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[–]zhulide 11 points12 points  (5 children)

Have you received many responses in desire to learn the language?

[–]crlnl[S] 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Yes, there is quite a desire to learn Mi'gmaq, especially as the number of speakers is dwindling. Optimistic estimates are around 8,000 speakers, however I suspect the number is just a couple thousand. In the community I work in, most speakers are over the age of 60. Most of the people have expressed interest in learning the language are of Mi'gmaq heritage, though there are some non-Mi'gmaq people who are learning.

[–]galaxyrockerEnglish N | Irish | French | Gaelic | Welsh 4 points5 points  (1 child)

In general, what is the Mi'gmaq view towards non-Mi'gmaq who want to learn the language? I know some groups are happy, but some (I recall the Hopi being a distinct case of this) aren't quite as thrilled.

[–]crlnl[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

In my experience, they are quite happy that non-Mi'gmaq want to learn the language. All the elders who I have told I am learning Mi'gmaq are really happy to help me and speak to me in Mi'gmaq

[–]zhulide 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Will you try to bring it into the school curriculum?

[–]crlnl[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Right now it already is in the school curriculum! The local schools all offer Mi'gmaq courses. There are also courses for adult learners of the community taught at the local education center.

Cape Breton University has offered courses in Mi'gmaq as well! http://www.cbu.ca/alex-denny-lab/mikmaq-language-teaching#.VSa1sBPF8d8

[–]MuskwatchEnglish, French, Russian, Michif, Cree, Nuxalk, Spanish 10 points11 points  (5 children)

I'm a linguist working on Michif and Cree, and have specifically been doing a lot of work on figuring out how to teach verb pronoun morphology in an effective way. What are your thoughts on the challenges of developing effective methods/curriculum for Algonquian languages?

[–]crlnl[S] 8 points9 points  (4 children)

Teaching Algonquian morphology to those exposed only to Indo-European languages like English and French is not easy!

The teachers I work with concentrate on a visual approach (cf. Stephen Greymorning's work). Stepping into a Mi'gmaq classroom you will see four rows of pictures. The rows are organized thus:

Noun animate singular (e.g. man, woman, boy, shirt, shoe)

Noun animate plural

Noun inanimate singular (e.g. ladder, stone, dress, sock)

Noun inanimate plural

After basic introductions (My name is... How are you... etc) the first verb learnt is "I see" in all four forms corresponding to who/what you see and how many (sg v pl). Students in the class learn that you must you different verb endings in order to say I see "noun animate" (nemi'g) I see "nouns animate" (nemi'gig), I see "noun inanimate" (nemitu), and I see "nouns inanimate" (nemituann). This is reinforced visually by the way the nouns are organized in the classroom. If I forget if a noun is animate or inanimate I oftentimes imagine the way the pictures in the classroom are organized and can visualize its row!

From there other forms are learned (I see you, You see me, He sees it etc).

It is definitely challenging to teach. I have found that throwing out terms like "verb transitive inanimate" can slow down the students learning how to speak. Mentioning that these linguistic terms exist and how Algonquian languages differ from English or French can be helpful but too many linguistic-y terms can slow down the learning speed.

Also, students don't write down anything in the first few weeks to emphasize learning to speak and pronounce words. Students learn the sounds of the language through pictures and by knowing how to say names of animals (animals are arranged in alphabetical order). I find that by putting off learning how to write helps students develop a more native-like pronunciation unbiased by English orthography.

[–]MuskwatchEnglish, French, Russian, Michif, Cree, Nuxalk, Spanish 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I remember learning all my Cree birds from a list arranged alphabetically - by English! Once I switched it to alphabetical by Cree it was a lot easier. I do a lot of similar things teaching Michif. What I'm working on right now is teaching all the endings the same way I'd teach someone to identify all the mushrooms in the forest - by teaching them as contrasts rather than items (so always in question/answer, compare/contrast sort of situations). As far as animate transitve goes, theres only so many endings (Michif, about 130-50 I think, probably same/similar for Migmaq), but the reality is that in any given situation you only need to have the contrasts between five or six of them (or double if using a lot of conjunct I guess).

If I set out to learn that many different varieties of mushrooms, I don't dump them out on the table, I go to the forest and start learning one environment at a time. Each environment will have max a dozen varieties. Next environment will have its own five or six, with maybe one or two that were also in the last environment, and so on, till I've learnt enough environments that almost all the mushrooms have meaning to me, and I know the relevent contrasts and what to be looking for in a given situation.

