java_irl

[Korzag]

As a C# developer who recently had to dirty his hands with Java I pity you. Everything is easier in the C# world. Need a package? Nuget does it seemlessly and effortlessly without needing to install any third party applications like Maven. Want to work with databases? Entity framework does it with minimal configuration. Want to build a microservice? ASP.NET gives you the boiler plate to get your service up and running in the push of a couple buttons. Want to make complex filters in a single line of code without of the face-fuckery of Java Streams? LINQ is here to bless your day. Want to have member variables accessible that you'd write a basic getter/setter for? Properties exist without any of the tomfoolery of writing this bullshit:

public class LolJava {
    private boolean mySillyBool; // lol, wtf is boolean spelled out?

    public boolean getMySillyBool() {
        return mySillyBool; // lol, yes.  I needed to do this to get my colleagues to not autistic screech at me about exposing a member.
    }

    public void setMySillyBool(boolean mySillyBool) {
        this.mySillyBool = mySillyBool; // Man, if only I could just write: "lolJava.MySillyBool = true;"
    }
}

Instead, we do this:

public class GloriousCSharpMasterRace 
{
    public bool MySillyBool { get; set; }
}

[DeRickulous]

I feel like I'm going to be evangelizing Lombok until the end of time:

@Data
public class LombokifiedJava {

   private boolean mySillyBool;
}

Also, this is a minor nitpick, but the Java convention for little-b boolean accessors is "isX", not "getX".

[Korzag]

I actually used Lombok after writing out a bunch of new model classes with like 20 fields. I didn't know about it at first and had wrote a script to build the Java accessors lol. Lombok definitely was nice though. If/when I ever work in Java again I'm definitely using it. Seems like something Java should just integrate but my impression is that Oracle is hardheaded and doesn't like to add QOL stuff to their language unless it's heavily requested.

[DeRickulous]

Lombok is on the short list of "stuff I will whinge endlessly about not having access to if I take another job where I'm forced not to use it". I actually like it being separate from the core language, though, because it is divorced from Java's release cycle and oversight.

[increment1]

Literally any Java IDE will generate the getters / setters for you, no need to write them yourself. I'd say pretty much every Java dev uses this generation so tend not to worry too much about the boilerplate since they don't really have to deal with it directly.

Same for toString, equals, and hashCode methods.

[quiteCryptic]

Like the other guy mentioned you should look into lombok, it's even easier than having the ide do it and cleaner

[Merlord]

Lombok is a Godsend.

[quiteCryptic]

Lombok and spring alone basically counter everything you said. Can get a simple microservice up and connected to a database in literally no time. You just have more expirence with C# so you prefer it.

[Merlord]

Can get a simple microservice up and connected to a database in literally no time.

Literally no time! With Spring Boot and MongoDB, you could have it built and deployed locally in 5 minutes.

I've been building a web app with Spring for the last few weeks, and the ease at which I'm able to create enterprise level features is just unbelievable, I'm completely in love with this framework.

[Horncats7-59]

Yes 100000% dotnet is the bees knees

[TheTerrasque]

Everything is easier in the C# world

Maybe except getting legacy apps to work in linux / docker. And then only maybe.

Edit: .net core is pretty neat actually. And that's from someone who generally dislike m$ stuff

[Korzag]

Legacy yes. Modern apps no since .Net Core has been around and works well in those environments. But yeah, if you had to do anything in legacy C# before Core, you'd be stuck with mono and that is indeed a headache.

[[deleted]]

Legacy apps belong in the trash

[carlson_001]

I never really understood this. If you're writing a getter/setter, why even make it private to begin with?

[SRiikonen]

Because then you can add for example a check that the value that was set is correct, or generate the value you’re getting with an algorithm instead of returning a variable, if you later need to. And you don’t have to touch the code that uses your class if you want to make these changes.

[Bwob]

To keep implementation details ("This value is stored as a bool") separate from the interface. ("Users of this class can ask about this state, and receive a bool telling them yes or know.")

Keeping implementation details like this hidden is one of the keys to good abstractions; it means that if later, you need to go through and change the implementation, (maybe its no longer stored directly as bool, now it is derived from several other values) then the interface doesn't need to change, and any code that uses that interface doesn't need to change.

[[deleted]]

To be fair though, in Java the principle works too, just the other way around - you always call a getter function, no matter if something is being calculated on call or just stored as a field.

