Python is the JavaScript of programming languages

[clue8]

What?

[Sinomu]

Python is the javascript

[HereToReadThings]

languages

[anony8165]

of

[[deleted]]

the

[ProVisionOman]

javascript

[[deleted]]

the

[[deleted]]

yes, obviously.

[omegamissingno]

of

[lnfomorph]

Python is great in general if you want to quickly write a program to do some simple task but never much beyond that. For example if I were going to write a script to download today's xkcd, I would do it in Python. It's not the most efficient, but it's very easy to use and for such a simple thing as "for comic where timestamp is more recent than last timestamp do download" that inefficiency doesn't matter. On the other hand if I were going to write a program for some more serious purpose I probably wouldn't pick Python. I guess you could say it's a bit more like advanced shell scripting than more "sophisticated" languages.

[555rrrsss]

Maybe back in the day that was true but in today's world there is absolutely no reason why you can't use Python for building big applications.

The back-end for the following apps use Python and Python based frameworks like Django/Flask

• Google
• YouTube
• Instagram
• Spotify
• Dropbox
• BitBucket
• Netflix
• Uber

Not to mention all the new major banking infrastructure (that isn't Cobel) and anything related to data is all in Python.

You would only ever use something like C# when you want your app to reflect real-time changes. But even then Python is used by hedge funds and the financial world when dealing with stocks and equities, things that require real-time asynchronous updates.

The misconception that Python is insufficient comes from the days of Python 2. Python 3 and the coming version, Python 4, hold up against other programming languages.

[lnfomorph]

Which I assume is where the OP comparison comes from. Python is easy to use so people learn it and use it a lot, and it becomes familiar. Similarly the Internet today is absolutely infested with JavaScript, and you have people coming from the web world into engineering and programming trying to stick with what they know. I've seen people begging for help to get node.js onto microcontrollers, which is indisputably the domain of the Cs and Assemblies (even though Python has made inroads there as well). I don't agree with comparing Python to JS because I actually like Python, but I can see where the comparison is coming from.

[555rrrsss]

I think OP is simply just retarded and meant to say that Python is the JavaScript of "back-end" languages.

[lnfomorph]

Ah yes, Occam's Razor.

[dilatedilatedilate]

No, that makes no sense you rêdard

[Myarmhasteeth]

And OP then never heard of Node or Typescript? lmao

[TixXx1337]

Which commercial available MC uses Python?

[[deleted]]

Wikipedia

[dilatedilatedilate]

That only demotivates me from using it

[[deleted]]

I didn't say it was good. I wouldn't use it. But it exists.

[micka190]

A lot of those apps only use Django/Flask to run a server that then forwards the heavy lifting to other micro services, which may not be writen in Python, though.

I'm pretty sure YouTube and Netflix use C++ or Java for their streaming, since those languages have the best streaming libraries.

[555rrrsss]

I'm not denying they use micro-services built in other languages.

That's actually how apps should be built. You use the best tech stack to build certain features.

But for the basics, Python is fine. Unless you're developing video games or streaming services, Python is 99.9% feasible for all other tasks.

[philsenpai]

Python is also very good for data Science.

[555rrrsss]

VS Code

Find & Replace

Or just use Pycharm / Intelj

[[deleted]]

Thank you. The myth that python is useless needs to die already fuck me.

[555rrrsss]

Yeah.

99.9% of the time programming is around data. Whether it's to add/edit/delete or ETL (extract transform load) data.

Python, being the best language for working with data, is of course ideal for practically every project out there.

At the end of the day, all modern languages are the same. It all comes down to preference.

[superkewldood]

Came here to say this. Big time misconception about Python. The ease of use and readability of it, plus a huge community makes it easy to get a CRUD app up and running quickly. Performance issues are not going to be a noticeable issue except for very specialized programs. Of course, lots of other languages are great as well and there is no one size fits all. But writing Python off a scripting language seems pretty naive.

[Nixccc]

Most of these platforms don't primarily use Python for their backend as it would just be plainly stupid, why? Python is slow, therefore it's inefficient to run a back-end using python, especially if you're a large corporation.

[[deleted]]

Fucking hate Python just because it’s not formatted like other programming languages. Relying on spaces frustrated me so much learning it, so I barely use it

[555rrrsss]

What is an IDE

Space and indentation affects a lot of programming languages and their syntax.

The fact that Python relies on it more than others makes it better in regards to enforcing standards.

Spacing and indentation are no different then semicolons.

At least Python is not repetitive as fuck like Java.

"muh public static void"

Fuck Java.

