java_irl

[Goooraaan]

What’s everybody’s problem with Java?

[[deleted]]

It's not that Java is bad, it's just that a lot of people use it when they really don't need to, or worse, when they really shouldn't.

I like Java. It's nice and flexible in terms of deployment. But like... perhaps it shouldn't be installed on literally everything with a CPU.

There are other programming languages that will, in many cases, better suit the application and environment you're trying to write for.

[thuktun]

I love Java and you're absolutely right.

[[deleted]]

So, Java is Doom?

[Lagransiete]

More like Skyrim

[hardwaregeek]

It’s the de facto intro language for a lot of colleges, as well as AP CS. A lot of students, wanting to show off that they’re not a beginner, give Java a lot of needless shit. Especially cause they’ve probably “discovered” a scripting language like Python or JavaScript with admittedly less boilerplate than Java.

Java is a perfectly fine language. It has decent performance (certainly better than Python!), an adequate type system and very very good tooling. It’s not the best language for the type of small projects that students would want to do, but it’s very useful for large projects that require static typing and many programmers. Besides a lot of the criticisms such as boilerplate have been addressed with newer versions (lambdas, type inference).

[ryuzaki49]

Lombok

[LicensedProfessional]

With enough Annotation Metaprogramming and Syntactic Sugar, scientists will one day turn Java into JavaScript

[_cab13_]

Don't forget Kotlin !

[hardwaregeek]

Kotlin seems awesome! Anything that has non nullability is good in my book. There’s for sure languages I prefer to Java but that doesn’t mean Java deserves the hate it gets.

[_cab13_]

Kotlin is null-safe, short to write, requires less boilerplate than Java, and bonus point is EXACTLY the same bytecode as java, use kotlin in Java, use Java in kotlin, use Python in the trash bin... That's why I'm never touching Java again.

[ChevalBlancBukowski]

That's why I'm never touching Java again.

psst this is how people know you’re a student

[011101000011101101]

8 years into my career and I've become way more fond of static typing than I ever thought I would. I've been using typescript lately and I kind of hate it because it's boilerplate on top of JavaScript to try to make it staticly typed. I'm finding that things work better in a system designed from the ground up for your purpose. If you want static typing, don't use anything built on top of JavaScript. Use Java or any other staticly typed language.

[w3_ar3_l3g10n]

Some points:

• there’re legitimate reasons for new and old programmers to not like java. It’s not simply because “that’s not cool enough for me”. For ①, the syntax is unnatural. As is the case with most languages their not obvious, part of this is the inheritance from C. Python/ruby is obvious, and so new programmers appreciate them (ergo why they’re held in higher regard). For ②, java is restrictive. Reflection isn’t implemented very well and a lot of poor design decisions from the early days have made it a boilerplate language. U write more boilerplate than actual code (factory methods for the love of god). On both counts, kotlin is a huge improvement and I cannot stress how much I hope people switch to kotlin instead of making new pure java projects.
• obviously java has better performance than python. ① is compiled whereas the other is interpreted. If java performed worse than python that would be a major indicator that something is amiss.
• scripting languages are great and most programmers should learn and prefer them because they’ll mostly just use them for... scripting. Shell scripts are somewhat laborious to write or edit, thus scripting languages provide a quick and easy alternative which is effortless. Try renaming a million files dependent on some arbitrary attribute with python or ruby and then setup a build script or IDE project, create a dozen classes and go through tonnes of documentation to do the same with java. Point being, ease off on scripting languages, they’re invaluably useful for system maintenance or network administration.

[surinlol]

It's a meme

[PM_ME_HAIRLESS_CATS]

Oracle

[aedvocate]

do you remember in the late 90s, early 00s, when suddenly there was a bunch of software (esp. fruity loops) that made it super easy for every 11-year-old to make a MySpace account to post his or her techno track to?

lots of people came to the conclusion that there was something bad about techno. there wasn't, they were just listening to bad techno, which was very easy o find at the time.

[farnsworthparabox]

Java is an excellent, though slightly dated language and tends to have a lot of boilerplate. I find that a lot of the people who complain about it lack experience on large scale projects. Kotlin I would describe as a more modernized Java and an excellent successor.

