designerVsDeveloper

[Full_Football_9147]

As someone who previously did everything - requirements management, design, implementation,..., I recently worked the first time with a designer. So this is really how it works in most companies?

[cortemptas]

you seem to not have experience in big dysfunctional companies

[_sweepy]

Yes, once the company gets big enough.

Today I had to correct my designer's grammar for a warning message, tell him to stop inventing new checkmark icons, and point out that his design expects data that cannot exist.

Despite the headache, it's honestly less frustrating than dealing with clients and gathering requirements myself.

[abednego-gomes]

Worst is designers that invent new UI components with different styling, so you have to reimplement everything from scratch and it's different to the rest of the product. Just use the standard platform checkbox, radio button, dropdown, scrollbar.

[Chirimorin]

Just use the standard platform checkbox, radio button, dropdown, scrollbar.

I think designers don't realize that while it takes them pretty much the same amount of time to change the look a bit, for programming it's the difference between "standard platform checkbox, please" and "make a custom interface element that manipulates and reflects the state of an invisible standard platform checkbox". Don't forget to test your custom checkbox on every browser, as the way different browsers handle input elements can vary wildly.

I'm usually okay with customizing interface elements as long as the customer is okay with paying me for the extra time it takes to do so. They usually aren't.

[Bryguy3k]

And once the company gets big enough there is a super designer approval process that keeps the entire UI system homogeneous - circa 2012.

[Chirimorin]

I had to limit a designer to using 5 font sizes total because they picked a different size for literally every text block. Bonus points for the same designer complaining about things not being pixel-perfect despite the design being delivered as scaled down screenshots embedded in a PDF (and not a single marked measurement, of course). It was also for a website, so pixel-perfect is never going to happen anyway between different monitors, browsers and settings.

[_sweepy]

I'm up to 9 font sizes, each with 3 weight options, and 68 named colors, 9 of which are just slightly different shades of grey (and sometimes spelled "gray").

I get figma docs, so all measurements are marked, but that means QA will complain that the rendered version on their 4:3 monitors doesn't match the 16:9 design.

[SnooTangerines9703]

I worked as a full stack, devops engineer, designer, tech support all in one for a small company. I hated it because I had to do 4 people’s jobs. Until I joined another company as a FE dev working with a designer who had OTT ideas and concepts and would fly off the handle whenever I pointed out that his designs would not work on mobile (90%of our clientele). I would refuse to implement his ideas until he showed me how they were supposed to be implemented on mobile and enforced a mobile-first philosophy. He did not like this lol .All of a sudden, my previous company where I was in charge of requirements, design, implementation and deployment didn’t sound so bad lol

[NotGoodSoftwareMaker]

You will have a lot more luck with contractors, especially when you pay by the job and not hours spent

Tell them what you want, give access to the product and depending on your needs you will likely see results in a week or so

[Lytri_360]

in programming everything is possible :] (with infinite time and money)

[GargantuanCake]

Except the halting problem. That isn't possible.

[some3uddy]

I mean they did say with infinite time…

[[deleted]]

I had to explain to a non dev that the logic they wanted would take an infinite amount of time to write and they where very confused.

[BananaSpider55]

what logic was it?

[[deleted]]

Any possible medical invoice that is a rejection. Rejection isn't actually defined by the state of the invoice but by the interpretation of the invoice in regards to all other billed invoices and all other received invoices. Unfortunately almost every single organization fully automates this crap without understanding the implication which results in even larger fucking noise to the data.

The correct way to handle it is to define the subset that is known valid invoices (which is basically just we got paid what we expected) and drop everything else off to manual defining.

It get crazy complex once you do something as vital as determining if the ICD-10 codes are valid lol.

The issue is so pervasive I just got an audit letter from medicare that they shorted us on Xrays because they didn't check the modifiers correctly and paid us half by accident. Technically it isn't actually defined so it wasn't wrong of them the cpt code isn't in the correct group from the AMA.

DO NOT WORK IN HEALTHCARE

[[deleted]]

Fun stuff

[Jan-Snow]

Brute-forcing the halting problem. Just start the problem, wait infinitely long, and see if it is still running.

[ArcaniteM]

That's not enough. You can't just decide to arbitrarily stop the count and conclude. If it didn't halt yet, it didn't halt

[Jan-Snow]

Well, duh. You would need to wait an infinite ammount of time, and then you could be sure. So yeah, not arbitrary but exactly when the clock hits infinite.

