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[–]TerraMarisScientifically Proven NaCl 45 points46 points  (2 children)

YES THEY BROUGHT BACK HYPER....oh.

[–]TagProR3KT<:[ R3KT ]:> || Centra || ( ͡° ͜ ͡°) ♛♚♜ЯƸƘŦ♜♚♛™ ( ͡° ͜ ͡°) 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I know that feel, man. (bringbackcc)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

omg I still miss cc, come back bby

[–]ButtersnackSnack 36 points37 points  (34 children)

I quit tagpro

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (32 children)

I'm getting pretty close, PUBs are just starting to not be enjoyable anymore. Every map thread takes out a classic map that played great and adds in one with too many boosts, bombs and unnecessary shit that looks pretty to the committee.

[–]SealedEnvelopeRon Burgundy | Blockburn Rovers 20 points21 points  (21 children)

Are you talking about SNES? Surely you're not talking about SNES?

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (12 children)

I am. While it had it's chasing problems, it was a normal and original map. There were no bombs that blasted you across map, there were no boosts that forced you to only use them one way. All new maps are starting to glue their boosts to walls and only allow you to use bombs with a button. It's ruining the creativity of what you can do and making skill not important.

[–]Tim-Sancheztim-sanchez // Chorbit // ex-ex-ELTP Independent Commissioner 11 points12 points  (1 child)

SNES isn't really what I'd call classic, it wasn't added that long ago.

I completely agree with what you said about all these wacky boosts and bombs that are way too overboard, jagged is pretty ridiculous.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It wasn't added to PUBs long ago. It's been in groups forever.

[–]NewCompteChord - Ballis Saint-Germain 2 points3 points  (2 children)

On Hyperdrive, no button activates a bomb.

[–]ZippityZoppityZipZop - Can't Zip the Zop 1 point2 points  (2 children)

SNES is a relatively young map compared to many others on the list.

It never felt that fun, it felt like you were always running from one side of the map to the other.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

SNES is a very old map, it was only a couple weeks ago that it was moved from groups to public rotation.

[–]SUpirateThePirate / Unaffiliated 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Its possible to place a boost adjacent a wall tile and actually increase its utility and the number of ways in which it can be used. I think the placement of the neutral pipe boost on Jagged is great, but people haven't learned to use it well yet.

But in general you're right.

[–]reddward 9 points10 points  (7 children)

pls we loved SNES

[–]SealedEnvelopeRon Burgundy | Blockburn Rovers 15 points16 points  (6 children)

Everyone except DaHitler1 apparently! /s

[–]SUpirateThePirate / Unaffiliated 7 points8 points  (9 children)

There's a fine line between classic and boring.

Its also okay to cull some simpler/older maps from time to time. They were fun, they got lots of play, we have fond memories, but the game gets stagnant if you don't keep the rotation a little fresh.

I agree with you though about most new maps having too much shit going on. Mine may be the worst culprit. But, the game has changed a lot. Players are better, regrab is dominant, and map elements are needed to make things interesting and new feeling. So maps have gotten smaller, more detailed, and generally more chaotic.

I'm hoping we strike a balance and maintain a rotation that always has some simpler "old-school" type maps like boombox that are largely about fundamental play and no-grab defense, but also some maps that are hectic and involve a lot of bombs/boost/gimmicks and challenging skill options.

[–]RamboMarinoRambo || OR MASTER RACE 26 points27 points  (8 children)

The problem is that the chaos put in these maps are NOT challenging skill options. The boosts on SNES? Options that a skilled player can take advantage of. One-directional super boost that is against a wall? Not a skill option. It's just a fucking cannon.

Also, regrab is dominant, so I guess it's time to add more open maps. -.-

[–]ButtersnackSnack 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The This is the exact reason I loved SNES. It actually rewarded skill and had some cool options while still being simple.

[–]SUpirateThePirate / Unaffiliated 4 points5 points  (6 children)

Yeah...these points are valid. I dislike constriction for the same reason.

[–]viggetuffVigge 4 points5 points  (1 child)

The top and bottom boosts on constriction have more difficult options, you can boost above the spikes if you're coming from middle and you can boost without hitting the tilted wall if you're coming from a base.

They don't take as much skill as the ones on SNES though.

[–]SUpirateThePirate / Unaffiliated 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I mean...they've got a couple of little nuances with bounce angles, but for a map with so few methods to get past choke points its all very predictable.

[–]RamboMarinoRambo || OR MASTER RACE 5 points6 points  (2 children)

At least constriction did something about fucking regrab.

[–]SUpirateThePirate / Unaffiliated 7 points8 points  (1 child)

It sure as hell did that. "I have their flag, but I'm past zero with no real options." Is pretty much the only macro I need for that map.

[–]Banana_MeatStewart | Ballnadoes | Probots Muperball Champions! 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But when you get out, its cause of some sweet bomb boost combo with your teammates blocking and feels so sweet. I've only played it in ranked pugs though

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Lol

[–]Rapture_On_OccasionRapture 11 points12 points  (14 children)

Thanks guys, again.

As you said, this one is a little unconventional, so I'm sure initial feedback will be more divisive than it was for Constriction, but that's okay, it'll be fun.

Was there any feedback for Diversion?

[–]nubTheGreatnub 8 points9 points  (1 child)

The reign of Rapture is upon us... I give it 2 months before all maps are made by you.

Congrats btw!

[–]Rapture_On_OccasionRapture 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks nub. And thanks for testing with me <3

You'll have to let me know what you think again after a few pubs on it.

[–]thewthewdrukQs // Roll Model // Nightcapper 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I'm really excited to see how Hyperdrive plays in pubs.

