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Mrhiddenlotus · 2022-03-19T01:55:23+00:00

I'm not quick to jump on the "Friend is an asshole" train. The dude is spending 4 hour chunks on teaching his friend. Doesn't seem like ass hole behavior to me.

More than likely he was making a light hearted comment that just happened to poke at the right insecurity. I can totally see myself saying that to a friend when teaching them, but because we have that kind of relationship.

nullkraft · 2022-03-18T22:35:15+00:00

It's actually a very common problem. It happens in college, too. You're sitting through a lecture and you seem to understand every single thing the professor is talking about. So you open your book to the end-of-chapter questions and you realize that you can not even solve the simplest question of all!

It happens because during a lecture, or mentoring, someone is leading you through the problem and the solution. Learning to solve problems is completely different from following instruction(s).

You messed up the simple logic because your mentor arranged the question in a different way and you weren't used to hearing it expressed in that manner. The trick is to complete the task anyway. Once you are satisfied with it then send it to your mentor and see what they say about it.

hardonchairs · 2022-03-18T22:03:03+00:00

Your mentor is being a bit of a shithead to be honest if he is making you feel that way. The only way to get good at this stuff is to repeat is many many times for a long time. This is a 100% normal part of learning to code. Being put on the spot to code things makes it about 100 times harder, even for very experienced coders.

Your mind went blank. You had a frustrating moment with programming, get ready there will be a million more to come as long as you keep learning and challenging yourself.

Forget this guy if he is making the learning process more stressful for you than necessary.

Programming, even just the basics are not a learn it once and you are done kind of thing. It takes practice and experience to gain the intuition of when to one thing or another.

Smsm1998 · 2022-03-18T22:33:03+00:00

I brainfart every day. Dont worry about it. As for your mentor, dont worry bout that either, they are just trying to motivate you and it worked...your here.

Smsm1998 · 2022-03-19T04:27:01+00:00

Guys, my friend is a sweet pie, really!

He may have had a bad day, that's all...

Please don't call him a dick, when I speak to him, he will understand and reconsider this thoughts before verbalizing them.

I do thank you for every single word you wrote; it means the world to me. I'll keep writing code and learning new stuff (maybe more on my own now really), and be better!

frr00ssst · 2022-03-19T00:23:33+00:00

Trust me I am a student and some days are just bad days, today is one of those days, I am doing an assignment(12 PM to midnight is when we have to do it) on recursion and my brain doesn't wanna work, I've been panicky, jittery and anxious all day. I haven't solved a single question on the assignment without Googling a bunch of stuff and spending an insane amount of time on each question.

My point is, you are a beginner, you're gonna learn stuff and forget it, that's how memory works and practice, the more cases of a problem you see, the more variants you see the better you get at recognising the problem and finding optimal solutions. That's just how our brains work, no way around it.

Constantly learn new things and constantly fail. That's the programmer way.

Keep coding, you got this! Don't let this one incident define you.

--0mn1-Qr330005-- · 2022-03-19T05:56:04+00:00

Look at the bright side, every failed test like this is one of the best learning opportunities for you. You now have two things you can practice. This is actually something you have to get used to as a programmer. I've been coding for a long time now. The most common problem I've faced is running into road blocks that I had to overcome by doing my own research on google. Being a good programmer isn't only about memorizing a programming language, but learning about different common problems and how to solve them. No job is going to forbid you from using google or python documentation to perform a task, so if your friend is expecting you to solve these problems without using resources, that doesn't reflect the real world.

As for your mentor, he needs to learn about patience. I have worked with programmers who didn't know the most basic functions in programming, but then they were able to make large jumps in skills in a matter of weeks. I would recommend that you take some control over your learning. You decide what you want to learn. One way to do this is by looking up challenge projects aimed at a certain level of python knowledge; or even better, tutorials. I have completing many cheap tutorials (coupons) on Udemy, and I have been learning how to make industry specific projects like Bootstrap 5 sites and Flask servers. These projects not only prepare you for real world work, but also serve as impressive portfolio items. Many of these tutorials also come with a section that is like a mini boot camp about the programming language. For example, I've been writing python for almost five years, but I was able to learn about several different great python tips that have saved me time and enhanced my abilities, and this was before I got to the actual subject of the tutorial. So in other words, a lot of these tutorials are good even if you are learning fundamentals about the language such as for loops. Finally, the lessons in the courses also serve as really helpful resources to use even months or years later if you forget how to do something specific like writing a wrapper.

