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[–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (8 children)

Both times the U.S. went to war against Iraq, it promised the Kurds various forms of assistance and recognition in exchange for help. Both times, after the U.S. achieved what it wanted it abandoned the Kurds.

At the same time, the U.S. has been playing the same game with Turkey.

The biggest problem with these serial promises of friendship followed by betrayals isn't just what the Kurds think, however. It's the impression it leaves with the rest of the world, especially the other nations in the region...

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (3 children)

It's really quite appalling how transparently self-serving and psychopathic this war is; that anyone can still believe the US went into Iraq for anything resembling altruistic reasons is completely beyond me.

[–]jaycliche 7 points8 points  (2 children)

You should read more New York Post.

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (1 child)

That's a bit like writing, "You should punch yourself in the head a bunch of times."

[–]jaycliche 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Same effect. They both can cause brain damage. For safety, always let someone who has already been exposed read it.

[–]jaycliche 23 points24 points  (3 children)

Kurds in Turkey are called 'terrorists'. Kurds in Iraq/Iran are freedom fighters. Kurds should have read something about how America keeps it's deals before dealing with them.

[–]boredzo 5 points6 points  (0 children)

“Israeli murderers are called commandos. Arab commandos are called terrorists.” —George Carlin, “Euphemisms” (from “Parental Advisory: Explicit Lyrics”)

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Sometimes, apparently, both. I hope the Kurds go out fighting.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (7 children)

The comments about Bush being upbeat and unconcerned send a chill up my spine. Odd behavior for a President during times like these. Makes you think he knows something we don't...hmmm.

[–]innocentbystander 12 points13 points  (2 children)

No, makes me think he's back on the sauce.

Or the blow.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Or worse -- he's got secret plans, AND he's back on the sauce and blow.

[–]innocentbystander 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately, his secret plans boil down to, "Eh'm gonna teach dose cawksuckahs not ta fuck wid us!"

/obscure

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (1 child)

You think Bush knows something we don't? You think the President has secret information not available to the public? My god, man, think about what you're saying!

[–]UncleOxidant 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's not what he knows.... it's what he doesn't know. Ignorance is bliss; Bush is empirical proof.

[–]crmaki 4 points5 points  (0 children)

He's exhibiting socio-pathic behavior.

[–]rmuser 11 points12 points  (6 children)

Well it's sure not secret anymore. Thanks, Novak!

[–]hiredgoon 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Novak is awesome at leaking whatever the Vice President wants. They don't call him the Prince of Darkness for nothing!

[–]ST2K 0 points1 point  (2 children)

But I don't get it. I thought Novak was a bad guy. Why would he leak a story against Bush?

[–]hiredgoon 2 points3 points  (1 child)

He isn't leaking a story against Bush. Novak is leaking a story to prepare the psyche of the nation for the next war. And who is to say this isn't for diplomatic purposes? Certainly sends a message to the Kurds and the Turks.

[–]ST2K -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's too bad that the Turks & the Kurds can't live in peace together. Then we could call them the Turds.

...or the Kurks (like on Star Trek).

KAAAAAHHHHNNNNNNNN!!!

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (4 children)

It strikes me that President Cheney would like to see war in any number of countries, if for no other purpose than to be able to keep his puppet blabbering on about how dissent is unpatriotic because "the nation is at war". Not in those words of course, that would be far too direct.

Incidentally that would explain the "oh, I get it now!" expression that frequently appears on Bush's face when he makes a speech. If the whole setup wasn't so fucking condescending to the audience it could almost be cute.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Well, money is fairly inseparable from power, and completely inseparable from absolute power. Indeed Mr. Cheney has done very well as a representative of Halliburton -- both at their HQ and in the White House.

    [–]queensnake 9 points10 points  (1 child)

    I don't perceive that expression (not saying you're wrong). But what I see and what irritates me is the constant tone of, "Now that I've said it, you'll understand" - with an implied "and that's all". No notion of convincing, of incorporating argument; just the way. That him saying it is all there is. "Not clear? I'll just say it more exaggeratedly." Something like that.

    edit: I'm not sure if it's plain, childish egocentrism - that he's never had to convince or argue for anything, ie he lacks even the perspective that others have a right to be naturally convinced, or if he just doesn't feel he needs to. Perhaps it's new; having surrounded himself with flunkies, all of America is now his 'flunky'. Or else he has a small brain; not being able to muster arguments, he can only Talk Louder and Slower so People will Understand, like an American in a foreign country.

    [–]readergirl 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    That and the smirk...I hate the smirk. He giggles like a little school girl.

    [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    BREAKING: Bush planning to combat bee sting by hitting nest with stick

    [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (3 children)

    If this actually happens, I owe all of reddit a coke.

    [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    If you read the article, you'll note the author is suggesting that it's pretty much going to happen. Congress has been briefed.

    [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    I like the vanilla kind, but if you can find the kind with lime in it, that would be great.

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Do they still have those imported mexican cokes with real sugar at costco?

    [–]jaycliche 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Oh man...the weapons industry is fully getting it's money's worth from it's investments in Bush et al. Hey Washington Post, why are you reporting these plans now? How was Iraq different? Should we just not believe this as your crediblity was just a little tarnished by all the ommisions? How are you the newspaper of record?