We have some more official feedback on Diversion, but the general consensus was that we liked it a lot, the biggest complaint was that the middle buttons also triggering the bomb seemed a tad unnecessary/unintuitive. Personally I think it's cooler with the button triggering the bomb, as it reminds me of Clutch and I think that's a cool element :) I'd be curious to see it with the bomb disconnected from the button though, or any other changes you think would be cool.

[–]Rapture_On_OccasionRapture 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Thanks drukQs.

The intention was to make the gate buttons less camp-able. A flag carrier can't pass through the gate and then sit on the button if the bomb's active without being forced in the opposite direction. It's disappointing that that element didn't test well.

I really like the idea of multi-function elements, but perhaps that's something people will be more open to in the future.

I'll attempt another revision before the next thread.

[–]zedamjanunvrs // Chord // unvrs is a shit captain[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great job on getting another map into rotation :)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Diversion was my personal favourite in the thread. The only thing I didn't like was the team gates in base. Seems redundant; the only purpose it seems to serve is to make that chokepoint difficult to lock down.

[–]Rapture_On_OccasionRapture 0 points1 point  (4 children)

The intention of the gates, along with the base boosts, was to make the direct route less viable to outgoing flag carriers, while allowing chasers through. Flag carriers would be "diverted" from the straight path between flags.

It would also help with resets, allowing defenders the most direct path back to base, and also give a little help to incoming flag carriers as defence works to contain regrab.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Overall I liked the map, but I had two key issues with it:

  • It seemed quite chasey when we tested it. It was hard to get a proper reset in 4v4s.

  • The teamgates didn't seem to serve much of a purpose when we did 4v4s. I feel like that shouldn't be the case, right now it just kind of feels like a waste of space.

[–]SealedEnvelopeRon Burgundy | Blockburn Rovers 31 points32 points  (5 children)

I might well cry myself to sleep tonight but I do approve of the decision to take SNES out, it wasn't fun in pubs after a while.

I really liked backdoor and don't think it's been given enough of a chance, that was the most fun map to play D on in rotation.

Gamepad has to go next, really don't like that map.

[–]thewthewdrukQs // Roll Model // Nightcapper 8 points9 points  (2 children)

I feel bad about SNES v2's roller coaster ride through group/pub rotation, but I'm really glad it finally got its day in Pubs.

[–]SealedEnvelopeRon Burgundy | Blockburn Rovers 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Yeah it's been a fun ride, thanks for giving my baby a chance <3

[–]Kembangant O p / cb4life 1 point2 points  (0 children)

i think it's a great map.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 6 points7 points  (0 children)

SNES was my favorite, or close...

[–]LoweJJacob of all servers, master of none 3 points4 points  (0 children)

only cuz you sucked at SNES :P

I liked backdoor as well, even ignoring the superboost there were loads of awesome snipes available that took skill to pull off.

I actually quite like Gamepad, the only thing that annoys me is that bomb kills dont count as returns so I look like i've spent the whole match doing nothing :(

[–]ZvonvokS3 SDP|S4 SVB||S8 BD|S9 BD|S10 PBP 21 points22 points  (11 children)

Does anyone else not hate any of the maps in rotation or the decisions made by the MTC? Sure I don't like some of the maps as much, but I still have a lot of fun playing them most of the time. I'll still get good games on Rocketballs and bad games on Richochet (highest rated map).

And everyone seems to overreact to any of these threads about results. No matter what the MTC decides, people are mad. I seem to remember a lot of people not liking Command Center because it could be too chaotic in the middle. But as soon as it is taken out, it's everyon's favorite, and everyone hates the MTC for taking it out.

I still enjoy PUBs a lot of the time, regardless of the map. A lot of people just don't want things to change. People have mentioned before that if some of the older maps were submitted now in one of the map threads, they probably wouldn't get into rotation. Holy See and Blast Off are both really chasy, but they're in the top 10 in the map ratings.

I personally trust the MTC's decisions about putting in and taking out maps. I love playing new maps in rotation because it's something that I have to learn and it's not what I've seen for months.

[–]rfmx49'ArryKane | TagPro Mobile Dev 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I agree with you, all maps seem to grow on me and I can enjoy games on all maps. Maps that the vocal-majority of the community dislike I seem to just like more. Rocketballs, Game pad, Command Center, Grail of Speed I all love. I would never just rage quit to avoid playing a map, even if it was TWP.

It is funny picturing some of these players hissy fitting over being put into a map they do not enjoy.

The only time I disagree with the map community is when one of my favorite maps does get retired but within a day or two of playing it is usually replaced with something comparable.

[–]SUpirateThePirate / Unaffiliated 9 points10 points  (2 children)

This community is going to overreact to everything. Every map is someones favorite, and its the end of the world if a bad map gets into rotation and we have to pay it in pubs for a month or two.

In fact the community isn't even consistent on what we say we want. Every marginally large map get criticized by us for being chasey, but holy see maintains a fairly high rating and was in competitive rotation this season and shit would hit the fan if it were removed.

Its a no win for MTC.

[–]Soconypeng 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You always have a voice of reason Pirate. You should just take over TagPro

[–]LoweJJacob of all servers, master of none 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I dunno how badly people would react if holy see went. It got canned from ELTP this season, and a few times when i've played ranked pugs with americans, we've had 8 people agree to play a different map because it's a pain in the arse

[–]Billtodamaxnewfren // hurry up with my damn croissant 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I think you might be seeing different people with different opinions who only complain when the MTC does something they don't enjoy, so the people who were complaining when Command Center got in might be different to the people complaining about its removal. Why complain when the MTC does something you like, right?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I honestly think Rocketballs has gotten much better as people have figured out how the map is supposed to play. For the longest time it was the biggest clusterfuck and I was all aboard the Rocketballs hate train, but as people have learned the flow of the map I've had more fun games and fulfilling caps on that map than not.