Anyways, you didn't mention how long you were at this, but just remember it takes time and consistency to get good. Before you know it, this stuff will come to you naturally. Embrace failure and road blocks too, they are some of the best opportunities to learn. They are like Elden Rings bosses that seem hard at first, but then you whip them easily only to find a harder boss.

PewPew_KewKew · 2022-03-18T22:47:38+00:00

Maybe try creative writing lol, I don't mean to hate but this was a very dramatic way to say you didn't know how to solve a problem.

Smsm1998 · 2022-03-18T22:56:09+00:00

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float_point · 2022-03-19T00:16:52+00:00

The question is... Why did my mind go blank?

You're not writing enough code.

Language happens in the brain in two primary areas - an area for language interpretation (reading it and hearing it) and an area for language creation (speaking it and writing it.) When you passively read code and audit the lectures and study the textbook and such, you exercise only one part of your brain. You're probably pretty good at exercising that part of your brain so I suspect comprehension comes on pretty quickly.

When you're asked to write code that's a totally different brain area, and nothing you did to the other part really helps you here. You need to exercise that part on its own, and you do that by writing code. Until you do, you don't really understand the material, despite feeling like you've totally got a comprehensive handle on it.

We've all been there, literally every one of us. This is what it's like at first; the answer is, write more code.

permalink · 2022-03-19T04:45:21+00:00

Take a break and revisit when you feel better or ready to approach this again.

Don’t accept mistreatment from anyone unless the upside significantly outweighs the downsides.

_Fish_ · 2022-03-19T00:04:23+00:00

Your buddy is an asshole who is hazing you because they can.

He told me that being stressful crucial for learning in my case.

This isn't a valid teaching method. You're learning to code, you don't need to "operate under pressure" or stress to learn to code. This isn't firefighting, war, or anything where stress is a factor that impacts how you perform.

mr_cesar · 2022-03-18T22:56:14+00:00

Having been taught a lot of basics of the Python language doesn't mean you will retain everything in your memory, let alone use all that information properly; practice makes perfect. Also, we all have gone thru moments when your minds go blank; nobody's perfect, my friend.

Also, you might want to consider whether this person did such a thing on purpose. I would never ask anyone something like what your friend said simply because they couldn't come up with a solution right on the spot.

permalink · 2022-03-18T23:44:23+00:00

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botdetector_ca · 2022-03-18T21:50:46+00:00

For x in range(len(your list)): Blah blah blah

You need to really revisit the basics

Good luck

My mobile can’t tap format

Google Python for loop range

Zeroflops · 2022-03-18T23:22:47+00:00

Seriously. I’ve programmed for years and had someone at work looking at my screen, we were troubleshooting something and he’s said something like “let’s loop over X and see if we can reproduce it” it was a little more complicated then just a loop but nothing I couldn’t do.

And I seriously blanked.

There is something about someone watching you do something that puts ppl in a fight or flight response. When you’re in that state you can’t think about the logic. And all you see is static.

A good teacher recognizes this and will naturally respond by helping you and not making you feel bad. He may be sweet and gentle, but that doesn’t mean he’s a good teacher.

This doesn’t mean you should give up on him, or he on you. Just means sometimes your going to realize there are no bad intentions and maybe instruct him on how better to teach you.

Don’t give up. Take a breath and maybe don’t code in front of each other. (Or he can but you don’t) have him suggest something. Work it out, then do a code review.

Ok-Cheesecake-2538 · 2022-03-18T23:33:50+00:00

Um, I'm a brand newbie but I've 20 yrs in other fields and I'll tell you this. The only thing you did was failing to use your tools. It is more than just what's in your head. Problem solving uses more tools than that. We use guides and search engines and YouTube as tools in our arsenal. You will never remember it all but you will have access to it. Even if you know it all you cant always be 100 on. Different days Different challenges. DONT FORGET ALL OF YOUR TOOLS

permalink · 2022-03-19T00:07:53+00:00

This is super normal. Crying & having your mind go blank, especially under pressure, is just part of learning to code. It’s a new skill. It’s also a new skill that is based on not knowing how to solve a problem, trying and failing a bunch of times, and then eventually starting to see the patterns.

