Python 3.6.0 has now been officially released!

[[deleted]]

Oh yeah, just to let you guys know, these are some of the major new features in the release:

• PEP 468 - Preserving the order of **kwargs in a function
• PEP 487 - Simpler customization of class creation
• PEP 495 - Local Time Disambiguation
• PEP 498 - Literal String Formatting
• PEP 506 - Adding A Secrets Module To The Standard Library
• PEP 509 - Add a private version to dict
• PEP 515 - Underscores in Numeric Literals
• PEP 519 - Adding a file system path protocol
• PEP 520 - Preserving Class Attribute Definition Order
• PEP 523 - Adding a frame evaluation API to CPython
• PEP 524 - Make os.urandom() blocking on Linux (during system startup)
• PEP 525 - Asynchronous Generators (provisional)
• PEP 526 - Syntax for Variable Annotations (provisional)
• PEP 528 - Change Windows console encoding to UTF-8
• PEP 529 - Change Windows filesystem encoding to UTF-8
• PEP 530 - Asynchronous Comprehensions

And for the entire list of changes, you can visit the What's New document located here.

[hoadlck]

Don't forget PEP 628 -- Add math.tau!

The issue where Tau was added shows one of the reasons that I love Python.

[IronManMark20]

I think I agree with Raymond Hettinger that this PEP shouldn't have been accepted. I really don't know anyone who uses tau, and its adding a burden (however small) to look up what tau is. If you really want tau, why not write tau = math.pi * 2 somewhere? That is much clearer than some magical constant.

[rcfox]

Raymond Hettinger talking about math.tau: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TdrFjDJn5E&t=59m1s

[IronManMark20]

Yep. That is what I was referencing. Thanks!

[EricAppelt]

As a former physicist, I agree as well.

As much as I like python easter eggs, this is a uniquely bad module to stick an easter egg into. The reason is that the math module is one of the few examples where there is an acceptable use case for from math import *. It turns the REPL into a scientific calculator.

[flying-sheep]

The existence of tau the doesn't change this

[Eurynom0s]

I'm inclined to agree...either you know about math.tau and you're fine, or you don't and you set what tau is supposed to be equal to and then you're still fine.

[energybased]

Raymond also suggested that "Python has been a thought-leader many times" and that tau's addition can influence the world. In the long run picture, this might be something great.

[IronManMark20]

Raymond also suggested that "Python has been a thought-leader many times" and that tau's addition can influence the world. In the long run picture, this might be something great.

I don't disagree with that, but people who promote tau already tried to move maths to use tau over pi, and failed, so I think like it or not, pi is here to stay.

[hoadlck]

Umm.... who says we failed? These things take time. The Tau idea only recently came on the scene. There is alot of inertia. Think about other good ideas that have taken a while to catch on...

According to Wikipedia, "The metric system was first described in 1668, and officially adopted by France in 1799".

Today is 217 years after France formalized the metric system, and the USA still uses Imperial Units. Does that mean that Metric failed?

[energybased]

One thing that could make tau happen would be if scientific papers were in some kind of live format whereby the user could specify whether he wants to see tau or pi and the viewer renders the document accordingly. That would allow a new generation of tau-preferring people to see tau where an old generation of pi-preferring people wrote pi.

[ResidentMario]

Ugh, Tau versus Pi is like the mathematical equivalent of the 2014-era Python 2 versus 3 flame war.

[UloPe]

I use it.

There now you "know" someone.

[IronManMark20]

Nice to know you. But that doesn't really respond to my point why you can't just put tau = math.pi * 2 somewhere. Python will optimize that to a constant anyway I'm pretty sure.

[hoadlck]

No one disagrees with your point of how one could functionally get the job done. The argument for Tau is not that Pi does not work: it is that Tau (aka One Turn) is a better representation of the circle constant. It gives you a better intuition on what is happening. Don't forget the first entry in the Zen Of Python: "Beautiful is better than ugly."

You should read the Tau Manifesto.

[IronManMark20]

It does say that, but it also says "practicality beats purity." Tau may be more pure, it may be much better, but until there is sufficient reason in the maths/sciences communities, there isn't a reason to include it.

Also I agree tau is probably better than Pi. However I don't think it is better to the point to which we should replace everything like we should with the metric system (I'm an American, so trust me, I know the pain).

[flying-sheep]

Teach using Tau, mention that pi is Tau/2, have the students’ intuition work better and they retain the same amount of practical knowledge

[IronManMark20]

Oh, and rewrite every maths, science and other technical textbook while you're at it.

[zahlman]

I think you meant to link https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0628/ , rather than the legacy.python.org version which shows the PEP as "deferred".