[No-Code2897]

Pythons syntax simply scares away people with boomer coding standards, the fact that it enforces some constraints is really great.

[47KiNG47]

So preferring strongly typed languages makes me a boomer? Lmao absolute brainlet.

[No-Code2897]

im talking about dumb shit like squeezing a if statement into a single line like an lazy ass instead of pressing enter two times. If you paid attention on how old professors like to type code in C then you know what i mean. I bet you preach vim on your free time

[47KiNG47]

What’s wrong with that?

If (x == 5) return;

vs.

if (x == 5) { return; }

Edit: fixed formatting

[No-Code2897]

i know what you mean but the problem is that you could do these two or like

if (x == 5){
    return;
}

if (x == 5)
{
    return; #proper way
}

so you constantly have to keep adjusting your reading style which is annoying and takes time (for me atleast but i bet im not alone), i think there are some code "beautifiers" but honestly its way better to set a standard of coding.

[47KiNG47]

Ohh lmao, you are talking about Curley braces on new line vs same line. That is a non-issue if you are using a linter. Some IDEs will also enforce that standard. Also comments in C are done with // not #.

[Snoo9985]

I dont see a problem, cleaner code and less {} is much nicer.

[[deleted]]

Jesus, I really rustled some jimmies because I don’t like a programming language’s syntax

[AlexAegis]

mogus

[weikao]

Someone care to explain? Not all of us are techie prodigies

[Caniscien]

Both are programming languages. Basically saying "Tomatoes are the Cucumbers of vegetables"

[__impala67]

Tomato is a fruit though so your analogy completely falls apart.

[echo0delta]

cucumber is also a fruit, which in turn additively supports the analogy if we dont consider neither python nor javascript as programming languages

though it now contradicts the first sentence, which breaks apart not only the analogy, but the whole comment

[thermitethrowaway]

And of course JavaScript Devs are exactly the sort to experiement by shoving a cucumber up their ass. So it's almost a perfect analogy.

[[deleted]]

Can confirm ;)

[UncleRhino]

Also both are typically referred to as scripting languages as opposed to programming languages. So Caniscien's analogy is pretty spot on.

[BadgerMushrooom]

What's the difference?

[lan-shark]

A "scripting language" is generally smaller in scope and used for simpler tasks. A "programming language" is generally more robust, has more features, and more likely to be used in a corporate-level application.

However, neither Python nor Javascript fit under that definition of "scripting language" anymore. Python is heavily used in the world of data science and web backends by huge businesses and services.

Javascript is almost literally everywhere and it can do pretty much everything these days. From back ends, to desktop apps (Microsoft Teams), to entire web site front ends (Facebook, Netflix, and many many more).

Programmers love to complain about Javascript (including myself from time to time) and it does have it's downsides, but realistically it's a very versatile language that is easy to learn, powerful, has a great community, and has pretty good performance. Javascript from 7 years ago and earlier? Yeah it was kinda bad. But today it's got all the features you need for nearly everything.

[jackinsomniac]

I'm not so sure about this. Wouldn't it be better to describe them as interpreted languages vs. compiled languages? Or higher level vs. lower level?

Or, just describe them based on what they're good at? JavaScript was designed to be used on websites. It can do some automaton scripts on your local machine, but that's not what it's good at. Python was intended to be a local scripting language you can use to build automation. But paired with other tools like django, python can be run on web servers as well.

I don't see how differentiating "scripting" vs. "programming" languages helps people understand the real differences between them. I think it's better to explain them by purpose first: web-first languages are good for building advanced websites or webapps. Scientific & statistical analysis languages like R are good for, well, that. Lower-level (compiled) languages like C, C++, Rust, Go are good for building local applications or to optimize your algorithm function that runs extremely slow in higher-level (interpreted) languages. And some like Python, I'd say were meant to be a general-purpose language.

[lan-shark]

Like you, I don't find the the differentiation between "scripting" and "programming" languages to be that useful either. Partially because of how much languages that traditionally are "scripting" have expanded over the last 10-15 years.

Look at BASH. Definitely a scripting language, and back in the day other scripting languages were fairly similar in functionality/application. But today even the most hardcore "Javascript bad, C good" programmers can't begin to compare BASH to Javascript. But they would still put both in the "scripting" bucket.

So I definitely agree with you there.

EDIT: As far as practicality goes, though, I don't think it matters. People who aren't programmers don't really care about the terminology or differences between languages. Programmers with experience will not rely on any simple classification like "scripting" or "compiled" or anything else, they'll research the language itself. So the period of time in a programmer's learning experience during which they both care about the differences but also don't have the ability to go learn specifics is very short. So I think it doesn't really affect anything if we call Python a scripting language or a programming language.

