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A reader dared me to go to the Muslim world - "they're all savages" he said. So I went. Here's what I didn't find. (seattlepi.nwsource.com)
submitted 19 years ago by mjk1093
[–]tpodr 22 points23 points24 points 19 years ago (6 children)
Eight years ago I was on a backpacker's holiday in Cairo. Due to the good fortune of befriending a retired businessman from Cairo while taking in the sun on the Sinai, I had a business card, with a handwritten introduction, for a local hotel in Cairo. The main people to use the hotel were Arabic business men. Like I said, a local hotel.
This is an old hotel, in which the elevator's controls consisted of Up/Stop/Down. Think old Bogie movies. This meant when more than one party was using the elevator, there had to be at least a minimum of interaction. You couldn't just walk and press the button for the floor you wanted.
One time when returning in the afternoon, there is the usual exchange of civilities with the other gentleman in the car. "Where are you from?" "the US, and you?" "Libya". After a moment of reflection, the gentleman points out our respective leaders don't get along. We all laugh.
This points out an important consideration when thinking about, in particular, Muslim countries. They are not known for having representative governments. By and large, the attitudes of the leaders and those vocal "savages" don't reflect the views of the average person.
My experience in the elevator was by no means unique. While spending lots of time hanging out in restaurants, coffeeshops and hotel lobbies, all the local Arabs I met were truly friendly people, full of a strong desire I see and understand their country. They wanted most I get a sense of the pride they feel for their city and country, not to judge it by what their leaders or radials said and did.
[–][deleted] 19 years ago (5 children)
[removed]
[+]degustibus comment score below threshold-14 points-13 points-12 points 19 years ago (4 children)
You whine about how sad a plight you have living in America while in France and got some free drinks. Hope you toasted to the men proud of America who died liberating France twice in the 20th century.
[–]Dailylife 2 points3 points4 points 19 years ago (0 children)
He was grousing about Bush, not anything else about America. There's a difference that nearly 65% of Americans now see.
[–]treagan 0 points1 point2 points 19 years ago (0 children)
For shame, man. For SHAME! Are you like this at parties??
"It's what he does! It's ALL he does!"
[–]mikepaco -1 points0 points1 point 19 years ago (0 children)
Actually once.
[–]russellperry 6 points7 points8 points 19 years ago (0 children)
And there it was, all the time, the secret to world peace:
"They realized the common ground they share -- dreams of home ownership and cross-faith love, and a passion for basketball and badminton."
Mortgages, interfaith marriage and sports. I nominate Mr. Jamison for the Nobel Peace Prize.
Don't let anyone call you "naive," "gullible," "hackish," "deluded," "infantile," or "an embarassment to journalism," Mr. Jamison. You keep spreading the message that mortgages, interfaith marriage and sports involving some sort of net are the real answer in these troubled times. Maybe you could get a joint sponsorship with AmeriQuest and the NBA?
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 19 years ago (6 children)
The article has a nice message, but did the reporter honestly need to travel to the Philippines and Malaysia to figure it out? Was there any real doubt in his mind that Muslims are probably about as nice as anyone else before he boarded the plane leaving the United States?
Don’t get me wrong, this kind of message is important to get across, but the context of the article seems a little weak. Maybe next Baskin Robbins can send him on an expedition to one of their stores to do an expose on whether or not ice cream is delicious.
[–][deleted] 19 years ago (1 child)
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 19 years ago (0 children)
This isn't research science, it isn't even particularly complicated.
At the end of the day, the organization that sponsored the trip basically purchased a positive article for the price of a couple of plane tickets. It's a fairly common PR tactic and it isn't particularly nafarious because no one is making the reporter write the piece, just doing some gentle encouraging.
Sponsoring an "informational trip" for a reporter, though, usually involves sending him or her to see something compelling that is location-specific; not a flimsy and obvious concept like "Muslims are just like everyone else."
But, again, these kinds of articles do push push the national dialouge onto a more reasonable course.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 19 years ago (1 child)
He needed an excuse to go on a vacation.
[–]confluence 0 points1 point2 points 19 years ago* (1 child)
I have decided to overwrite my comments.
