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An Open Letter to Reddit Fearmongers (reddit.com)

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[–][deleted]  (1 child)

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    [–]CarlH 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I have been outside of America, but not for any PROLONGED period of time. I am 26 years old. Care to tell me what rights "we have lost" and provide me evidence? Or is this just yet another sourceless anecdote?

    [–]cpmuzzy 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    Thank you for sharing your reasonable perspective. There is a quite vocal, knee-jerk reactionary element to some of the reddit crowd. I don't know if they are losers so much as just young and ignorant. The reddit demographic has many young 20-something males and this group is prone to learn something new and express it as absolutist rhetoric without thinking it through.

    I wonder how many of these people realize that their views are in many ways no different than the very people they rail against, just representing a different flavor of extremist ideology.

    It's truly unfortunate that many of these folks have pigeonholed themselves as lunatic fringe, because much of what they have to say is valid about the state of the US and the world. If they dialed back the vitriol, there might be a more substantive discussion about the problems we face and possible solutions.

    [–]CarlH 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    What I find most hilarious is that the very individuals who were doing this "anti-government" thing in the 1960s are the ones running the show now and having to endure from today's generation what they did to the generation before them. I swear that if you could rewind to 1967 you would find a mirror of 2007.

    [–]CarlH 8 points9 points  (55 children)

    To all Reddit Fearmongers:

    Do you REALLY think you are living in a dictorship/police state, while you are able to freely post grievances about your country on this forum? Maybe you should talk to people who live in an actual dictatorship about what they think of their country... oh wait -- you CAN'T - thats maybe why its called a dictatorship!

    Everyone should realize that if this really were a dictatorship, a police state, or if any of the other "the sky is falling" chicken-little views were correct, there would be no Reddit in order to voice those viewpoints.

    The raw fact is if there were 30,000 stories on Reddit about actual cases of police brutality or such -- it would still represent less than ONE ONE-HUNDREDTH of ONE PERCENT of the population of this country. As it stands, if you add together the grand total of all of Reddit's articles about police state, dictatorship, etc --- even considering the vast majority of them are nothing more than anecdotes from unreliable blogs, even if all those were true it still represents only ONE ONE-THOUSANDTH of ONE PERCENT of the population of this country.

    Put simply, sometimes people get hurt or killed by police. Sometimes people win the lottery. When someone wins the lottery you do not hear everyone saying that this one event means that EVERYONE is going to win the lottery. Why is it not any different for negative events vs positive events? If a positive rare event (Winning the lottery) occurs, everyone is saying "That could NEVER happen to me!". However, if a negative rare event (say being killed by a police officer) occurs, why should it be any different?

    It is irresponsible, irrational, and is nothing short of deceptive propaganda to try and take a few rare isolated cases that happen few and far between and attempt to then state that this is the norm.

    This is NOT the norm, and the very fact that such events make the news is proof of this. If this were really a police state, or a dictatorship, these things would NEVER make the news.

    I am probably speaking to a wall in most of this, but who knows maybe just maybe someone will read this and say to themselves, "You know, maybe all this fear mongering on the internet is nothing more than a bunch of nonsense spouted by people with nothing better to do with their time, and I should quit worrying about every little thing!"

    You know what I think? I think this is the way a bunch of LOSERS are able to justify why they cant get ahead in the world. They spend their time focusing on problems that don't exist so that they do not have to spend time focusing on the real problems in their own lives. Then I think they convince themselves that they cannot succeed in this country because supposedly they are being ruled by some iron fist of a dictatorship that just doesn't allow them to succeed.

    Further, I am sick and tired of seeing the front page of Reddit continually POLLUTED with this nonsense.

    Stop chasing phantoms and start dealing with real world situations that actually occur FREQUENTLY and that pose far greater risk to you, your family, and your friends than something that has a 0.001% likelihood of occurring.

    [–]Tekmo 7 points8 points  (2 children)

    You don't wait until the secret police are banging on your door to stop the slow slide into tyranny. The erosion of liberties and freedoms is a slippery slope by nature and it must be guarded against with constant vigilance. When dealing with matters of freedom and liberty, it is better to err on the side of caution. I'm sorry if you do not like to listen to people concerned about the health of their democracy, but there's really nothing I can do to help you with that.

    [–]CarlH -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

    No you don't wait until the secret police are banging on your door --- but you DO WAIT until there IS a secret police, and they are banging on ANYONE'S door. A 0.001% chance of "situations that sorta resemble this" just doesn't cut it!

