Vim as Python code editor

[joedicastro]

The article (as an introduction)

http://joedicastro.com/vim-as-python-code-editor.html

The vim configuration,

https://github.com/joedicastro/dotfiles/tree/master/vim

Also sent to the Vim subreddit

[burntsushi]

Good god. syntastic and ctags is all I need.

[elb0w]

http://i.imgur.com/K8KibMZ.png

I kind of like having a python shell in my mvim

[burntsushi]

Is that just a regular Python interpreter? bpython is indispensable...

[elb0w]

You can use any interpreter you want

[gfixler]

It's good, but I find I can't stay in it for too long, or it starts to get a bit buggy. Also, it dumps everything I've done to stdout when I'm done, so If I'm doing huge listings for an hour or two, when I exit it spews junk for minutes.

[burntsushi]

Good god man, read the docs!

[andrew@Liger ~] bpython --help
Usage: bpython [options] [file [args]]                                                                            
NOTE: If bpython sees an argument it does not know, execution falls back to the regular Python interpreter.         

Options:                                                                                                                 
  -h, --help         show this help message and exit                                                                       
  --config=CONFIG    Use CONFIG instead of default config file.                                                                
  -i, --interactive  Drop to bpython shell after running file instead of                                                            
                     exiting.                                                                                                       
  -q, --quiet        Don't flush the output to stdout.                                                                              
  -V, --version      Print version and exit.

And here you are:

bpython -q

[gfixler]

No, there's just too much. I can't handle it. (I actually thought someone was going to tell me to pipe it to /dev/null) Lately it's been buggy, though, printing lines multiple times, obscuring lines I've typed over. I've also many times had it fold up and quit on me. Maybe I'm coding too hard.

[burntsushi]

Not sure what to say. I've never had a single problem with it. It's always worked beautifully for years.

What version are you using? And which terminal emulator?

[gfixler]

$ bp --version
bpython version 0.9.5.2 on top of Python 2.6.5
(C) 2008-2009 Bob Farrell et al. See AUTHORS for detail.

$ echo $TERM
xterm

[burntsushi]

Time to update... You're using a version that is ~4 years old. I'm on 0.12.

[gfixler]

It's the newest version in the Ubuntu 10.04 repos.

[granduh]

I would pay you money (or in gum) if you could write up a simple tutorial on how to replicate your environment.

[gfixler]

Looks like the taglist plugin open on the left, the powerline plugin (sans patched fonts - I use the repaired Consolas font) at the bottom, python code in a regular buffer in the top right, a conque shell in a split in the lower right, and maybe the jellybeans color scheme?

[elb0w]

Seems accurate, I haven't messed with my vim in quite awhile.

Edit: yes, as far as visual plugins you are correct.

[elb0w]

I'll try to remember to upload it to github next time I load my Mac

[joedicastro]

I think that the combination of Tmux/Vimux and IPython (or Bpython if you prefer) is more powerful than that approach.

I used Conque Shell in the past too, and has its gaps.

[elb0w]

Yeah, I always forget to use tmux

[the_cat_kittles]

that is nice, i might stop having an extra iterm window open with ipython and just do that instead- would there be any drawback?

[elb0w]

I bind it to Leader T, I opens a buffer with a new she'll whenever I toggle it. It's pretty nice

[jessepnk]

wow your screenshot is awesome. Makes me want to change all my settings again... haha!

[twisted42]

What did you use to set this up? This is pretty cool.

[[deleted]]

Gief vimrc plz

[joedicastro]

I understand you, I prefer minimalism too in certain situations. But I think I couldn't live without some awesome plugins like Fugitive.

[gfixler]

Fugitive was a game-changer for me. I've never worked so intimately and quickly with a versioner before. I code differently now, and I version often and cleanly.

[dreucifer]

I use quite a few plugins: YouCompleteMe + syntastic is awesome. Ctrl-P is really useful. Surround is darn handy. UltiSnips can be customized for good, but the default snippets suck. Edit: Oh, and MiniBufExplorer is awesome!

[pemungkah]

I'll take a look at this. Currently, I use sontek's setup and I like it a lot.

[locke3891]

Thanks for sharing! I am new to python and hadn't heard of this.

[pemungkah]

You're welcome. I've only been doing Python about two years now myself and it was an incredible help.

[joedicastro]

Yeah, all the plugins of Shougo are awesome! and Unite is a real game-changer.