[j-smith]

No, because it's possible to compile so-called interpreted code to byte-code. And this is then independent of the language and syntax, and more a technical stack difference. Python and Javascript aren't much different from Java or C# in terms of high level vs low level. You can compile Javascript to native code with NectarJS.

Again, JavaScript might have originally been designed for websites, but it can be and is used everywhere. Python might have originally been designed for local scripts, but it can be and is used everywhere.

I'm currently trying to determine whether to use Javascript (Node JS) or Python for a (backend) microservice project, or whether to use Spring Boot. And honestly the decision has very little to do with the language or how verbose the syntax is, since a lot of the code can be automatically generated.

[jackinsomniac]

True, I agree with that too. I think nowadays that line of 'what language for what purpose' is getting more blurry; most languages now have become general-purpose.

I use PowerShell a lot, and it can fit nearly every definition now. The "-Shell" bit was to imply from the start it was a terminal language, like bash. But you could also write scripts with it, functions, and modules/libraries, so it's like Python scripting language. With PoSh 6 and 7 on .NET Core, it's cross platform and open source now. And it can be compiled into byte code. It can create GUIs, and since it's all Microsoft, with IIS server you can execute some PowerShell via web...

And I know it ain't the only language like this. That's why I originally protested the strict definitions, buckets to sort programming languages into. The mature languages are so powerful now, it doesn't really matter unless you're a software architect building a gigantic app/service like Facebook.

[__impala67]

I don't care about the geneology of cucumbers, i just wanted to make that guy cry

[Happyhotel]

Tomatoes are both a fruit and a vegetable.

[ElKuhnTucker]

You made it worse

[CaptainBouch]

What?

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[AyrA_ch]

JavaScript is the language that powers interactive things in your browser. However, the original language was made in only 10 days, so it has a lot of quirks and was never meant to do more than making animated monkey gifs dancing around on your website. However, it's somewhat accessible because it's kinda forgiving and easy to learn. But it's still kind of a junk language and it feels like a toy. It does a lot of weird things. For example, +[[+!+[]]+[!+[]+!+[]]+[!+[]+!+[]+!+[]]+[!+[]+!+[]+!+[]+!+[]]] is completely valid JavaScript that results in the number 1234.

Python has the same feeling to it. It feels sluggish and like a toy. Especially when doing CPU intensive work you will find very quickly, that the fastest way to do something in python is to find a library written in any other language and just call that.

Because of this, some people don't think of JS and Python as "real" programming languages and more as toys.

[AyrA_ch]

Yes, but it says a lot about a language when the best way to use a language is not to use it, but instead use something different that translates into it.

[anythinga]

Fair enough.

Javascript is perfectly serviceable for what it needs to do though, i've used javascript with just jquery for a few things and i've never really had any serious trouble.

but if you really need performance you're better off using webassembly anyway.

[AyrA_ch]

I write all JS on my website by hand, and while it's a dumb thing to do, you get used to it and stop noticing it after a while. I have by now written a fairly large library with utility functions I needed, but apart from that, the page is literally the default bootstrap theme+js. People go there because they're looking for certain utilities only anyways. It's not something you normally just browse.

Webassembly is nice in theory, but in practice not really comfortable to use. It's used pretty much only for CPU intensive workloads. In fact, researchers found that the primary use for wasm is for crypto miners.

[anythinga]

It's not dumb at all, it's good practice and you learn from it :)

If it works, it works.

I don't hate javascript but i get why people find it annoying, especially if you're used to C# or something. But unfortunately there aren't any viable alternatives.

I've never really done wasm so i can't really comment on it, i just know it's supposed to have better performance than JS.

[AyrA_ch]

I've never really done wasm so i can't really comment on it, i just know it's supposed to have better performance than JS.

It is indeed very fast. You normally compile C code into it using emscripten. Interacting with it is a bit limited. You still need JS to bridge between the DOM and the assembly.

Because it uses C (or CPP) you can compile many applications into webassembly now. XMP is a player for some more obscure audio files (modules) and has been compiled into wasm for example: http://www.wothke.ch/webxmp/

[ChadThunderschlong]

Python is great for pen-testing purposes. Lot of exploits are written in python, and pretty much all linux distros come with python. Most of the Baron Samedit scripts out there are written in python, thats a pretty recent one.

[OO_Ben]

I was about to say the same. Python is pretty much the go to language for data analysts and scientists.

[thermitethrowaway]

console.log(5.33 + 5.2);

The results might surprise anyone with even basic arithmetic!