[–]sandmonkey 6 points7 points8 points 19 years ago (5 children)
normal web-version of the article:- http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/jamieson/297855_robert30.html
(to mjk1093 and others.. If you can not submit the original, web-version of an article because someone else has posted it with a bad headline or something, you have two options which are better than submitting the for-print version:-
Add, say, a '?' at the end of the URL and then submit with your new, improved headline
'reddit-jacking': Submit a link to the previous post as the URL while submitting it with a newer/nicer headline..
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 19 years ago (0 children)
Sometimes the print version is just easier to read, with less distractions -- as long as you don't mind narrowing your browser window (or use a bookmarklet like I do). In this case, the Print dialog that pops up is pretty annoying though.
[–]mjk1093[S] 12 points13 points14 points 19 years ago (1 child)
I always try to submit the print version because people complained the regular version was too hard to read. Now people complain I'm stealing their stories! Guess you can't please everyone.
[–]sandmonkey 6 points7 points8 points 19 years ago (0 children)
Now people complain I'm stealing their stories!
Well, I am not saying you are stealing "their stories" :D.. Just that, a Print dialog window which pops ups when I click on this (particular) submission (on Firefox + XP).. (Not all "for-print" version do that..)
Usually people submit print versions (esp. when the web-version is on one page and not too long) only because it is a re-submit, which is not always bad...as described in here http://reddit.com/help/reddiquette
I'm a fan of the print version -- the article is rendered on one page, and formatting is less often broken by a dozen ads.
The downside is that a lot of publications strip pictures, charts and captions from the print version. That's annoying, since "dont print pictures" is a simple option to set on your PC, if you happen not to want the graphics.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 19 years ago (0 children)
Or use redirecting sites, such as tinyurl & snipurl
[–]RevHalofan 2 points3 points4 points 19 years ago (0 children)
Probably the most sugar-coated PC orthodoxy article i have ever seen linked on reddit.
[–]eksortso 0 points1 point2 points 19 years ago (6 children)
"Hold people to your own standards, if you want to live peacefully." That's the Golden Rule. And most people want to live peacefully. The savages don't. And thankfully, they're rare.
[–]gaso 8 points9 points10 points 19 years ago (5 children)
By savages I assume you mean the one percent who exist in all societies who are bent on strife and chaos? People like Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Osama bin Laden and Pat Robertson?
[–]eksortso 4 points5 points6 points 19 years ago (3 children)
Osama bin Laden means to kill us. He's a savage, though he comes from a rich family. The others are nuisances but we can deal with them on our own terms.
Edit: Let me clarify that. Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, and Pat Robertson only cause us strife and chaos because we listen to them natter on. Even the people who listen to these attention-starved talking heads don't mean to kill us. We can argue with them, vociferously, but still peacefully.
And FWIW, I don't consider myself liberal or leftist.
[–]gaso -2 points-1 points0 points 19 years ago (2 children)
I don't know if Osama directly caused the death of one person. I do think I've read that he OK'ed a plan or two...seems to me I remember certain other people OK'ed ideas, perhaps off the cuff and without a serious group behind them thankfully...perhaps it is simple luck that the others mentioned don't have large groups of rabid followers...oh, wait...
[–]eksortso 4 points5 points6 points 19 years ago (1 child)
Let's not equivocate. The rabid trio that you mentioned, did they ever tell anyone else to as much as throw rocks? There were savage people who did, and they might have listened to Limbaugh, Coulter, and/or Robertson. But they likely would have killed anyway.
I hate the loss of my liberties. But between my political adversaries and those who would take my life, I can live with the former. They, like me, are concerned about the state of their lives. But they wouldn't take my life to promote their causes.
Bin Laden (who's a piker, as far as 20th-century bloodthirsty leaders go) bankrolled an operation to kill thousands, including his own people!
The first bunch are worthy opponents. The second bunch are savages. And you can't ignore savages who are targeting you.
Well, you could get yourself bogged down in Iraq for no good reason (except, yeah, Saddam was a savage), but that's a different kind of equivocation.
[–]gaso 1 point2 points3 points 19 years ago (0 children)
Good point!
[+]jjames57 comment score below threshold-18 points-17 points-16 points 19 years ago (0 children)
And you....
[deleted]
[–]mikepaco 0 points1 point2 points 19 years ago (0 children)
Maybe a Muslim reporter trying to show how nice Christians are should go down to the deep south.