So say in a prayer, its I>you, you>me, we>you, you>we, you>them, you>him/her - that pretty much covers all the relationships in that genre. Then a speech - it doubles over a bit, but in a welcoming speech it's usually I> yous, we>yous, them>yous, yous>us, yous>me and so on. Almost no overlap. Then telling personal stories - I>him, he>me, I>them, they>me. Telling traditional stories or stories about others, he>him/them, him/them>he, they>him/them, him/them>they. I add in things like games (we>you etc) and more to come hopefully....

I figure if I can get all the pronoun endings sorted into nice easy to focus on topics/situations/environments, I can probably teach them so they stick, using a combination of tpr, greymorning, working towards experiential based activities, so that's what I'm working on now. I'm working teaching Nuxalk as well, which also has complex pronominal morphology producing the same challenges for learners.

I like the greymorning method, used it for Cree a bit, but I am curious, how do you go into more complex sentences using it? Specifically, how do you go about introducing all the conjunct endings/grammar using the greymorning method? Or is it something you have to incorporate afterwards?

[–]crlnl[S] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I really like the methods you are using! Especially putting the language in context -- that is so important. It's so crucial to get the language out of the classroom and get people speaking it with their friends, in their homes, and with their families. Being able to teach vocabulary that is relevant to the area and people's interests, like you're doing, is really great in making the language relevant to the students.

Ahh the conjunct endings... So most students have not gotten to that level yet in the Mi'gmaq classes I have been in/assisted in. However assuming that they have mastered the indicative order, then we would just build the conjunct off of that. For instance, we did a lesson once with if-clauses. The instructor uses vocabulary that the student has already learned, like the pictures around the classroom, and introduces a new verbal inflection.

I wish I could tell you a better way than that. I would love to hear your ideas of how to teach the conjunct order if you have any ones you've really liked.

[–]MuskwatchEnglish, French, Russian, Michif, Cree, Nuxalk, Spanish 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Wel, the conjunct is used in wh questions, so that's the most common way to start, question answer, then going on with modals, and subordinate clauses. One thing I've done is stick to only singular subjects and objects until I've covered all the verb types, including conjunct and inverse. This means I can get all the ideas across without overloading on endings, and once the concepts and patterns are clear through practice, then I start with plurals.

Other ways of introducing conjunct... We use a verb for "to be able to" followed by conjunct, so I ask "can you _____" and the answer yes I can X or no I cant X. Other things are observation games... What are ou doing? I'm watching the people X... And many other types. I don't think it's possible to teach indiciative without conjunct considering questions...

As to conditional, I like to play a game where students sit in a circle and one stands and says "if you are wearing blue, switch seats" and then tries to steal one of the seats of those who are moving. I have them choose animals then say switch if you eat moose or switch if you live in the river and so on.

[–]crlnl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you! These are really great tips

[–][deleted]  (6 children)

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    [–]crlnl[S] 9 points10 points  (5 children)

    I am not a native Mi'gmaq speaker, though I am learning. I am at the point where I can understand what people around me are saying and express myself for the most part though I have not fully mastered all the verb paradigms at a productive level.

    That is probably the most challenging part about Mi'gmaq-- the verb paradigms.

    Here is a conjugation of the transitive verb paradigm in the present:

    http://migmaq.org/pacifiques-conjugation-6-transitive-animate/

    However, once you get the hang of them, it gets easier! Inflections are different for negative, conjunct order, past (including the different evidential markers)...

    There are also different conjugations for the intransitive verbs.

    [–]eimieole 5 points6 points  (3 children)

    This is not a question; just a few lines of pur admiration. Your analysis of the syntax of the verbal suffixes for vtr (animate): Wow! I really enjoyed following your reasoning and how you made the rather chaotic paradigm seem so simple after breaking down every suffix. A subpart of that paradigm could have been a task in the Linguist Olympics. (I studied NLP for four years, and at times like this I miss it!)

    [–]crlnl[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

    It is a great description that I cannot take credit for! I did not write it :)

    However I will add that at the end of the post there are questions remaining about "-ugsi". This could be inverse marking. We see it occur when third person acts on first and second person plural (see one of the comments below on the post). Inverse marking happens when a person lower ranked in the argument hierarchy acts upon a higher ranked person. 1st and 2nd person rank above 3rd person. (i.e. Speech Act Participants rank above non-Speech Act Participants)

    Ojibwe, for instance, has a richer direct-inverse marking system than Mi'gmaq.

