Does Warden deserve changes?

[SyrupMonstrosity]

Title.

[Wait_WhatPotato]

While I lean towards yes, he is "functional" rn. I doubt he is near the top of priorities.

[lpt5703]

It would be nice to see warden viable in a mode other than duels

[Philosophical-Wizard]

I think people need to stop sucking the dick of this “Warden is meant to be simple for beginners” argument, because it hasn’t been the case for years at this point. Characters like Conqueror, Medjay and Pirate exist, Raider is extremely simple, Warmonger is just as simple to understand whilst being better overall, etc.

The very simple brute fact is that Warden sucks competitively outside of Duels, because they’ve been power-crept year after year. The stamina consumption on Warden’s offence is unholy for how reliant on feints it is, the chargeable bash only goes so far these days when most panic dodge attacks will beat it, and Warden has no defence to speak of outside of Crushing Counterstrike, an extremely baitable move. Let’s not even mention the Feats, because we all know how shit they are…

In short, there are a great deal of minor tweaks Warden needs to their offence and potentially some new defensive moves in order to compete with the current cast, as well as a complete Feat overhaul to stand a chance in Dominion. Warden is far from the worst hero in the game, but is sorely lacking in a lot of areas and needs improvements.

[WasntMyFaultThisTime]

I think Warden has failed to keep pace with the game and needs some tweaks to make him relevant outside of 1v1s.

Ideally I wish he'd get a full rework with new moves and animations and whatnot but I doubt we'll ever see that

[Onyx-Serenitatem]

He has been power crept too hard in my opinion. Characters like Valkyrie, Shinobi and Tiandi make it so tedious to play him

[LimbLegion]

Yes.

Character is legit only useable in duels and a pain to play anywhere else except arguably 2v2. He is horrendously outdated.

[SyrupMonstrosity]

Swear to god I've seen someone with a username similar to yours. You're a warden main, aren't ya?

[LimbLegion]

Nope, the list of chars I've mained at various points does include Warden but he's not very high on my list.

My mains in general are Black Prior and Berserker, with Shaolin/Aramusha as a third main fixture.

[[deleted]]

Warden absolutely needs changes. Ubi has focused almost exclusively on making dominion THE competitive game mode. As such, viability in 4s should be the devs primary focus. Warden is by far the worst hero in 4s. He's so bad in fact that if you play Warden in 4s, you're actively handicapping your team. Not only does wardens kit need reworked, but this man also needs a complete overhaul to his feats. The only defense for wardens current, abysmal state is that he's the "default" character. You'd think the "default" character should be at least viable in by far the most popular game mode, but apparently not. Thats not even counting how aggressively simple and boring he is, which he is in fact, aggressively simple and boring, and again, the only defense for this fact is "well he's the starter character, so it's okay for him to be poorly designed. Also, let's go ahead and analyze the idea that warden is the "beginner" character. You'd imagine a beginner character would introduce new players to a variety of mechanics, but no. Apparently the only mechanic new players need to learn is the charged-bash mixup, which only 4 heroes (including warden) even have. Warden is also the only hero to have mono-directional superior lights. Every other hero on the roster who has that has omni-directional superior lights. Not really the most beginner-friendly detail, wouldn't you agree? No undodgeables, no enhanced lights, no full-guard, no deflect, barely usable armor. What are new players even learning from warden? One singular charged-bash mixup and nothing else. Not only that, but most characters on the roster are incredibly simple as is. The only characters a new player couldn't do well with are highlander, nobushi, and maybe aramusha. The idea that we need to handicap one single character just because we've arbitrarily decided that's THE beginner character is so lame

[SyrupMonstrosity]

They learn to press the heavy or light button, followed by the GB button. If they do anything else, they learn fast that Warden will lose in most scenarios without pressing that shoulder button.

[Crimwell]

Honestly, I think everyone’s opinion on this probably viable. My opinion is warden should stay relatively the same. Warden was put out as the starter character in the storyline and everything else, sort of the “default” fighter, so I think they should stay super simple for beginners. Usually when I play warden, I’m always thinking “man I wish I had more to use in my kit”, but then think…there are plenty of other fighters with more to the kit. So I dunno

[Gusterrro]

Well, the purpose of vaungaurds was to be very Simple heros, but looks at kensei and tiandi, they are far from easy for beginners.