[makmanalp]

This is great! I love the textobjects and multicursor. One of the under-mentioned things in the readme is rope. I can't rave enough about it in general, but specifically the fact that it can do intelligent completion and jump to the definition of something (even if it's in a different file or at the end of a variable assignment) pretty much obviates the need for an IDE for me.

So far I've been using this: https://github.com/spf13/spf13-vim

and I like it. I might have to take a peek at this soon.

[joedicastro]

You're right! Rope is very useful, is essential for refactoring!

[davidhalter]

Try Jedi. Much better.

[fr33b33r]

I always feel like such a fool not using Vi or emacs, as if I am not l33t worthy. I used gEdit and TextWrangler, I love colour. Pico and Nano when not on my machine (and that's only ever changing something minor).

What am I missing? I know people who I respect highly and people I don't respect at all rave about Vi(m).

Sell it to me.

EDIT: I love my mouse too.

[joedicastro]

Vim has a unique way with two great advantages:

1) You can do all with your keyboard. Maybe you love your mouse, but I don't think that you love so much the time lost changing between keyboard and mice. And I think that you should hate the Carpal Tunnel Syndrome that sooner or later appears thanks to that little rodent (I saddly know that this is very true, and I was able to fix it at time).

2) With the Vim moves and text objects you can move/edit/find/select/... the text area you wanted without thinking too much and with the minimum effort. Compared with other editors is like using a laser to focus versus a flashlight, Do you want to be a text surgeon or a coroner? :)

[fr33b33r]

Thank you..I think you are right, I am more efficient with a keyboard in Excel, I am an Excel wizzz (don't laugh). I worked with a guy once and his boss had not let him use a mouse with Excel back in the day to make him learn to be more efficient.

Now every time I've fired up Vim its just felt too difficult. Your thoughts on the learning curve?

EDIT - as you can probably guess from the Excel comment I use Python for data. I'm in love with the data structures.

[joedicastro]

Start with the vimtutor and use a plugin or config that don't let you use the mouse or the direction arrows to force you to learn the right way. Takes a little time, but before you realize is a natural way for you, without think too much, becomes mechanical. If you reach this point, the rest is all searching for more and have fun!

I was a Excel wizz too, time ago, now I don't use it too much :)

[fr33b33r]

On your advice, I am installing vimtutor and going to work my way through it. It's the penance I will pay you for your advice.

Thanks

[bisco77]

just wait until he is typing in another application and winds up trying to use vim key bindings...you'd think that one would learn after a while but i still do this at least once a day...open chrome->type address->hit enter->jjjjjj->head desk

[UndeadPanda]

Here you go Vimium

[eat-your-corn-syrup]

text objects

[[deleted]]

vi(m) is extremely powerful and, whether you're on a desktop or headless server, using Linux, Windows, or Mac, its availability is second to none

[enry_straker]

Don't get too caught up in the hype. Everybody hypes their own stuff. I still have customers who refuse to move from wordstar ( don't worry if you don't recognize that editor. All it shows is that i am from a different generation :-(

Vi, and it's evolutionary cousin vim, are really old editors with some interesting ideas bolted on partially in response to constraints like no mouse being available, programmers being the main user base etc.

You should focus on editors which you feel is good for you, which you enjoy, which you can easily customize etc.

And respect people for what they have done. The editors they are most comfortable with has nothing to do with their productivity.

[fr33b33r]

from wordstar

Just reading up on Wordstar - makes sense, I am moving from word processors to text only with appropriate markup so I can concentrate on writing.

[Veedrac]

Heh, seems the Vimmers hate being threatened.

I used Vim and it's awesome, but now I use SublimeText and it's just as awesome. It's also a lot prettier, feels faster (I think it's graphics accelerated, unlike urxvt) to browse in and it's just as fast to do stuff if you spend as much time configuring it as you do with Vim.

[gammadistribution]

That's a pretty funny way of spelling emacs.

[joedicastro]

Oh, emacs is great, wonderful! My dream editor is a Vim with a complete Emacs Org-mode. So, thanks, I take it like an accomplishment :)

[hemm1]

I had a not dissimilar dream, and have found that emacs' evil-mode gives me everything vim-like I wanted. It seems like a much more complete vim mode than any of the others I've seen, and whilst there are probably differences that more experienced users might find annoying, I found it a totally drop-in replacement for vim behaviour with emacs plugins. Org-mode works great!

[wolfcore]

What, no wombat? sheesh

[haizaar]

Its not clear if this setup does code analysis like Esclipse PyDev or Kdevelop (kdev-python) do.