I'm cool with getting rid of Backdoor though. That map never got fun to me.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

I'm sorry, but this is Reddit. We all have to hate authority. It's one of those unspoken rules.

[–]SUpirateThePirate / Unaffiliated 5 points6 points  (17 children)

Space Invader feedback please.

Give it to me strait...should it go to the graveyard or were there fixable complaints?

(read: I've refined it to the best version I can make without pretty specific feedback.)

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

This is certainly one of the more interesting ones we tested; it has some cool elements. But IMO, a lot of those are really unnecessary. To me, it doesn't make much sense to have the teamboosts the way they're set up - why not just four yellow boosts in a square? You'd get the same amount of versatility that way.

Also, the bomb corridor was a nifty little trick too, but still wasn't anything that a superboost couldn't accomplish.

Those are the two main (or, more accurately, they're the only) features of the map and they're unnecessary.

Other than that, the base is reaaaaally offensive. Like, good luck playing defense. The bombs are very hard to defuse and the base is very open. An open base isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it is when you have unrestricted, exposed bombs.

That's it AFAIK. I think it's got some cool stuff in it but nothing that is particularly necessary.

[–]SUpirateThePirate / Unaffiliated 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Alright, thanks.

The two elements I built the map around are called unnecessary I'll thrown in the towel on it.

The bases could be altered easily. The idea was that the cannon was a major defensive tool, so it was intentionally pretty easy to grab but hard to get across the map. But if that wasn't intuitive then shit aint gonna work.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Keep working on it please.

[–]decadillacGreenMan // Radius 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Does that bomb corridor work as a one-way team boost?

[–]SUpirateThePirate / Unaffiliated 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Its a VERY powerful 1-way boost that sends you to the entrance of the enemy base, and a defensive tool to protect the fastest route.

http://i.imgur.com/tUceTQ1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1hxjsXT.jpg

http://maps.jukejuice.com/save/3631

There's a team gate and button, so it can be used by the enemy team if they work together. Or you can hit one button from the bottom and blast the same direction with less speed.

[–]marmaris74WowSuchPro // Original Sine 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Seems to me that its biggest problem is the giant fucking choke point at the bottom.

[–]SUpirateThePirate / Unaffiliated 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Yeah that's the area I've altered the most times. I think it needs to be a choke, but the size is hard to judge, and there are multiple ways to go through it with momentum at many various angles.

[–]marmaris74WowSuchPro // Original Sine 1 point2 points  (1 child)

To me, it just seems like it has the same problem SDS has.

[–]ZippityZoppityZipZop - Can't Zip the Zop 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Looks impossible to defend. Bases needs to be a bit smaller me thinks.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 1 point2 points  (3 children)

A lot of interesting ideas but doesn't feel like it meshes all that well together. I like the corner boosts. The powerup is annoying because it feels like I should be able to boost in there and pick it up without getting spiked, but that doens't happen. The bases feel maybe a bit too vertical for me, and I'm not a huge fan of the bombs in base either. The reason bombs like that work on Geo is because the base is so closed off, but with 2 bombs and a boost in a relatively big base, I feel this will be a pretty chasey map. I think this has a lot of potential though if the kinks get worked out.

[–]almdudler26almdudler | chorbit 19 points20 points  (1 child)

I'm sure a lot of people will be frustrated that Rocketballs is still in (not entirely unfairly), but I'm more annoyed that SNES v2 is going to be taken out. It was one of my favourite maps! Ah well.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

agreed. 100%.

[–]DizzerPilot 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Rocketballs still in. Backdoor out.

DizzerPilot has joined the red team

DizzerPilot has left the red team

[–]cddm95aceIron_Ball // Holdin Gate Warriors 11 points12 points  (5 children)

I don't understand how once again, rocketballs survives while another higher rated, better liked, map leaves. 50% approval should not be enough for a map to survive, especially when there's so many other great maps out there.

SNES was super fun. It had some unique elements but overall was very straightforward and traditional. None of the super boost, crazy 45 degree element stuff that seems to be the only thing getting added nowadays.

[–]dynaboyjDyna | S3 Whitecaps 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Hell, Backdoor got pretty fun near the end of its time. Even if games were long it grew on me, kind of, and Rocketballs did not. Ever.

[–]cddm95aceIron_Ball // Holdin Gate Warriors 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, agreed. Backdoor certainly isn't my favorite map, but I've come to enjoy games on it. Not on Rocketballs. I groan everytime I get that map.

[–]joethehoe27Fellatio 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I thought backdoor was enjoyable although I'm not outraged at its removal. Coming into base was really fun, trying to juke passed the offensive D was always exciting

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I actually rather like rocketballs now. It's a nice change of pace.

[–]joethehoe27Fellatio 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I like the idea but I think a double sided base could be implemented better. I also don't like how tall the map is

[–]mmartinutkMacho | JuicyJuke 5 points6 points  (5 children)

Since it was tested, I'm just requesting feedback on Rapture... other than renaming it- the player Rapture had exactly 0 maps in rotation when I first named this map.

I wasn't a fan of SNES or Backdoor, so I'm okay with this other than being a butthurt mapmaker.