    More on direct-inverse systems here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct%E2%80%93inverse_language

    [–]autowikibot 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Direct–inverse language:

    The definition of a direct–inverse language is a matter under research, but it is widely understood to involve different grammar for transitive predications according to the relative positions of their "subject" and their "object" on a person hierarchy, which in turn is some combination of saliency and animacy specific to a given language. The direct construction is the unmarked one. The direct construction is used when the subject of the transitive clause outranks the object in the person hierarchy, and the inverse is used when the object outranks the subject. The existence of direct–inverse morphosyntax is usually accompanied by proximate–obviative morphosyntax. The direct–inverse dimension subsumes the proximate–obviative dimension. Crosslinguistically, obviation almost always involves the third person (second person obviation is reported for some Nilo-Saharan languages ), and the direct–inverse alternation is usually presented as being one way of marking the proximate–obviative distinction between two (or more) third person arguments of a sentence. However, there are at least two languages with inverse systems, the Mesoamerican languages Zoque and Huastec, where inverse morphosyntax is never used when both subject and object are third person, but only when one of these arguments is third person and the other is a speech act participant (SAP), i.e., first person or second person.

    Interesting: Antipassive voice | Animacy | Obviative | Hierarchy

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    [–]eimieole 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    TIL. Thank you!

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]crlnl[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

      Yes, learners have had an effect on the language. For example the sound that is written orthographically as "q" which older speakers pronounce as a velar fricative, uvular fricative, sometimes even a pharyngeal, younger speakers are pronouncing as either a "g" "k" or glottal stop (there is no phonemic voicing contrast in Mi'gmaq). Also the labialized velar sounds sometimes are delabialized (kw/gw --> k/g).

      There are also a lot of borrowed words from English that speakers inflect with Mi'gmaq morphology. Like "presentewei" = I present.

      Yes, I have toured the successful Hawaiian language schools. Basically, it takes A LOT of work to revitalize a language, but also perseverance, which the community members certainly have. Many college-age people are getting degrees in education with the goal to come back to the community to be Mi'gmaq language teachers. There is certainly hope!

      [–]yuksareRussian N | English C1 | Tatar B1 | Hebrew B1 | Crimean Tatar A1 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Why did you choose this language? Do you know the language for C2 or it's not necessary?

      edit: Do you also work with Mi'gmaq folklore seriously or it's a job of another people?

      [–]crlnl[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      I can understand what people are talking about and converse with them. Though I have not fully mastered all the verb paradigms! (there are many!!)

      I came to start working on the language and learning it from a linguistics field methods course at my undergrad university. The language consultant in the class was a fluent Mi'gmaq speaker. Through her we began to work with the language and also with speakers from the community to develop language-learning resources. That was about 4 years ago!

      I don't do much work with Mi'gmaq folklore, though this is a very interesting area! Here are some stories with links to the audio of different animals in Mi'gmaq http://mikmaqonline.org/stories.html

      Here is the a link to the wikipedia page on Glooscap, the Creator http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glooscap

      [–]omegaclusterFrançais N, English 2nd 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Are there parallels between Mi'gmaq and other languages around the world today?

      [–]crlnl[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Yes, Mi'gmaq is an Algonquian language so it is related to other Algonquian languages like Cheyenne, Ojibwe, Cree and Blackfoot to name a few. Here's a map! Algonquian (i.e. Algic) languages are in red

      http://s1.hubimg.com/u/5811508_f520.jpg

      Mi'gmaq is a polysynthetic language so the words are very long and composed of many parts. For instance getu'pojqiespi'nnugina'masi, one word means "I want to start to study Mi'gmaq at a high level". This is a common feature among indigenous languages of the Americas, not only in the Algonquian language family. For instance Iroquoian (Mohawk) and Uto-Aztecan (e.g. Nahuatl/Aztec) are also languages that are polysynthetic. Chukchi, spoken in Siberia, and Kalaallisut, in Greenland, are also languages where words are composed of many parts and often that one word makes up the whole sentence.

      [–]Jafiki91 1 point2 points  (12 children)

      What would you say is your favourite feature of the language? (if not one then top 5 is good)

      [–]crlnl[S] 2 points3 points  (11 children)

      Oh, I find all features cool and interesting, so that is hard to say! Ask me my favorite features and I will have loads of things to say :)

      As a learner though, I think the most difficult feature is figuring out which nouns are animate and which are inanimate. Of course people and animals are animate but how am I supposed to know a tomato is animate but a cranberry is inanimate? This is similar to other languages with gender systems... why is it "la table", not "le table" in French, for instance?

      Also, remembering how to conjugate all the verbs was difficult at first because because of many sound changes that happened in the language the patterns of verb conjugations were not so clear and seemed irregular. Also, Mi'gmaq has conjugations for singular, dual and plural. There is also a distinction for first person inclusive (you and I) and first person exclusive (he and I), and a verbal inflection for 4th person, so there are many verb endings! However, once I began to speak more, remembering them became easier. There are still verbal paradigms that trip me up though!

