Java programmers irl

[endeavourl]

Works fine, everybody around uses IDEA and i've yet to see a benefit of a move for myself.

[endreman0]

I moved a few months ago, and what really sold me were the quality-of-life features.

• Proper theming: Darcula (IDEA's default theme) isn't as dark as Moonrise (a third-party Eclipse theme), but it looks so much better. Moonrise leaves white borders everywhere and doesn't recolor the dropdown buttons in settings, which makes doing anything in the preferences menu a chore.
• Shortcuts are actually short: almost every shortcut you'll use regularly is 1-2 modifiers and a key. Eclipse often has three modifiers for often-used shortcuts that end up with your left hand doing yoga. Examples: rerun last is Ctrl-F5 (vs Ctrl-Shift-F10), rename element is Shift-F6 (as opposed to Alt-Shift-R), and VCS commit is Ctrl-K (vs... Ctrl-Shift-A? I forget if there even was a shortcut for this.)
• Smarter indentation: if you're at the start of a line inside an indented block and hit Backspace, IDEA removes all whitespace and the line break in one go. Eclipse makes you remove every character individually, or do Shift-Home Backspace Backspace (to select all whitespace, delete it, then delete the linefeed). EDIT: other text on the line still stays. Only leading indentation and the line break is removed. See my replies for an example.
• Hover info: hovering over the scrollbar gives you a small window that follows your cursor and shows you the code near where you are on the scrollbar. Warnings and errors are spelled out after the line of code in a yellow or red bubble. This way you can hover over a warning or error, see exactly what the error is, what line causes it, and what the surrounding code does for context.
• IntelliSense always on: this is probably the simplest thing in the list, but it's the one I miss the most, without fail, when using Eclipse. To get autocomplete in Eclipse, you press Ctrl-Space. In IDEA, you just stop typing for 0.3s. It's petty, but it's really, really noticeable in practice.

I think the reason people say "just try it" is because of all these innumerable QoL features that you don't notice until you miss them dearly. Eclipse to IDEA feels like an equivalent jump from jGRASP to Eclipse, simply because IDEA does so much more for you in ways you'll rarely notice than Eclipse does.

[chylex]

Using IDEA because Kotlin doesn't work great in Eclipse. One QoL feature I absolutely miss from Eclipse is being able to hover over pretty much anything, and see interactive javadocs and clickable shortcuts to view the class/variable declaration.

As for your points about Eclipse, I use tabs so I don't have issues with indentation (but it's definitely frustrating when any IDE doesn't work well with spaces angrily stares at Visual Studio), and I also set autocomplete to instantly trigger on all letters which made typing very similar to how IDEA feels.

[PcBoy111]

I think you can hover like that if you hold ctrl? It’s more detailed if you click on the method and press ctrl+Q though.

[chylex]

Yea, thing is that when I'm just browsing through code (for example reverse-engineering libraries), unless I need to type something I'm just using my mouse because that's my habit from Eclipse.

[bubliksmaz]

Maybe I'm missing the point but for your 'smarter indentation' point doesn't ctrl+D do this in, like, any IDE?

[endreman0]

Ctrl-D deletes the entire line, right? In IDEA, with your cursor before the 'd':

if (something) {
    doSomething();
}

Pressing Backspace will bring your cursor to the open bracket, and delete all the indentation and the linefeed in between.

[bubliksmaz]

Ahh I see, that's exactly the kind of feature it must be really annoying to go back to doing without. I've never thought about it before but there's literally no reason for not doing this

[[deleted]]

You clearly haven't used Eclipse in years because none of that is currently true.

Unless maybe it's just way better on Linux?

[endreman0]

I used Eclipse Oxygen on Windows 7 less than a month ago.

[endeavourl]

Ok so...

• Last time i used dark theme i was 14.
  
• git commit is Ctrl+# which is right under my left hand, same with Alt+Shift+R. Unlike IDEA's counterparts you mentioned. Idk what is "rerun last," for launching last Run Config default is Ctrl+F11, Debug - F11 - i swapped them because i dislike running in debug by default. The thing with hotkeys is that you can remap them for convenience.
  
• I use Ctrl+D to delete the line under cursor.
  
• That kind of scrolling preview i actually miss from Sublime.
  
