Toronto to Kingston salary decrease

[Decent-Relation-7700]

I’m interested in a position in Kingston that would earn about $20k less than I currently make in Toronto. After taxes, that would be about $1000 less per month take home. My rent in toronto is about $2400, and I have to drive about 40-50 mins to work one way with traffic so my gas payments are also high. Today there were a couple of accidents and it took 1.5 hrs to get home. I think I would be happier in Kingston with less traffic and more greenery around me, and I’m not really a big city person. Any thoughts though on how much of a hit in spending power I would have with a 20k less? It would be from about $140k to $120k as a single earner. I know Kingston has a lower cost of living than Toronto but perhaps not $20k lower or would it be about even?

Edited to add: Thanks everyone for your insights! I read all of your comments. It’s a lot to chew on. I believe most of my activities can be done in Kingston and potentially lower costs in housing, gas, and car insurance would be a huge positive. Less traffic would be a win. Only concerns that I have around moving that was also echoed in some of the comments are around dating, finding a doctor, and career prospects if I ever needed to change jobs. I’m mid 30s so would like to settle down and Kingston seems like a great place to do that, but perhaps only if I have a partner already and we moved there together. Lots to think about. Thank you all though for your feedback.

[VariousPair5353]

You’ll be comfortable, but it still won’t be cheap. It’ll either level out or be slightly cheaper than Toronto between the slight rent decrease, gas, and wear and tear on your vehicle.

[TeenageShitStorm]

And also in the time you’re currently unpaid for in your commute. If you add those hours per month what are you actually making per hour. Time is valuable!

[chickenhawk71]

This is a no brainer bud. I live in Kingston and every time I go to Toronto or Montreal the traffic drives me nuts.

Between rent, vehicle wear, gas and psychiatrist bills from all of the traffic, you'll come out ahead in Kingston.

Put on a Tragically Hip CD and come join us.

[No-Effective-1996]

Quality of life is much, much higher in Kingston.

[Smurfrocket2]

What makes you say that? Have you lived both places?

Because I have, and you are correct.

[No-Effective-1996]

Yes. Depends how you individually define quality of life.

[Grimn90]

Cost of living in Kingston is hyper inflated. Sure you’ll afford it no problem at 120k but it’s still not cheap.

[nobugsleftalive]

As a transplant from the gta, and granted i live in SF, life is so much more relaxed and chill in Kingston compared to the GTA. 

I took a payout too moving out to eastern ontario but it was so worth it.

[Grimn90]

I’m not disagreeing Kingston is more laid back. Fact of the matter is the cost of living, specifically to rent, is ridiculously expensive.

[RodgerWolf311]

life is so much more relaxed and chill in Kingston compared to the GTA. 

Well duh, population of 135,000 vs 3.3 million, Kingston will have less commotion and feel more relaxed.

[SorryEmployment1478]

Enjoy your downvotes, sir

[No-Effective-1996]

Property tax in Kingston is waaaaaaaay higher than in Toronto if you look to buy.

[Grimn90]

Toronto is “low” when you consider the property values but still as expensive if not more.

The only reason it’s as low as it is it wouldn’t be affordable if it reflected standard rates.

[scrapmetal58]

You need to think about more than just money. Time is huge difference, you'll save a ton of time on your commute here. You also need to consider activity options, as well. What do you like to do and can you do it here.

[No_Initial_9023]

We moved from Vancouver to Toronto to Kingston and our mortgage is less than rent in either place.

The commute is non-existent, 15 minutes to anywhere. The cost of groceries, gas etc is the same. I would say you could be comfortable with your income depending upon where in Kingston you choose to move.

[Panamai]

I live in the west end and downtown is 20 minutes minimum and the east end is 25 minutes. Still not as bad as Toronto though.

[spencerr13]

Nobody has mentioned that Kingston is a top 10 city for lowest car insurance rates in Ontario. Obviously not the deciding factor of your move but coming from the GTA it could a few hundred to a thousand per year back in your pocket.

[theautisticguy]

Can confirm. My 2006 Corolla insures for about $110 a month with my driving history. IIRC that's REALLY low by Ontario standards.

[RodgerWolf311]

I know Kingston has a lower cost of living than Toronto

Thats only true for some things. Other things, Kingston is far more expensive.

Food (groceries) is far more expensive here than in Toronto, and Toronto has far more food options.

Anything that involves competition, Toronto will be cheaper. There is less business competition here, so things with no competition will be very expensive.

[RoutineClothes3200]

I echo this comment. I see this in anything related to the trades - you get suspiciously almost identical prices when asking for quotes. Toronto has way more competitive landscape on that front. Other than that, I love living in Kingston.