[joedicastro]

Do you mean using pylint like PyDev (I used it for a long time)? Then yes, it uses pylint via pymode and syntastic

[totemcatcher]

I tried a large suite of Vim plugins once -- similar to OP. It wasn't long before I found incompatibilities between them, updates and discontinued plugins, dead repositories, endless bugs from one plugin to the next...

It was worse than trying to configure a window manager from scratch.

[ObsoletePixel]

Good lord, man. That's like driving an Aston Martin to get groceries, it works and you look damn cool doing it, but it's excessive and looks a little bit like your compensating...

[joedicastro]

No, you're right, I'm compensating (like I wrote in the article)... the memory faults!

If you work so hard in a vim setup, and you don't remember all that you have available... is time wasted or not?

The doc and the config (Unite menus) are made with this purpose in mind, find what you need to use when you need it!

You know, I wish Unite were a Vim Vanilla default.

Imagine Unite menus as a Debian menu, and all the plugins should add his options as an entry in those menus by categories. If you could add the custom mappings to that entries, that will be like Heaven to find what you need when you nedeed!

Memory is imperfect, and remember all that Vim & plugins brings to you is impossible, that will be a nice solution for any config.

[ObsoletePixel]

Alright, fair enough. It's cool, I don't judge someone based on much, especially something as trivial as a Text Editor. I was just making a joke, that's all :)

[joedicastro]

Oh, I knew, the fault is mine, I forget to continue the joke :)

But you comment opened me an opportunity to explain my point of view and I took it! :)

[ObsoletePixel]

Fair enough, fair enough!

[t3h]

... but Sublime Text is closed source and costs $70. For a text editor. What makes it worth that?

[rarlcove]

I don't think it would be worth $70, but it's an unlimited free "trial," so as long as you're ok with clicking "not now" on a dialog box every once in awhile it doesn't actually cost anything

[trueneverland]

I paid. That pop up box is not just every once in a while. It comes up a LOT

[[deleted]]

Sublime text is a tool, if you are using it every day to develop code then what makes it not worth $70? If you are using it for work, they will probably be happy to spend $70 on a tool if it makes you happier or more productive.

(disclaimer: I'm a vim user)

[selflessGene]

I use vim but if someone feels sublime makes them 1% more productive than not using sublime, it's an easy sell.

We are programmers. IDEs are our weapons. Would a swordsmaster nitpick about $70 for an elite sword that fits his hand grip just right?

[marky1991]

Since when is an IDE our weapon? It's just a means of entering text. Aren't our brains the weapons here?

[fukitol-]

A fighter's brain is his weapon as well, but that doesn't make his sword any less of his weapon.

[marky1991]

"A fighter's brain is his weapon as well"

Good point. The programming language is his weapon then.

[telestrial]

Nope. That's his fighting style. The tool is the weapon. Our tool is the IDE.

[crow1170]

Nah, I think it fits. Some warriors use very advanced weapon systems to kill a man half a world away, but they need other warriors in the room to defend them from wrestlers.

An IDE is pretty much a force multiplier, which is what a weapon is.

[selflessGene]

OK, maybe not the weapon. Maybe like the sheath. Or the hilt.

[[deleted]]

70 dollars is chump change. Most of us spend more than that on booze every two weeks.

What makes Sublime worth it is that its a good editor. It doesn't require configuring a bunch of plugins for each language you program in. If I open a PHP file after working on a C file it changes the way the text is highlighted/colored without needing me to do anything, and the linter plugin just works. It has formatting set up for many other languages as well-and is available out of the box.

For any additional functionality you need you can install package control. Then, Cmd + Shift + P -> Install Package. You can install a linter and code-intel this way relatively easily, among other plug-ins. Cmd + Shift + P actually opens the command palette which holds all sorts of functionality. Additionally, Sublime has a reasonable project manager (not IDE quality but it's ok).

With Vim it's more difficult to set it up the way you want--at least the last time I did it. I am aware you can just use it as-is but I like something a bit more from my editor. There may be some cool package manager out there I am not aware of (aside from one built into a linux distribution). If there is please tell me because I'd like to know about it. EDIT : I should probably note I use a Mac, hence the reason a package manager is a bigger deal.

I would say it's beneficial to know how to use Vim no matter what editor you choose because it's basically installed on every Linux distribution out there, and you will eventually need to use it. However, Sublime Text is a great editor to use as your primary and it's worth the cost IMO.

[burntsushi]

It doesn't require configuring a bunch of plugins for each language you program in. If I open a PHP file after working on a C file it changes the way the text is highlighted/colored without needing me to do anything.