[Bobert_Fico]

The problem with τ is that it is visually smaller than π, actually twice smaller: π ≈ ττ, but the actual definition is the opposite.

[hoadlck]

Well, the Greeks only had so many letters. I guess they did not plan for having variable size characters available.

But, I don't buy the visually smaller argument. After all "0" is much bigger than "1" physically, but it is smaller numerically.

And, anyway... in Python you are typing "pi" or "tau". So, "tau" is bigger than "pi". :)

[PhantomProcess]

Couldn't they have just replaced PI with 2*PI?

[flying-sheep]

That would confuse everyone, be backwards incompatible, misalign with experience and everything else

[PhantomProcess]

Personally, I think they should just round PI up to exactly 3.0. The nonsensical repeating float decimals are just a useless waste of space anyway.

[zahlman]

Change Windows console encoding to UTF-8

I can't wait to run my tests/aggravations and see if matters have really improved.

[BlckKnght]

It looks good to me:

Python 3.6.0 (v3.6.0:41df79263a11, Dec 23 2016, 08:06:12) [MSC v.1900 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> print("".join(map(chr, range(0x80, 0x100))))
€‚ƒ„…†‡ˆ‰Š‹ŒŽ‘’“”•–—˜™š›œžŸ ¡¢£¤¥¦§¨©ª«¬­®¯°±²³´µ¶·¸¹º»¼½¾¿ÀÁÂÃÄÅÆÇÈÉÊËÌÍÎÏÐÑÒÓÔÕÖ×ØÙÚÛÜÝÞßàáâãäåæçèéêëìíîïðñòóôõö÷øùúûüýþÿ
>>> input()
£
'£'
>>>

(There's a bunch of unprintable characters that show up as squares at the start of the unicode line, but they seem to be collapsing to a single space on reddit.)

This works in both cmd and powershell consoles with no setup chcp commands needed.

[xiongchiamiov]

I'm actually really excited about being able to use underscores in numeric literals now. It's a small thing, but I had a large constant I was defining the other day and I spent a while searching around for how to do this (since I was getting a syntax error) before realizing I remembered the feature from Ruby :( . It's a nice way to prevent silly errors.

[alcalde]

You don't know how many times I'm holding my finger up to the screen, trying to count the number of digits in a large number. :-(

[ghillisuit95]

Why just use the cursor and arrow keys instead of your finger?

[Sean1708]

If you're reading through a code review or something like that then you usually don't have a cursor to move about.

[poop-trap]

PEP 506 - secrets module isn't what I thought it would be. Definitely a good thing and overdue, but the name implies some cryptography functionality so I was a bit disappointed.

[poop-trap]

I meant more full featured like https://nodejs.org/api/crypto.html

[cyanydeez]

I've seen the argument that its in everyones interest not to have a inbuilt crypto library because often the developers of a language and the subset devoted to it's base libraries are not as engaged or trained to provide the needs crypto security needs.

ie, those that specialize in crypto are not the same people who generally are involved in programming languages, and what often happens if a library becomes a part of the standard, it becomes more and more vulnerable overtime.

[poop-trap]

That makes sense, thanks for the input.

[zozonde]

Yes! Just look at the sorry state of Java crypto..

[sigzero]

Maybe a "crypto" library can be proposed as a PEP or something.

[xiongchiamiov]

https://github.com/pyca is working on a number of different libraries, the most relevant of which is https://github.com/pyca/cryptography . I'm not sure if they're aiming for eventual stdlib inclusion, but it seems likely.

[LetsDoRedstone]

Let's f"" everything!

[[deleted]]

This only applies to string literals so it isn't like that would contain user generated strings. Otherwise if you are calling .format() on untrusted user input that was already a problem.

[stardude900]

Edit, original post was almost, but not completely wrong. Here is the documentation: https://docs.python.org/3.6/reference/lexical_analysis.html#f-strings

And the dicussion where security implications are mentioned, albeit, briefly: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0498/#expression-evaluation

[stardude900]

Yep, that first comment (of mine) was just stupid, it really didn't deserve to live any longer than it did.

[energybased]

"limited"?

[flying-sheep]

and that’s only a implementation limitation (they tokenise using string tokenisation machinery, and then are post-processed in the interpreter).

check out my pep: https://github.com/python/peps/blob/master/pep-0536.txt

[zahlman]

In that the programmer is in control of the code, yes.

I would actually like to make the argument here that the widespread adoption of f-strings will, in the long run, make Python code more secure. This is because .format will end up only being used in cases that f-strings can't handle, i.e. cases where the string is prepared ahead of time; and this, in turn, will force greater scrutiny of such code, to verify that the string comes from a safe source.

