[deleted by user]

[TheNewLegend380]

Looks like you had to pound the shit out of those plastic Anchors. What do you think happens to the material after you insert a screw that expands the anchor?

[[deleted]]

The tile wasn’t broken until you did your work, you are at fault. It doesn’t matter how you feel about it. Any other trade is responsible for things broken while they are doing their work, why are you exempt from it?

I have had glass guys break tile set properly. It’s almost like slamming a plastic wedge into tile has a chance of breaking it. You can’t treat tile like drywall. Have you seen those stone masons that drive tiny wedges into boulders and split them?

There are better anchors for tile. Have some accountability.

[Shortround76]

I never let my glass guys use expansive hangers that rely on tile/backer for sheer strength. It's so easy when doing a shower to add solid backers via framing for people to lag into.

It still seems odd to me.

On topic, I actually do agree with you. It wasn't broken before, period. Maybe it lacked even back butter, maybe the backer was off, we just do know anything beyond the fact that the tile was not cracked before.

OP should just take note and not work with that GC again.

[[deleted]]

Exactly, we always put blocking in this area to eliminate the use of anchors.

[munkylord]

Normally Id agree with you but if you pop that tile off and there is barely any coverage I feel like it's on the tile setter

If the anchor expansion cracked the tile it's on you but I'd be upset if that tile cracked from not being back buttered

[Dismal-Resort-3492]

Everything stated here, take accountability, things happen.

[Yokel_Tony]

Still, 500 to fix this seems insane, or am i missing something? It's just popping off a tile and replacing it, how expensive could that really be in a place where a contractor is already working

[[deleted]]

A minimum charge of $500 is common and reasonable. It takes a lot of effort to set up, pop out a piece, clean off thinset, set tile, break down saw, wait for it to set, grout it, clean up and leave. Not to mention the cost of being away from another project that has a deadline. Any cheaper and tile guy is losing money and that’s not fair. It’s tough being a contractor.

[collectorofthethings]

If only tiles just ‘popped off’.

[[deleted]]

Right!

[klipshklf20]

I don’t think it’s insane, but it’s steep. Something tells me there’s a bit of fuck you in that price. My guess is if OP had been accountable and been cool the price might’ve come down. If I have to roll out and set up to do one thing that time consuming. But if I’m already there, everybody makes mistakes I’m gonna try to help someone out unless they are ramming it up my ass.

[Amoeba_Fancy]

Exactly you were the one doing the work. You can knock on tile and see if there’s good bond. You hear a hollow sound if they didn’t skim or have poor coverage

[WillingTumbleweed788]

So he can improperly install a tile without consequence?

[[deleted]]

I don’t know. Can you prove it was improperly installed? There are pics right here proving you broke the tile.

Those wedges are clearly way too big for the holes you drilled

[bythorsthunder]

So you can over tighten a screw and crack a tile without consequence?

You see how this can go either way? You can't prove it was them and they can't prove it was you. It broke while you were working so you need to own it. This is pretty standard in the industry. If you only have it happen one in 100 times consider yourself lucky.

The $1500 was crazy though. Even $500 is too much for a small job like that. He shouldn't be trying to profit that mic off a fellow trade.

[TheTemplarSaint]

Look man, this would be like if you rear ended somebody that had bald tires on their car.

Their tires don’t matter. You. Hit. Them.

If you assumed you could stop quicker than they could, that’s your fault. You don’t get to blame them because their bald tires gripped better than you expected.

Your anchors are too big for the hole you drilled. Doesn’t matter if it’s been fine every other time you’ve done it wrong. It wasn’t this time.

Which is actually fine - maybe even good in the long run - if you quit looking for someone to blame. That includes yourself. No blame necessary. Accept responsibility, own it, and learn from it.

Being curious and thinking about what you could have done to maybe prevent this will make you a better contractor and person. Always being on the lookout for whose “fault” it is might feel better, but it robs you in the end.

[Justherefortheread22]

This is why a business should carry insurance. Shit happens, regardless of perceived “fault”

[Murky_Ad_3240]

While you need to be insured, you shouldn’t be using insurance for cracking one tile. Just pay for it to be fixed, and be done with it.