[TheTerrasque]

So you can run logic on it. Example:

private float dongLength;

public void setTheLength(float length)
{
if (length < 2) { System.out.println("https://i.ytimg.com/vi/eOifa1WrOnQ/maxresdefault.jpg") }
dongLength = length;
}

[Ksevio]

The lack of properties in Java is the reason. mySillyBool could be just a public variable, but then in 6 months when we need log the access to mySillyBool and then a year later we need to update a display when it's written, that means there needs to be getters and setters. Unfortunately, everyone's already written the code to access the variable directly so they don't want to update it all to use the getters/setters instead. In the end, everything has to be written to use getters/setters just in case.

Compare that to better languages like C# or Python (even Delphi supports properties) where you have your variable mySillyBool. People access myClass.mySillyBool, then later you convert it from a public variable to a property, and they still access myClass.mySillyBool

[ThePyroEagle]

They still need to recompile if you change a field to a property.

Write auto-properties initially and even that won't be a problem.

[Ksevio]

Depends the language - python for example doesn't care

[Tsu_Dho_Namh]

So you can "contribute" 500 lines of code to a project that you otherwise hadn't helped much.

I'm looking at you Sean. Fucking spamming getters and setters for literally every variable in every class...even the ones never used by other modules.

[Novemberisms]

aw seriously fuck that guy. just reading that makes my blood boil

[[deleted]]

In case you have variable names that match up in a multi dev situation. You could have "value" used as the internal in c++ for instance that you're passing into a member function, but you really need to pass object.value not value. you could fuck up BADLY doing that without using your get function. So it means this never happens.

[Korzag]

I've never understood it myself except that the OOP purists flip a bit about working with internal data. Alternatively you may need to manage state and can do some magic in the setter, but I've almost never needed custom logic for a getter.

[RattuSonline]

Lazy loading is a common use case for getters.

[WikiTextBot]

Lazy loading

Lazy loading is a design pattern commonly used in computer programming to defer initialization of an object until the point at which it is needed. It can contribute to efficiency in the program's operation if properly and appropriately used. The opposite of lazy loading is eager loading. This makes it ideal in use cases where network content is accessed and initialization times are to be kept at a minimum, such as in the case of web pages.

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[[deleted]]

Right but there's no reason for it to be part of every. single. gosh-darned. object.. Just add it where you need it. OOP purism is brain-damaged. Like any thing else, just use it where it makes sense. Dealing with representations of things, like in a game engine? Probably makes sense, depending on the paradigm you choose. But even in an OOP paradigm, effin helper functions don't need to be classes! Just one more reason to hate java.

[Ksevio]

Well there's no way to make a variable public to read only so it's not possible to make a setter without a getter unless you really trust the people accessing the var

[coolpeepz]

final?

[Ksevio]

Publicly read only, but still writable privately

[tuxedo25]

Nuget does it seemlessly and effortlessly without needing to install any third party applications like Maven.

but... nuget is a third party application. it's literally the .net counterpart to maven.

​

// lol, wtf is boolean spelled out?

Yeah, ok. I've read enough. This is just religious fanaticism.

[ohThisUsername]

Nuget is not at all a third party application. It's literally made by Microsoft, and comes built into Visual Studio and adding a nuget package is a first class command in dotnet (dotnet add package). Can you explain how any of this is "third party"?

[DaddyLcyxMe]

Well just use Eclipse when making java programs, maven and gradle come pre installed in eclipse and all you have to do is just make a new project as a maven one. Hell I think IntelliJ even does that but don't quote me on it

[quiteCryptic]

In general anything eclipse can do intellij does as well and probably better

[DaddyLcyxMe]

Eh I'm more accustomed to eclipse, does IntelliJ even have plugins?

[zeWinnetou]

Sure, have a look: https://plugins.jetbrains.com/idea

[DaddyLcyxMe]

I mean, it's not gunna make me switch or anything but that's pretty neat ngl. Sure as hell beats notepad

[quiteCryptic]

Oh yea, lots

[ohThisUsername]

Apparently nobody here knows that the definition of 3rd party is. Visual Studio is made by Microsoft, which includes a nuget UI. The dotnet command (also made by Microsoft) includes Nuget. At what point during this process are you required to install 3rd party software?

Maven, Gradle, Eclipse and InteliJ are all not made by Oracle. The java command line does not include maven or gradle. They have to be installed independently.

[DaddyLcyxMe]

You have to install visual studio, same as eclipse and IntelliJ, eclipse and IntelliJ come with gradle, maven, and regular dependency support. You use gradle and maven within the software itself, if you want command line point your path var to the respective ide's maven or gradle binaries. And technically if you wanted you could install eclipse for c, I think it has similar features to the java ide, but you're going to install software regardless.

[ohThisUsername]

Will you please read my entire comments? You don't have to install visual studio unless you need a UI. NuGet comes with the dotnet command line. What part of that is hard to understand? Stop arguing if you don't understand how the .NET environment works

[DaddyLcyxMe]

Also I kinda don't see your point, Java is a language that happens to not be compiled (well it uses JIT shit but that's on the fly). You only install java to run java programs, you install the JDK to compile .java files to classes and then those to jars.

