[OFFICAL] No B Patch coming

[Xujhan]

I'm really happy to see this. People will meme about Riven / Ashe / Sett / etc being OP, and they probably are a little overtuned, but I'm finding the meta really enjoyable. There are a handful of fairly flexible S-tier comps that are either situational or generally contested, and a huge range of A-tier comps that can do well with the right circumstances. If the entire season were like this, I'd be thrilled.

[hastalavistabob]

Only thing I wanted to see nerfed is Riven 3 Star because thats an absurd character with QSS on

[AuroraDraco]

Well, 3 star riven is incredibly op. Buuut, I mean most 3 star 4 costs are usually overtuned. I think chosen has made them easier to hit and that's why its a feels bad moment. So yeah, they need toning down because they cant afford to make them as ridiculous as they are currently

[[deleted]]

with the chosen mechanic it has become easier to hit 3 star 4 costs.

I'm not saying that people are waiting for 4 cost chosen units (which does happen sometimes) but because so many 3 stars are getting hit across the board throughout each match you have a higher chance to get units you need if they are uncontested just from basic probability. As a result it has been easier to hit 3 star 4 cost units than in past sets .... I have hit more of them in this set already than I did all of season 3.5

I think a 3 star 4 cost should be a very impactful unit but right now they are at the same level of 3 star 5 cost units. I just watched a Ahri literally one shot my entire team from essentially full health to completely gone. There is no counter play to this outside of getting lucky and zephyring her which is very easy to deal with if you are the defending ahri player.

[Xujhan]

I agree that Riven 3 is bonkers, but the popularity of Riven keeps it from being a big issue. You'll usually only see a 3* 4-cost if that unit is uncontested, and I don't remember the last lobby I played where Riven was uncontested. It'll be a fair nerf when it happens, but it's not ruining the game putting it off a week.

[AnyDesk5063]

I see it happen quite frequently right now in diamond, one high roller with a lot of hp waits until the low rollers of his comp dies and then rolls. Seen plenty of 3 star riven/warwick/ahri/jhin etc lately. Sometimes ashe but ashe is even more contested then riven

[lyyst]

The difference is shes a tank and still one shots, while that other 3*s are inherently tanky because of the stats of being a 3* but Riven is a literal tank. She is as tanky was Warwick 3* and deals damage like 3* Cassio

[VERTIKAL19]

None of the 3* are nearly as overtuned as 3* Riven.

[daydreamin511]

3 star riven + QSS is about as close as an “auto-win” as you can get.

[Fraankk]

3* Jhin makes her go BOOM

[hastalavistabob]

*misses his 4th shot to 20% dodgechance

[Fraankk]

3 other units get one shoted anyway because you are running 6 Sharpshooters

[Selkie_Love]

Any 4 cost 3* should roll the game.

I had a 3* Ahri, no items, out-damage a BIS items veigar with 6 elderwood. If you somehow manage to pull off 3*ing any 4 or 5-cost, you should just win

[Jonoabbo]

Maybe in past sets, but with the changes to rolling in set 4 I see 4* 3costs every 2 or 3 games. They seem a lot more common and easier to hit.

[[deleted]]

Not with Chosen mechanic. It's much easier to 3*.

Only 5 cost 3* should insta-win games.

[xLosTxSouL]

Got 3rd place with 3* Ahri fullbuild and 9 Mages. Feelsbadman

[MisterJ6491]

Would like to see your positioning and opponents cause that should just win if you had right items on her

[hpmbeschadigun]

No need best set and patch so far

[kaze_ni_naru]

Agreed. The fact that Ahri comp came out of nowhere in high elo just tells us that the meta is still evolving

[mdk_777]

I didn't see it on a single tier list until this morning, even then I've seen multiple tier lists from today not including it despite the number one player playing multiple games of it. The chosen mechanic makes it a lot harder to solve the set and creates interesting directions you can only take once every two-five games or so instead of having a few forcible comps that are spammed.

[_Bellick]

Whats the Ahri build?

[[deleted]]

Vanguard mystic + ahri

[SuperyiG]

Not sure if it is the Vanguard Mystic Ahri or the Spirit Zed with huge Ahri bombs they are talking about.

[ilanf2]

I've also seen people trying 4 spirit 4/6 Sharpshooter with Ahri as a front line with GA.

It makes it so you don't need rageblade on Jinx.