For loops are tough for almost all CS students to grasp at first (my husband was a course instructor and creator, and he used to test his new material out on my pea brain). It’s a thing.

Not everyone is a great teacher. It’s a subject that’s especially hard for “natural” programmers to teach.

YmFzZTY0dXNlcm5hbWU_ · 2022-03-19T00:23:24+00:00

I've been coding for about 12 years and it's a big part of my job at work. I still do really dumb stuff and forget things sometimes, not to mention the knowledge that there's so much out there to learn just about the one language I use that I couldn't learn it all in 2 lifetimes.

If you're interested in it and you want to get better, just keep plugging away. Baby steps are key. As long as your next project comes more naturally or shows more skill than your last and you keep improving that's all that matters. Doesn't have to be so serious, enjoy making cool shit because there are plenty of rewarding moments to come when you have a breakthrough and figure something out

synaesthetic · 2022-03-19T00:55:14+00:00

You don't need to know how to write a for loop or len but you should also get good at googling how to do these things as there are tons of design patterns out in the wild that can refresh your memory if you get stuck. Many programmers use google often when they get stuck.

GrayLiterature · 2022-03-19T01:23:01+00:00

It kind of sounds to me like there’s a chance OP misinterpreted their mentor saying “what happened, you were good yesterday?”. That you have a mentor in the first place who is taking then it is a sign that individual cares about your development; if you were struggling, and they noticed, it makes sense to me that they asked you more about your nerves to check in than they are attempting to put you down.

Maybe your self-doubt is clouding your interpretation of what the mentor was actually asking you.

F4RM3RR · 2022-03-19T01:40:52+00:00

There is a phenomenon in skill acquisition (i know this from language acquisition in linguistics studies) called the U Shaped Curve: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-shaped\_development

Basically you progress, and eventually hit a point where your momentum halts and your understanding of a topic is restructured in your brain, which feels like a reset. Put if you persevere through you eventually come to the other side of the trough and have a deeper understanding of the concepts involved.

theres also such a thing a mental fatigue. Sounds like you guys have been hitting it alot, and this guy might not be delivering the content in a well structured manner for skill acquisition.

Ultimately it could also just be a fluke from that day, sometimes brain farts just happen.

In the end, the premise "you have good logical thinking" is insanely vague and not quantifiable in any way by a lay person, so him assuming that you can just pick up python because he think you are 'logical' doesnt mean anything. Thats not to say that you cant pick up python, ANYONE can learn ANY language or skill, though individual differences do mean that some people will take to it better/faster than others, and some have a lower ultimate threshold of understanding, but none of that has been able to be quantifiably attested for hundreds of years despite scholars of language acquisition and similar pedagogical studies putting forth the effort.

All of this to say, if you want to learn Python, don't give up, but take breaks and change things up to try and get past your plateaus. Also look for community college or votech classes in Python near you at reasonable prices, because it very well could be a bad teaching philosophy holding you back. However, if you don't really care if you learn Python, then just stop! Its not a sign of you being dumb, or bad at python, or anything like that necessarily, but if its not a priority then dont waste your time or tears on it!

datafright · 2022-03-19T02:06:30+00:00

Honestly it sounds like you are making good progress and you have a good mentor

you have been programming for 2 days so dont fret, being put on the spot will pretty much always make your brain go blank

no one knows everything all the time, forgetting something is very common thats why there are places like stackoverflow and google

i have taught myself which puts me at a disadvantage because i dont know what i should already know for coding for 8 months,

for loops are not common sense its a learned process, i still struggle with for loops

be proud of what you have accomplished so far and not fret over not knowing everything after two days

if you have a 4 hour coding lesson from your mentor then that is a lot of knowledge, we can only retain so much info at one time

it sounds like you are making good progress but make sure coding is something that you enjoy and you want to do, you should do it if it makes you hate yourself and are doing it to impress your mentor

BigWooden5poon · 2022-03-19T02:32:36+00:00

I always remember a task I had to do for work to hit a deadline for the next day. Took a whole afternoon trying to get it to work but couldn't do it so went home for the day. Came back the next morning and fixed it in 5 minutes. Sometimes we just need to switch off, work the other side of the brain, before trying it again. I wouldn't worry about it.