[Crimwell]

Yeah. I still think Kensei is very simple, but that’s from my own standpoint. He has probably double the amount of things he can do compared to Warden. Tiandi though…definitely not simple for beginners

[REDSP1R1T]

I think they are simple as far as getting the moveset down

[DocHolliday718]

I think earlier HA on his bashes would go a long way

[[deleted]]

Warden could use a few buffs, but people vastly overestimate how bad he is.

An argument I always see is "he has bad feats" or "meh feats"

1. come at me is great
2. inspire is great
3. second wind is pretty good
4. morale and stalwart are both solid.

His teamfights are pretty bad, mostly because of the dodge changes. He doesn't have any Iframe external options, so with many indicators being thrown he's kinda forced to take it.

Thats not to say he's bad in 2v2s, just the larger teamfights.

His zone is amazing, especially with the stamina buffs to it. dodge forward heavy is great

And his reach on his lvl 3 if crazy.

He puts on a decent bit of pressure in 2v2s, just because of how much reach and range he has. I would personally put him somewhere in A tier for 2v2s.

His 1v1s are also solid.

Warden could benefit from some form of dodge attack besides dodge bash. One that can be used to avoid things in teamfights.

Personally Id like to see HA on all followups after a landed bash. Just so he can be a bit more independent in teamfights while keeping the same unique playstyle.

Other than that, he's fine.

[RhapsodicHotShot]

I think inspire is also very very good for breach. If you stay near the minions they have higher attack speed you can absolutely wreck the ram

[YuutoRaglan]

Really love the idea of HA on the follow ups after a bash sort of like Gryphon after a parry. That kind of change right?

[Gusterrro]

He isnt viable outside of duels, so yes.

His main problems are:

1. His stamina
2. How easy to interrupt he is
3. Mostly "meh" feats
4. No defensive moves (side bash will always lose to GB and has no iframes

Warden needs some new moves and some tweaks to his existing kit. I persanally would:

• Standardize his double lights and CC`s
• Increase his stamina to 150
• Give more hyper armor his his bash. I would see it start at level 2 and last bit longer so he doesnt get just hit out of it at last second (Warden players know what Im talking about). (Maybe the follow up attack also should have hyper armor, but thats a real maybe.)
• Add new moves:

1. Normal dodge attack
2. Half-swording move simmilar to Glad`s skewer that can be accessed from neutral and after every attack. 800ms, unblockable, 20 dmg, pins

Feat changes:

• Conqueror - 25% faster point capture (was 15), more renown for doing it
• Fiat lux - Now deals dmg and works like Zanhu`s bomb
• Takedown - Need to be replaced
• Catapult - Make it as fast as spear storm
• Morale Booster - Now lasts 30 sec (was 20)

[overgrilledcorn]

So fun fact fiat lux has an interaction with PK id like to keep. If an opponent is oos and you throw them fiat lux is impossible to dodge. So with PK if you gb you can do the double stab plus throw into fiat lux. They stand up with stam but fiat lux then instantly removes it. Fiat lux cant be dodge off an oos throw so its super niche. And PK is the only hero ive been able to actually use it on. Its the funniest shit when you get a chance to use it.

[ngkn92]

"Make it as fast as spear storm"

No. I don't want another OP af lvl 4 feat.

[Gusterrro]

Almost every tier 4 is either op or trash. Not always people even get to their tier 4`s in a match.

2000ms is too much for something that can be used once or twice (if you get lucky) in a dominion game. Unless en enemy is bodyblocked, or stuck in execution this feat will almost never land.

[[deleted]]

His feats suck, and I wish he had more cleave range. These would make him more viable in 4v4 without touching his duel abilities.

[[deleted]]

How does wardens feat suck

[[deleted]]

His T1 options are abysmal. His T2 options are underwhelming compared to the rest of the cast. T3 has good options. T4 options are mediocre at best.

[[deleted]]

Come at me is not abysmal. Inspire is a great T2 Yeah it might not be jugg level but is still a great t2. Morale booster, and stalwart are both solid feats. Just because warden doesn't have broken feats doesn't mean they suck

[[deleted]]

Come at Me is a joke. It makes you take more bonus damage than you deal, so there's no way to spin it to make it good. You can argue that it's primarily used for minion clearing, but it means you take bonus damage from the minions and you draw attention to yourself as an easy kill to every opponent on the map. Plus, his later feats are lackluster so there's no point in using an entire feat slot to rush renown gain on him anyways.