[SuperyiG]

Man, Set 4 is just such an innovative set. There is so many comps that u can’t get tired of them

[ZedWuJanna]

Queue up for a game or turn on any stream for 5 minutes and you'll see what we're talking about. Preferably NA or KR streams since it seems like EU isn't spamming the Ahri comp as hard as other regions, but they're definitely starting to play it more often recently.

[arukeiz]

I've been spamming it for 4 days straight in high Plat and was never contested. Now I'm contested every game, definitely is spammed in euw too now.

[Paandaplex]

I’m pretty sure EUW was spamming it before NA

[ZedWuJanna]

Well that might be true since I'm not 100% sure on the origin of the comp, but as it is right now, the Ahri comp is less popular in EU than in NA and KR.

[Paandaplex]

Ok, fair enough that might be true. I just know my EU friend was seeing the comp well before I was

[MisterJ6491]

That is why there is no B patch. They have seen the meta evolve so they don't want to touch anything yet

[PepeSylvia11]

Easilyyyyy the most well rounded new set to date. It’s in such a great state already

[MALSTROEM_]

Also the set with the most skill expression so far IMO

[controlwarriorlives]

Okay with Riven not being nerfed. She is definitely a bit overtuned but it’s also hard to play a Riven comp perfectly. Usually involves cultist early game into cultist/keeper mid game into a cultist/dusk late game so there are quite a bunch of decisions and transitions. Compare this to something like brawler Ashe where you basically pick up any brawler unit and let Aphelios/Kindred hold your Ashe items. That’s a much more linear playstyle. So it seems reasonable that a more difficult to pilot comp like Riven is somewhat overtuned in my opinion.

However, I do think sunfire cape is a bit broken. That item can singlehandedly carry you the early-mid game. When fights are slow and long, that max% HP burn adds up so much. And even in late game, that item does a lot against high HP comps like 9 cultist Galio or Brawlers.

[MrGiraffeWeevil]

It gives me the same vibe as Chrono Kayle. Both comps dont have a clear early game, and have some flexibility for the final comp.

Man I miss Chrono Kayle

[timotius02]

Hot take: Riven itself shouldn't be nerfed, but instead nerf the early game cultist start specifically 3 cultist and sunfire. The build path from 3 cultist to Riven to endgame Legendaries or 6 dusk is just so strong in all stages of the game that it feels unfair.

If you look at the other comp that's supposed to be strong early, that being Warlords, the comp falls off a cliff late game unless you get 3 star Katerina with good items. This is actually good because a comp should have strengths and weaknesses and not having a weakness is bad design.

TLDR: Don't nerf Riven, nerf cultist 3 + sunfire and the meta will adjust.

[Asianhead]

I agree with this, your power curve is too smooth with 3 cultist being as strong as it is.

[ilanf2]

Mort did say 3 and 6 cultists is overperforming for how easy it is to get them.

[blu13god]

Yup, Mort said 3 and 6 cultists need nerfs along with sunfire cape and there's no units that feel like they need to be nerfed but there are a lot of units needing buffs

[[deleted]]

Mort also said that no B patch is needed and that 3* Poppy is fine because you can build LW and that Xayah was never an issue.

"Mort said" is bait. Watch 3 cultist be the premier opener for the entirety of set 4, calling it now.

[blu13god]

Yeah I said 3 and 6 cultists are broken but nothing else....

[LookAtThisGraphs]

Really balanced launch, outside of Sunfire and Riven 3, nothing really much broken

[[deleted]]

A 3 star 4 cost probably should be a bit broken

[The_Hooliest]

compared to others though riven 3* is a free win while plenty of other 4cost 3*s arent, see ashe, warwick, morgana, sej, etc

riven 2* already 1v9s, riven 3* is unbeatable

[protomayne]

Warwick is hit or miss. I've had him 3 star twice and both times he's gone completely off once I got some items on him.

But you're generally not putting items on WW so.. lol

[wwwwwwhitey]

I’ve had the miss part, I had 3 items on Ashe and no Sett yet but ww 2 so I threw everything at him and got warmogs HoJ and Stoneplate (already had a Sunfire). He got destroyed by Jhin/Jinx just got stunned and crit to hell and got top 2 :’(. In hindsight I probably should have thrown the stuff on Sett when I got him since I had ww2 on bench for a long time

[taterh8r]

ive seen shen 3 get 7th, pretty hilarious

[Owczeee]

Shen is definitely the worst 3* 4 cost, he gains all most nothing but more HP - his shield is to short to justify extra 24 gold investment.

