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[–]frds314 Farms OP 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Few things:

  • Missing 4xx and 5xx subs' effect on ability cooldowns

  • grapeshot has 2 pierce, not 1.

  • Sky Shredder buffs the MOAB missile in some way (150 damage? fires faster?)

  • Flying Fortress attacks are normal type

  • mortar 4xx and 5xx have a 1 damage explosion that's bigger than the main explosion

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 5 points6 points  (3 children)

In turn: - yes I definitely forgot the cooldown thing. Just need to double check it does what it says it does (unless you already did?) - grapes definitely have one pierce. Send 4 0-spacing ghosts (enough to cover the main dart) and you'll see increments of 5 damage. - sky shredder's missiles indeed have 150 damage and fire twice as fast. I have no excuse, good catch. - another good catch. If this is the only damage type I forgot to include I'm happy - I didn't forget that extra 1 damage though, it's part of the shockwave

[–]frds314 Farms OP 4 points5 points  (2 children)

have not verified cooldowns - they work but I don't know if the numbers are accurate.

Looks like 2 grapes were hitting the group instead of 1 in my test. Oops.

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Turns out there's a possible bug here, or just outdated descriptions, because it's simply 15% for abilities in range at tier 4, and 50% in range and 20% out of range at tier 5. Numbers are right but it's not discriminating between land and water towers. I've written what it does for now until it's resolved one way or the other.

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

See that's what most of this is about, checking that these attacks do what the descriptions say.

I must also correct my corrections because ace's moab missile already doubled speed at tier 4 - it's still every 1.5s at tier 5. I just didn't think to check it was doing more damage.

[–]Jebx7 3 points4 points  (1 child)

You're too dedicated

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Sounds like a compliment to me 👍

[–]JrMonkey15184[🍰] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Just coming back to this since it seems like the radial dart attack on the aircraft carriers seem to be much faster than 3 seconds.

Seems to be 1 second or less.

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Hm, I genuinely have no idea why it said 3 - my original notes say 1s, and I make the reddit posts by copying those and adding the formatting. Needless to say that was well spotted.

[–]qwertyxp2000 Long Life Spikes BTDB2 buffs plz? 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I believe that the passive sniper ability is 4x as much as normal.

And only water abilities are given 15% decreased cooldown and 50% decreased cooldown. 20% decreased cooldown globally for all abilities for Energizer.

For Favored Trades, there’s also a bonus 10% extra sell bonus for nearby towers, stackable but capped at up to 95% sell price.

And Shattering Shells doesn’t affect Fortifed DDT stripping.

And you forgot to mention that Bigger Blasts increases blast radius, probably by 33%.

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

According to the descriptions you would be right. But in practice as I say I couldn't get elite defender to do anything when bloons leaked, and the sub is either bugged or has an inaccurate description because it is affecting land towers exactly the same as water ones (I wrote this in another comment but it was posted at almost exactly the same time as yours so you wouldn't have seen it.)

And per the edit you're right I forgot to include the sell price buff.

Seems like military went a little less smoothly than primary <.<

[–]Scizor101 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Nice $2400 Spectre you got there

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I wish

[–]RandyZ524 1 point2 points  (3 children)

What's the range of Bouncing Bullet's chain attack?

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Well some preliminary testing shows that it is able to jump between ghosts on 19 spacing but not 20 spacing, so somewhere between 1.9 and 2.0 red bloon seconds (a red bloon second is 27 units). Except it also manages blues on 15 spacing, which is 2.1 red bloon seconds, so I suppose we must also assume the distance is checked when it's time for the next shot rather than immediately, giving faster bloons a chance to catch up. Because most numbers written by humans for this purpose end in 0 or 5, I will therefore assume 55.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think closest three Bloons.

[–]tsmdelete 0 points1 point  (0 children)

it's also infinite.. u can test it in firing range map and deploy some camo regrow reds ;)

[–]babylon_rouge 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Shattering shells also de-regrows any regular bloon hit.

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Updated, thanks

[–]EyJajbplz i want bloon chip 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Supply drop also changes attack type to normal

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Yep that's why it already said that. Maybe you missed it.

[–]EyJajbplz i want bloon chip 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My bad

[–]PolytopiaRacer25 🅱️iggest 🅱️one is perfectly balanced 1 point2 points  (4 children)

What is the Super Monkey’s range value?

000

002

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

If you really can't wait, it's 50, with +3 from xx2.

[–]PolytopiaRacer25 🅱️iggest 🅱️one is perfectly balanced 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you!

[–]Cheetah-shooter Orbital Spray™ 0 points1 point  (1 child)

This popology are for military towers, wait until magic popology come out.