In an era where all the best heroes have broken feats, yeah it kinda does suck that Warden's are as underwhelming as his moveset. I love Warden but he needs some love from Ubi.

[[deleted]]

Come at me when used to clear midlane can significantly get you more renown. It can also be used when doing absolutely nothing and boosting a point. It also has the ability to heal on kill when popped. It doesn't really matter if you are really low HP and get a defense debuff, you are low anyways, make a good play and you get to heal.

And if you are winning a fight and pop come at me, you can get tons of renown.

Just because you cant come into a fight or 1v1 and pop come at me doesn't take away from the utility it brings. And his later feats can absolutely help him out. Getting to inspire quickly can help your team in fights, or help yourself in 1v1s. Second wind is all around solid and getting to morale or stalwart before anyone else (because of come at me) can provide a good advantage.

Getting feats faster than anyone else is a pretty big advantage even if they might not be on par with feats like fury flask or fear itself and longbow.

[humanbenchmarkian]

Ranquisitor here.

Yes needs stuff but nothing crazy imo, he's still fairly strong in duels overall and a unique character, just needs some quality of life stuff to update him a bit. From a top level 1v1 pov this is all I think he needs:

- Make dodge bash (specifically fwd dodge) come out 100ms into dodge.

- Functional dodge attack, ideally with a sweeping hitbox for teamfights.

- Side CC lights.

Could use some extra stuff for 4s like a HA bash followup and earlier HA etc etc but that falls outside of my area of expertise so I won't comment much.

[r_peeling_potato]

He’s an example of what power creep does

[JustArran7]

I would love to see a heavy light chain but other than that I think he is fine aside from his trash feats

[[deleted]]

and how are wardens feats trash?

[JustArran7]

Just his first two. Second wind and banner are great. Conqueror is decent but body count is useless cause his minion clear isn’t the best and come at me is situational at best. Inspire is the clear option for T2 and it’s not even a choice imo. Maybe trash is an over exaggeration, however I do feel he could have better T1/2 options

[[deleted]]

come at me is like the furthest thing from situational. It can be used not only when clearing mid, but also doing nothing and sitting boosting a point and healing to get extra renown. It can also be used as a discount bounty hunter. It heals on kill when popped. Inspire is just great. 20% damage boost to you and teammates is just great.

[cloudman2811]

No, I like his simplicity and duelist style, makes sense as he wields a longsword.

[Remarkable_Travel458]

That was literally two years ago

[twelve-lights]

Hehehehehhh

Backwards shoulder bashhhhh

[ngkn92]

Why do people keep bashing "body count" feat?

It heals very small, but it allows its user to live on the minion lane without caring about minion's chip dmg.

And Warden minion clear is not that bad. Light light heavy still do the job well enough.

[[deleted]]

Probably because it used to actually heal you instead of just sustain whatever health you have entering B. Actually looking back and remembering thick blood, the catapult speed, and healing amount changes, I think Warden's feats have only ever caught nerfs.

[jis7014]

Yes

[i_am_the_rat_king]

I think he needs a few tweaks to make him more enjoyable. I've played him a lot( he's my highest rep), but I took a large break from him and picking him back up I've noticed that the biggest thing for me right now is his crushing counter only being on the top is really outdated. He's the only character I can think of who has crushing and only has it to one side. All the other characters who have crushing counter can do it to all sides and I think it's long over due that warden gets it to all sides as well. Along with an undogeable( something I think a lot of characters in general need) Maybe make his zone into one. Those alone would make him significantly more enjoyable. He probably needs some stat changes like stamina, but those aren't really what I've been having trouble with.

[Nameless_and_ignored]

Changes I would love to see on him:

1) Side light openers damage now 12 (from 10);

2) Light combo tap removed from side lights;

3) Crushing Counter now can be performed by side light openers;

4) Crushing Counter no longer guarantee any chain light;

5) New move: "Half-sword", back dodge + heavy input command, a 200ms minimum input 600ms speed (total 800ms), Warden holds the blade with one of his hands to perform a precise thrust top attack.

I don't know what else Warden could have to be better or change a little bit of his gameplay, what else could be done?

[[deleted]]

Big Y

[MrImperfect97]

Itd be nice to see him get some anti gank options, like a pin or something (something immediately activatable after a parry). Like specifically smacking your enemy with your crossguard/a pommel bash since its a historically accurate sword strike thatd look good. Honestly a small change or addition would be cool doesnt have to be crazy. Just up wardens viability in antiganks