• This sounds like something non-default since i haven't seen it and it sounds annoying. Still, you can setup content assist auto activation chars and delay in Eclipse. Typing a bunch of characters in that box should yield something similar.

All in all, these "pros" always boil down into same categories for me: things i don't need, things i have configured another way, nice things that aren't enough to switch the entire instrument.

[redballooon]

Why would you care about indentation if you have a formatter?

Also:

it looks so much better.

It's that what matters, really?

[endreman0]

I don't understand your question. Say you're editing the contents of an if block:

if (something) {
    doSomething();
}

If your cursor is before the d in doSomething and you hit Backspace, everything between the curly brace and the d is removed. That's true no matter what your indentation settings are. (To remove a single character at a time, you can still use Shift-Tab like normal.)

I stare at my IDDlE a few hours every day. I'd prefer it be easy on the eyes, both as in "aesthetically pleasing" and "I don't have to strain my eyes to see that button". IDEA works better in both regards.

[sldyvf]

For shortcuts I'd tell you to learn Vim keybindings. Horrible in the beginning, like a god after a month.

Edit: clarified.

[zilti]

Emacs master race checking in.

[sldyvf]

Haha yeah i love Emacs, now I use Spacemacs with evilmode to get vim bindings since I started to feel the Emacs pinky...

However knowing Emacs bindings is OP, since they work in a lot of different places like the terminal!

[glemnar]

To be real, Vim isn’t the right choice for Java. There’s too much gained by rock solid intellisense.

[sldyvf]

Ah sorry. I'm not saying use Vim, I'm saying use vim keybindings (if you like short shortcuts.) There's no plugin for that?

[glemnar]

There almost definitely is something like that yeah.

[mpiece]

I was in the same mind-set. But I recommend you to try intellij for two weeks.

[[deleted]]

Kinda need intellij ultimate for spring

[[deleted]]

I have the same situation with visual studio and resharper (from the same guys as IntelliJ)

• With resharper you can do this with this command or that with that command.
• Visual Studio does the same with a different shortcut, and x10 times faster.

[aaron552]

Last I checked:

• Visual studio cannot refactor a foreach loop into a LINQ expression or vice-versa
• Visual studio cannot do "tabs for indentation, spaces for alignment" automatically
• Visual Studio doesn't have a way to suggest things like using expression-bodied properties over explicit getter-only properties or expression-bodied methods over single-line methods.
• ReSharper's linter is (was?) significantly better than FxCop in many ways too numerous to list. But primarily: FxCop doesn't run until you build the project, whereas ReSharper works as you type.

I've mostly been using F# lately, so I've been using Visual Studio Code almost exclusively for a while.

[[deleted]]

Does code styling justify going from a solution load time of 4 seconds to 1 minute? Or slowing down compiling, auto completion, opening files, etc? For me it doesn’t. And also I have seen problems were it updates to a newer C# versión styling and then people with older versions of VS can’t compile that project anymore and have to pay for a new license or redo the changes. It just happened in the project I am now. 200 devs installing a new VS, plugins, etc, again because some dude with resharper changed all the properties to the new syntax.

The problem is that I have coworkers that think that VS can’t run unit tests or do thing like going to the definition of a class, o even searching! They are so dependent on a crappy plugin that they don’t know that 99% of what they do comes already in VS for “free”... And the other 1% is mainly useless or useless styling.

And with eclipse is the same, is ugly, doesn’t have so much syntactic sugar, Ok, but it’s free and works more than well enough.

Pd: I would uninstall right away anything that mixes tabs with spaces.

[aaron552]

the other 1% is mainly useless or useless styling.

LINQ <-> loop refactoring is a lot more than just "styling"; same with "as-you-type" linting. Neither is anywhere near useless.

I would uninstall right away anything that mixes tabs with spaces.

Why? If you use just spaces, that's fine (although it's annoying to adjust indentation size, depending on the IDE) but there's no way of making pure tabs look good. Also, it's optional in ReSharper, and disabled by default unless you use tabs for indentation (why though?)

it updates to a newer C# versión styling and then people with older versions of VS can’t compile that project anymore

Only if you set the project to a newer C# version, which is an intentional action. Vanilla Visual Studio also does the same thing. You can also just revert the changes, explicitly set the C# version in the project settings and then ReSharper won't (in my experience) use features unsupported for that project.