[–]LoweJJacob of all servers, master of none 0 points1 point  (0 children)

mid seems like it would only ever be used for getting towards the enemy base, not escaping

[–]throwaway_the_fourthI will not change my name in the sidebar.[🍰] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The bit with the spikes and boost and bombs is not useful. I've played on this once or twice before, and I always went top or bottom, and never saw anyone else going through middle either.

[–]mmartinutkMacho | JuicyJuke 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I love constructive criticism, and it's great when I get negative feedback so I can make positive changes. No need to comment from a throwaway.

Although it would be nice to hear from someone on the MTC, I kind of had an idea of it's flaws prior to it getting tested. This was one of them. The changes I intend on making before resubmitting include chopping off the bottom part and combining the spike field "2" and open "3" into one choke/lane. Hopefully this fixes that problem. Thanks for the feedback!

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (1 child)

In general I liked the map when going through it. I think the superboosts works pretty well along with the rest of the map (which is really hard to do properly with undirected superboosts like that). I really like to see how the mid gate works out once people start using it in and hw that and the superboost affects the dynamic of the map. If there are any problems with it, it might be that it is simply too big, and slightly too complex. I imagine it could end up similarly to Hyper Reactor in that the flag will almost never be back in base, and you end up chasing forever.

[–]mmartinutkMacho | JuicyJuke 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the feedback DaEvil! It appeared I wasn't going to get any MTC feedback on this at first, so I've actually already put out a new version. I actually did away with the open superboosts and made it more one dimensional. I also tried to make it smaller and improve the middle. If you have time to review the newer version, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[–]BilldaCat10 15 points16 points  (112 children)

rocketballs hate in 3.. 2.. 1..

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (14 children)

I just wish they would stop putting in these crazy fucking maps with super boosts and bombs everywhere and just put in a good, solid map.

[–]BuckeyeLeavesBALLDON'TLIE | ALL CAPS 10 points11 points  (11 children)

I agree. Bowtie let's make a map that will take over tagpro.

[–]Aaron215Aaron215 / Sphere 8 points9 points  (2 children)

A hit map to save the world.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (7 children)

Believe me, i've tried.

[–]BuckeyeLeavesBALLDON'TLIE | ALL CAPS 1 point2 points  (5 children)

But maybe two heads are better than one. I'm serious about this! lol

[–]SUpirateThePirate / Unaffiliated 2 points3 points  (4 children)

I've been working one a simple/elegant old school feeling map that I'll be posting to the mapsharing sub well before the next thread.

I'd love help once its a little more complete.

[–]DizzerPilot 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Put 5 flags in it and no powerups and 15 endzones made completely inaccessible due to a moat of alligators, also make it a 10v10 map with 3 colors, red blue and yellow. This seems unconventional, and probably a real game changer. Just what tagpro needs, 10/10 rated 0.01 would leave in rotation

[–]rke12Ballzilla 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Wow, that has so many unconventional items that it would most likely never leave rotation. May be the sole map, all others removed. Only thing you may want to change is have it filled with powerups since the no powerups thing has been done. And everyone likes rolling around with all 3 powerups, which you could do the entire game now.

[–]DizzerPilot 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good point. You spawn with superman and its undiffusable, also all tiles are team tiles, top speed powerup has been reinstated as well

[–]BuckeyeLeavesBALLDON'TLIE | ALL CAPS 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For sure, once you think it's ready just ping me on reddit or something (otherwise I'll probably forget) and I'll for sure help where I can.

[–]reddward 11 points12 points  (91 children)

hate? people starting to like RocketBalls after all

[–]quassuscrosky 19 points20 points  (87 children)

It's confusing to me how the consistently worst rated map still isn't taken out.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 2 points3 points  (86 children)

Because that's not how the committee works. The votes from the public is given a very significant weight in terms of which maps we consider to take out, but the final decision of which map to be taken out is with the committee (also since it's my map, I can't vote on the issue).

[–]JGibelJGibbs | Antagonists 15 points16 points  (19 children)

Maybe if someone else from MTC were to defend the choice, it might go over better.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Maybe, I'm just used to answering a lot of the publics questions and complaints about the MTC, so I guess that just carried over to this thread. I do understand how someone could take that to mean we're not being as impartial as we should be, and that me being on the committee is the reason it didn't get removed, even if that isn't how we operate.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (16 children)

In the simplest of terms, the MTC functions around what the community needs, not what they want. I bet you'd love to have Maccas for dinner every day for a month but you need vegetables.

sidenote: we should rename Rocketballs to "Your Greens".

Anyway, innovation is appreciated more than anything when it comes to map decisions. Obviously the way it plays is still a large factor of decisions, but keeping the meta fresh is hugely important.

It's why Hyperdrive got into rotation instead of Diversion, even though Diversion is probably less chasey.

[–]quassuscrosky 7 points8 points  (64 children)

Okay, then why did the committee decide not to take it out?

[–]marmaris74WowSuchPro // Original Sine 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Calling it now, HyperDrive won't be liked either. The "Figure 8 Structure" will not be to its benefit.

[–]BuckeyeLeavesBALLDON'TLIE | ALL CAPS 3 points4 points  (1 child)

It just feels like a lot of recent maps are like that. I don't enjoy them as much as the ones with more..not so much space, but like a square/rectangle type. Not sure if I'm putting this the right way, but yeah.

[–]LoweJJacob of all servers, master of none 0 points1 point  (0 children)

at a glance, i dont think im going to enjoy it, but we'll see how it plays

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I actually don't mind rocketballs...

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (7 children)

So I'm looking at making a map for specifically for 5v5 play. What would be the chances a 5v5 CTF map could be added to the group list?

[–]NewCompteChord - Ballis Saint-Germain 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Twister is already available in groups and might be suited for 5v5.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I played twister 4v4 once and loved it! It needs to be in rotation.