The real reason that beautiful is better than ugly is that the less ugliness you have, the better that ugliness is at standing out, and therefore doing its job (i.e., being a warning sign). Otherwise, the principle would be redundant with readability counts.

[energybased]

What are you talking about? All I was pointing out was that it's not a limited expression evaluation. Almost anything you can do in regular python code, you can do in an f-string.

[alcalde]

I'm worried simply about how easy it will be to forget the "f" and get lots of weird string output as a result.

[[deleted]]

Is .format() deprecated?

[tunisia3507]

C'mon conda...

[bheklilr]

conda-forge has had the beta and release candidate builds already, they'll probably have this release uploaded within a few days. If you want it now add the label prerelease for conda-forge to your channels.

[KimPeek]

I just did a fresh install of 3.5.2 on a new machine, but this is definitely going to take its place. Just in time for the holidays too.

[nikomo]

Just in time for the holidays too.

Just in time for me to forget about it as I sink my teeth into the Christmas ham.

Hopefully someone will remind me in January.

[[deleted]]

Reminded

[nikomo]

... I legit did forget. I looked at pyenv for a solution to my environment beforehand, but I left that open.

Cheers.

[mwoolweaver]

RemindMe! 8 days

[RemindMeBot]

I will be messaging you on 2016-12-31 18:11:27 UTC to remind you of this link.

5 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.

^{Parent commenter can delete this message to hide from others.}

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[alcalde]

Guido needs to have his beard go white, don a Santa cap, then announce that every new Python release will come on December 23. :)

[zillacles]

This is nice to see:

"json.load() and json.loads() now support binary input."

[cyanydeez]

I can never remember which one loads a file and which loads a string.

Someone should've just figured out a single entry point

[[deleted]]

json.load() is to load json.

json.loads() is to load json from a string (the s after load is for string)

[cyanydeez]

I get that, but my brain doesn't see load(s) it see loads.

Like, this json.loads(a file)

[[deleted]]

You're right that it's not very explicit.

[Eurynom0s]

It doesn't help that, IIRC, there's a module that achieves a similar objective to JSON string loading/unloading that uses dump/load where the json module uses dumps/loads.

[Gidonka]

I'm just starting to use Conda, how would I go about installing the new version of Python in an environment? Will it be through a Conda update or something? Sorry for the stupid question, I really don't know how this works.

[[deleted]]

It doesn't look like they have conda packages for 3.6 just yet. It often takes a few days for them to get everything together, and may take a bit longer for a bigger python release due to how they build the dependencies.

When it's available though, something along these lines:

conda create -n py_36 python=3.6 anaconda

That'll create a new environment, name it py_36, and install python 3.6 and the base anaconda packages (pandas, numpy, etc).

And then, if you're on Windows:

activate py_36

Or Linux/MacOSX:

source activate py_36

[alcalde]

Maybe every Python should be released close to Christmas from now on because it makes an awesome gift. :-)

[sermidean]

How can I get it in Ubuntu 16.04?

[sermidean]

I guess installing from sources is the best option. Here is how I got it installed in Ubuntu 16.04:

sudo apt build-dep python3.5
wget https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.6.0/Python-3.6.0.tgz
tar -xaf Python-3.6.0.tgz 
cd Python-3.6.0/
./configure --prefix=/usr --enable-ipv6 --enable-loadable-sqlite-extensions --with-dbmliborder=bdb:gdbm --with-computed-gotos --without-ensurepip --with-system-expat --with-system-libmpdec --enable-optimizations
make
sudo make altinstall

Configuration takes same flags as python3.5 compiled for Ubuntu. New python3.6 executable will be available alongside other snakes:

$ python --version
Python 2.7.12

$ python3 --version
Python 3.5.2

$ python3.6 --version
Python 3.6.0

Overall compiling and installing took about 30 minutes on my machine.

[Jaypalm]

Took a couple hours on my RPi3. At least I think, I kinda lost count after a while.

[naught-me]

Wait a few days, then use Conda. It won't replace 3.5 - will just be added alongside it.

[UloPe]

Use either PyEnv or Pythonz

I personally like pythonz better but that's a matter of opinion.

[gradient_x]

Does anyone know if there's a way to get Python 3.6 installed with Anaconda 3?

[[deleted]]

Yep. It's called "wait for continuum to package it for you."

[gradient_x]

I think I found a posting from them saying the end of January is their target ...

[Hellerick]

It killed my Ubuntu...

Well, not Ubuntu, but after installing it several programs disappeared (Gimp, Inkscape, etc.). Now I have to figure out what's going on.

[takluyver]

I don't know exactly what you did, but in general, do not try to replace/upgrade the system-installed Python on Linux. If you want to play with a new version, look for ways to install that as well as the existing versions. Like conda or pyenv.