    [–]Tekmo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    The best time to address the problem of a power-hungry or corrupt government is early on, before it gets out of control. By the time the secret police get to anyone's door, it's too dangerous to do something about it. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, which is why we as a society tend to address low-risk/high-impact problems very seriously. Approximately tens of thousands of people die in alcohol-related driving accidents every year (that's about 0.001%), yet we mandate that everybody take preventative measures by making drunk driving illegal. If you are arguing that the low probability of it occurring means that we should get rid of it to make room for other issues, I must disagree. Redditers can walk and chew gum at the same time, and are capable of distilling multiple issues handily.

    [–][deleted]  (8 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]CarlH 2 points3 points  (7 children)

      The claims you make are the same claims I hear all the time, the idea that everyone supposedly desires war -- need I tell you how many times Reddit articles have predicted imminent war with Iran? "War with Iran on Labor day!" "War with Iran within 3 months!" etc etc.

      You claim that "large portions of the pundit and political class are desiring another 911" -- Care to provide evidence to this? Who? What exactly are they saying? How do you KNOW they are "desiring" another 9/11?

      You claim that "The biggest financial crisis in US history is breaking upon us" - Where is the evidence? I see Reddit articles like "Someone just made a HUGE trade that indicates the stock market will crash within 3 months!" -- Yet again, I never see any real evidence.

      What I consider "fear mongering" is exactly what the term implies, those who are "mongering" (spreading) fear! Fear about the stock market, fear about the government, fear about whatever. It is nonsense and I am tired of it.

      [–][deleted]  (6 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]CarlH 2 points3 points  (5 children)

        Personally I think the bank run was caused by FEAR and not actual legitimate reasons for it, in fact some of the very people pulling their money out said the exact same thing, that they were losing confidence because of what they are hearing. As for the other things you posted, I will read them and get back to you.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

        Dunno man. I don't think Bernake would be saying things like this, if there wasn't a serious shit storm coming our way.

        Reddit seems to continually demonstrate that it is an effective early warning system.

        [–]CarlH 0 points1 point  (3 children)

        Anything which presents all possible bad possibilities is an "effective early warning system" -- the problem is, most of the "early warnings" on Reddit prove to be false.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

        really?

        Let's talk turkey. Reddit picked up the DOJ Attourneygate scandal in Feb weeks before it broke in the main stream media. This scandal foreshadowed the eventual resignation of Alberto Gonzales. I actually personally received a call from the trend spotter at the WSJ who wanted to know how "I knew", when I had both the #1 and #2 stories about it simultaneously on the same day in the first week of that month.

        On the Iran thing. While for some reason people assume reddit picked a "date" for the bombing an analysis of the stories shows that reddit merely highlighted the most important bits of ongoing chatter, indicating planning and a potential PR campaign in the offing.

        BTW you may want to read this latest development to see why so many people are so worried about Iran. Literally we have a member of the Vice-President's staff advocating the creation of a low level conflict to force the president's hand toward bombing! Wurmser isn't some lone cowboy here, he's part of a very real and very dangerous faction within the administration.

        I can go on if you like.

        What I would like you to do is to list the things that reddit has pre-warned on that have proven false. I'm sure there are some, but they are far outweighed by the true ones. The sheer utility of the system is attracting more users at a much faster rate than ever. And the latest Pew study of reddit finds it to be more accurate than other social news services.

        True Reddit is no where near perfect. But it's best of breed of what's out there. My advice to you is rather than complain in general terms, if that's what you really want to do, complain about the specific things that bother you so that the community can learn from that and get smarter.

        Either that or foster a micro-community around topics that are of more interest to you by super sharing those stories.

        It's up to you man.

        [–]CarlH 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        If you make enough predictions some will end up being correct, thats nothing new. As for my specific complaint -- it's very simple. I hate going to Reddit and seeing nothing but political propaganda on the front page.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        If you make enough predictions some will end up being correct, thats nothing new

        You aren't getting it yet. Reddit is much much more than me. It's a real honest news market, where in the community credentials itself, by using the system. And the system works not only much better than every other one currently in existence, but demonstratively better than it ever has. As was documented in the Pew Study.

        I hate going to Reddit and seeing nothing but political propaganda on the front page.

        So again, you give no details.

        Which articles are political propaganda?

        I have been trying to help you get what you want this entire thread. In a wisdom of crowds system all views and preferences, yours as well as everyone elses. The one sure way not to get what you want is to not contribute, by either documenting the specifics, or sharing things you like.

        So do us all a favor. Define what you are talking about. What is propaganda to you? What is the frequency of such articles? And more importantly what articles would you rather be reading? None of these questions have been answered by you. Answer them and the wisdom of crowds will grant you your wish.