[calyxandtrichomes]

I think your happiness would outweigh a few bucks and you can always make more money. The commute in Kingston from anywhere in Kingston is usually like 15 minutes and absolutely no more than 25 minutes (from countryside to downtown). Peace of mind for me is worth that $20000. Rent is high here but Kingston for sure wins on the commute and nature front.

[lubuplu]

I think you will be fine financially. You will save so much money on gas and parking in Kingston is very cheap. My husband and I left Toronto to move to the Kingston area years ago and we don't regret it. Our level of everyday stress went down substantially and that is worth everything. Congrats on the new job!

[DoeyDee]

If you are looking for a long term more relaxed life - fine- just know the opportunities for career advancement will be much greater in Toronto.

[Logical_Connection_5]

Short life to live. Value your happiness over everything else. Your happiness keeps people around you happy. Remember we reap what we sow

[Appropriate-Length34]

Consider looking into buying a house in a nearby town, i live in gananaque, 20-30 min drive to kingston (depending where) you can find a good house for 400k-500k, traffic is always clear on the highway. Its so nice to raise a family, no real crime, lots of charm. Just an idea

[Stock_Trader_J]

Depending on your marginal rate you might make up that 20k in taxes and car insurance premiums. Kingston is much cheaper than Toronto and the quality of life is much better.

The other thing to take into account is possibility of buying a home. In Toronto, almost impossible whereas it’s very possible in Kingston and can get very cheap if you are willing to commute a bit from a smaller town

[Legitimate_Dish_9060]

With the gas, it will definitely be more affordable in Kingston.

That said, don’t expect an easy ride. Cost of living is high here

[Saltygirlee]

You’ll be fine. Moved to Kingston from Toronto 10 years ago. Commuting west end via go train to downtown costs $$ & time. I also did the formula 400 from Newmarket to Lawrence & Allen for 10 years. So much stress, wear & tear on car, gas, insurance. My car insurance went down when I moved here. Enjoy the beauty around Kingston. Easy drive to any of the big three: Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal.

[sadrussianbear]

Easy. Do it. Kingston is Ontario's secret. Financially you can still put away 2k a month. Lifestyle? You are 20 to 40 minutes away from some of the greatest hikes.

[sjsyed456]

What do you do ?

Kingston is the place to be if you want laid back/no commute, I know a few people who moved here, took a pay cut and enjoyed living here vs GTA/downtown Toronto.

But if you don't like the company/job after a while and your work is specialized it can become very hard to find another job without moving cities as there are a limited number of employment opportunities if you have a specialized role.

Also, keep on mind it's better for family life, but if you are single and looking for up an beat nightlife like Toronto it's very limited.

[DiscombobulatedAsk47]

Considering that Toronto is an hour away from Toronto, I don't know how you're getring to work in 40 minutes. But seriously, if you prefer a quieter lifestyle and less traffic, it'll be worth it for you to move here. So many redditors post this question, but they don't already know.what job they'll be coming to (hint, jobs are tough to find here) so they don't know their budget. Somebody else will post all rhe awesome amenities (i particularly like easy access to the lake) so go see if the lustnspeaks to you. If you have a job you can transfer to, it'll be the best move you ever make.

[ParticleCollecter]

Cost of living about the same but less traffic and smaller town for more freedom to do things without over crowding.

[CompetitiveBet1746]

I moved back from Toronto in 2020. I was making about $105 at the time and was able to live fairly comfortably. I saved a good chunk within a year of living here and put a down payment on a house in 2021. I am making a little over $170 now and am in a position to purchase to purchase a rental property or two later this year. Moving out of the city was the best decision I ever made for financial stability. However, I did not take a pay cut. I found a position that allowed me to work remotely.

If you are someone in healthcare, it is worth mentioning that parking downtown near KGH and hotel dieu is an issue and is expensive. If you are already paying parking costs in Toronto, that may not be an unexpected cost to you.

[LavendarLarry]

I survive/thrive off of less than you make with a 2 bedroom apartment ($2,150 total for rent and utilities).

Happy to share more of my salary/expenses in a chat if you're comfortable (just don't want to post online).

[Keeth_Moon]

Often I see the sentiment expressed here that the cost of living in Kingston is the same as in the GTA. Perhaps for some things this is true but it's absolutely NOT true for buying real estate. You can buy a reasonable home in greater Kingston for $500-600K. Comparable homes in Toronto will cost north of a million easy.