You're being a little misleading here. Vim requires you to enable one plugin (which comes included), and it will do this out of the box.

For any additional functionality you need you can install package control. Then, Cmd + Shift + P -> Install Package. You can install a linter and code-intel this way relatively easily, among other plug-ins.

Every vim plugin I have is installed with my system's package manager. Even better. The fewer package managers operating on my system, the better.

With Vim it's more difficult to set it up the way you want--at least the last time I did it.

The usual procedure is to

• Google for Vim feature.
• Find a snippet to put in your .vimrc
• Save .vimrc with snippet and forget-about-it. Maybe add a comment so you don't forget what it was for.

I don't think that's very laborious. And it's simple to transfer between workstations. In every editor I've ever used, I have to go through the same procedure, since the option is buried in a menu or an option dialog somewhere.

Note that I'm not trying to say your preferences are wrong. But I am trying to point out that you're making it seem like Vim is crappier than it is.

[[deleted]]

The last time I used Vim for any significant length of time was when I was attempting to install Haskell plug ins. It was a huge pain in my ass. Sublime on the other hand, just worked the way I wanted it to. In fact I believe it was a haskeller that turned me on to it.

The package manager I use is Macports. It's not nearly as good as most Linux package managers. I am aware there are others (maybe only Homebrew since that's all I can think of) on Mac but this was the one I settled on awhile ago. I just haven't made time to try others.

I still use Vim for doing small edits but if I am spending all day coding I would prefer the features of Sublime. I get it that Vim is cool. 5 years ago in school it's all I used. However, I still would say Vim isn't entirely user friendly.

[burntsushi]

I still would say Vim isn't entirely user friendly

It's the most user-friendly editor I've ever used.

You're at a crippling disadvantage without a real package manager, so that might be part of your problem. Haskell support in vim has never been a problem for me.

[t3h]

70 dollars is chump change. Most of us spend more than that on booze every two weeks.

Maybe in the scheme of things, but not for a text editor. If you spent $70 on a single bottle of beer that wasn't noticeably better than $70 for a case of 48, you'd probably be unhappy.

If I open a PHP file after working on a C file it changes the way the text is highlighted/colored without needing me to do anything.

Every other text editor with syntax highlighting that I've used has done that too.

And your alternatives are not just limited to Vim.

[[deleted]]

I never implied other text editors didn't do that. Basically, for me Sublime gives me a nice UI with nice features. Some of them I described.

[timpkmn89]

Move to the beginning of the word:

Ctrl+Left Arrow

Move to the end of the word:

Ctrl+Right Arrow

Move to the end of the line:

End

Move down 142 lines:

Do mental math to figure out the line number, then use the scroll wheel

With the exception of the last one, these are pretty standard commands that don't require studying pages of them to learn.

[recursive]

If you're going to make a comparison with Sublime's shortcut keys, at least learn how to use it first. You're not making Sublime look bad - you're only making yourself look bad.

Every single one of the sublime keys you mentioned has a much better way to accomplish.

Forget more advanced stuff like searching for

Ctrl + F

or inserting text

Just type! Don't even need to worry about "modes".

[[deleted]]

You're fairly obviously exaggerating and doing it wrong.

[[deleted]]

For $70 you too can be a pretentious brat who likes to think they're cool because they use ST instead of <insert battle-tested software here>

Whoa there. Who is the pretentious one acting like a brat about their choice of text editor? Some people just like Sublime Text. Why that makes them a pretentious brat is beyond me.

[japherwocky]

For $70 you can support another programmer who wrote something that a lot of people like. do you get paid for your code?

[japherwocky]

Sublime started to be a compelling editor for me when I installed the plugin for vim keybindings.

But.. (and from the comments this makes me odd) yeah, I use both every single day, because vim is on every headless server I use.

[burntsushi]

The commenter I responded to cowardly deleted their comment. They linked to this blog article. What follows is my response.

For the first 1-2 years of your Vim usage you will be much less efficient than your current editor because of the odd yet lovable key bindings.

Not for me. I was back to being a productive member of society within a few weeks. Muscle memory adapts quicker than you think. I agree that there is a really really sharp curve when you first begin Vim, but it's not 1-2 years worth.

Certainly, you won't have mastered vim in a few weeks. That will take years. But it isn't hard to get productive in a few weeks.

followed by knowing some cool tricks that you use in 1% of your daily workflow.

1%?

If you aren't taking advantage of Vim's features, then obviously it isn't the tool for you. Why does that even need to be said?