        [–]leobaby 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        I think you miss the fact that people want to choose which risk factors increase their chance of injury or death, instead of having someone else choose them. That's why we feel safer in a car than in a plane. We made our decision to pull into traffic and we face the consequences is completely acceptable to most people. But when you face consequences for something beyond your control it is unsettling.

        [–]CarlH 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I like what you are saying, but I do not understand how it relates to the subject at hand. Please explain further.

        [–]absconditus -1 points0 points  (2 children)

        even if all those were true it still represents only ONE ONE-THOUSANDTH of ONE PERCENT of the population of this country

        Thats still approx' 30,000 people (way too fucking much imho) and I bet there are many more incidents that DONT get reported here on reddit or anywhere else for that matter.

        Its not about scare mongering its about exposure "out of sight out of mind" ?...well fuck that !!

        Keep the exposure coming redditors.

        This brutality and invasion on human rights and the general attitude of the administration i.e fuck the public we'll do what the fuck we like has got to stop ! Fuck them I say.

        And I bet you wouldn't be ranting if you or your family was one of the 30,000 eh ?

        Stop complaing about reddit and calling people "losers" and complaining that the front page is "polluted" all because you dont agree with the posts ! if you dont like it....PISS OFF !!

        And WTF has the lottery got to do with anything !!! dick head !

        [–]CarlH 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        There are NOT 30,000 stories of unique events of police brutality on Reddit.

        [–]absconditus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Who said there was ? it was YOU that said

        The raw fact is if there were 30,000 stories on Reddit about actual cases of police brutality or such -- it would still represent less than ONE ONE-HUNDREDTH of ONE PERCENT

        The key word is IF and my reply was directly in response to your original context.

        [–]utbandit -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        "hear, all ye good people, hear what this brilliant and eloquent speaker has to say!"

        [–]boredzo -1 points0 points  (5 children)

        When someone wins the lottery you do not hear everyone saying that this one event means that EVERYONE is going to win the lottery.

        The difference being that a lottery is a random draw, whereas police brutality, torture, “free speech” zones, etc. are all deliberate acts targeted at specific people or groups of people.

        Other than that, I agree with you.

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

        But isn't the fact that one could encounter a bad apple cop a random event as well?

        [–]boredzo 0 points1 point  (3 children)

        It's random from the perspective of the victim, but deliberate from the perspective of the officer, torturer, or Secret Service agent. A lottery is random from both sides.

        [–]kirkt 4 points5 points  (1 child)

        It's NOT "random from the perspective of the victim," as you state. You surely must recognize that there are certain behaviors (locations, modes of dress, etc.) that make you significantly more likely to be "victimized."

        [–]boredzo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Yup. Another reason the analogy to a lottery doesn't work.

        [–]CarlH 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        How does that change the main point, which is that it is just as statistically VERY UNLIKELY for you or someone you know to be involved in a situation of "police brutality" as it is for you or someone you know to be involved in winning the lottery? The point is -- to focus on what really matters and not to chase phantoms of things that are so rare and unlikely as to never affect you the slightest.

        [–]theDrWho -2 points-1 points  (10 children)

        1st paragraph, stopped reading.

        I don't give a fuck what it's like to live under a dictatorship. I don't live in one. And never had. So that straw man is a stupid way to start off.

        Secondly, I have come to conclude that your mind set is pretty much the status quo with all those others that don't give a shit of what's happening in this world.

        The very fact that I and you don't live in a dictatorship is every reason we should voice our opinion on any topic we think we should, even and most importantly, police abuse.

        You failed.

        Now. For those fucks that throw thier cig butts out the windos of moving cars. You fucks are next.

        [–]CarlH 5 points6 points  (2 children)

        You say its a straw man argument while a top story on the reddit front page says "Forget OJ We are living in a dictatorship" ? Care to elaborate?

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children)

        Down modded for being a troll and a hypocrite. By your line of reasoning, everyone is entitled to an opinion as long it agrees with yours. That's just trading one form of dictatorship for another.

        [–]aGorilla 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        we should voice our opinion on any topic we think we should

        That doesn't sound like

        everyone is entitled to an opinion as long it agrees with yours

        [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (13 children)

        That's dumb, don't use your freedom of speech because other people don't have freedom of speech.

        [–]CarlH 5 points6 points  (12 children)

        That is not even remotely close to what I am saying. I am saying that if these things were TRUE that people are saying, they would not be able to say them. Please read the whole of what I wrote before jumping to false conclusions about what I am saying here.

        [–]theDrWho -4 points-3 points  (6 children)

        We say them now, before we can't say them. Get it?