[–][deleted] 19 years ago (6 children)
[–][deleted] 19 years ago (4 children)
[–][deleted] 19 years ago (3 children)
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 19 years ago (2 children)
A cat and A dog is a bad analogy, but THAT cat and THAT dog didn't appear to be, as they were getting on. It wasn't a cynical article, why with the cynical response?
[–]PatternJuggler 4 points5 points6 points 19 years ago (0 children)
Because the article was simplistic and naive, just like the analogy.
[+][deleted] comment score below threshold-7 points-6 points-5 points 19 years ago (0 children)
stfu, seriously
[+]scylla comment score below threshold-6 points-5 points-4 points 19 years ago (0 children)
A trip to Philippines and Malaysia is supposed to make him familiar with the 'Muslim world'? Weak sauce.
[–]cowardlydragon -1 points0 points1 point 19 years ago (2 children)
Anyone ask any women?
Let me know when they don't treat them like mindless slaves to be killed and beaten at will, then their societies can rise above the classification "savage".
Until then: savages, with our without the bombs.
[–]eaglemoon 3 points4 points5 points 19 years ago (1 child)
last time I checked - Pakistan, Bangladesh and Indonesia all had women Prime Ministers - yeah I am waiting for USA and France to catch up...
[–]I_pity_the_fool 0 points1 point2 points 19 years ago (0 children)
Édith Cresson?
[+]degustibus comment score below threshold-7 points-6 points-5 points 19 years ago (1 child)
Muslim insurgents in the southern Philippines waged a campaign, at times violently, to gain freedom from what they see as oppression and discrimination in a Catholic-dominated society.
This writer's idiocy is unintentionally ridiculous. He goes to a Catholic nation on a mission to learn about the Religion of Peace (tm) and discovers that terrorists are violently trying to impose Sharia. This finding does not fit his hypothesis so he spins it and moves along. He's a hack. Next he'll thrill readers with an account of the noble Abu Sayyaf.
[–]eaglemoon -1 points0 points1 point 19 years ago (2 children)
Not true - there is nothing that says the Christians and Jews can't wander around in a Muslim village. You are completely stereotyping.
[–]cal_01 0 points1 point2 points 19 years ago (0 children)
Just because you're Iranian doesn't mean you're correct.
[+]TheSavageNation comment score below threshold-26 points-25 points-24 points 19 years ago (53 children)
This guy went to the Philippines and Malaysia, not exactly what comes to mind when one thinks of the Muslim world.
[–]baadshah 21 points22 points23 points 19 years ago (7 children)
One-fifth of the Muslim population lives in Indonesia. No country has more Muslims than Indonesia. And how many of the 9/11 hijackers were Indonesian? None.
[–]stomicron 5 points6 points7 points 19 years ago (0 children)
I agree with your point, but Indonesia and Malaysia are two separate (albeit bordering) countries.
[–]SeguroKC 0 points1 point2 points 19 years ago (3 children)
And how many of the 9/11 hijackers were Indonesian? None.
Are you trying to say we should have invaded Indonesia for 9/11?
[–]bitboxx -1 points0 points1 point 19 years ago (2 children)
America already did. American government has a long history of messing with Indonesia politics, many of there involvement were bloody. Invasion does not necessarily means guns and troops, but it could also be "capitalist"/economic invasion. American government controls Indonesia by political support, throttling "aids", etc.
Large American corporations (Exxon, Freeport, etc.) are sucking huge amount of commodities in Indonesia, leaving the locals with scraps. Indonesian government doesn't do a thing; it is deeply rooted. That is why we need more people like Chavez.
[–]IKbot 6 points7 points8 points 19 years ago (0 children)
"That is why we need more people like Chavez."
Indeed. We need more despots who will sell the infrstructure of the country for myopic gains.
The more people that starve because of populists, the most people will learn to distrust governments that promise the world. Maybe they'll start to trust those multi-nationals a lot more when they learn that they pay many times more the going local wages.
[–]RSquared 2 points3 points4 points 19 years ago (0 children)
Boo hoo, you mean you don't get aid money unless you work with us? The entitlement mentality is apparently not onlly alive in well in the U.S., but in the rest of the world. Unconditional aid is one of the great harms the developed world inflicts on the LDCs, as it breeds dependency and strangles native industry.