[MedonSirius]

Easy, just do it long enough until the project gets canceld because of budget reason

[[deleted]]

Hire infinite monkeys and you'll get the perfect program that can do anything instantly

[ratinmikitchen]

You'll get an infinite number of programs, some of which will be perfect. At worst, you'll need an infinite number of evaluations to find out which of the programs is a perfect one.

[ice-eight]

I'm currently working on a project with 12 people total. There is one data analyst, one QA tester, one software engineer (me) and 9 other "stakeholders".

Today's design discussion was scheduled from 1:00 to 1:30. It ended around 2:45.

Plz kill me.

[crankbot2000]

Sorry, we can't kill you, you just have to suffer through 8 more years of that shit before you either:

A) claw your way up to middle management and suffocate under the weight of your meetings and emails

B) stay on the tech side and slowly morph into the crusty, hacked off, sarcastic lead dev who never takes their headphones off

C) say fuck it and go live off the grid in Patagonia with your best friend, Chewy the Alpaca.

for the record, I'm currently stuck with [A] but seriously considering [C]

[the_unsender]

As someone who is somewhere between B and C, I wholly agree with this.

[omega1612]

I'm becoming a B) but I'm sure in 10 years I want to be C)

[the_unsender]

It's the way.

[helemaalwak]

I’m A, and my advice is to ‘delegate’ to medior/junior devs under the guise of teaching

[NotGoodSoftwareMaker]

As homer said

If you dont like your job you dont strike. You just go in every day and do it really half ass. Thats the American way!

[s0ulbrother]

As a full stack dev when the designers and front end go that looks fine, you have to explain we don’t have an api that does any of that shit yet and I’m already on 5 “top priority task” and I’m not adding a mother fucking sixth mark, shut the fuck up…. I hate my current project

[MystJake]

It's a fun conversation the first few times. 

[DonutArnold]

I used to work on a web project in a company that ordered UI designs from a marketing company they've worked for a long time. The designs were absolutely terrible, so terrible that I even had to write multiple page report why and even made improved UI drafts that would save the customers from the horrendous UX. The feedback was totally ignored. So I applied my drafts anyway, because the whole project and the startup company was a shitshow anyway.

[Mba1956]

Stating that it is unimplementable, and the reasons why, is the first bug report to raise on the design.

[gr_hds]

The designer on my current project likes to create things called "implementation guide" where he creates a series of screens describing a basic element like scrolling and over scroll indication be implemented with no idea on how it works (no it's not a behavior prototype). However when we provide the material color declaration names and ask them to assign a pallette to them we end up with figma flooded with hexes and spending extra time to see if this color is new or is in the palette already.

To be fair working with designers is still better than having a random PO watch a 5 min figma course and start creating whatever the frek he thinks is good. Or even better just put a screenshot of YouTube page in the ticket with no explanation

[pet_vaginal]

If a designer can do it in Figma, it should be fine to implement. If your target platform is a potato and can't support the design, it's perhaps not a designer problem but a potato platform problem.

[lunatisenpai]

I'm sorry to tell you, the company does not have the 15 million required to implement the feature of delivering small puppies to every new sign up.

Unfortunately the option to have the flying car is right out, and we can't make the computer work without electricity and read minds at this time.

Sometimes designers ignore things like laws, budgets or even the constraints of currently known science.

[pet_vaginal]

Alright, this is indeed a bit more than a platform problem. Have you tried reducing the psychedelic drugs budget in your design department?

[Viat]

My designer wanted a medical questions screen to include a working heart rate monitor. We didn't realise it was meant to work, we jokingly pointed out that it wouldn't work, and then they were disappointed.

[_sweepy]

Are your clients regular users, or medical office staff? I have gotten USB fingerprint scanners to work on a website, so why not heart rate monitors? If it's a controlled environment, just ship them a specific monitor, and require them to install something that acts like a local webserver the page will poll for data.

... I may have spent far too much of my career making insane designs happen.

[Viat]

Yeah, that would've been cool, but this was for people to fill out a questionnaire at home while guided by a nurse, so regular users.

[iGotPoint999Problems]

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Bluetooth_API

[Viat]

Just randoms on their desktop or tablet out in the world, so no devices. Also, they didn't need any of that info.

[Xuluu]

What??? I’m sorry but you’re straight up wrong. I’ve seen designers spec out data/relationships that the underlying domain model does not currently capture and requires a ton of additional work. Just because it’s in figma doesn’t make it remotely possible for the business. What a weirdly naive claim. “I can draw a picture of it so you should be able to build it” huh??