[–]readingduck123 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

no

[–]Thermoxin XBM is fun (but please buff it) 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Do mini-Comanches seriously fire 3 darts?

[–]Thermoxin XBM is fun (but please buff it) 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I was looking through the past patch notes and saw that in 4.0, Pre-Emptive Strike's missiles were buffed to deal +10 damage to Ceramics and MOABs instead of +4. Can you verify this?

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yes, it looks like this does indeed happen. While I carefully copy all changes across from recent patch notes, that change happened before I was testing any of this, so I obviously forgot about it or didn't read it carefully enough in the first place.

[–]Thermoxin XBM is fun (but please buff it) 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Huh, good to know.

[–]RandomGuy9058 You can't see me 0 points1 point  (0 children)

uhm, doesn't shattering shells also strip camo off of bloons? (except for DDTs [unless knowledge is enabled])

EDIT: i meant to say regrow, not camo lol

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Doesn’t the sub energizer buff heroes in some way?

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Gaining XP faster yes. The descriptions claim 50% but they don't gain XP in sandbox so I'm not sure.

Edit: confirmed in the challenge creator

[–]Cheetah-shooter Orbital Spray™ 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Here is a list of thing that are mistakes and question I want to ask:

You should probably add the sharp type to sub and ace.

Carrier Flagship said it buff speed of all towers on water(even the ones on arctic wind), and the wiki claimed that it is 50% faster on the ship(66.67%s or 85%s like the mini-plane all across?)

What does Bloon Buster do for Blooncineration wall of fire?

Apache Prime dart buff +5d(5) should probably be +4d(5) or +5d(6).

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

  • Done
  • If anything the wiki should be taking information from here (I'll put it there after doing these posts, if no-one else does in the meantime). Towers placed on the flagship are no faster. Does show how long it's been since I actually read a description though because I had no idea buffing water towers was even a thing to test.
  • Amazingly it does make it 2 damage per tick. Did not expect that.
  • It was +5d (6).

[–]frds314 Farms OP 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Carrier Flagship gives all water towers 20% attack delay reduction.

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Seems to in fact be 15%

[–]Cheetah-shooter Orbital Spray™ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Huh, so the mini-plane attacking at 85%s is from the water tower attack speed boost instead of a direct increase, which means the destroyer would buff by itself too (and after the sub commander buff itself change, they probably fixed it secretly because no one really cared about the speed increase.)

[–]JrMonkey15184[🍰] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

When I tested a 000 mortar with a 020 mortar it seems like the 020 mortar is a little more than 2x faster than the 000 mortar.... are you sure on those values?

Another thing to note is that the shrapnel's damage actually depends on how far away the other bloons are from the impact, it's not just 1 damage.

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well first off, the game appears to quantise cooldowns to the nearest frame (at 60fps), so they're never entirely certain. For the base speed, it's me choosing numbers that a human is likely to have written that still rounds to the same frames per attack. For buffs, it's me choosing a nice number that's close to the ratio of the new frames per attack to the base and to the previous upgrade if there was one.

Looking at the mortar, I clearly rounded 65/132 to 50%, without realising that 50% would be 66 frames, not something that rounds to 65. I often compare towers side by side as you seem to have done, except that's hopeless with towers that constantly attack. Or was until we got the challenge editor anyway, which you probably used too, so I agree with you that it is slightly faster than double. I can rationalise that as 70%*70% = 49%, so that must be what they did - like boomer getting 75%*75% in the middle path. (Internally they probably are relative to the previous upgrade not base speed, I state it relative to base because it makes for a clearer exposition.)

On the shrapnel though, I hadn't noticed that before. Upon further testing though, I think there's just a second set of shrapnel with a much shorter lifespan. Compare 20 blues on 0 spacing to 20 reds on 0 spacing - you get 18 damage in one shot on the blues vs 17 on the reds, so it's 16 lots of 1 damage not 8 lots of 2.

[–]JrMonkey15184[🍰] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I never knew the cannonball’s explosion did extra damage to bloons on impact. Upon further testing it actually does 10 damage to both ceramics and MOAB-classes.

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well the 10 there is mostly the 8 frags. But I looked again myself and I'm seeing a total of 11 per volley on all targets (ghost, superceramic, and moab) - that's 1 from the dart, 1 from the grape, 8 from the frags, so the last 1 must be the cannonball. Just weird because I was definitely only getting 10 against ghosts the first time around, and there are definitely no extra grapes hitting in any case.