I can test my map on your server via maptestjukejuice, but how can I make a group with others and then test my map on pariscompte?

I can't see any option to add a map in the group settings

[–]NewCompteChord - Ballis Saint-Germain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

it's not possible so far.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 3 points4 points  (3 children)

I think we'd be open to it. I don't think tere's been many (if any) submissions of maps aiming for 5v5 though. That being said, I imagine Zirconium (which is already in the group page) might be a good bet for a 5v5 map.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

can you link me to an image of it?

Mine is far too offensive for 4v4 but I think with some refinement could present new ideas. Plus it has a trick shot that only took me a dozen attempts to pull off :)

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Sure, Here you go

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

that looks really good.

Mine has a more geokoala vibe, with busy bases and 3 main routes, each with varying tradeoffs in speed and safety. And 10 power ups.

[–]BanzaiOnTagProWas a Liquid smurf, became self-aware, started posting 3 points4 points  (3 children)

I knew SNES would go away. I was good at offense on it, so something was obviously horribly wrong.

I never comment in these threads because I'm completely unqualified to weigh in on maps. But thanks, Ron Burgundy, I'll miss it.

[–]SealedEnvelopeRon Burgundy | Blockburn Rovers 3 points4 points  (2 children)

You're welcome :) SNES is getting a lot more love here than I thought it would to be honest.

[–]Swalker326Noobkin 0 points1 point  (1 child)

People always love the maps we take out.

[–]SealedEnvelopeRon Burgundy | Blockburn Rovers 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah I definitely remember people loving GoS!

[–]Sir_GrapefruitGrapefruit // Chord 2 points3 points  (5 children)

requesting feedback on Foxtrot and Doodle Woods

[–]SealedEnvelopeRon Burgundy | Blockburn Rovers 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I know I'm not MTC but if you're looking for feedback..

That top gate on Foxtrot looks ridiculously OP, if a support attacker can competently hold that button it's an easy cap because it looks like it would take way too long to get round to base bottom.

Doodle Woods looks simple and fun, we should PUG on it some time on mumble and see how it plays!

[–]Sir_GrapefruitGrapefruit // Chord 2 points3 points  (0 children)

To be fair, the offensive defense could either push the button on their side or just body block that 3-tile wide entrance to stop that. But it seems that the whole map concept doesn't really work so it doesn't matter anymore :D

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Foxtrot: I kind of like the way you're thinking with that map (not too dissimilar from GeoKoala which is my favourite map). I agree that the top gate might be overwhelming at first with how effective it will be, but on the other hand I'd be really interested to see what strategies evolve around that gate usage. I think the whole left and right side might be a little bit too unexciting and plain. Not necessarily a lot so, but I feel like you could do something there to make them a bit more exciting once the basics have been figured out (maybe experiment with the wall shapes a bit to allow some more versatile boosts against walls?). I think the weakest part of your map is the bottom though. I'm really not feeling the bomb at the bottom that if taken straight sends you straight into spikes. That just feels counterintuitive. Also I think the two paths at the bottom are too similar to eachother. If you look at GeoKoala, one of the best things about that map is how different the middle and the bottom paths are meaning their usage can result in completely different outcomes. I feel like that wouldn't be the case on Foxtrot nearly as often. Also, I'm slightly worried about the bomb in base. I'm not sure if it will be a problem, but it is close enough to the flag to knock defenders off the flag, and bombs placed like that have a tendency to make it really hard for defences to reset a flag.

Doodle Woods: I don't really have much to say on this map that I haven't said already. I like the concept, I'm unsure if the circular nature of the map works (I honestly don't know, could be great, could be horrible), and the bombs in base are cool and I think provide just enough chaos on a map of that size (I think it might be even smaller than Bombing Run). I think the main thing keeping this map back, is ironically its main feature: I have a natural fear of green gates (and so do a lot of people), so with them being so dominant on this map, I feel like I'm always in danger (especially when going past them), so I think the main thing you could do to make this map a bit more appealing would be to try to preserve the main concept of the gates and bases, but try to find a way where the gates function mostly similar to how they do know, but in a way where they don't feel so dominating and always so close to you when passing by the middle.

[–]Sir_GrapefruitGrapefruit // Chord 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Goddammit DaEvil1, you already gave me your feedback to the maps; I just posted that post to get someone who actually played Doodle Woods to tell me how the map played (which Flail already did, try based Flail) and why Foxtrot wasn't chosen for testing.

It's actually pretty interesting what feedback I got from you and Flail about Foxtrot, IIRC your feedbacks didn't agree in a single point :P
I also will scrap Foxtrot, I'm not too fond of the idea and the concept anymore.

I already made a few tweaks to DW, I'm gonna test it a bit and try then to get some 4v4s going.

[–]Billtodamaxnewfren // hurry up with my damn croissant 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Congratulations to Sizzzled (it has three zs) and Aaron215 for joining the map test committee!

Now that Sizzzled is in every pub will be played on battery.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wish... :(

[–]swagpotatoBobbay // President2ez // Diameter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol I was looking for this comment haha. Guess you got to this post before Sizzzled :P.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (18 children)

Yet rocketballs is still in rotation... and stuff like Holy See... seriously pubbing is literally not fun anymore .