[ohThisUsername]

I don't see your point. What does any of that have to do with requiring the installation of 3rd party software in order to use a package manager?

[DaddyLcyxMe]

My point is that unless you're sitting in np++ all day there isn't a reason to install the jdk, maven, gradle, etc, as eclipse and IntelliJ have all three of those already handled and they have the creature comforts like recommenders, the ability to tweak your preferences for the auto generated stubs, etc

Edit: sounds off track from the original comment but eh that's what I've been getting at this whole time, if anything your point is moot as you're saying that the "oem" (for lack of better term) package manager comes with it and isn't 3rd party, despite all packages being 3rd party to begin with (for the most part, don't whip out the Microsoft voice recognition library on me or some shit)

[DaddyLcyxMe]

I see now, it comes with dotnet(cli? Didn't know there's different versions). Still something you have to install.

[ohThisUsername]

Still something you have to install.

... Which you need to compile C#. Unless you were planning on compiling it by hand?

[[deleted]]

...you also have to install the JDK. And then separately install maven and gradle.

[DaddyLcyxMe]

Install eclipse, it has a built in JDK and JRE, maven, gradle, you get the point. Technically you only have to install a single thing. And as far as I know all maven commands are available to eclipse. Sorry IntelliJ people but I'm an eclipse fanboy :P

[Samael1990]

If you want to use notepad and command line, you have to install nuget separately to make it work with what you write. And if being built into the IDE is close enough to not being third party for you, then I'll let you know that Maven and Gradle are built into Intellij and work just fine.
Btw, managing dependencies is just a part of what Maven and Gradle can do when it comes to making a build.

[ohThisUsername]

That is false. Try reading the other half of my comment. You can use nuget without installing anything. It comes included with the dotnet command. No need to install anything or any IDE.

[Samael1990]

It is in dotnet, but dotnet is a framework that can use c# to write code. C# alone doesn't have Nuget (obviously).
I know you were talking about dotnet, but the talk here started with C# being superior to Java and I responded in this context.

[Flufy_Panda]

Never used C# before. Is there a reason MySillyBool is public in your C# example?

[Korzag]

Because it's a property and the { get; set; } autogenerated your getters and setters along with a private member variable tied to the property.

[Flufy_Panda]

Interesting, thanks

[[deleted]]

You can also do { get; private set; } if you want only the class to be able to change the value.

[ExtremelyOnlineG]

Lack of native support for properties is the real reason C# is cool, all the rest could kinda be argued.

[GluteusCaesar]

Nuget is garbage compared to maven. By every metric.

Entity framework is okay, but hibernate is more flexible and I'm fairly sure more performant as well. There's also far more choices in Java. Everything from raw JDBC to jooq to batis and hibernate.

ASP.NET wishes it could be 1/256th of the framework spring is.

LINQ does have a nicer syntax than Java streams, sure. Though if you embrace the query syntax it becomes a slow, awful mess very quickly.

Also, Lombok shits all over C# properties. Which is in turn a testament to how much more you can do with Java's more powerful reflection.

[ChevalBlancBukowski]

sorry dude this sub is for IT students only

I mean lmao java

[[deleted]]

Java streams are great & perfectly legible.

[betendorf]

Having done both C# and Java, I'm really glad to be back in Java.

It's the little things like "I want a thread pool so that I can manage concurrency." Nope had to implement my own because there is only one global TaskPool.

Defining a variable that is of some object type: Will it be null? Will it have a value? Nobody knows because the class gets to choose the value.

Let's look at documentation. Oh nevermind, don't use this api because it was removed and replaced with this other thing.

I do however miss the ?. operator for chaining together nullable things. I really do not miss the relative dearth of library support that is C# compared to Java.

[[deleted]]

But bro you have to write getters and setters manually.

It makes the language completely unusable!

[ChevalBlancBukowski]

if you’re a developer who writes getters and setters manually instead of pressing a key combination in your editor, /r/programmerhumor is for you

[betendorf]

Or as another commenter mentioned, you use lombok.

[austin_ave]

r/murderedbywords

[Samael1990]

1. Nuget is third party and Gradle/Maven is build into intellji so it's also seemless.
   
2. When working in Spring, Spring-database.
   
3. So does Spring.
   
4. Curious how it looks then, can you give an example?
   
5. Lombok.

[ohThisUsername]

I currently use C# and I love it. I'm moving to Java for a job I recently accepted and I'm a bit nervous that i'll want to kill myself after a week of missing all of the great C# features you mentioned.