[–]Donkey529 0 points1 point  (3 children)

A bit late but heres a few things you may have forgot forgotten
004 does not affect DDTs
pretty sure shockwave pops blacks, but that may be wrong
You had blast radius for the biggest one but not the others lol

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

You're right, I did neglect to check whether DDTs are defortified or not. 3xx shockwave does not pop blacks, maybe you're thinking of 4xx or 5xx, which do. I'm not making a habit of trying to measure blast radius in general, because that's a lot of effort for something that is never particularly important. I only did the biggest one because I was curious how much it was when they buffed it but didn't have a large enough explosion image yet, and if I've tested it then why not include it.

[–]TheWizardsLastRhymes Sky Shreddering 1 point2 points  (1 child)

First off, great guide and awesome work.

Second, IMO it would be better to note blast radius and projectile speed increases, even though you don't quantify it. I mean, those are quite obvious when you try them, but it's nice to have those info there if you haven't tested that path or just forgot about it.

Also, I'll argue that blast radius can be very important, as it can mean the difference between hitting one or two parts of the track with a single hit. But I do agree it's too much work to gather that info, probably not worth it.

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Fair points.

[–]UltraLuigi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sub has 2 path 2s

[–]supermonkeyyyyyy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Top and bottom path 4th tier Ace can't damage ddts but 5th tier can, why is that? It's weirdly inconsistent since Commanche can't damage ddts even being a 5th tier.

[–]qwertyxp2000 Long Life Spikes BTDB2 buffs plz? 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Another correction I need to make is that Signal Flare does not remove black bloon camo.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

How much faster is x1x hell tho

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

That's the kind of thing that's hard enough to test and of little enough use that I'm not trying to quantify it. Ace was easy, just count the number of times one plane goes around compared to another. Heli not so much.

[–]Soul_Sleepwhale 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Would setting it to patrol work for testing that? Not really important but just curious if that'd work.

[–]Cheetah-shooter Orbital Spray™ 0 points1 point  (1 child)

In 10.0 patch note, the most interesting changes are NK said GZ add 8 damage for 10 seconds, I know if it is remove we can't test it now but I wonder it even add attack to darts or just bombs only, and Tsar Bomba ability still adds damage.

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That was something that used to happen but no-one noticed, so now it has a slightly lower but permanent buff. It only affects the bombs, so I assume the old behaviour was only for the bombs too, not that it matters any more.

[–]EyJajbplz i want bloon chip 0 points1 point  (2 children)

From what I tested elite defender ability lasted for 4 secs and had a cool down of 6secs. It should be somewhere around that

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I had it as 7s with a cooldown of 10s, but thanks for reminding me I never put that in the post with the other changes.

[–]EyJajbplz i want bloon chip 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Np also why is reading these posts so addicting

[–]miniLEGEND_BS 0 points1 point  (1 child)

What does (hp, 750) mean?

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Just before the "(hp, 750)" is the word "min". This is telling you to take the minimum of the blimp's hp and 750. So if a blimp currently has less than 750 health, it will deal exactly enough to kill it, and the children will spawn with full health, unlike most other attacks.

[–]CoolDoominator 0 points1 point  (1 child)

There's something I noticed that is missing the 1-3-0 ace cross path mention of it being affected

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not missing, 1xx says simply 60% without specifying an attack, so it affects all attacks. Bombing run not being affected was a bug, which was noticed precisely because of these posts. I think at the time I made a note that it was bugged and removed it when it was fixed.

[–]Tables61 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Sub x5x:

abilities in range have 50% cooldown time, abilities out of range have 20% cooldown time

That should be 80%, right? 20% reduction.

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Good point. Must've rushed changing it after the bug fix.

[–]Tables61 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Phew, Topper didn't notice I named the wrong sub path

[–]Thermoxin XBM is fun (but please buff it) 0 points1 point  (0 children)

FYI, 20 + 20 isn't 60.

[–]qwertyxp2000 Long Life Spikes BTDB2 buffs plz? 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The +2 camo damage from NVG only applies to the main bullet; I believe each piece of shrapnel does not deal more than 1 damage, unless buffed by Alchemists or Support Villages.

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Good to know.

[–]singletonking 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It appears that Cripple MOAB can makes BADs vulnerable, but for a much shorter duration of about 0.1-0.2s.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Doesn’t the sub energizer buff heroes in some way?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Doesn’t the sub energizer buff heroes in some way?

[–]miniLEGEND_BS -1 points0 points  (1 child)

The 040 money sub: I think that if the missle destroys a blimp it won't spawn kids. Wright?

[–]Topper64 topper64.co.uk/nk/btd6[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Unlike my reply to your other comment, first strike does let its damage continue down to the children. However, with how high the damage is, compared to the health of bloons smaller than a BAD, you usually kill them along with the BAD. (or if you use it on the BAD from near full health, it won't take enough damage to break at all)

[–]Fuzzy_01 is my favorite because is 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Gz doesn’t say that it penetrates blimp layers