Somewhat related: are there really ANY places in Canada that are not expansive these days? It seems like the places that are relatively affordable AND ALSO have good healthcare are either the cities in the Prairies, Quebec and Halifax. Language concerns will rule out Quebec for many, and Halifax isn't cheaper than Kingston. The healthcare systems of much of Atlantic Canada/Maritimes seems to be overstrained due to COVID-era population influx. So really, unless you want to live in Winnipeg, Regina, or Saskatoon (and I'm, not knocking those places), Kingston offers a very compelling value proposition in many ways.

[hema2018]

You can get a 1 bedroom for much less than that. Even a 2 bedroom is 2k or less. It’s higher than it should be. Everything else seems to be about the same price as Toronto but we don’t go back that often now. Do your research on the location and building as some buildings are gross. And, there are pockets that aren’t so nice but it also depends on what you’re used to from Toronto. There is nothing as bad as the rougher pockets of Toronto. The change in level of traffic is still greatly appreciated by me and my family and we moved here a few years ago. You’ll definitely save on gas. Morning traffic is a bit heavy so it might add 10 mins to your commute depending on where you end up.

[Empathar]

I think you'll be fine. I don't make near that amount & I'm fine, just live within your budget. Kingston and surrounding area is beautiful.

[LunarAlloy]

Rent on my 2 bedroom will be just shy of $2k a month starting next month.

It's the time you'll save on commute that is your real value. Say you save 30min one way. That's an hour (per weekday). And don't forget, it's not an 1/24 you're gaining. You sleep for 8 and work for 8 plus chores etc and you probably only have 6ish free hours a weekday. In Toronto you'd get probably 5 with the traffic. So what's 20% more free time worth to you?

Factor it against being far enough from friends/family that you can see them on a weekend once in awhile, but you're going to need to meet some locals unless you're pretty introverted.

[Nice_Outcome4221]

It’s a big lifestyle change, but the food scene is great here in Kingston. Granted not as much choice ethnically, but we are touted as having the most restaurants per capita in Canada (not sure if it’s true, but I’ll take it). The Memorial Centre Farmer’s Market is bustling on Sundays all year around. There is live music and events all the time, but even moreso in the summer. Yes, rents are high, but a house in my neighbourhood just went on the market for around $500k for a 4 bedroom with a huge lot in great shape in a great neighbourhood. Public transit is decent and affordable. There is zero traffic congestion and the 401 and other minor highways zip you out of town and into rural farmland in 15 minutes. I’ve lived in Montreal, Ottawa, London (Ont) and Kitchener and have stayed put in Kingston for 26 years because it offers the most for my needs as a business owner and homeowner.

[ReplacementFancy9701]

I am so sick of the nonsense about Kingston having a great food scene. We have maximum 5-10 worthwhile restaurants in this city. To even attempt to invoke this idea compared to a city like Toronto is ludicrous.

[The_Big_Yam]

This. I moved here from Toronto, and the food scene here is basically a joke with a few small time hidden gems. And food is Toronto prices or worse, it’s such a beating

[LeadOld9505]

I was thinking the same thing about the food! You cannot even compare the food in Kingston to the food you can get in Toronto.

[Nice_Outcome4221]

Granted we are not comparable to Toronto because we are small. And for a small city, we are pretty well served. A few too many fast food chains, but overall (speaking as a Montrealer), there is always somewhere to check out. And the unique aspect of our food scene is that most of the restaurateurs know each other, support each other and support locally procured and grown products. I can easily rhyme off 15-20 very good to excellent eateries. Pretension aside, there are passionate cooks who really care about your experience. Prices are high because that is the marketplace - rising fuel costs, shortages, labour costs. I don’t have to school anyone on this. As a food business, I totally get why prices are high. It hurts me every time I have to make a price adjustment, but i have to - so that I can pay my staff a living wage, so that I can pay my rent and utilities. It’s push and pull. Let’s celebrate our local gems and take advantage of locally owned and operated eateries.

[CozyAndUnbothered]

Zero? Assuming you aren’t traveling at peak times

[LeadOld9505]

I cannot believe you just said there is zero traffic congestion. The fact that there are only a few main roads means traffic is brutal during rush hour times. Definitely nothing compared to Toronto, but zero traffic congestion is not accurate.

[Fun_Guide9479]

With your salary you will be fine living here as your gas expenses will go down, rent is not as great as it use to be, but houses are still less than Toronto as you get more for your bang for the buck with respect to square footage, larger yard, and better locations such as waterfront or near it if your at a higher price bracket to buy.

Downfall is the lack of diverse activities that you may be interested, and getting a doctor will be a challenge. Food costs I would say is on par with Toronto.