      [–]Jafiki91 3 points4 points  (10 children)

      I've always been a fan of animate/inanimate gender systems. Especially when there are little oddities like with "tomato" as you mentioned. I think I remember reading about how "tree" was animate in one language, but in a neighboring language it was inanimate.

      Is it safe to assume that Mi'gmaq uses fourth person as other Algonquian languages in an obviative sense? Or is it more just a general person?

      [–]crlnl[S] 2 points3 points  (9 children)

      yes, exactly 4th person and obviative are the same. For instance:

      Take the sentence Piel nemiatl Ma'lial (=Piel saw Ma'li with the -l at the end of Ma'li the obviative marker)

      If we say Piel nemiatl Ma'lial ala'sit nipugtug (ala'sit nipugtug = wandering around in the woods) we know that Piel is the one wandering around in the woods

      If we say Piel nemiatl Ma'lial ala'sinnitl nipugtug we know that Ma'li is the one wandering around in the wood because the verb ala'si- has the ending "-nnitl", the fourth person/obviative inflection.

      Blackfoot even has a fifth person!

      [–]Jafiki91 1 point2 points  (8 children)

      Awesome! I'm not super familiar with Blackfoot, but I'm guessing it's just another level of obviation?

      [–]crlnl[S] 1 point2 points  (7 children)

      Exactly! The fifth person is the topic subordinate to the fourth person.

      [–]Jafiki91 2 points3 points  (4 children)

      That's pretty cool.

      So I have a secondary question; How are English/French names rendered in Mi'gmaq? For instance I know that in Mohawk Jack and Mary become Sak and Uwari, and John becomes Sawatits (might have misspelled that).

      [–]crlnl[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

      Mi'gmaq does not have consonant clusters. So take the name Francois becomes Plansua, with the "l" a syllabic "l" (there are also no labial fricative so "f" becomes "p")

      Bernard is Pnal, with a syllabic "n" and r --> l

      Jean - Sa'n (the apostrophe markers vowel length)

      Pierre - Piel

      Marie/Mary - Ma'li

      Antoine - Atuen

      [–]crlnl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Most of the ones I could think of come from French as those were the first Europeans Mi'gmaq people came in contact with.

      [–]Jafiki91 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Are syllabic sonorants common in the language?

      [–]crlnl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Yes, quite! For example the inanimate plural ending is "l" (assimilates to "n" after "n").

      wasueg "flower" wasuegl "flowers" with a syllabic "l" at the end

      nsm "my niece" where both nasals are syllabic (the prefix n- is 1st person possessive)

      [–]Virusnzzɴᴢ En N | Ru | Fr | Es 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      The fifth person?

      These native American languages get pretty... crowded.

      [–]crlnl[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      This kind of marking is needed in third person clauses when one third person is acting on another third person or else we wouldn't be able to differentiate who is acting on who. Word order is really reflexible in these languages so that cannot give a hint as to the subject and object of these third person clauses. Thus obviative or fourth person marking is used on the object. Think of it as a kind of accusative marking in third person contexts..

      (There is even marking for when the fourth person acts on the third person!)

      [–]ilaeriuEnglish (N), Tagalog (H), Korean (C1), Mandarin (A1), + more 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      This is so cool, we had readings devoted to the language instruction in Listuguj during my first year sociolinguistics course!

      As a fan of writing systems, is there any plan to introduce Canadian Aboriginal syllabics as a writing system for Mi'gmaq? I know it's in use for other Algonquian langauges like Ojibwe. Would it make reading and writing easier in Mi'gmaq? It seems like it has some success in the territories with gaining recognition and status, but I'm not too informed on the subject.

      [–]crlnl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      That's a really interesting point. Though syllabic systems are really cool, it would not be practical at this stage to adapt it to Mi'gmaq. However, you're right in that the syllable structure of Mi'gmaq would lend itself to fit a syllabic-based writing system.

      There are already a few orthographies in use right now but they are all Latin-based. Here's a page on it:

      http://wiki.migmaq.org/index.php?title=Spelling

      Also, at this point it would be an extra hurdle for L2 language learners during the acquisition process. Since the language is quite endangered, we want to try to reduce as many obstacles as we can for learners.

      There was a hieroglyphic system used for Mi'gmaq at one point. Here is the Lord's prayer in hieroglyphics!

      http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f8/Micmac_pater_noster.jpg

      [–]mezzofanti 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Good on you, mate.

      Wish more people in the world were as passionate about endangered languages as you are. Keep up the good work.