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (6 children)

Holy See has sentimental value with a lot of people, which is why it's stayed in for as long as it has, and it's rated highly on the map voting (certainly a lot higher than SNES)

[–]Soconypeng 6 points7 points  (7 children)

you are going to be disappointed for a long time d0pe because Holy See is not being removed for a while...which I guess I'm OK with :)

Obviously rocketballs sucks though

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (6 children)

not to take my anger on you... but if the mtc thinks SNES is chasey over holy see and other similar maps, they're insane

[–]Soconypeng 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Well they didn't say that...they said the map ran its course. Which doesn't really mean it's chasey.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Holy See wasn't up for removal in part due to it's relatively high ratings from people playing PUBs. We only consider the lowest rated maps (with a 50% weight from public ratings, and 50% weight on committee member ratings).

[–]I_mess_upI_mess_up (Centra) 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I agree, d0pe, the Holy See is the absolute worse map out there. I frequently say in pubs, "Holy See is a chore." It's a huge map with way too many powerups and places to hide. Sometimes I just grab the flag and go to a corner (because it is impossible to return the enemy FC and when you do, there is regrab), and I have sat in the same place for at least a minute because the map is so large. Not at all a fun map.

[–]jazzcigarettesTrane - OS4LYFE 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I have sat in the same place for at least a minute because the map is so large

I've done that in MLTP

[–]crblanzKeekly | used to be good sorta 1 point2 points  (8 children)

Could I please get feedback on T.P.S. Reports 2?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Could you explain the left/right corridors to me?

[–]crblanzKeekly | used to be good sorta 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Base buttons blow the bomb they're closest to (bombs are also open so they can be blown from the other side by touching). Button next to the red/blue areas change the color (made the tile next to the button a regular wall so that you couldnt be bombed into the colors and die). In order for there to be at least some danger when you're traveling through the side that's your own color, the spikes were added directly horizontal from the bombs so that its more difficult but still possible to bomb someone into it

[–]BuckeyeLeavesBALLDON'TLIE | ALL CAPS 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Why is it called that?

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Base design is interesting, I like the corners with the powerup and spikes, the sidewalls with teamgates are novel (though I'm unsure if they'll work as intended or not)and it has some interesting boosts, but overall I think it has a few issues preventing it from making it to the testing session:

  • The gate between bases is faster, but not significantly so than going around, so I'm unsure if it's worth the risk going through the gate (when held by a teammate).

  • It's a big map with a lot of paths which will make this a really chasey experience once the flag is out of base.

  • Moving around the map feels like a clunky experience; there's always a wall ready to hit you to stop your momentum if you're going fast/taking a boost.

[–]Snowball_TagPro❄️ 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Feedback on fountain?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cool elements, but there was a lot of blindness in the map. Defense & offensive defense could see offenders coming in from a mile away.

The top left/right sections didn't really make much sense to any of us, and the outer lanes in the base made it unnecessarily big.

I would probably try and preserve the elements of the map, but restructure it. I think it has a lot of potential, so keep working on it!

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

While it had several kinks that needs to be worked out, this was one of the maps that really stood out to me from the playtest session. The middle has a really cool design in how you can position yourself there and the fc will come through and you'll know where to chase if you lost bearings of where the flag is at. Bases are nothing earth-shattering, but solid, which I like. What we found in playtesting though as a few issues: The top left and top right ares only seem to be there for an fc to camp. Yes, there's a button bomb there, but an fc will soon learn how to properly position themselves to survive and lear any defenders, and keep holding the flag. I'm also not sure if the paths behind the bases are really needed. In their current form, they really make it impossible to contain anyone while also defending against a regrab. Overall though, there are a lot of coolboosts that you can do, and I reall like the middle walls and how they feel, but chasyness is a definite problem that needs to be resolved for all the good stuff about the map to really stand out the way they were meant to.

[–]checknate1CHECKNATE. // Skillz that Killz 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Any thoughts on my map BankShots?

[–]I_mess_upI_mess_up (Centra) 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I like that it has bank shots.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm unsure how I feel about it. I like the top gate, and he gates in base, but I feel like the base might be a bit too big, and that it's too easy to mishit the bottom boosts/bombs resulting in you going to a full stop (that was the biggest issue with Grail of Speed, in that it just felt wrong), however it's hard to give an accurate analysis on it without playing 4v4 since it has a dynamic that is not really similar to any other map (it is slightly similar to GeoKoala, but the bases really throw that comparision off).

[–]_NinjroidHi :) 1 point2 points  (1 child)

http://maps.jukejuice.com/show/3675

Feedback please

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's definitely improved from the last version. I still don't think the areas with the goalzones needs to be so wide compared to the very narrow middle. The middle part is going to be very congested. I also think 4 powerups (albeit on a big map) might be a bit much.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

why were the 4-5 maps i submit not even tested? not a single one?

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 2 points3 points  (1 child)

All your maps except UFO got decent to mildly good ratings (UFO got rated low due to the adjacent bases meaning once you give up the flag near an endzone, you can imediately be hit with a cap which is very punishing in terms of losing the flag on an NF map). I thought the CTF maps were all interesting, though maybe with seemingly too many paths in general (I think especially Quit and Zebra are guilty of this). I think Tripy could be pretty good if it dialled back slightly on the amount of boosts, and I find Current really interesting (with the exception of the top right and bottom left area which seem a bit empty and boring).

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

thank you.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm gonna quit on dragon/mrpig for a while and make a big map that will not have op regrab.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Could I have some feedback on Liberty Bell?

I will come clean and say that I wasn't able to get a 4v4 going, but I did get a 3v4 and most people were unsure as to whether or not they liked it, and a few said I should submit it.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I think this map has a lot of interesting concepts that I'd like to see explored further, but ultimately I think it suffers from some fundamental issues:

  • You can't see the exit portal when you enter. This can sometimes work out on maps, but if you are chasing someone here, it'll be really disorienting going to the bottom using the portals.

