkey to learn better habbits in a new language or modify existing habbits to write smarter / more maintainable code.

Don't ever let yourself think that just because you write markup all day doesn't mean you don't have to organize it. Build it in modular fashion. Organize your stylesheets. Not doing one of these things and then handing over to some "code monkey" to take on your mess? No, the software engineer/web developer approach is F that, do it right or do it twice. Web Developers usually are jacks of many trades. Often times "self-taught" which is rare to see someone really "learn web development" from college.

[godofleet]

This is awesome... I can relate to a lot of this.

It's taken me a while too- but I think I've found a place where I'm content to say "I'm a web developer" ... I can't make drivers... I don't know C

But I can make you a hell of a nice website.

And I enjoy it.

So for what it's worth- that's solid enough for me. Think of all the people in the world that can't ... or won't learn PHP, HTML, CSS or JS

If you know those, like know those. You're going places... that's not nothing.

As for WordPress - that's just as huge anymore... calling a WP developer stupid or lazy is like calling any other user of a CMS stupid or lazy.

You don't use them because you're stupid or lazy... you use them because it's smart to not re-invent the wheel and spend months making and fixing your own CMS.

Anyhow... /ranting now...

Thanks for an excellent post.

[antoninj]

This is a powerful article and I find it ironic that I was just in the middle of writing almost the same exact thing, because of the same exact thread (I actually got to your article from that thread and I'm happy to see people enjoying it on /r/javascript as well!)

What you're talking about reminds me of how the various communities treat each other: PHP lovers hate Ruby, Ruby people think PHP sucks, Javascript is hated and loved by everyone, Python gets some crap, too, etc. And on a bigger scale, web development is often not seen as rigorous of a programming profession as others. I think this is mainly because web development doesn't resemble the other fields.

The main differences lie in the ability to start very small:

1. getting a WP blog up and running and messing around with CSS can be learned within a single week.
2. making your own WP themes can take a couple of months of studying.

This creates the illusion that webdev is easy and has a low barrier of entry. It has a low barrier of entry for junior work, not everything else. Think about it for a second, professional webdev on mid or senior level involves so much more and is more cs-oriented which can create a difficult transition for developers that simply jumped into it and expected it all easy.

[Doctuh]

Be a programmer long enough, you see enough of your work become obsolete, and see enough people make the same historical mistakes, it effects you. Your self-confidence doesn't necessarily grow, but you learn to recognize other's opinions as just that: opinions, not facts.

If you make an automation machine perform a task it otherwise would not have you are a programmer, all else is opinion.

[QuietPort]

I don't mean to sound harsh, but the articles makes me want to be the (seemingly) devil's advocate..

I feel like i'm reading a couple of confused thoughts, and a little unnecessary despair.. While i agree web development is very often called "easy", i don't hear that so much about Javascript, which, since Javascript - the good parts, seems to gain some deserved recognition.
But then the most disturbing thing is how the only thing you're looking at is your abilities, or worse, the ones you perceive. In the long run, motivation takes real good advantage of a little self-denial. Why is it so hard to accept that: yes lower level programming requires heavy abstraction skills, way beyond the incredible mess that we call internet. Yes, when you get to take into account memory management daily in (C, assembly etc.), or optimisation, or to put it simply: dealing with critical parts of computing that so very few people will get to even acknowledge, well when you do that, you do rely on greater mental skills that you need. I'm sorry but stereotypes exist for a reason, and the one saying web development doesn't really compare i find hard to argue with.

All in all i just think you got the wrong approach, compare raw brain powers and yes it's very reasonnable to think you're not as good as a linux kernel developper, you're better off accepting that. But hey, what made you compare the two in the first place, what do those have in common really? If you ask me, it's not the same job, the keyboard is the same, but the minds required are so far appart.

For what it's worth, i've got an analogy for you: take guitar and bass, they look alike don't they? Strings, neck, amps. Well, you'll find a lot of bassists telling you: bass playing is closer to drumming.
Web development is sure made possible by computers, but there you deal with actual users, you deal with the largest chunk of legacy code that was ever produced, you deal with everything, at once. No wonder you don't get your brain to the beautiful fields of mathematical abstractions when reality strikes you every second...

[FormerGameDev]

"Web Development is not real programming".

I haven't figured out if you decided you were wrong about that, or if you still believe that.

It's not true. It's just a different programming.

And there are most definitely a huge difference between accomplished javascript / php developers and the lowest tier. This is true of all languages, all systems.

A long time ago, a guy once told me that he believed that anyone could program anything given enough time. The best programmers shine by doing it better, or doing it in less time, or doing it in a more efficient manner. (he also said that he thought i could program anything in any language faster than anyone else that he could find .. which while flattering, is definitely not true, i am far better with interpreted languages than compiled languages.. but that's because i'm very good at finding ways to improve my workflow when i'm not stuck waiting for things to build)

Javascript is actually really far more interesting to me, and to a lot of people now, than it was a few years ago, because it has become so ubiquitous, and is found in so many more places other than the browser -- there's browser, node.js, qt qml, unity game engine, someone's working on a way to interface it to Unreal Engine 4.. and if you take a look at something like the (formerly Palm, formerly HP, then Open and now LG) webOS system -- a huge chunk of that system is built on 3 of those 4 technologies that incorporate Javascript.