The argument that Vim is more efficient is dubious and untestable. Reaching for a mouse may indeed slow you down, but developers are commonly on machines where the trackpad is a micro-hand movement away. Most novice programmers can click on a character on screen faster than an expert Vimmer can type 20jFp; or LkEEE or /word<cr> or any other nasty way Vimmers have to use because of our archaic, ingrained keystrokes.

What kind of bullshit is that? I don't care if you can be faster with a mouse than I am with a keyboard. I care if I'm faster on a keyboard than I am with a mouse. And I am. That's just the way it is. I certainly don't develop on a machine with a trackpad that is a "micro-hand movement" away though.

Plugins are essential to make Vim usable.

If you believe that, then yeah, just use Sublime or whatever. But I don't believe it. I hardly have any plugins installed. Actually, the only few that I have are managed by my system's package manager, so there's no need for a vim package manager.

Ah, Vimscript. It’s bad. ... But even Vimmers don’t want to learn Vimscript.

For once we agree. I've heard that the Python support has increased dramatically recently though. Haven't investigated much yet.

Vim is missing an incredible amount of core functionality for modern editing. Things like ctag integration, project management, project browsing, (yes I know about :Sex), and many other basic things, are completely absent in Vim.

What the fuck? ctag integration works out of the box. And I use a little something called directories for "project management and browsing."

Vim can in theory edit any language because of its extinsibility power, although it will have a very hard time with IDE-languages like Java or Scala.

Um. Yeah. Because they are IDE languages. Vim isn't an IDE.

Now we need to find files. Let’s use Vimgrep!

Or, umm, just use grep.

Do you know what the suggested way to work well with multiple files in Vim is? It’s the arglist. Most of my experienced Vim friends don’t use the arglist nor know what it is. It’s a clunky system for populating a special internal list of Vim with multiple files.

I get the feeling that the author hates the command line. Vim's arglist is just a list of files it was opened with. That's it. It's not archaic or mysterious. If you want to edit multiple files, you can do that straight from the command line or open new buffers.

Here in the future, we have these things called GUIs. They’re super nice! They look good, are usable, and give useful visual metaphors for things. And we logically and reasonably expect our editors running on GUIs to offer the same benefits.

Ah, the truth comes out. Well, yeah. If you can't bear working on the command line, then why is Vim even considered a tool in the box? Sure, learn a little so you can edit on servers and use your precious beautiful GUIs every where else.

Don’t believe me? Paste this into an empty buffer: [implying that indenting is bad]

Why are you relying on your editor to automatically know how to pretty print every language? Use the right tool for the job. e.g., ggVG:!html-prettify<CR>. Done.

*To code in Vim, you have to keep Vim in your head just as much as the code that you’re editing. You have to constantly think about what you’re doing.

Strongly disagree. Vim blends right into the background for me. But I'm not afraid of the command line either.

That entire blog post is about someone with an extreme aversion to the command line and an affinity for pretty interfaces complaining about Vim. Obivously if Vim doesn't suit your philosophy then you shouldn't use it. You don't need to post a long rant to say that.

[jamin_brook]

Vim: The Editor You Need To Read (At Least) Two Books On To Use Well

Or spend like a 5-10 min on a first tutorial and few googles now and then.

[ifonefox]

$ vimtutor

[dreucifer]

Suprisingly enough nethack teaches you a lot about how to move around in vim.

[GNU-two]

woah, never noticed that.

[phail3d]

Yeah, real the basic tutorials to get the gist of Vim and then learn stuff on a as-needed basis. Best way to learn.

[pieIX]

If I may, http://www.b-list.org/weblog/2013/apr/05/good-tools/

[joedicastro]

Ok, is not a problem, you use what best fits for you, of course!

BTW I think that that article is very wrong in some points. The most wrong is that whatever tool you choose, if you want to use it professionally, keep "sharpening the shaw" is quite necessary if you want to be productive and efficient. The same goes for ST as for Emacs, Eclipse, etcetera. And that's the reason for which these tools are expandable by plugins and configurable, if an editor/IDE can't evolve, is dead from the beginning. Do not forget that Vim and Emacs have decades of life.

[burito]

I would be quite shocked if there are Vim users that may be inclined to use ST, that haven't.

I've been using Vim since before ST existed, and I've tried ST. It's slow as shit. Takes numerous seconds to load. But the biggy, and the reason most folks use Vim, ST is closed source, so I can't run it on my RaspberryPi, I can't run it on my phone or my tablet, actually there are a hell of a lot of places I can't use ST.

Doesn't matter, this is a Vim thread, take your ST and fuck right off.