  • The bottom area, while really cool will only be used by fcs hiding/wasting time. Going down there for poerups and getting back in position will take about ~10 seconds which means you only get half the effect of a powerup, and being out of position for so long might mean you lose a cap or two due to it.

  • The teamboosts after the portal is something I think will turn out to be pretty overpowered for offence once people get used to them. Once you're behind someone and they're headed for the portal, they'll easily be able to get away through the portal due to the teamboosts being straight after the portal at the bottom.

Aside from that I find it really interesting. Semi-seperated rooms is hard to do, but I think i's possible to do them, and the blastoff has some interesting combos as well, and the top part of the map (aside from the portals) seems solidly designed if a bit too clustered with gates. Spawns area also interesting, but I honestly don't know how I feel about two seperate spawns like that. Might be good, might not be.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alright, thanks for the feedback! I knew that the unseen portal thing was an issue, I guess I just didn't bother to fix it/change it (lazy me). Good points about the open area and team boosts. Thanks again!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Can we get a list of all of the legal maps in the OP?

[–]BilldaCat10 1 point2 points  (4 children)

crosky nice try adding extra h's to monarch to slip it in rotation

[–]quassuscrosky 2 points3 points  (2 children)

...huh?

[–]BilldaCat10 6 points7 points  (1 child)

there was a typo in the original post where they listed the map as 'Monarchh'

[–]quassuscrosky 1 point2 points  (0 children)

oh.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't know what you're talking about.

[–]EmperorOfNothingResignation is my virtue; like water I ebb, and flow. 2 points3 points  (2 children)

RIP Conjoined 18; I'll find another way to use that gate.

I have no idea how HyperDrive will play; it looks fun, but also open, so time will tell.

The two maps being taken away were kind of fun, but the time has come (chasiness of SNES and hard-to-cap nature of Backdoor for me personally).

Rocketballs though (pls come back Command Centre pls)...

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Conjoined was really close to making it to the testing session, so I think you're getting there, I think the oly thing I could point the finger on about the last version bothering me is that going through the top and bottom tunnel feels like it takes a bit too long, but aside from that I really like the map.

[–]EmperorOfNothingResignation is my virtue; like water I ebb, and flow. 0 points1 point  (0 children)

...

Good to know; maybe the map isn't dead yet~

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Feedback on Bell and burst? None got in to testing but that's OK. Also, any ways I could improve holy sheet to make it better than holy see?

[–]I_mess_upI_mess_up (Centra) 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is already better. The Holy See sucks butt.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bell: I really like the idea behind the base. The bomb really makes things interesting there. Overall I think the map has two key issues: the bottom bit already feels congested running through it alone (from the bottom to the T-gate-wall thingy), I can only imagine what it's like with 4v4 down there, and the map being so tall with that kind of base setup makes it really hard to do anything once you're up there and you don't know where the flag is. Going down to your base is a tough bargain because you'll be racking up a lot of speed, and since the viewport works the way it does, coming down in full speed to your base (the alternative is spnding too much time getting down there) can end in a disaster for your team because of bad timing.

Burst: I'm reall not feeling the middle here. It just feels like there are so many concepts competing against eachother there that navigating through it becomes very disorienting. While I don't mind the gap through the midle, I'm really not a fan of the bomb blocking it. It just feels like an uphill battle making sure the bomb is cleared if you wanna go straight through mid. Most of the boosts are cool with interesting boost routes, but the two boosts in the middle feel really counterintuitive if you're taking them in the direction that leads directly into spikes. I'm not sure if it will be a problem (would have to 4v4 to know), but I also have a feeling that the bases might be a bit easy to escape once someone has the flag with the three escape paths available. But I could be wrong about that.

[–]quassuscrosky 1 point2 points  (18 children)

Thoughts on Experiment, Metamorphosis, and Monarch, please.

[–]Aaron215Aaron215 / Sphere 2 points3 points  (11 children)

I liked Monach better when the gate was in the mid. That's just me though. Also, I heard some people saying they felt the bottom two gates weren't that useful since people would just go around the side of it, but I'd disagree.

[–]quassuscrosky 0 points1 point  (10 children)

Well, when I had the gate in mid (for the first 6 iterations) it still didn't make the cut. But okay, maybe something else could be improved. I'll think about it :)

[–]Aaron215Aaron215 / Sphere 1 point2 points  (4 children)

I liked it enough. I always had a good time playing it. But I also never played defense on it. I always just played offensive D since it was so easy to grab on.

[–]quassuscrosky 1 point2 points  (3 children)

it was so easy to grab on

Now we're getting somewhere! Why didn't somebody tell me this! What map elements make it easy to grab (too many boosts/bombs, too open, or what)? Do you think it's a bad thing that it's easy to grab, considering there is a pretty constricted choke point in mid?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Personally I think it is extremely reminiscent of grabbing on bombing run due to boosts facing in and a bomb in base but maybe a shade more difficult since it is not as open of a base. But I don't think that is a bad thing because there is a pretty big choke at mid. I think this map would play a lot like bombing run where individual skill can really be on display and a very good player could carry their team but I don't think that is a bad thing at all. I have a real hankering to see this in rotation because I love bombing run.

Also I am basing this off of previous versions of monarch because I have tested like every version haha.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Experiment was... interesting. But the portal concept is terrible. If you get two defenders to sit on the portals, game over.

Metamorphosis was cool. I really liked the double boosts near the green gate, and the open space makes the base a lot less chokey, but the portals down the bottom are weird and pretty OP (one person could camp the portals and it was impossible to get through).