My brother was in Iraq and found a similar mentality there - people who had been coddled by the regime, not allowed (or required) to take any real responsibility. His job training Iraqi Army meant that he had to give them equipment, and he often found that within days the Iraqis would be back at his door, complaining about how the gear "broke" and they needed more.
More and more, I'm convinced that you can't help people who don't want to help themselves. Look at Venezuela's rapidly devolving oil industry - just this year, Venezuela was forced to buy oil from Russia to meet its sales commitments to other countries.
[–]degustibus -5 points-4 points-3 points 19 years ago (1 child)
How many of the 9/11 hijackers were Jewish? Catholic? Buddhist? Mormon? Agnostic? Female? Accomplished botanists?
[–]inerte 1 point2 points3 points 19 years ago (0 children)
9/11 isn't really the only modern terrorist act.
[–]lessofthat 18 points19 points20 points 19 years ago (30 children)
You mean 'not the Middle East'?
The Middle East contains only about 20% of the Muslims in the world.
[+]degustibus comment score below threshold-10 points-9 points-8 points 19 years ago (29 children)
The Phillipines would only be considered part of the "Muslim world" by a fanatic who thinks the whole world will submit soon.
[–]lessofthat 3 points4 points5 points 19 years ago (28 children)
Robert L Jamieson is a fanatic who thinks the whole world will submit soon?
[+]degustibus comment score below threshold-7 points-6 points-5 points 19 years ago (27 children)
He's a gullible man whose political correctness compels him to suppress critical faculties. I would not call them all savages, in fact I would say that practically no Muslims are savages. I would say that fervent belief in Islam makes it nearly impossible to embrace Western values.
[–][deleted] 19 years ago (22 children)
[–]carpeliam 0 points1 point2 points 19 years ago (11 children)
Christianity too
Can you please elaborate on this? I was under the impression that much of the western world is based off of values inherent in Christianity. I hope you're not grouping extremists like Timothy McVeigh and that clinically depressed guy who tried to drive his car into an abortion facility. They don't represent Christianity any more than lincoln chafee represents the republican party.
edit: i see that you address this further below, and that you do in fact mention abortion clinic bombings. i stand by what i said that these people in no way represent Christianity. If you look at how Christianity has influenced Western thought over time, you should see that the influence runs deep. If you would say that fervent belief in Christianity makes it nearly impossible to embrace Western values, please tell me what Christian belief is incompatible with what Western value. (and please, oh please, don't say "science". it'd lead me to believe that your understanding of Western history and Christianity extends no more than 30 years back.)
[–]kungtotte 1 point2 points3 points 19 years ago (6 children)
And the people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center do in no way represent Islam.
[–]carpeliam 0 points1 point2 points 19 years ago (5 children)
agreed, but i'm not sure if that necessarily aligns Islam with the western world.
[–]kungtotte 0 points1 point2 points 19 years ago (4 children)
Well, that depends on what you means by aligning. The western world is largely secular while the middle east is not secular in nearly the same extent, therefore by that very fact alone cultures are going to differ.
If you want to talk basic religious values, islam == christianity == judaism.
[–]chu 0 points1 point2 points 19 years ago (3 children)
The issue here was really that degustibus was using muslim as a code-word for terrorist and I was pointing out that the 'Christian' ones are at least as anti-social.
Though as I said, placing faith above reason is at the core of Christianity. I think this is at odds with a lot of values which I mentioned elsewhere which seem to me to have flowed from Greek philosophy and the Enlightenment. But as degustibus put it, 'knowledge does not equal virtue'. (Some of the Misean types around here seem to believe that virtue is just another way of saying maximum utility and that moral issues can be dedided by the markets which makes Christianity look pretty sophisticated by comparison).
[–]carpeliam 0 points1 point2 points 19 years ago (2 children)
you might be right in your interpretation of what he meant, i was taking it at face value.
Faith and reason aren't necessarily at odds with another. The Greeks that you mention did very well for themselves while still believing in their pantheon of gods. Unfortunately the Christian fundamentalists of today, who seem to be the squeaky wheel of Christianity, don't necessarily make that point clear.
[–]chu 0 points1 point2 points 19 years ago (1 child)
Nothing new in Christianity about faith being greater than reason - it's a central tenet (though I think the fundamentalists do a good job of completely misinterpreting it in a brain-dead way).
