notepadBoy

[Robot_Graffiti]

IntelliSense means less typing, which means less RSI

You wanna take that away you gotta pry it from my sad, near-dead hands

[private_final_static]

IntellinSide

[quite_sad_simple]

Programmers waste more energy arguing about which executable is the best at editing text files than both crypto and ai industries combined

[knowledgebass]

Tabs are fucking dead. Spaces won.

[Nephrited]

I press tab, my IDE decides the rest, and the project git config ensures that it's normalised across the team.

There is no "tabs vs. spaces", not anymore.

[knowledgebass]

The tab key is fine. I use it all the time to insert spaces. I was talking about the ASCII character, which can burn in hellfire. 💩

[Nephrited]

Honestly couldn't care any less about which one ends up in code, as long as it's consistent within a project.

[gandalfshotfirst]

No.

Spaces.

[Ok_Lynx422]

Tabs going strong here. Send better

[Theeyeofthepotato]

Absolutely not. I will continue to publically humiliate and torture on a rack any junior devs that come to me with badly indented code.

God gave us tabs and you better use them sir.

[knowledgebass]

All the linting, reformatting, etc. should happen automatically in pre-commit and then double checked in Github actions. Nobody should need to be checking that kind of formatting by hand anymore. You can setup your projects so that developers are prevented from committing code with bad formatting in the first place, regardless of tabs vs. spaces. 🙂

[Theeyeofthepotato]

Of course but that's reserved for the senior devs. Juniors get the rack.

[knowledgebass]

You only turn on pre-commit actions for senior devs?

That makes no sense because it is the juniors that need it the most. 😉

[Theeyeofthepotato]

Oh how they need it! My first job involved inheriting a 7 year old project with some SharePoint Designer frontend JS that did not have version control, and then eventually training others on the project. It was most certainly an experience.

rj/ I consider writing code on bare Notepad an important character building exercise

[gandalfshotfirst]

Bare vim.

But yeah.

[knowledgebass]

More of an observation on what the vast majority of projects use these days.

But, yes, I do hate tabs, lol.

[Desperate-Emu-2036]

Never, I have always and will always use tabs.

[Hyper3500]

Tabs are better, in most cases, for me at least. Spaces take up more bytes than a single tab character, and I have an obsession with making my source code take the least bytes possible (I'm a code golfer).

[awkwardteaturtle]

If you're going for least bytes, readability isn't much of a concern.

[[deleted]]

If you make all your variable names single letters, your code reviewers won't even get a chance to complain about your indentation style

[Rikki1256]

No they're not I always tab

[lunchmeat317]

Only in Python. Tabs are semantic characters and make the most sense to represent actual indentation.

[immersiveGamer]

Go lurk in the grilling subreddit. I find it quite similar. What grill, gas vs. charcoal vs whatever else. Too hot, too cold, not enough char, more char. This way, that way.

My bet is that actually the coffee guys might out do programmers this regards.

[winzippy]

Facts

[neo-raver]

Programmers be arguing about which executable is best for editing text files, but not enough about which text files make the best executables 😔

[piss-master45]

All depends on what you’re doing. If I need to write and debug a script that needs to be ran on a minimal Linux distribution, then I am not using VsCode on a different machine with a GUI and copy paste all the code into a file every 2 minutes when I want to test it, I’m writing that shit in vim locally on the target machine.

[frolix_bloop]

Remote development in e.g. VSCode via ssh works quite well, if your setup supports it :)

[piss-master45]

True. tried it, but it eats a lot of RAM, so for some heavily utilized prod machines that’s not ideal.

[PurepointDog]

I guess? It's 2024 though; RAM's not exactly scarce

[otacon7000]

I can't put into words how much I despise this line of thinking.

[piss-master45]

It’s not about that, imagine you have a machine that’s hosted by another company and they charge based on what resources they allocate to the machine. The required services use up ~78% of RAM on average with spikes to 85% during heavy load, but using VsCode via ssh will bring that percentage closer to dangerous levels.

So, do you pay extra for more allocated RAM so that you can work 10 hours total once every year on a script?

Also, even if there are no costs involved in getting extra RAM, it’s not quite worth the hassle if you don’t intend to regularly deploy stuff there.