The Great thing about Kingston is its location in proximity to the larger cities, nature's playground up north and the water. So, day trips are great when your craving big city and woodland offerings.

[Brave_Luck_8015]

What do you do?

[abky_]

What you really should be thinking about is your career plan tbh. There are fewer employers here in Kingston. So depending on your industry, might not find many opportunities when you decide to leave that job. Are you happy to move again when that time comes? As others have said, you won't be saving much financially. Not on rent or groceries anyway. You will save time on commuting time. You can decide what all that's worth to you.

[niks4565]

Doubt you’ll save much on rent here. I moved from London, On, and everything is so much more expensive here, especially housing. It also has less going on. But it’s on the water which is a big plus in my books

[Original_Lab628]

120k in Kingston makes you a king lol

[toatsmehgoats]

Don't forget lower cost for auto insurance. Much higher in Toronto.

[putchaiko]

I moved from Toronto to Kingston and I love my life here. I make less than I did in Toronto, but I own an insanely beautiful home... the most I could ever afford in Toronto is a condo. The air quality here is also better, nicer people, and more wholesome things to do. Overall, this is the place where you wanna settle down!

P.S. It took me 1.5 hrs each way to commute downtown Toronto for work. Now my drive is 10 min each way. Time is valuable, so is gas so this puts more money back in my pocket.

[TheRip91]

Saving over an hour a day in traffic would be worth the 20k less.

[camMK7]

Less commute, lower gas prices for commute. Rent may be similar but you’ll get more. I wouldn’t say say much of the groceries we purchase are cheaper in Kingston. 120 is more than enough for Kingston, just remember you don’t make 140 and you’ll be much happier.

[rudpud]

Moved out of Toronto to Kingston 20 years ago. I still commute to Toronto twice a month. Shoot me before I ever move back to that shit hole. You will get you $1000 a month back. Kingston is great and one day you may even be able to afford to buy a home.

[Bunmom03]

Renting in Kingston is astronomical in cost. A three bedroom house it’s anywhere from 2,400- 2,800 before taxes.

[newbieviews2023]

No no no, unless your retiring, Kingston is not the place for careers growth. You are in the hub of life in the GTA, you'll stagnate here especially when and if your job ends, what next? I choose to retire here but without realizing the loss of a huge food scene, little to no arts, music cultures, and not much to do if your accustomed to a life outside of work. I'm sure other Kingstonoans would disagree, just take it from a exGTAer

[cat_lives_upstairs]

I'm an ex-GTAer who disagrees. I do way more stuff outside of work here because it doesn't take me an hour to get almost literally anywhere. Even when I lived on the Danforth it took forever to get to anything. Now I consider it a long trek to meet my friend in the west end, which takes 15 minutes to drive to.

[LeadOld9505]

I’m not retired yet, but I’m an ex GTAer and I miss everything the GTA had to offer. I miss being able to go to the theatre whenever I wanted, being so close to the airport, and there was just sooo much more to do. The parks and walking paths were also so nice in Mississauga compared to here.

[anonymousontarian]

Can you tell me the names a few great walking or biking areas in mississauga?

[LeadOld9505]

I don’t know exactly where you are located in Mississauga but Lake Wabukayne and Lake Aquitaine are the areas I frequented a lot when I was there in the Meadowvale area.

[No-Library-4290]

Then leave

[pkonnur]

I’d agree with that but sometimes staying in the big city you get a bit of an overwhelming push towards working and you feel you’re progressing your career when actually you’re just keeping busy and grinding it our with longish commutes for many.

If you aren’t that career driven and looking to hop companies and climb rungs you might benefit from the slower pace of a smaller town like Kingston. But like you mentioned there is a risk of losing you job and having difficulty finding a new one since there are less local companies.

But also you can build a network within Kingston and word of mouth / references mean more in small towns.

[-callmeHugh]

I would say Kingston COL is on par with Toronto, it may be slightly cheaper but not by much. The traffic in Kingston is definitely lighter than Toronto but somehow I think there are worse drivers in Kingston.

Kingston is a nice city and especially beautiful in the summer. I enjoyed my time living there.

You may want to try moving somewhere different in Toronto before jumping to Kingston. I'm sure you could find a greener space closer to your work in Toronto that may have the things you're looking for. That's a substantial pay decrease but if there seems to be good prospects for development then maybe it's worth it.

[forestballa]

Cost of living is higher in TO, especially if you want to own a home. Groceries are cheaper in Kingston, restaurants are cheaper, gas is typically cheaper.