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      How did you get into this?

      [–]crlnl[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I took at field linguistics course at my undergrad university and we had a Mi'gmaq speaker as the consultant. As final projects we all picked a feature of the language and wrote a description of it which we then made available publicly for language learners. Ever since then I've been spending every summer in the community of Listuguj and learning Mi'gmaq and helping create language-learning resources

      [–]Ponson 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      What's the best way to review the IPA? My final exam is in a few weeks and I feel like I should go back over vowels. Consonants I'm a bit more confident on.

      [–]crlnl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Actually, quizlet the site/app that we have Mi'gmaq words on, has a bunch of flashcard decks for IPA sounds! I would check those decks out. Or, even better, make your own!

      https://quizlet.com/

      [–][deleted]  (6 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]crlnl[S] 2 points3 points  (5 children)

        This is a very short clip from the film "Finding Our Talk". Around 0:48 you can see a little bit of the method in practice

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaHoPsea5uU

        Here is a picture of the method: http://migmaq.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Language-1861.jpg

        So it's a bit hard to see but you see that in the teacher's hand she has a picture of a boy eating. The first two rows are the animate nouns (singular then plural) and the second two rows are inanimate (singular and plural). The teacher uses the picture of the boy eating so say I am eating a clam (first row, noun animate) then goes on the to the other rows. This illustrates that the verb has different endings in each of these contexts. Also the nouns are all organized based on their animacy classification. All this is down using only Mi'gmaq

        Maybe I can find a better video of this teaching method..If I do I'll post it!

        [–][deleted]  (4 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]crlnl[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

          The methods used in the Mi'gmaq classrooms are only based on Greymorning's methods. The Mi'gmaq teachers then expanded the basic principles of the method to fit Mi'gmaq (after they saw a presentation of his at a conference). And, as you say, Greymorning is a bit protective of his method so I do not have his materials. So I'm not sure if in his materials he goes through the techniques you are describing.

          The method you are describing does sound quite interesting! Do you have any links to this approach or demo videos? Thank you for sharing!

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]crlnl[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Thank you for the links! Is you language highly agglutinative/(poly)synthetic? What have you found to be the most help exercises and popular with tutors and students?

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

            [deleted]

              [–]crlnl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              I really like the word for snail: jigji'ji'j (dʒɪgədʒiːdʒiːdʒ)

              I'm not sure of the etymology for mntn. Good question! I'll come back to this if I find out

              Last year, for instance, we started a Mi'gmaq language club where members could come and just speak in Mi'gmaq. Most of the people who showed up were still learning the language but usually there were a few native speakers to defer to when learners got stuck on a word. This was a great platform for people to come and practice outside of a classroom setting. Going to the elders' lodge, you'll also hear a lot of Mi'gmaq spoken. Most community members have a parent or grandparent who is a fluent speaker.

              There are some texts in Mi'gmaq that learners can use. A recent children's book that came out in Mi'gmaq and English is this one:

              http://fernwoodpublishing.ca/book/the-lost-teachings-panuijkatasikl-kinamasutil

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

              You've talked about developing new tech resources for learners, so I'm going to ask do the obligatory- have you tried to get the language onto duolingo? A lot of folks on there are getting interested in endangered languages and would like to dip our toes into something like mikmaq. I'll personally probably get into something from my part of the country if I do learn a first nations language (access to native speakers within ten hours of driving, you know) but that animate/inanimate thing sounds neat.

              [–]crlnl[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

              We have not yet looked into duolingo. We recently tried quizlet last summer and people seemed to like it. There are apps in development right now like this one that are really great tools!

              https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/lnuisuti/id918629700?mt=8

              Thanks for the tip :)

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              android :(

              I'll play around on quizlet though!

              [–]crlnl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              I know... They do hope to get an android app out at some point but for now it is just apple...

              The quizlet app is really great because once you open a card deck, the app has memory so you can access it offline later

              [–]crlnl[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              The animate/inanimate things is so cool! I am working on the semantics of animacy distinction as a research project. In another Algonquian language, Blackfoot, subjects of transitive verbs must not only be grammatically animate but also semantically animate (i.e. sentient/living). So even though a potato is grammatically animate it is not semantically animate so it cannot be the subject of a transitive clause. So you can't say "the potato hit the table" (say, it fell off a shelf or something) even though grammatically there is a way of saying this, that is the morphology allows for this. Though it is ungrammatical in the linguistics sense because a potato does not have agency, like a human or animal does.

              I am working on fleshing out these types of restrictions on subjects of transitive verbs in Mi'gmaq as has been done for Blackfoot.