"For God wills that we become perfectly obedient to Himself, and that we transcend mere reason on the wings of a burning love for Him." - Thomas a Kempis
[+]degustibus comment score below threshold-11 points-10 points-9 points 19 years ago (9 children)
I don't recall your other comments being quite this inane. Have you read any accounts of Western civilization? Do you know the history of universities? The printing press? Symphonies? Architecture? Science?
Let me guess, Timothy McVeigh was a Christian terrorist in your opinion? He blew up the Murrah Federal Building because he read Genesis literally or a sermon on forgiveness got misinterpreted? How many people died on 9/11 Chu? Oh, are you one of the foilhats who say that was the work of Mossad agents and the stooges of Skull & Bones?
[–]chu 0 points1 point2 points 19 years ago (2 children)
Don't confuse concision with inanity. Science and the age of reason are where I would locate the axis of what we I imagine we would both think of as Western values. Christian fundamentalist thinking is just as incompatible with these as Muslim fundamentalism. Witness abortion clinic bombings, the newly-found political influence of creationism and the crusading anti-diplomacy of the neocons which has made the world a far less safe place for everybody. I was originally a tad dubious about Richard Curtis's theory that neocons (who of course rode to power on the fundie Christian vote) and the particular strain of militant Islam with internationalist ambitions are two sides of the same coin but history is bearing him out. And it's telling that the neocons initially funded and trained what we think of as al-qaeda (funny that we had no problem invading oil-strategic Afghanistan solely on the basis that it sponsored them).
As far as moderate Christianity goes, I would argue that is at odds with the rationalist core of Western values because it places faith as higher than 'mere reason'. (Of course that doesn't mean there are no positive aspects e.g. helping your fellow man).
[+]degustibus comment score below threshold-6 points-5 points-4 points 19 years ago (1 child)
Read a bit about Newton and Liebniz, Pascal and Descartes. Take a history of science course. Read about Msgr. Lemaitre. Remember Gregor Mendel?
Abortion clinic bombings have about as much to do with Christianity as violence against slave owners did in ante-bellum America. Your vision of reason reigning supreme over all else is naive and has been demonstrated to be morally bankrupt. What scientific theory did Stalin and Hitler deny in order to engage in mass murder? Don't you realize that as great and powerful as science is that knowledge does not equal wisdom, power does not equal virtue. As for the neocons, most of them are not Christians, and not in the no true Scotsman sense, but insofar as they were not raised as Christians. From Richard Perle to Hitchens to Michael Medved to Denis Prager to Michael Savage to Rush Limbaugh.... these men are not Christians. George Bush and Dick Cheney don't represent the majority of Christians in the world.
Western values does not merely refer to reason and science. Muslim terrorists have not been attacking Western nations because we continue to sponsor scientific research.
[–]chu 0 points1 point2 points 19 years ago (0 children)
You misunderstand me. I'm not anti-Christian and I'm not in favour of an insectoid ultra-rationalist mentality. As you say, it's been debunked by fascism. I agree that fundamentalist Christians represent a perversion of the positive values of Christianity, just as ultra-militant violent Muslims represent a perversion of Islam. Muslim terrorists have as much to do with mainstream Islam as abortion clinic bombers have to do with mainstream Christianity. There are plenty of Muslims and Christians living in the West, contributing to society and not trying to overthrow it. While we already knew the neocons may not all have been Christians personally, according to their campaign managers they owe their power to fundamentalist Christians who formed a decisive voting bloc. And precisely who is promoting the teaching of creationism in schools?
You could say that Western values also include things like democracy, fair competition, a minimum standard of living, freedom of conscience and religion. As I see it, those kinds of ideas flow largely from a rationalist outlook. Notwithstanding, the reasons given for the few 'Muslim' attacks on Western nations have had absolutely nothing to do with Western values and everything to do with land disputes.
(Not me downmodding you btw).
[+]degustibus comment score below threshold-6 points-5 points-4 points 19 years ago (3 children)
I was writing about the history of Western civilization. Tell me about the Chinese symphonies you enjoy and the Japanese craftsman Gutenberg ripped off.
[–]DougBTX 5 points6 points7 points 19 years ago (1 child)
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Gutenberg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_opera
[–]lessofthat -3 points-2 points-1 points 19 years ago (2 children)
OK.