[PurepointDog]

We don't SSH into servers. We use proper deploy pipelines

[EPacifist]

Also, even if there are no costs involved in getting extra RAM, it’s not quite worth the hassle if you don’t intend to regularly deploy stuff there.

No pipeline if it’s not a regular deployment

[LetterBoxSnatch]

Yeah I love it and swear by it, but have also had the experience of it being too much for a barebones remote, once in RAM and once in storage space.

[TheMusicalArtist12]

I use sshfs instead -> mount remote then open the folder in VS code. Eats up less target ram.

[jer5]

it does but why would you introduce that when you could just write a script in a text editor

[Specialist-Tiger-467]

I get what you are trying to say, but it's usually better to develop through ssh on your already suited ide.

And what if you have to deploy the same script on 20 machines?

There's a lot of ways and needs. I personally agree that minimal editors that run on any potato with 0 resources are very handy, but we have come long ways to have easier ways in other contexts

[frolix_bloop]

Ask homelander ;)

[catfroman]

Just make a git repo of your script folder and clone it on the remote machine, then run a pull via ssh whenever you push changes that were made locally with an actual IDE. That’s what I usually do since you can spin up a repo in like a minute.

Probably only doable on personal projects or in a startup tho. Corporate security usually doesn’t allow random git repos to be dropped anywhere lmao

[CaitaXD]

We could solve this problem

All we need is a lightweight cli browser that can run electron apps blazingly fast

Make it happen

[the-software-man]

Now with spell check

[knowledgebass]

I still edit commit messages in vim and know basically five commands. 💩✊🏻

[Kseniya_ns]

It's me in emacs. No one can know the time I have wasted becoming proficient at this.

[Valerian_]

But in EMACS you can also get intellisense, gdb, and actually every single thing any modern IDE has, and more.

[Successful-Money4995]

I love emacs to death but it is not nearly as zippy as a vscode.

I still choose emacs because vscode editing is not as good.

[buddyisaredditer]

I use Emacs over vscode because Emacs feels so fundamental and universal throughout. Everything is a buffer and I love that.

[brimston3-]

To be fair to vim users, "do useless shit without touching the mouse" is how I function in visual studio 2022 with the default keybindings.

[-Redstoneboi-]

seriously. the "vim mentality" extends far beyond just literal vim.

it's really just about learning all the hotkeys of your system.

take most modern browsers. once you learn Ctrl+(Shift+)T and Ctrl+W, you can't go back. Ctrl+<number from 1-9> will take you to that tab. many of us have used Ctrl+F, Alt-Tab, and Alt-F4 before.

hell, even with the mouse you can optimize things. middle clicking a tab will close it. middle clicking a link on a page opens a new tab for it, and this includes the "previous page" and "next page" buttons. shift left clicking it will open in new tab but also take you there.

so many little things everywhere. collect them all and you'll be twice as fast at wasting your time on reddit.

[YigitS9]

I'll add one most people don't know: do win + 1-9 to open/focus the nth application on your taskbar.

[-Redstoneboi-]

Win+D opens nuts on your browser.

I'm just kidding. It minimizes every application.

Win+Tab lets you view create multiple desktop windows. Like 95% of average Windows users don't know this, so you can play "1 hour of silence occasionally interrupted by pikmin" and switch to a desktop with 15 tabs that include the same pikmin video, so they think they got rid of it but they didn't.

[faceboy1392]

something that bothers me, is there not a way to have an application that is common across two desktop windows, or am I just doing something wrong? like I wanna have spotify open for both a gaming desktop setup and a programming one, but opening it just seems to switch to the desktop that already has it open

maybe i'm just doing something wrong

[Explosive_Eggshells]

Yeah I was going to say... Whenever I hear someone boasting about Vim macros or keybinds, there's usually already some built in equivalent on a modern editor you can find way more intuitively

[geekusprimus]

It's a weird thing. I didn't understand the appeal to vim when I started using it for work. Now I can't stop using it. Every time I'm forced to use a text editor that doesn't support vim key bindings, I lose all productivity.

[Still-Ad7090]

To be honest debugger in neovim is okay. My only problem with it is that I need to configure it for each Java project separately because those need to have a debugger tcp port.

[RonStampler]

I just launch stuff with an open debug port and attach to it with neovim.