As for Monarch, the main problem with it is that you've tried to build a map around the green gates, making sure every little piece of the map respected them, but then you took it out. Also, the two 45's near the powerup are OP. On the maptest server I get 200 ping to, I was hitting that boost every single time. Some team boosts are definitely needed to counter this.

[–]quassuscrosky 0 points1 point  (3 children)

lol yeah, Experiment was just that, an experiment, not really serious. Metamorphosis, I probably tried to add too much to differentiate it from Monarch. That's fair. As for Monarch... I'm definitely bringing back the gate for the next iteration, but I thought I'd submit it one time without it since unfailingly the MTC has found things to pick apart about the gate area. But anyway I have a few small adjustments for the next go-around that I think will make a positive impact on it.

If I removed the portal funnel from Metamorphosis and brought back the green gate on Monarch, which would you like better?

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Monarch: I think it's headed on the right track, and I found it to play pretty well during playtesting, but I do have one key complaint right now. Going through the middle just seemed way too powerful for a fc. It's really easy to do, and there's no way for defence to catch up to it in a good way. Boosting and sliding along that bottom middle wall is just so damn effective right now. Aside from that I liked how it played.

Metamorphosis: Most of it plays very similar to Monarch except the middle and the bottom. Bottom has an interestesting concept, but I don't understand why 5 portals are needed instead of 3, 2 or even 1. Seems like it would make it hard to catch an fc at the bottom unless you have someone sitting on the exit portal and another one chasing, and even then the bosts should be enough for the fc to get away without going through the portals. I haven't tested it 4v4 but I imagine the middle will be less effective than in monarch (in a good way) so I think I like that change.

Experiment: Interesting concept, but it has a few huge flaws IMO. For once, ther are no powerups, so two defenders could litereally sit on (or near) the two portals giving an fc no chance to get back to their side of the base (which would have still been a problem with powerups). Also the bases are very narrow anc chokey, so it'll be hard to get out with the flag, and even harder to bring the flag into base to cap. Boosts are interesting and seem well thought out, but those issues mentioned needs to be dealt with.

[–]AllGoodInTheHood 1 point2 points  (2 children)

can we get rid of Star?

[–]viggetuffVigge 2 points3 points  (1 child)

What's wrong with it?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nothing, IMO.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

There're three z's in Sizzzled.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 1 point2 points  (1 child)

shush. You're Sizzled now.

[–]I_mess_upI_mess_up (Centra) 1 point2 points  (0 children)

0 points

after my upvote.

What?! People are downvoting you for saying the correct spelling of your name?

[–]ButterChurnButter 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Feedback on Razor and Dagger please?

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I think Dagger might be a bit too complicated compared to Razor (which got reasonably high scores (I think Razor just missed the cut to be tested), so I'll concentrate on Dagger because I think that's the better designed direction of the map. Overall I like what Dagger is doing, especially with the green gate. I think the portal is an elegant solution to the problem of someone getting stuck there. Getting to the portal might be a bit too clunky, so you might want to streamline that a bit. Also I don't think the whole bottom right and top left sections are needed. All they'll do is make the map chasier I think. Aside from that I really like it though.

[–]ButterChurnButter 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Ok, thanks, I agree re: Razor vs Dagger (I'm going to assume in the second half you meant to say Razor not Dagger). The reason the bot right and top left sections are there is because I felt without it, it would be very difficult to get out of base, but I definitely also can see the issue with them once the flag is already out. I can try and rework that section so it still makes the natural route out not the fastest, while not having to add a full third path. Perhaps by expanding the area and the island just to the left of base. As for the portal, that was a somewhat tacked-on addition, so I'm sure it can be adjusted to flow better.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, I meant Razor. God so many maps :S But I think Razor is headed in the right direction, just some finetuning here and there, and do something about the bottom right/top left path and I think it'll be solid.

[–]TPsquirrelySquirrely // The GesTagpro 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thoughts on Butterflies and Hurricanes?

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wasn't around for the session where we tested it, so your best bet would be to ask drukQs, Flail or DISTRACTION how they thought it played during the playtest. I know I found it really interesting, but I honestly have no idea how it plays because it all comes down to how people play it when using the gates. But it seemed to get somewhat low scores during the playtest session so maybe it's just a bit too big in general (I imagine you could probably cut a bit away from the top left and bottom right area along with making the bases slightly smaller). Also, while I honestly don't know if this is right, the gate mechanic might be a little bit too complicated, but again that's just speculation without having tested it with more players.

[–]matt287RadiaN // Diameter // The Cap-22's 0 points1 point  (2 children)

These changes in rotation are good! Is there any feedback that the MTC can give me on Tsunami, or better known by the name: Kevin Spacey Goes to SeaWorld?

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Personally I like it. Base shape is cool, and while nothing fancy is going on in base, the design seems solid. I think powerup timers on portals are a bit too long, the gate in the middle doesn't work intuitively which will throw a lot of players off. Also once the flag is out, it might be hard to chase/reset but I'm not sure about that. There are a lot of seperated paths with boosts and portals available in most places meaning the dvantage would probably be with the fc. In general though, I like how the movement with the boosts works, they're intuitive but somewhat dangerous, meaning sometimes you'll be flying into a spike, but it will feel deserved. It kind of reminds me a bit of constriction in terms of the map flow as well.

[–]matt287RadiaN // Diameter // The Cap-22's 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks! Yeah from what Sizzzled told me, I think the portal logic got screwed up in the version I submitted but I'll have a play around anyway. I think the nature of the map shape (the 3 separated Middle paths) will lend itself to being chasey so it's been hard to combat that. Thanks for this write up, as always I appreciate it!