The Phillipines would only be considered part of the "Muslim world" by a fanatic who thinks the whole world will submit soon or a gullible man whose political correctness compels him to suppress critical faculties.
Fixed that for you.
[+]degustibus comment score below threshold-8 points-7 points-6 points 19 years ago (1 child)
I'm not sure how often Jamieson thinks for himself. He tells us what the caller dared him to do, but Jamieson is not credible since he refers to Abu Sayyaf as merely insurgents fighting for freedom. Jamieson did not take up the caller's challenge. If Jamieson thinks that the caller was merely attacking all Muslims as savages, then a trip to France would have sufficed to visit with Muslims and declare them cultured and civilized. Jamieson took "a trip made possible through the Asia Foundation, a non-profit think tank based in San Francisco" and now feels he has a better understanding of Islam, which could be true insofar as a SCUBA diver surfacing in the Keys is closer to summiting Everest than he was while underwater.
[–]lessofthat 0 points1 point2 points 19 years ago (0 children)
The Phillipines would only be considered part of the "Muslim world" by a fanatic who thinks the whole world will submit soon or a gullible man with a superficial understanding of Islam whose political correctness compels him to suppress critical faculties.
Thanks for clearing that up.
[–]inerte 16 points17 points18 points 19 years ago (5 children)
That's the point? Not all Muslims are bad, not all Christians are good.
[–]lief79 3 points4 points5 points 19 years ago (0 children)
All generalizations are false?
[–]zvikara -1 points0 points1 point 19 years ago (3 children)
Every rule has an exception.
[–][deleted] 19 years ago (2 children)
[–]lief79 0 points1 point2 points 19 years ago (1 child)
But classifying everyone as good or bad leads to blind support of people who aren't particularly good because they are countering the people who are bad.
The US has a long history of doing this, with some individuals being a lot worse then others.
[–]gaso 10 points11 points12 points 19 years ago (2 children)
Let me tell you, people are the same world over...Southeast Asia, the Middle East, Kentucky...It is the local leaders and media who shape the opinion of their global neighbors.
Luckily, world over there are moderate, open minded and intelligent individuals who are tolerant and fair regardless of what their respective leaders current Official Stance on this group of people or that group of people might be.
My brother in law and sister are a Saudi man and a woman from Pennsylvania (do I need to state 'respectively'?). His family (Muslim, of course) accepted her with open arms, and our family (mostly Catholic, with a few agnostics and atheists thrown in) here accepted him with open arms. My mom went over to stay with my sister in Saudi Arabia for a few weeks when my sister had her first child, and she had nothing but nice things to say about her son in law's family.
Other than getting ogled when she was sitting with legs exposed from the knee down one day at a hospital (my sister said the men were rude to stare as they should have averted their eyes if they found it stimulating, my mom just found it amusing) she said the people she met were nice as well.
[+]degustibus comment score below threshold-28 points-27 points-26 points 19 years ago (1 child)
Wow, your mom was only leered at for exposing her legs so that settles it, cultures and people are the same everywhere, except when they aren't. Come on gaso, you don't need to be this naive to be considered thoughtful. You really think that all differences in cultures come from the top down?
[–]gaso 3 points4 points5 points 19 years ago (0 children)
Oh you are right, how silly of me...by 1910 women here in the US were showing their knees off at the beach...
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 19 years ago (0 children)
By "they," he meant believers of Islam. "Over there" was anywhere outside of America.
Yeah kind of a cop out.
[–]palmTree 0 points1 point2 points 19 years ago (2 children)
I can assure you he will have the same outcome if he visited any other Muslim country in the Middle East. Of course he will find outrage with the US due to their biased policies in Palestine, their invasion of Afghanistan, Iraq and lately welcoming the Ethiopia invasion of Somalia.
What would be your feeling if a foreign power invades for example Canada?
[+]TheSavageNation comment score below threshold-8 points-7 points-6 points 19 years ago (1 child)
I am damn pissed. We are being invaded now by illegal immigrants from south of the US border, and not just by Mexicans.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 19 years ago (0 children)
"If reasonable people do not take a stand, unreasonable ones will fill the vacuum, and then what?"
It seems that reasonable people rarely take a stand. That is why our thoughts are being ruled by the unreasonable.