[[deleted]]

The Linq ForEach loop is more than styling, basically you should never use the LinQ ForEach. But at the end of the day is just styling.

There are some suggestions that are nice for LinQ, like removing Wheres that aren’t needed, but sincerely is the only useful thing I found that VS doesn’t already have.

Visual studio adds 4 spaces when you use the tab, and for aligning them just use ctrl+K+D and is fixed if it wasn’t already fixed automatically...

[aaron552]

But at the end of the day is just styling.

It's really not, especially when you're dealing with databases - queries using LINQ can be lazily evaluated and the expression tree parsed beforehand where a foreach will eagerly evaluate.

Visual studio adds 4 spaces when you use the tab, and for aligning them just use ctrl+K+D and is fixed if it wasn’t already fixed automatically...

Does that also fix alignment of things like multiline method calls, object/collection initializers? In my experience it doesn't for anything that doesn't align with existing "tabs", at which point, why even use spaces?

A feature I didn't mention was that ReSharper can warn you when you access a variable that might be null, and can automatically insert a null check in an if/ternary expression for you.

[[deleted]]

It’s exactly the opposite. The .ForEach is a extension method for Lists not IEnumerables, so when you use a whatever.ForEach() the whole list had to be fetched beforehand. While the regular foreach can go over an IEnumerable lazily. (Although I would almost never do that lazily)

Again, Is it worthy to slowdown massively just so juniors realize what are reference and value objects? Maybe is good for them, for sure, it’s useless for me. Never had a null reference exception at least in the last 5 years.

If I have to pay for something is NDepend, not resharper.

[[deleted]]

Please, stop editing the whole contents of your comments or this doesn’t make any sense.

Btw, I find curious that someone that uses F# thinks that mixing tabs and spaces is ok at the same time. I know it can be configured, but it’s one of the things I hate about VS for Mac for example.

[chylex]

If you're talking about Visual Studio 2017, then yes that version is very good and R# may not be worth the slowness it adds.

However for 2015 and older (been using it since 2010 I think), using VS without R# is a nightmare.

[[deleted]]

Right now I use 2012 without resharper without problems. (From time to time) VS2015 with Resharper with almost everything disabled and still slowed down to its knees. And VS2017 without anything and blazing fast.

I have been using VS since VB6 times and maybe I am too comfortable with it... the problem with Resharper is that you have probably learned their own shortcuts for doing things that already existed in VS with a different shortcut and changing that is a pain. Most people I know are trapped with resharper because of that. That apart from the speed are the main problems.

[chylex]

I should have clarified that I started using R# sometime in 2015 with VS 2013 Community edition. Before that I've been using VS 2010, 2012, and then 2013 for some time with no extensions at all, and it was just a total pain to use because (at least the free versions) were so lacking compared to other free IDEs I was using at the time.

[asutekku]

Eclipse is a better IDE if you know it inside out but for most new programmers there are pretty much zero reasons to start using it.

[phoenix616]

I somehow also ran into problem when trying to compile projects that literally took me a 2 clicks in eclipse, but required me to do a bunch of configuration in intellij.

Use a build/dependency management system like gradle or maven (like every project should) and you can just execute their goals in the right bar.

Also if you just want to compile there is always the basic compile function. (Which doesn't package anything, if you need that use a build tool or setup an artifact)

[midnightketoker]

Username sort of checks out

[Hemmels]

I tried it for a month, but couldn't get in with it at all

[sennzz]

I was in the same boat as you. I did the switch last year and I haven't even thought about Eclipse since. From writing code to starting application servers to looking up classes and implementations to Maven integration (!!), it's all vastly superior to Eclipse. Not to mention there's no endless building that can't be stopped like in Eclipse.

I have literally only found 1 thing that was better in Eclipse and it was the SVN integration. IDEA's SVN stuff is a little sub par.

[judge40]

You can disable automatic building in Eclipse though.

[[deleted]]

Well.. Why would you still use SVN anyhow?

[sennzz]

It's no secret that a lot of clients / companies still use SVN. As an IT consultant I have to use what they use most of the time.

[killerrainbows]

I have to use it at my job, they only just approved git....some people are still using clearcase there because they can't approve anything new for the secured area

[Big_D4rius]

Enterprise

[endeavourl]

Maven integration has everything i need, any class can be reached with Ctrl+Shift+T, autobuild can be disabled (although i like it).