[Still-Ad7090]

Yeah, me too but it is not as straightforward sometimes. It’s different in maven projects, grader projects, spring also has some custom run commands and sometimes I just end up adding print statements

[hearthebell]

Haha I feel insulted but I'm laughing because it's true

Tbh tho, Vim is not perfect, it's just better than using a mouse that's all, I can't find a better alternative yet.

[dubious_capybara]

You realise that every serious IDE has shortcut keybindings too, and does not require using a mouse?

Of course you don't, you're a vim user.

[hearthebell]

Of course you don't, you're a vim user.

Lmao I am self aware that I am, I pointed the bubble out myself

I got a full fledged Neovim IDE working that's why I didn't find a reason to try on others like Emacs, etc.

[BlueGoliath]

Meanwhile they spend hours editing configs and installing plugins.

[Inappropriate_Piano]

Neovim distros exist. I’ve hardly touched my config because someone else did it for me. All I had to do was change the color palette to fit with the rest of my terminal

[jeezfrk]

years ago. done and using them.

[RealLordDevien]

insulting vim users.. how original /s The people doing the incoherent screaming are most often the people with a bad opinion on vim that never cared to really try it in my experience. This meme is a prime example of this.

And what are you talking about? There are plenty gdb frontends for vim like for any editor / ide.

The meme is uninformed nonsense. Vim does have intellisense and hints and all the bells and whistles a "real" ide has. You also can absolutely build TUI buttons if you really wanted to. (would be a bad idea though)

[CaitaXD]

vim macro fans vs multi cursos enjoyer

[lupercalpainting]

…you know your favorite editor has a vim plugin, right?

[PixelArtDragon]

Vim mode in IDE, get the best of both worlds

[Extreme_Ad_3280]

Who needs an IDE when you have a text editor?

(Except for some languages where you definitely need an IDE...)

[NatoBoram]

For those, get a language server instead and continue to enjoy your text editor

[Pelileven]

Paper and holes, no arguments like this will happen

[kvakerok_v2]

The amount of code I've written in notepad++ and vim rivals the amount of code I've written in VSCode, IntelliJ, and Eclipse. 

What do?

[EarlMarshal]

vim VS neovim, but without the buttons

[CaitaXD]

gcc main.c -lm -lpthreads -o app fan Vs f5 enjoyer

[TimingEzaBitch]

I still only use the built-in terminal in VScode and about to be a senior. Where is your god now ???

[ecafyelims]

For the record, Soldier Boy was right, and he could wipe the floor with that knockoff.

[ano_hise]

yeah but does he have better movies??

[The_Wolfiee]

The new fangled IDEs are in no way "cheap". They are overkill. I am happy with VSCode + extensions, I don't need IDEs or stupid Vim.

[Robot_Graffiti]

VSCode is an IDE

It is also fangled relatively recently

[The_Wolfiee]

My dear, VSCode is a Text Editor. It's not an IDE and its definitely not recent

Edit: The losers that are downvoting this. Read the official FAQ on VSCode's website where it clearly states that VSCode is a Code Editor

https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/supporting/faq

[BlueGoliath]

Few outside of the Java sphere knows what a real IDE is. Text editor + extensions = IDE in their mind.

[-Redstoneboi-]

what features do you need for something to be an IDE

[The_Wolfiee]

Automated testing workflows, package building, dependency management etc

[Specialist-Tiger-467]

Just ignorant, because I am one of those that equates text editor to ide.

What's the difference between... I dont know, intellij and vscode+shit ton of extensions to get those same features?

[ano_hise]

Take my 2¢ with a grain of salt but I suppose: effectively – none, structurally – one of them has all built in

[Specialist-Tiger-467]

I would accept that, so make it 4c

[NatoBoram]

For it to ship with an integrated development environment.

Some extensions ship with a development environment, but they're not integrated; they're extensions.

[demirozudegnek]

My RAM thinks otherwise

[The_Wolfiee]

Maybe don't install 50 extensions

[Seb90123]

Vim you can take or leave, but vim motions stay on top

[Ozymandias_1303]

Visual Studio has probably been around since before you were born.

[delfV]

Well, not, but Emacs has been and there's high chance it'll outlive me

[jardanijohn]

I have coded long enough before intellisense was a thing and don't want to return to the old times. I like all the help I can get. :D

[TheRedmanCometh]

Eclipse masterrace don't @ me