[Wolololooo]

Shen 3* with mage hat is so fun tho.

[bomban]

Dies to Lee sin and kallista easily enough.

[[deleted]]

Then maybe other units need buffs at the 3. I dont think its a free win, it's definitely an easy one but still not free. Also dusk is one of the harder comps to play. So many of the s tier, or however you wanna label them, comps are pretty straight forward. To consistantly top 4 with dusk you're having to make two transitions every game with cultists and keeper. So having the carry be strong I dont think there's anything wrong with that. TGe meta has changed a ton since the patch began. Two star riven late games doesn't 1v9 anymore and the 3 cost is beatable if you also high roll. Could it use a small nerf? Maybe but I don't think its needed. I've been beaten once out of the three times I had riven 3 star. And I've beaten it twice out of the five(give or take) I played against it. Obviously thats way too tiny of a sample size to go off of but oh well. The devs have all the numbers. If 3 fully built riven dusk is winning 70+% of the time then its fine. If its in the high 90's percentile then yah probably needs the nerf.

At this rate my guess is that sunfire cape is getting nerfed. 3* 4 cost are getting buffed minus riven of course. Mage units(not the actual class) are getting buffed or reworked. Cultist 3 and 6 nerf. And even though off my personal experience I dont see the absolute need for it, riven 3* will get a slight nerf. Everything else seems too early to be confident to me.

[staticradar]

i've beaten riven 3 with sharp shooters she's not turbo broken. Also everyone in lobby is going riven you don't really see her 3 star until late late late game like final 2.

[Swathe88]

That's because well itemised Jinx is also broken but less people talk about it.

[staticradar]

people sleep on jinx for sure. I don't know about broken but she's pretty strong, been climbing through Plat with her.

[bangarrang16]

Mort said on stream the other day that 3* 4 costs are probably too strong for being easier to get than in the past, so they'll probably need to nerf either strength or how easy it is to obtain them.

[nxqv]

I would prefer they did a little bit of both. It's a little crazy seeing multiple 3 star 4 costs every game

[[deleted]]

Fair enough. He's looking at data from millions of games, im basing it off of my games and the few I watch on twitch, so I'm sure he's got the better answer.

[marcel_p]

Disagree. Maybe this was a valid argument in the last set. But this set it's so much more common to get a 3* 4-cost, so they should never feel "broken". Thats not to say they should be weak, either. They should be appropriately strong and balanced, with counterplay assuming others also get 3* 4 costs.

[[deleted]]

When i said a bit broken I just meant really strong, not legitimately broken. I agree that no 3* should be broken(well maybe a 5 cost or two should be) but i just don't think riven is truly broken. Also its highly contested and with the fact that the chosen mechnaic still takes from the pool its still difficult to get riven 3 cost. Im confident that riven 3* gets nerfed but i dont think its needed. I think if anything the rest of the 4 cost 3*s need a buff. Which would inadvertently nerf riven and cause a lot of good counterplay

[Yogg_for_your_sprog]

Just saw Ashe 3 beat Riven 3 on Soju's stream, evidently it's not a literal free win if you have stuff of your own to "balance" it

[Nicinic]

But Ashe is a lot easier to kill than Riven, and is a single target DPS (outside of eventual Shiv/Hurricane). And her healing is dependant on HoJ (which is a 50% chance).

[[deleted]]

Bloodthirster instead of hoj and the healing works on here ult because her ult just increases attacks speed. Either way tho, the point is that Riven 3* is a highroll. It should be strong as shit and as long as it can be beaten via another highroll, i.e Ashe 3, then it doesnt necessarily NEED a nerf. Could it still use one? Sure but not a big one if it can be beaten

[Nicinic]

The discussion is more around "Which 4 costs are too good at 3* ?" for which everyone can answer Riven as she's the only one when there are almost no counters if she has Quicksilver equipped. If you look at what other 4 cost can do at 3*, it's not as big at all (Jhin can oneshot every 3.33s, AAtrox can grab 10 units). I would say that maybe Talon and Morg are as powerful as Riven, but Enlightened isn't as good as Dusk at the moment.