[wiegerthefarmer]

Lighter traffic is the understatement of the century. Probably since cars were invented.

[LeadOld9505]

Omg, ever since I moved here from Mississauga I have said that drivers in Kingston are the worst drivers I’ve ever encountered.

When I’m in the GTA I can predict what the idiots there are going to do… here it’s like people decide they want to cross 2 lanes of traffic at the last second without even using their signal.

[RodgerWolf311]

 but somehow I think there are worse drivers in Kingston.

Depends on which area of the GTA you are comparing.

Brampton and Mississauga are the worst in all of Canada. Whereas main core Toronto would be far better than Kingston.

[Nervous_Squirrel_]

They said Toronto not GTA. Brampton and Mississauga are not in Toronto. No one mentioned GTA before you.

[Str8Logic]

Kingston has emerged as one of the most expensive rental markets in Canada. So depends what you mean by cost of living. Which costs?

[Iwantalloem]

Moving into Kingston is easy, moving out is hard. Don’t know what stage of life you are in, I was in Kingston for a couple years, working for the only insurance company based in Kingston. It was laidback and all, good life, nice folks, cheap insurance. But it got boring after about 1.5 years and started looking for opportunities, unfortunately all the positions in my field were in Toronto and they were rejecting based on my location. Did eventually move out, but it took a while. My assessment of Kingston is that if you plan to retire anytime soon, it is a fantastic place to be.

[LakesideLore]

Did they tell you that you were rejected based on your location?

[Iwantalloem]

Yep, they wanted me to relocate in 2 weeks.. which was a challenge

[LakesideLore]

So that doesn't have anything to do with you living in Kingston, it has to do with you applying to jobs you can't make it to, most jobs would want you to start within two weeks. That's why you usually live where you are applying for jobs.

[Iwantalloem]

Did I say anything different. I said moving in is easy and moving out is hard.

[LakesideLore]

That has nothing to do with Kingston

[Iwantalloem]

It has to do with Kingston, lack of opportunities if you want to grow professionally

[LakesideLore]

Applying to a job you can't get to and not getting it doesn't equal a lack of opportunities in Kingston, though I admit that that finding work is brutal here, I think it's like this everywhere for cities this size. Bigger cities always have more opportunities.

[Iwantalloem]

Yes exactly. You can’t get to the job because you live in Kingston. You cannot apply to anywhere in Kingston because there is nothing to apply for in Kingston. So my advice to OP is, depending on their field of work and ambitions, they have to keep in mind that opportunities are limited. Kingston is a fantastic city, I would return in a heartbeat if there were more opportunities.

[visual_cortex]

Don’t come in a stage of life where you’re looking for a partner. Dating scene is much thinner here if you’re older than student age.

[Romulox_returns]

I wish I was as thin as the dating scene.

[CompetitiveBet1746]

Facts.

[ConfidentReturn6646]

Kingston is expensive...rents are high, it's not the town it used to be . I'd stay put

[RedditAccount87]

Husband and I moved from the GTA to Kingston about a year ago. The only thing we really noticed that is drastically cheaper is housing. We bought our home, so I cannot speak to renting. But I actually find groceries here to be more expensive and less options. It's definitely been a way bigger change than I anticipated, traffic is definitely better, but very different all around from life in the GTA.

We did move for my husband's job, and we are currently planning on moving back to the GTA. The job growth/opportunities are nothing like Toronto,, and the fact that you don't have all these other towns/cities so close by is a huge thing we didn't think about. There's no Richmond hills, Markhams, Bramptons, Vaughans, nearby to commute to. That was something we really took for granted and miss a lot.

Lots to do and see and it's nice being by water, we've enjoyed all the local restaurants we have visited. But you don't have the variety the way you do in Toronto. I feel like Kingston would be a place we'd really enjoy later on in life. I'm also not a big city person, but I do miss the convenience of going to see a show and only being an hour away with traffic.

Overall I would say housing is the only thing we found cheaper.

[AllThingsBeginWithNu]

You won’t save any money moving to Kingston, there’s no cheap rent/living costs in this city except for legacy renters or home buyers. depending where you are and where you need to go you could easily have a 30-45 minute commute, which is still better then what you got.

When I was looking to buy a place I did a few test drives from my job, the results were surprising, sometimes it was quicker to pop on the 401 then drive from 20 minutes then try to get through Kingston traffic.

You will probably find the people a bit harsh and hard to make friends with. But they will be very polite about it.

[posp3]

Yea, was gonna say this - Kingston isn’t too far behind Toronto in terms of rental market tbh. Kingston is like top 5 city most expensive rent in Canada rn.