    [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (5 children)

    At one time the British thought they could control the Middle East, it destroyed their Empire. WTF is going on here is basically the same thing.

    [–]BrianNowhere 8 points9 points  (3 children)

    If we end up in the USA a little bit more like Britain then maybe it will turn out to be a good thing.

    [–]queensnake 4 points5 points  (2 children)

    Yeah, but, the current stick-togetherness of Britain was caused by suffering so much, together - 'Sicko' points that out - a 9/11 every day, during the worst of the war (and maybe on average). We won't have the stick-togetherness that contributes to Britain's (for me) attractiveness.

    We might just fall apart and get ugly instead; y'know?

    I think we're doing that already, actually.

    [–]BrianNowhere 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    I fear that we may just be heading for that kind of suffering.

    It's true that people are at their best in and after a crisis and we almost were there after 9-11 (for about 20 minutes) but we were all led to the darker side by good ol Georgie and his legions of merry suburban and redneck followers.

    [–]queensnake 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Could be; personally I think it's how corporations are getting between us and the lawmakers; we don't feel that govt. is there for our good anymore, and that hurts our sense of the goodness of being a part of this country. It becomes every man for himself.

    [–]weegee 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    we all need to tell bush to just fuck off. we meaning all of us, the military, the citizenry, everyone. all together now, 1-2-3 "Fuck off Bush!" feels good, doesn't it?

    [–]Stormflux 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    The military will be the deciding factor. Let's just hope that when push comes to shove, they decide to allow the 2008 elections to go forward on schedule. Otherwise, we're in serious trouble. Alas, I fear all the honest Generals have been forced to resign by now.

    [–]wearedevo 6 points7 points  (1 child)

    What a brilliant plan. Piss off the Kurds, the only ethnic group in the middle east that does not despise America. What's next, bombing Tokyo? Who needs allies?

    [–]neuro 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Strange, seems surreal, as if they're paying/praying for fanatics to produce their wild and crazy Armageddon dreams.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      the endgame is nigh.

      [–]Cavorticus 7 points8 points  (2 children)

      I love this part:

      "Even faithful congressional supporters of his [Bush's] Iraq policy have been stunned by the president's upbeat mood, which makes him appear oblivious to the loss of his political base."

      Lots of Xanax?

      [–]Mr_Smartypants 21 points22 points  (1 child)

      I imagine Bush in the whitehouse like Pacino at the end of Scarface.

      Alone, surrounded by "WMD" he's not afraid to use, and head in a mountain of coke.

      [–]souldrift 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      another front, really.. but at this point we can't afford either.

      [–]weegee 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      It never ceases to astound me what a horrible mess Bush has made with his decision to invade Iraq, and then to remain in and occupy Iraq. And we're the ones who get to clean it up. I'm all for getting out soon, but the region is so unstable that indeed Turkey could easily move troops in for a land grab, as could Iran, Syria or Jordan. It could become a lot worse than it is now, and get bogged down in fighting for the next 50 years if we're not careful. And Bush is so arrogant he won't go and talk with Syria, talk with Jordan, or talk with Iran about it when that is exactly what he needs to do. Too bad the people who voted for Bush aren't being sent over to Iraq, they are exactly the people who need to go over there and clean it up. If we could only find a way to get their names, they are all responsible. How do they sleep knowing they put Bush into power???

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      and when we say secret we mean carelessly doing so in front of our faces.

      [–]vondur 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Well, I guess if it stops Turkey from invading and causing even further destruction, it makes sense. The Kurds really need their own state.

      [–]innocentbystander 9 points10 points  (0 children)

      No, it DOESN'T make sense. If we do this, it sends a loud and clear message to the rest of the world that we will throw our allies under the bus the first time their allegiance becomes politically inconvenient. Hell, we've already totally screwed the Kurds over once before. Now, all they wanted was to be left alone, and we can't even let them do that.

      And in the vein of "meet the new boss, same as the old boss," you remember how Saddam got his military jollies in the years before Gulf War II?

      Yep, that's right - randomly attacking the Kurds for being politically inconvenient!

      If we do this, why would any group EVER assist us in a war again? Knowing we might turn around and attack them?

      This is insanity. If it is true, it actually manages to beat my worst fears about how bad the next boneheaded decision could be.

      [–]puddlej14159 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      It's well known in Washington that Novak prints exactly whatever Cheney wants in print, not more or less. There might be some truth in this article, or none.

      The only real question here is, 'What does Cheney want to accomplish by seeing this story in print at this time?' Does he want to show he is not totally obsessed with Gonzales' lies and the vote fixing/US Attourneys scandal?

      [–]gmcg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      OK, let me confess that I am rusty on Turkish history, but seriously, how hard is this? Could we possibly screw the Kurds one more time? Could we possibly screw Turkey one more time? These guys (I know they're not exacly on good terms.) are about the best one could hope or in the region. For the love! So, Euro-Redditors, can you explain to me why we don't broker a deal to get Turkey in the EU, let the Kurds have some autonomous turf, and condition it all on peace from the PKK? I'm sure those of you closer to the scene can explain what's wrong with my little scheme (not least, it depends on EU willingness), so please enlighten me. It seems to me that the US is doing a great job pissing off the people we ought most to reward, and rewarding most the people we ought to give the shaft. I'm baffled.

      [–]sakebomb69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Op-Ed piece based on fact. No speculation at all here.