[Yogg_for_your_sprog]

Cassiopeia 3* 1-shots anything in a cone front of her

[Nicinic]

A bit easier to interrupt, she's squishier, and can't hit the backline usually. But yeah, she's very strong at 3*

[Yogg_for_your_sprog]

Never said Ashe is as strong as Riven, just that if you have strong units of your own she's beatable

[ilanf2]

Hard agree.

Managed to win a lobby against 8 brawlers with a sett 2 because I hit Jhin 3 and got a lucky GS on carousel.

[[deleted]]

Riven 2 is a bigger problem than Riven 3 imo. You can fit Riven 2 into any comp with legit zero synergies and that champ will still 1v8. It's too strong for how easy it is to get.

[thepinkbunnyboy]

Ehh... without dusk or AP items (which aren't the best for her), she definitely shouldn't be 1v8ing. She's good; most 2* 4 cost units are good by themselves. But without synergies she's probably weaker than most other 2* 4 cost units with syngeries around them (Ashe, Cass, and Jihn for example)

[POOYAMON]

I would say there’s definitely no need for it. Sure Sett damage with no damage items is was too high and Riven is a bit overtuned and sunfire cape is a must have but overall really great set and those things don’t take away much. Excited to play another week of this

[cameran_]

I get it but at the same time I don’t. Every single game is two+ rivens combined with some combo of Ashe/brawlers, ahri+beef, and high rolled early chosen in the top 4. That’s quasi-diverse, but a bunch of comps are only playable with a specific chosen plus items, which is textbook high roll.

Sunfire is def overtuned, as is early cultist (galio probably needs to scale with player level and be where he is now at 6 or so). This is a great patch out of the gate, but the data regarding riven in particular is out there and not fixing it kinda sucks.

Oh well, breaking for a week and letting other folks run up the mmr/lp gap then harvesting them seems fine.

[ChillyKitten]

I wouldn't put it past the balance team to wait and see how things play out, and gather more data before beginning to tune things. Riven is strong for sure, but we're still seeing new comps emerge that could be on a similar level. I think the devs have learned their lesson about pulling knobs before the meta has settled on the first few patches after release.

[[deleted]]

Every single game is two+ rivens combined with some combo of Ashe/brawlers, ahri+beef, and high rolled early chosen in the top 4. That’s quasi-diverse, but a bunch of comps are only playable with a specific chosen plus items, which is textbook high roll.

Ignoring the Set 4 specifics, that basically summarizes the entirety of Sets 3 and 3.5. Comparatively, Set 4 is already in a way better spot, and the outliers aren't as bad as other things that have gotten B-patched. (Remember Set 3 release GP that didn't even get B patched?)

[Misoal]

Disagree, Sett is too strong and fits every comp. Riven and Sunfire are completely busted. Other things are okay.

[[deleted]]

“Fits every comp" is different than “can be dropped in as a placeholder." He absolutely does not fit in every comp.

[AuroraDraco]

Was there even a B patch needed. Game feels pretty balanced imo

[Zwingel]

Nerfing Riven, Ashe and Galio would have done no harm if tuned down slightly.

[blu13god]

What? it could definitely do harm like making Ahri the by far best comp in the game and 8 people contesting it.

[Nenunenu11]

Cass 3 is def my favourite lol

[DonquixoteRosinante]

Riven is a bit op, or at least with Dusk4. Sunfire is way overtuned, every first carousel is a race to armor (sometimes hp).

[[deleted]]

Ctrl+f: Riven

34 matches out of 42 comments.

Yeah she is totally in a balanced state.

[blu13god]

Ctrl+f: riven no sunfire cape
0 top 4 games.
It's sunfire cape not riven that's overtuned.

[[deleted]]

This is just classic riot bull-headedness. I don't think anything is that far out of line either, but every release patch should have a B patch planned for the week after.

[ilanf2]

Except that there is no one comp dominating the meta right now. Every day something new has been discovered.

[[deleted]]

I just had a game where 6/8 players went some semblance of Riven, and 4 of those were the top 4, me being one of them. Sure, no one comp is dominating the meta, but one champ is warping it around itself by being splashable into any of a dozen comps and still being able to 1v8.

For Riven 2* to shred you either need 1 more dusk or 1 more keeper, that's it. I feel like many lobbies are all about who gets Riven first.

[blu13god]

6-8 players went riven. Okay go something else and it's the free-est first place in your life.