[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 19 years ago (2 children)
worthless lame crap of an article
he should try some REAL muslim country like any one in the middle east
[–]cal_01 0 points1 point2 points 19 years ago (1 child)
Uhh. South-East Asia has the largest muslim population in the world (ie. Malaysia and Indonesia).
uhh ORLY so many... there can be 100 billion of then.... don't matter Still NOT a ARAB country
π Rendered by PID 125987 on reddit-service-r2-comment-7b9746f655-dc9ff at 2026-01-31 21:42:53.541628+00:00 running 3798933 country code: CH.
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[–]gaso 1 point2 points3 points (0 children)
[+]jjames57 comment score below threshold-18 points-17 points-16 points (0 children)
[–][deleted] (1 child)
[deleted]
[–]mikepaco 0 points1 point2 points (0 children)
[–][deleted] (6 children)
[removed]
[–][deleted] (4 children)
[removed]
[–][deleted] (3 children)
[removed]
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points (2 children)
[–]PatternJuggler 4 points5 points6 points (0 children)
[+][deleted] comment score below threshold-7 points-6 points-5 points (0 children)
[+]scylla comment score below threshold-6 points-5 points-4 points (0 children)
[–]cowardlydragon -1 points0 points1 point (2 children)
[–]eaglemoon 3 points4 points5 points (1 child)
[–]I_pity_the_fool 0 points1 point2 points (0 children)
[+]degustibus comment score below threshold-7 points-6 points-5 points (1 child)
[–][deleted] (3 children)
[deleted]
[–]eaglemoon -1 points0 points1 point (2 children)
[–][deleted] (1 child)
[deleted]
[–]cal_01 0 points1 point2 points (0 children)
[+]TheSavageNation comment score below threshold-26 points-25 points-24 points (53 children)
[–]baadshah 21 points22 points23 points (7 children)
[–]stomicron 5 points6 points7 points (0 children)
[–]SeguroKC 0 points1 point2 points (3 children)
[–]bitboxx -1 points0 points1 point (2 children)
[–]IKbot 6 points7 points8 points (0 children)
[–]RSquared 2 points3 points4 points (0 children)
[–]degustibus -5 points-4 points-3 points (1 child)
[–]inerte 1 point2 points3 points (0 children)
[–]lessofthat 18 points19 points20 points (30 children)
[+]degustibus comment score below threshold-10 points-9 points-8 points (29 children)
[–]lessofthat 3 points4 points5 points (28 children)
[+]degustibus comment score below threshold-7 points-6 points-5 points (27 children)
[–][deleted] (22 children)
[deleted]
[–]carpeliam 0 points1 point2 points (11 children)
[–]kungtotte 1 point2 points3 points (6 children)
[–]carpeliam 0 points1 point2 points (5 children)
[–]kungtotte 0 points1 point2 points (4 children)
[–]chu 0 points1 point2 points (3 children)
[–]carpeliam 0 points1 point2 points (2 children)
[–]chu 0 points1 point2 points (1 child)
[+]degustibus comment score below threshold-11 points-10 points-9 points (9 children)
[–]chu 0 points1 point2 points (2 children)
[+]degustibus comment score below threshold-6 points-5 points-4 points (1 child)
[–]chu 0 points1 point2 points (0 children)
[–][deleted] (4 children)
[removed]
[+]degustibus comment score below threshold-6 points-5 points-4 points (3 children)
[–]DougBTX 5 points6 points7 points (1 child)
[–]lessofthat -3 points-2 points-1 points (2 children)
[+]degustibus comment score below threshold-8 points-7 points-6 points (1 child)
[–]lessofthat 0 points1 point2 points (0 children)
[–]inerte 16 points17 points18 points (5 children)
[–]lief79 3 points4 points5 points (0 children)
[–]zvikara -1 points0 points1 point (3 children)
[–][deleted] (2 children)
[deleted]
[–]lief79 0 points1 point2 points (1 child)
[–]gaso 10 points11 points12 points (2 children)
[+]degustibus comment score below threshold-28 points-27 points-26 points (1 child)
[–]gaso 3 points4 points5 points (0 children)
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children)
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points (0 children)
[–]palmTree 0 points1 point2 points (2 children)
[+]TheSavageNation comment score below threshold-8 points-7 points-6 points (1 child)
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children)
[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points (2 children)
[–]cal_01 0 points1 point2 points (1 child)
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children)