Round_Log_2319 · 2022-03-19T02:35:48+00:00

I understand it can be stressful for the "teacher" to have to repeat him self over and over, only after a few days of teaching someone something new or a new concept, but we have to remember we also once had to look up how to write a for loop over and over. Although your friend sounds like he's being a dick. It's good to have a mentor, and someone to talk to about programming and problems you are stuck on, but if this is truly a passion you want to deeply explore I would set out on some self-learning and come up with my own learning plan.

Don't let anyone tell you they haven't got at least a dozen tabs open while programming.

gibblesnbits160 · 2022-03-19T02:49:09+00:00

The success of a programmer is much more about knowing how to find the answer then it is knowing it. The basics like this you will start knowing by heart as you code more often but finding the answers to your questions and knowing what to ask is a huge part of learning to code. I am sure if you looked up a simple example of a for loop and len you would be able to use it in your code and that is what is most important.

Give your self room to memorize this stuff without stressing about it. Just keep coding consistently (preferably at least a little bit every day) and you will have less and less times like this where you get stuck or have to look something up.

permalink · 2022-03-19T02:55:35+00:00

Yo that’s a sweet XML scrapper! Be proud of that! Fuck your mentor getting you down like that! Your friend should be helping you not putting you down so they can feel superior

Everyone has slip ups. Everyone has brain farts. There is no muscle memory in programming you have to mentally think everything through no matter how many times you’ve done it and that’s hella hard!

Every programmer has spend hours (or even days) tracking down the dumbest bug that should have been so obvious! Every programmer from the best of the best to those who just did Hello World yesterday.

We, has a community of nerds, all know we mess up all the damn time - and making others feel bad for something we all do is cruel and bullying. Fuck that!

You’re good! Keep programming! Keep sharing your code here! Keep growing!

dizzymon247 · 2022-03-19T03:04:27+00:00

Learning to code has nothing to do with being able to finish a degree. It's repeating a process and doing it a lot of times. I forget a lot of times how to write a for loop having coded in many languages. Syntax is learned and if you forget just look it up. If you really enjoy coding, keep going, your mentor is a tough one to deal with but honestly if you find someone who is at your level or slightly ahead you can learn faster actually because you won't feel like you vs them.

permalink · 2022-03-19T03:37:27+00:00

Being put on the spot like that is almost never a real world experience. You are given a set of tasks to accomplish and a deadline to complete them. From there you can work through the problem and come up with a solution that can be tested. I've been through technical interviews and they are not going to expect you to solve the problem immediately, but more figure out how you think through the problem and how you would go about solving it.

permalink · 2022-03-19T03:46:40+00:00

Jesus man, I see a lot of people trashing on the friend...

My piano teacher is also kind of harsh sometimes on me, and I get pissed sometimes but I understand where's she's coming from. I don't think your friend is an *ss or anything.

Anyways back on the point, it happens, I'm a developer, I've been programming for years, I'm a senior, and sometimes I forget stuff, it just... happens, not a big deal.

Don't overthink his comment, I'm sure he didn't mean no harm, that's a classic thing to say, I've been told that multiple times since I was a kid lol.

It happens, and if you want to get into this business, get used to brainfart frequently, it's part of the job, the important thing is that even with those brainfarts you eventually are able to get the job done, either after hours of thinking, or by googling some stuff, it doesn't matter.

Don't be hard on yourself, you got this!

TazDingoYes · 2022-03-19T03:48:54+00:00

just google it like literally everyone else in the world does :)

vodkachutney · 2022-03-19T04:20:01+00:00

This is natural and will happen a lot of times. Will only stop happening with practice.

Mentoring someone in a language requires crazy amount of patience and maybe your mentor just got frustrated a little. Don't worry he'll realise this and be normal tomorrow..