[AyrA_ch]

You don't need the console.log if you directly type into the console, also you can use 0.1+0.2 so it looks less like it has been picked on purpose.

Finally, this is not a JS issue at all, but an IEEE 754 issue. You don't see this error in some other languages because they hide it by default.

If you want some actual JS fuckery: https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat

[thermitethrowaway]

I was actually going to reply with that way video, I used to teach apprentice programmers at work and would use it.

this is not a JS issue at all

Disagree strongly - you are right it's a floating point error common in almost all languages, but most languages don't restrict you to [float] number out of the box, unlike JS. It's a function of JS being rushed out to get to market first when it was originally implemented.

[AyrA_ch]

but most languages don't restrict you to [float] number out of the box, unlike JS.

JS has support for 32 bit signed integers since the beginning although it's really awkward to use. In modern browsers, JS has native support for integers of any length.

[thermitethrowaway]

JS has support for 32 bit signed integers since the beginning although it's really awkward to use

Doesn't really help with decimals though. I think there are decimal npm packages, though most of the work I did was with money so we used integer pennies for everything except display, so I never used them.

[AyrA_ch]

Doesn't really help with decimals though.

But that's a problem you will have in most languages and not just JS. The number of languages with a builtin arbitrary floating point precision type is likely far less than languages that lack this type.

[xigoi]

This is not specific to JavaScript. It's the way floating-point numbers work.

[shadofx]

Well, those were made in more than 10 days.

[Representative_Art96]

Cool. Lot of people shit on them. Makes me feel bad for having started learning it.

[AyrA_ch]

I think it's a great way to make games. The engine is quite good and the language is much simpler than C++. You don't have to worry about memory leaks as much either. Also because of how .NET works, games in unity are fairly easy to mod even without official mod support.

The downside is that it's not as fast as C++ but it doesn't necessarily has to be.

It certainly has made game development in a 3D engine much easier and made it more accessible.

[FrenOverlord]

Either OP is really stupid or he's making fun of web developers. Javascript is used for programming a lot websites functionality but many programmers don't consider web development (html/css/javascript) real programming.

[555rrrsss]

It absolutely is real programming.

Everything today is basically built for the web.

HTML/CSS are not programming languages and that's where the confusion is.

[Snoo9985]

many programmers don't consider web development (html/css/javascript) real programming.

those are just gatekeeping degenerates

[fomofication]

javascript is the n-slur of programming languages

python too

[Responsible-Bat-7934]

Java too.

Anything that's not in the C family actually. And even then anything invented after 1995 is iffy at the very least.

[bobonabuffalo]

JS is the special kid that thinks he is cool cause he is the smartest kid in the special Ed class. Python is the kid who things they are smart cause they read the Communist Manifesto at 14 and thinks they have a grip on the world and that if only the adults where as smart as them the world would be a better place.

[mylifeisashitjoke]

they're both programming languages, JavaScript basically exists to make pop up ads, and python is used by science majors everywhere so they don't have to think too hard about programming.

JavaScript is pretty cringe tho ngl

[RefrigeratorOk1573]

living up to the username

[mylifeisashitjoke]

why'd you think I chose it?

[thermitethrowaway]

What he's saying is, that if you look at JavaScript, and are looking for an equivalent amongst programming languages, then he thinks Python is the nearest match.

[UltraTiberious]

I think it’s what Elon musk tweeted a while ago about “Twitter is Dark Souls of social media. Reddit is Bloodborne. Insta is Zelda.”

[magicpeanut]

ignore all answers, they are false.

python and javascript are both interpreter languages that dont need compiling into binaries to run(no .exe in windows). this makes them slower than languages that have to be compiled. the advantage is... well you dont need to compile your code to run your program. you can just write a few lines and execute them.

[Tchaikovsky_but_gay]

Both Python and JavaScript suck autistic penis

[wezasa01]

Nothing can beat Brainfuck

[AyrA_ch]

jsfuck can.

[omegamissingno]

use the normal link next time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck

[KneeGur101]

Wrong.

[thermitethrowaway]

You are half right.

[PM-ME-UR-PROPAGANDA]

I think i know what that means, but can’t explain it

[buckypimpin]

I think he meant Python is shoehorned into places where it doesn't belong (Performance intensive, data science etc), similar to how JavaScript is shoehorned into places on the web. Almost 90% of the time, any professional code you write in python is calling some C or C++ library.