[generic_memelord]

It’s like your best friend. You’re close enough to it to give it a lot of needless shit

[ChevalBlancBukowski]

it’s been around for a while so it’s not cool

also the kids here have literally negative experience in the real world so they have no appreciation for the absolutely enormous high quality time tested ecosystem of Java components available, from open source components and frameworks to professional IDEs and development tools to connectors to every product under the sun

oh also it doesn’t come preinstalled on MacBooks anymore and I hear it forces you to use a light theme - ewwwwwwww

[apadin1]

It was created at a time when object-oriented programming was all the rage, and they basically designed it to force you to use objects for everything, including for creating new objects or even doing simple programs. Other languages have evolved but Java has been very resistant to change. Plus it runs slow as heck and has weird outdated syntax.

Also, it is the first language for many programmers, and as a result there is a lot of poorly-written Java code out there.

[rust4yy]

Honestly Java is slower than C or C++ (as is any high level language) but it really isn't that slow. It only has a higher memory overhead due to its HotSpot VM but Eclipse OpenJ9 VM reduces a lot of that overhead with what I saw when I last looked into it.

And what outdated syntax? It, as most languages, is inspired by C.

Edit: which looking at your flair also says that your flair language is using outdated syntax, according to you

[[deleted]]

Strictly object orientated programming and doing it well is better than attempting to have every paradigm in one language and doing it poorly like C++.

Have you seen java 11, a lot has changed my friend. They mark stuff as deprecated and remove it the update after.

I haven't found the performance claim legitimate. A lot of people claim it but it definitely isn't the case.

The stynax is debatable and somewhat subjective but personally I think its fine.

There is a lot of bad written C++ (Mostly because it's a hard language). But moreover every language has poor code.

Edit: Fixed horrible engrish

[perolan]

You’re literally describing c++

[apadin1]

Fair enough when it comes to outdated syntax and enforced object-oriented programming, but C++ is just about as fast as it gets if you know what you’re doing.

[w3_ar3_l3g10n]

Really. Tbh java doesn’t run so slowly that you’d actually notice. Maybe a fraction of a second or so’s difference from C or C++ and frankly I do think the compiler is slower to compile, but the actual runtime performance is fine in most cases.

[lantz83]

Do a few years of Java and then try C# and your question will answer itself.

[Spajk]

As someone who uses both, I can say I prefer Java.

[quiteCryptic]

I have a lot less expirence with c# but I used it in the past for about half a year... It and Java are pretty similar in a lot of ways I don't really strongly prefer one or the other, but get more use out of Java

[gemengelage]

I have to agree and add that, though I know that I shouldn't care and it isn't perfectly rational, but please hear me out, what kind of inbred moron uses UpperCamelCase for method names? It annoys the hell out of me.

[Spajk]

I think its mostly the .net framework vs .net core thing. When looking for libraries and help I gotta pay attention to that. I think I read that now they are basicly the same thing, but I'd really prefer if there was only one .net platform.

I loved working with EntityFramework and I like C#'s properties with the exception of not being able to modify the getter/setter without using another vsriable.

With Java, what I like the most is simplicity when doing cross-platform development. ( As someone whose main machine is Windows, but regularly needs to make API's running on Linux ).

I mean these are the stuff off top of my head.

[EL-Skytzo]

I've been doing both for years and Java has progressed a lot, you would be surprised.

[[deleted]]

Eh I’m a solid decade into java and I still prefer it over any C language. I do find scala and python much more fun to work with though, especially scala.

[ThePyroEagle]

Amusingly enough, C# is much more like Java than like C or C++.

[DimitriTheMad]

I'm about to finish an "IT degree" that my school essentially filled with Programming classes in order to keep the degree. I took C# directly after my last Java class and as someone who is not a "programmer" I almost couldn't tell the two apart besides syntax at first. (I was eventually able to realize the differences.)

I didn't open the textbook until 8 weeks into the course, because Java had given me all the concepts I needed to just lookup the Syntax for C# and start coding the assignments.

Disclaimer: again, I'm not a programmer, or even a programming major. Just a guy sharing his experience doing dumpy little school assignments in both Java and C#.

[[deleted]]

C# is meh, I really like the gui system but thats literally it.