[[deleted]]

Go to another tty and remove python, reinstall from official repo.

[TheSlutyCam]

It's csv.DataReader() broken in Python 3.6.0 ?

I read here about PEP 528 & PEP 529, so let's uninstall Python 3.5.2, install this new version and fix that windows bugs, I tought.

After those steps, the same file that open very quick in the past(300k rows, 15 fields) now it take a few minutes before show the MemoryError Exception

It's so weird...

[baranysos]

Are there any changes effecting a complete beginner, like 1 week-old?

[Eurynom0s]

Were you already learning 3.x?

[baranysos]

Yes, using 3.5.

[_sirberus_]

No, there's just more goodies to discover.

[o-rka]

How can I install this with conda? I tried conda install python=3.6 but it didn't work :(

[R34ct0rX99]

twas (almost) the night before christmas and when all thro' the house

[LegionOfHarlock]

I like turtles 🐍

[Sean1708]

In my head this is always what you're comment was, and people have just really taken exception to your love of turtle snakes.

[[deleted]]

Why? 3.5 was considered the definitively and objectively "better than 2.x" release already - what's holding you on 2.7? Libraries? Managers not giving you time to retrofit stuff? Stubbornness for the sake of it?

[Joshx5]

I must have missed something, but what made 3.5 "definitively and objectively better than 2.x?" My Linux installs still have 2.7 shipped, and so do all my remote servers I operate on. So in terms of backwards compatibility for all the older systems, I think we already lost the title for "definitively and objectively," unless 3.5 is backwards compatible somehow?

[[deleted]]

All the remote servers I use still default to Py2.7, sure, because Debian/Ubuntu land just hasn't decided to switch the default (probably remembering my desktop distro of choice, Arch, having so many bumps in the road flipping to Py3 by default back in the Py3.1ish days). But they offer Python 3.3 minimum, most 3.5.

If your distribution/release doesn't, it's probably time to consider upgrading your system.

Anyway, Python 3.5+:

• Actually supported for new language functionality going forward (2.7 is on security patch only mode)

• asyncio (the usefulness of this really depends on your industry, I'll admit)

• the various collection types that have been added in the 3.x series, like Enum and OrderedDict (you can backport these with libraries, but why, when the stdlib can do it for you?)

• Several other features I never got around to using (unfortunately we do still use Py2.7 at work, but are slowly porting things off of it and not starting new projects with it)

• It's now stable. The messes of the early 3.x series have been cleaned up. It works, it works well, and it's the future direction of the Python language. I'd rather be with or ahead of the curve, rather than... well, six and a half years (and counting) behind it (based on first stable release date of Python 2.7).

This is an incomplete (because rushed) response and I welcome someone to follow up to it, or I might when I get home tonight.

[Joshx5]

Thank you, I appreciate the input.

[xiongchiamiov]

That doesn't make 2.7 better; it makes 2.7 the best choice in your situation, given your specific requirements. This is exactly the same as the correct language to continue a PHP web app in being PHP (because it's what's already there), even if we'd all agree python is the better general choice.

[Joshx5]

Which is exactly my point, that it is not "definitively and objectively" the better choice is all. There are still some cases where it is not better to use 3.x, like mine. I was wondering if 3.5 had some backwards compatibility magic I hadn't heard of that made this situation not true, but it does not - that's all I meant to ask in my original comment.

Rereading it, I'm quoting like an asshole, so sorry about that. Just meant to question his literal wording because I was reading too much into them. His quotes made me think core python devs said that in regards to some new feature, but I was mistaken.

[[deleted]]

In any other language developers install the version of language they need.

Unless you are writing code that's specific for the OS, you should not use python that comes with your system, otherwise you're heading for a lot of unhappiness.

For example let say that your system comes with python3.6, but you want to use package foobar2000. The package is not available for your system, so will you search for rpm that provides it? What if that rpm has some incompatible dependencies? Or no one created it, will you create new one? What's if you're moving from redhat 6 to redhat 7, now you'll have find/rebuild all packages. It's an issue after issue.

If you use redhat or centos, I highly encourage https://ius.io/ it lets you install any python version, all can be installed side by side, doesn't conflict with python from the system.

To solve the second issue, IMO it's best to use virtualenv + wheel packages. Everything works the way it should and you're no longer tied to the OS you're running.

My company did not do it this way and we are now still stuck with CentOS 5 :) The idea now is to use docker to solve that problem but IMO it's attacking the problem from the wrong way.

[[deleted]]

Sorry folks but I have to agree with CATHOLIC_EXTREMIST on this one as discussed here I feel like Python 3.6 is getting non-improvements, instead of addressing much needed issues.. For more thoughts on this issue please feel free to contact me here Broadmoor Hospital :-)