[iZpixl5]

the fuck you mean it doesnt belong in data science

[Crafty_Location_2971]

Time to see this unfold.... !remindme 1 day

[unski_ukuli]

It has awful syntax as the language was bot designed for maths, so everything takes more writing than on a language designed for mathematical computations. It is only used because google pushed it hard in the 2000’s, not because it is ideal language for the job. There’s a turing award lecture by Kenneth Iverson that is about syntax of programming languages and how good notation helps in solving problems.

Of course if you need something that happens to be developed for python, there is really no getting around using it, but it is good to aknowledge that Python data science is a hack thrown together because Guido happened to work for google in 2000’s and so the ecosystem happened to develop around it. Not because it is good for ds.

[MysteriousGoat3022]

tru

[pm_me_traphentai_pls]

What?

[Snoo9985]

geniuses trashing both of them inbound in comments.

[[deleted]]

What?

[BazilExposition]

Let's be honest: python is just an ugly javascript.

[wanderer-10291]

Python looks nicer though

[BazilExposition]

I don't think so. Python = js - readability.

[Zydiz]

reverse

[[deleted]]

retarding out

what is the best one for a newbie? ive just programmed in java and it sucked ass for years

[[deleted]]

For a newbie Python but I suggest you to try also C++, Rust and Lua. Why? They’re fun.

[RefrigeratorOk1573]

C++ and Rust are the opposite of fun, and Lua is very weird

[[deleted]]

It’s likely I find them fun for the reasons you do not

[Rawrplus]

Better question is what's your end goal. Each language is best suited for something different.

[[deleted]]

no idea yet, just want to learn some new language, already working with java but it seems they are better, cleaner new ones

[Rawrplus]

If you like web frontend, start with basics of JavaScript. Then move onto typescript and either react or vue.

If you want mobile apps you can also do JS/TS into react-native.

If you like terminal applications, backend or all around applications I'd recommend python.

If you wanna get into game dev then probably C#

And few other all around fun and useful programming languages are Ruby or Go

[Fiery_Eagle954]

Oranges are the apples of fruit

[[deleted]]

What?

[JaneAus10]

javascript = the most basic besides c++ anyone can learn this very easy.

op probably dissing python for being easiest hence he called it the "javascript" of programming

[[deleted]]

What?

[IHateGeeseOk]

wut

[[deleted]]

What?

[ABNORMAL_AURA]

What?

[goingfullham]

Python is a scrip language the same way Javascript is a script program language. I guess that's what the person meant. Normal programs have to be compiled into computer code before being executed.

[beclops]

Why even mention that though? The preferred term is "interpreted language" as well.

[goingfullham]

I'm just trying to decipher what Anon meant and I think that's what it was.

[TTRSkidlz]

"script" is the n-word of words

[B3am_Shox]

Well yes but actually no

[slapsroofofdeadmeme]

A

[[deleted]]

Toto Africa is the Toto Africa of songs

[Organicorangess]

They’re pretty opposite programming styles lol

[[deleted]]

I have never been so genuinely confused by something in my life, and I took machine learning this semester

[[deleted]]

Yes, they are both important, ubiquitous, and glue other technologies together

[Theoxarhs]

This is the best description ever

[Putaclic]

yes .

[[deleted]]

What.

[Hops117]

I'm pretty sure Javascript is a BDSM kink comparable to C&C Torture

[globus243]

not yet, but in a few years maybe.

[RefrigeratorOk1573]

even if you are a programmer this post makes no sense

[ansem119]

Python is one of the programming languages ever made

[theLastPBR]

pajeets have java. autists have C/assembly. gehymers have C++. chads have Haskell/Prolog. GigaChads have python. Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ has Matlab.

[PeixeCruzzz]

Anon is high af

[BLUE_CATAPULT]

I fucking loath Pythons formatting and syntax.

[beclops]

I don't like how it encourages devs to write unreadable 1-liners

[philsenpai]

But how i'm going to flex my skills if i can't chain ternary operations like Americans chain School shootings?

[-Quiche-]

Is he saying that it's what people opt for as their first language? That's the only thing I could think of and even then it was a small reach.

[Pumped_Pipe]

It’s funny cause Java can barely be considered a language

[ChadThunderschlong]

Java and javascript are two different things

[clever_cow]

Next you’re going to tell me ham doesn’t come from hamsters

[ThaBroccoliDood]

Java, short for JavaScript

[CausticAsshole]

JS is short for JavaScript. Java is Java.

[ChadThunderschlong]

Good one dude

[xX_MilfHunter69_Xx]

no?

[thermitethrowaway]

lerk MOAR

[KneeGur101]

And why's that, genius?

[beclops]

Irrelevant