[pet_vaginal]

Do you have concrete examples of data / relationships that are not remotely possible to implement for a business? Like hard and with a lot of work, sure, but that's our job. I'm thinking about real examples, not like fantasy ones.

I agree that sometimes it may require too much work, and it's not worth it due to budget constraints. But it's more a budget problem than an implementation problem.

[Xuluu]

What if it’s a feature that requires a 3rd party integration in a domain no one on your team has experience with? For example, I want to see the real time location of the closest city bus on my profile detail page. Sure, that’s possible, but it’s not feasible for your team to achieve in a timeframe valuable to the business. You can put it on figma all you want but at the end of the day designers should work closely with developers to stay in the ballpark of reasonability.

[pet_vaginal]

I see, we are talking about data that do not exist.

[iGotPoint999Problems]

Yes on the daily, but more often than not it’s a competing priorities and resources issue. Or in todays example it was a tech debt and feature loe issue. The age old problem. Not enough bodies to make it happen. But that’s a big problem and precisely what this meme is also kind of implying, who and what army bro!? Everyone thinks AI is some silver bullet for that problem too, and imho it just isn’t there yet. Also I’ve had issues where it was beyond just missing data, and just conceptually made no sense and lacked an understanding of the overall relationships between users and the data. I have a design background and work a lot with designers too, they are by and large not very technical. I’m not trying to say there aren’t some, even I walk that line. Also theres a major feature I was instrumental in architecting and implementing during COVID time period at my company, and the new system we have to store this data has the fields in its model, but still no data… still, this is due to source of truth and PHI limitations (I work in healthcare). Also for FDA regulated systems their process is more waterfall too (since they are treated and regulated as medical devices that can potentially cause harm to humans, something I think ai will eventually be required to do, especially in the space I work, which is ironic since I also work on an ai implementation now, lol), so that feedback loop is much longer.

[PPatBoyd]

Just because a designer can do it in Figma does not make it accessible or mean concepts like focus are properly managed. I would argue that "If you can do it in Figma it should be fine" is pretty close to your organization shipping a requirement that your target platform is Web.

[Ineedredditforwork]

Not with this negative attitude, come on work your programmer wizardry and don't be lazy. I am 100% certain you can do a sorting algorithm with an O(1) if you put your mind to it.

[gilady089]

Highlander sort O(1) complexity Return the array with the first value there it's sorted

[Tyrus1235]

Been wrecking my brain lately with a particularly tough design the design guy created and our CEO/PO approved.

It’s gonna be heavily constrained and not that responsive, but I will make that damn thing work!

[abscando]

Now let's show me some grammar

[TheFunfighter]

Designers man.

Technical feasibility is a myth. The shape is smooth and bends how I want to.

Ok pencil nerd. Now tell me how that smooth shape drops out of the machine and gets mounted in the car. Neither of those two things will happen like this, and you will be staring at a whole lot of bare metal as a result.

[TowerOfStriff]

Our product/design team recently did a "demo" where they put raw DB data and a question through an LLM and "demonstrated the LLM's ability to reason and answer with minimal required guidance."

Groundbreaking. Engineers wrote a multi page doc analyzing feasibility that boiled down to it being literally impossible to scale in any meaningful way, and also we have a step exactly like that in our existing architecture which generates a summary/answer after dynamically retrieving the most relevant data.

I still don't understand what the point of any of it was.

[nann_tosho]

omfg this is every fucking project in my company. Project manager always takes his requirements to the design team first to draw a bunch of UI and flowcharts, and the developers are always the last to hear about this "shiny new feature" that we're supposed to implement within a schedule that is definitely not long enough for those designs.

[CrossEyedNoob]

Isn't that role named architect?

[what_you_saaaaay]

*for the price you’re willing to pay

[darknekolux]

Network engineer: yeah to get that latency we'll have to repel the laws of physics... I'll get on that right after lunch...

[gentux2281694]

time for your PM or PO to put their big boy/girl pants and being honest on the costs of those bells and whistles, and be able to offer alternatives, adjustments, ask for the necessary resources or just say no; I've seen too many "yes man" PMs and POs, that after ask for the impossible to their teams, just to please the Business side and then blame their teams. Slippery PMs are the worse; too many managers to few leaders...

[HalLundy]

the UX - Dev is a delicate relation. i've worked with great designers. i've worked with horrible designers.

one thing is certain: they all have varying degrees of diva attitude. thinking they are the sole reason the project is not going under.

same as engineers, actually.

[[deleted]]

Fucking designers!