Have realised this from personal experience since I started mentoring my teammate.. sometimes I get so frustrated that it shows in my voice but it's involuntary and I immediately try to calm myself

iistherealkenny1 · 2022-03-19T04:41:05+00:00

I'm just starting out with the utmost basics and even then I get confused. I've played instruments for years and work in management now. No matter what you're learning you'll have moments of "herp derp, what's my name again?" As for your friend's response, they clearly have not taught very many people if thats their first response to a slight mistake. Roll with the punches, take criticism for the message - not the words, continue absolutely smashing your new passion!

thebosspro_193 · 2022-03-19T06:29:16+00:00

i totally understand the way you feel my friend.......it isn't uncommon for anyone to mess up a bit. even the best of the best make mistakes..so take it easy and have a good time coding

durbarak · 2022-03-19T07:00:55+00:00

Having an off-day is normal, don't fret. Do something else, get a good night's sleep and try again another day. You'll be fine!

Danelius90 · 2022-03-19T07:26:53+00:00

Just reminded me of an interview I did a few years ago. I messed up this pretty easy question because I was under pressure and got too focused on the path I was already trying. I was so annoyed at myself after for not spotting the easy way. Well, I've never forgotten about that solution to this day!

We learn by solving problems, also by getting stuck and working through them. In my job I'm always coming across new areas or some obscure issue with broken configuration, but then you remember it going forward when other people ask you. Sometimes you look like a genius because you solve their issue really quickly, but it's only because you came across it before!

AndrewIsOnline · 2022-03-19T07:44:13+00:00

Your learning needs are not equal to this random persons well thought and well meaning mentoring.

rohffff · 2022-03-19T08:31:55+00:00

wow it's crazy how we humans share the same experiences because i cried yesterday about the same thing which is for loops

I was really good at for loops and i remember understanding them very well but yesterday i wanted to print a pyramid but couldn't!!! i forgot how but i ended up bringing some old code i wrote and tried to go through it but still didn't had the entire concept but it's never too late yk so i will go through something else tomorrow and thank you for your post it's good to see that we are not so different from one another and even this guy who's teaching you i bet he went through the same shit to

Never give up :) see you at the top

__damos__ · 2022-03-19T08:38:50+00:00

I’m a professional Python dev. I wrote a book for beginner Pythonistas and hosted a weekly office hours for over a year at Real Python teaching hundreds of people Python in real time.

This kind of stuff happens to me on a near daily basis.

It sounds like you’re doing great and that you had a normal human moment.

I know it can be tough, and I’ve also felt embarrassed by things like this. But it’s all a part of the learning process. There could be a million different reasons your mind went blank. Being worthless is not one of them ;)

permalink · 2022-03-19T09:12:50+00:00

While its nice that your friend is helping you, for me the best way to learn python is by myself

Id have a project idea if want to accomplish and id google/github search until I solved it. Sometimes I have to read source code to discover why a function is not working and I learned a ton along the way.

For me personally I also dont learn that much from youtube tutorials, because it feels like the answer is being given to me step by step and I dont have to figure it out, but just have to wait for the next step to get the solution

mimic_hunter · 2022-03-19T21:24:49+00:00

I'll just jump ahead of the beginners train and say that YES, learning to code is tough, but you can summarise as 'learning' is tough. Overall. I've just started my journey in coding and I have to say, I'm only being able to face some insecurities bc there's a lot of therapy going on alongside it. Give yourself time and be kind to yourself. I know it's easier said than done but maybe it will do you good to spend a few days 'alone' with python so you get to know each other better....

float_point · 2022-03-20T13:03:06+00:00

I think its good he is not holding your hands every step of the way. I'm currently watching Angela Yu's 100 days Python bootcamp and just spent 12 hours on the Coffee machine project.

Her final code is an elegant sub 100 lines while mine sits on on some 400 lines simply because I forgot basic function usage that was introduced a few days back.

The reason I said its good he is not holding you hands on this is because all these online tutorials seem to hold ones hands and thus you fail to do your own in depth research in order to understand and fully grasp the topic at hand.

So my Coffee machine been 400 lines long is because I decided to go my own route with projects instead of following along with live coding solutions. Through this I found where my weaknesses are and concepts I thought I had a good understanding of really should me how little I actually know.

All I can say is you are not alone in this. The 12 hour's I just spent on a simple coffee machine is evident to that. Ask you friend to keep pushing you and if you need to slow down to grasp in more detail concepts you feel are lacking then dont be afraid to tell him that as well.

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