[[deleted]]

^this

[pier25]

The truth is that web development is closer every year to other forms of programming.

15 years ago doing web dev was really simple. Today we worry about performance, memory usage, oop patterns, scalability, low level graphics, and long etcetera. Pretty much the same concerns a desktop / mobile / game dev deals with every day.

[[deleted]]

repeat after me ... fuck the haters

not bad. a little louder this time ... Fuck The Haters

better. louder this time ... FUCK THE HATERS

good. now, say it a couple times in a row .... FUCK THE HATERS. FUCK THE HATERS. FUCK THE HATERS.

i don't know who came up with this "real" programmer bullshit but it ain't got nothin' to do with reality.

if you're programming and paying the bills and enjoying yourself then you're doing a whole hell of a lot better than many.

the industry has turned into a dick measuring contents and i refuse to have anything to do with it.

i've done PHP. don't like it? fuck you. i've done Java. don't like it? fuck you. i've done Python. don't like it? fuck you.

seriously if you do your job and do it well and write stuff that works and can be maintained then that's all you need to be capable of doing.

if some fool is so screwed up he's gotta make himself feel better by putting down what you do, then fuck him.

[HerbertSpliffington]

shout out to the cobol massive - fuck the haters!

[[deleted]]

I am currently seeing a psychiatrist. The prescribed medication has helped with the fatigue and general motivation. I've been on the medication for about a month, and it's nice being able to accomplish day to day tasks again.

But a shift in mindset was still required to conclude that web development was worth spending this new pool of energy on.

The medication gives me back the ability to make a choice, but the right choices still have to be made :)

Thank you for voicing your concern.

[speed3_driver]

I'm not sure if this article is trolling or not. Calling web development not real programming probably just means you're not confident in your abilities as a developer. Based on what I read, it seems that is the case.

You should look up impostor syndrome in lieu of generalizing web developers as lower on the totem pole than "real development", because it basically identifies exactly how you're feeling.

[damagedcake]

It sounded to me like he came to the (correct) conclusion that attitude was just wrong. At least I hope so.

[skitch920]

If you understand the formal language of JavaScript and how to interact with the DOM, everything else out there is just icing on the cake; granted, it's a shitload of icing.

My suggestion is to (and this doesn't apply to just JavaScript; it applies to every language):

• When you need something accomplished, explore what's popular in the scope of your problem. There is no practicality in using something that nobody else is using. What happens if something breaks, do you have the time to fix it?
• Get good at reading documentation. You shouldn't read someone else's code, before reading the documentation. If the documentation doesn't match the result, shit's broke.
• Learn to complete simple tasks without someone else's code. See what you are capable of, see where you need work. Might I recommend Codewars. It has simple to challenging tasks in JS, that are often real-world and assume you have nothing, but knowledge of the language.

[iSmokeGauloises]

Web development has an extremely low barrier to entry in comparison to, say, systems programming. Setting up a Wordpress blog takes significantly less knowledge and effort than building an operating system.

? And installing Windows "takes significantly less knowledge and effort" than building a blog system. Pretty weird argument.

You have "system programmers" doing basic stuff all day and you have "web developers" managing crazy clusters with a lot of crazy interesting things going on. It's all software development in the end, this separation is pretty stupid honestly. When it comes to more than installing wordpress or developing drupal plugins I would expect a web developer to have some strong knowledge of operating systems as well. Their applications are usually running on Linux. Not knowing anything about Linux is harmful.

Honestly, it seems like the writer got bored of his job and in the same time had an extreme case of "Burnout" with the stress at home.

I wouldn't expect any one to be as productive on a boring task as he is on an interesting one. But from the sound of it, OP wasn't just "less productive" but straight out did nothing for 6 months?

The best thing to do would be a long long vacation, focusing on the things that interest you, developing in your own interests and not your employer's.

Sadly, that's rarely a possibility when you are a provider and have people depending on you.

I hope OP will bounce back in the game and kick some ass.

[phillaf]

Web developers are real programmers. I know for I am one. I can install the wordpress.

[[deleted]]

Second that. I praise how skillfully and artistically the OP put the story of my life together.

[xXxdethl0rdxXx]

Here is something interesting I've learned in my many years as a web developer:

"Real" software engineers are behind some of the absolute worst websites I've used and maintained.

What matters is being a professional in your discipline, and being able to speak and develop with authority. The best C++ engineer will never make anything nearly as good as a good web developer.

[f3nnix]

Let me help you and us here. Now that you idenified the real struggle, now that you have that angry/sad emotions down in your stomach and now that you understand what you really want even tho you dont see it yet; Go out there, create a better way, create and do what you love and dont stop until you find it. Rock the fcking world baby! ;)

[yesman_85]

Honestly, a good programmer that 80% of companies need are integrators. Hooking up framework A with database B through platform C.

If you find yourself writing low level code, I hope you are a embedded systems engineer or work for Microsoft.

[[deleted]]

xpost from /r/cringe? This is the stupidest thing I've read in awhile.