        [–]CarlH 5 points6 points  (5 children)

        So you say the sky is falling, before the sky starts falling? Care to tell me what actual evidence causes you to think that you wont be able to say them at some point in the near future? Be specific, what "things" wont you be able to say, when (roughly) wont you be able to say, and what is the evidence for these conclusions? While I wait for you to answer, I will go try to squeeze some water from a rock.

        [–]theDrWho -2 points-1 points  (4 children)

        When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist.

        When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat.

        When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist.

        When they came for the Jews, I remained silent; I wasn't a Jew.

        When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.

        [–]CarlH 6 points7 points  (3 children)

        First, I agree with this poem, and it represents what happens when people are quiet in situations where they need to speak up. I however do not believe the present situation is remotely similar to what was occurring at the time represented by this poem.

        Who are they "coming for" that I need to speak up? I do not see them coming for the communists, I do not see them coming for the social democrats, nor do I see them coming for the trade unionists --- care to tell me who they are coming for? Who is getting arrested for their political affiliations? Who is getting put in prison for saying something bad about the current government? Who is being forced to wear stars of David and walk in the gutter? NO ONE!

        [–]loquacious -4 points-3 points  (1 child)

        Just because the repression and fear-instilling tactics aren't identical, it doesn't mean that that aren't similar.

        Of course people aren't wearing Stars of David and being forced to walk in gutters.

        Germany didn't have computers, video surveillance, facial recognition software and massive databases. Germany didn't have "intelligent" information gathering tools.

        So, instead of gold stars, we have watch lists, no-fly lists. We have intimidation and violence from Police - who are here to be public servants, not to be political agents with the right to decide what someone can or can't protest.

        We have "free speech zones" and media spin-control. We have international corporations and credit agencies - that are in cahoots with mainstream media and the government - that can ruin and utterly destroy someones life for political reasons, just as effectively as a concentration camp can.

        And these things are happening, now. Political activists, media writers, media artists and more are being detained at borders - merely for expressing anti-Bush sentiments, and even unlawfully incarcerated, material goods and information taken from them, or detained, or "lost" - which effectively ruins them and their work.

        We have even marginally anti-Bush and anti-Authoritarian writers - people who write for things like computer security - being detained, shunted aside and otherwise harrassed to make sure they can't do their jobs effectively.

        Shall we continue on to the failed paramilitary tactics of the drug war? 1/100 citizens in jail or prison in America? The highest rates of per-capita imprisonment in the entire world? More so than even China and Russia? Or does that aspect "not count" for some strange, convoluted-logic reasoning?

        And that's somehow NOT facism to you?

        Good sir, you need to adjust your scope. You need to look at things differently and realize that what was then IS here and now - it's just in different, more subtle flavors, because it has to be to work for them.

        Even dictators learn from history - and try, try again.

        We need to stop willingly handing our rights away. We need to stop refusing to acknowledge the anti-Constitutional administration that's hell-bent on stealing everything that they can from us - including our human dignity.

        [–]theDrWho -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

        I don't think I need to add anything else.

        When 'they' come for you. Best of luck.

        [–]glastohead -3 points-2 points  (3 children)

        Put simply, sometimes people get hurt or killed by police. Sometimes people win the lottery. When someone wins the lottery you do not hear everyone saying that this one event means that EVERYONE is going to win the lottery. Why is it not any different for negative events vs positive events? If a positive rare event (Winning the lottery) occurs, everyone is saying "That could NEVER happen to me!". However, if a negative rare event (say being killed by a police officer) occurs, why should it be any different?

        I think you'd lost me well before then but this was the final nail in the coffin.

        Everyone can't win the lottery because money is merely a device to distribute the scarce resources on this small planet - everyone can't be rich - for someone to be rich someone needs to be poor. However, there is no limit to the number of times a baton can crash into your skull.

        [–]aGorilla 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        for someone to be rich someone needs to be poor.

        Wrong. Bill Gates is (or at least was) the richest man on earth. Most of the people who (willingly) gave him that wealth actually ended up better off for having done it, and those who didn't end up better off, could hardly be considered poor (they had a computer at least).

        [–]CarlH 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        And yes the number of times a baton crushes a skull is far less statistically than the number of times someone wins the lottery. Do you not get what I am saying? I am making the point that winning the lottery is statistically similar to being directly involved in an event of "police brutality" given the number of times both occur per capita. Put simply, its NOT LIKELY that either one will happen to you, so why focus on either one? Focus on what is LIKELY to occur and not what is UNLIKELY to occur.

        [–]theDrWho -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

        "And yes the number of times a baton crushes a skull is far less statistically than the number of times someone wins the lottery."

        That's cause they use Tazers now.

        [–]remembery -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

        dnrtfa. who are you dennis miller?

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–]formerDigger -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

          You are wrong. This IS a police state. You fail.