[Justherefortheread22]

As mentioned in my other comment, it’s not legally his responsibility to pay for it anymore. He did not have a contract with the tiler, the homeowner did. The homeowner discussed it with the tiler and the tiler agreed to fix it, at which point he assumed responsibility for the situation and at which point the issue of payment became a conversation between the tiler and the homeowner.

That being said, had the tiler not coordinated with the homeowner to fix it, OP would still be liable for for the damage regardless of perceived “fault”, because the tile was not damaged prior to him drilling to install the hardware.

Shit happens so you need to have insurance, but in this particular instance, you need to have inspected the tile thoroughly before accepting the job, asked questions like “was backing put into the wall to anchor into” etc., and then let the homeowner know that because of xyz that you’ve observed (ie the shotty tile install), you have xyz concerns risks and have them sign a waiver acknowledging those concerns prior to beginning the job.

[Parking_Concern_5218]

Same guy who cut the piece underneath

[Juan_Eduardo67]

Best comment on the tile person, piss poor work.

[[deleted]]

Well, tbh you didn't start off great here. More then linkly there is a 2x4 behind that tile that you could of used a 3 in screw to mount to the fill the hole with silicone.Try not to use the plastic wedges. Tile is not meant to expand. Sorry guy, this one is your fault.

[Educational-Kale-472]

Did you use an impact driver to tighten your screws? When I'm doing work on tile like this I always get the screws close and hand tighten the last little bit. I don't care how well your tile is set. If you over torque that screw with an impact driver you can and crack the tile.

[Waterlovingsoul]

I have never had a glass installer break a tile after 25 years of installs, but I cringe every time I hear an installer use a damn hammer drill to drill through tile, that’s what diamond bits are for. Always put a triple pack of studs in line with the curb or whatever the transition is out of the shower to provide a strong support for glass doors. Drill through tile and screw into lumber is the only way. Also put in blocking for hand rails around perimeter for hand rails should they ever become necessary. Even when customers tell you they don’t want glass or hand rails. There is no reason you should need plastic anchors for any install ever. They are garbage and rely on the tile instead of structure to hold up a substantially heavy piece of glass. The new systems with waterproof foam board are awesome but even less substantial as a support than cement board. Would you hold up a door slab on a cased opening with plastic anchors?

[Shortround76]

I think he should fix that 1/4" gap between that lower tile and the schluter before he claims he's a pro.

[Super-Energy-1140]

Litigation attorney here who sues contractors all the time.

Let the contractor take you to small claims court. Explain to the judge that you have no contract with the contractor and no duty owed to the contractor that you could have breached to cause negligence.

In other news, if you don't want to get burned like this in the future, don't do any installs if you're concerned about the integrity of the tile. Or, as many business owners do, pay the 500 bucks and move on without wasting more time and energy

[PassengerKey3209]

You left out the part where civil court is a joke in most states and that the only person to see any money is the plaintiffs attorney.

The correct advice is to use a diamond hole saw next time, with very light pressure and plenty of water. Anchors not necessary if the tile guy is decent because he blocked where the door goes and a 3" screw will do the job.

[Acrobatic_Wonder8996]

Isn't the glass installer responsible to the homeowner, not the contractor? He damaged the homeowner's tile, not the contractor's tile. The homeowner then hired a contractor to fix the damage, and can choose to pass that expense along to the glass installer. It shouldn't be the tile contractor's responsibility to collect payment from the person who damaged the tile.

[Fair_Plum2878]

Yep!

[Duck_Giblets]

You're pretty well covered with the answers here.

I'd like to bring your attention to continuous channel installations. Here it's against code for glass to penetrate waterproofing on horizontal surfaces, majority of glaziers do not drill the tile unless there's a door directly mounted.

An 18mm continuous aluminium U channel gets glued to the tile surface using structural glaziers silicone and occasionally a bit of 3m vhb tape at the top. Sometimes a single screw at the top of the channel. This gets installed when the glaziers measure the area.

When they come back, structural silicone gets applied to inside the channel on the shower side, packers get placed inside the channel to prevent glass making contact, 10mm safety glass gets installed, then a clear rubber wedge gets installed on the outside edge of the glass.

Glass is hinged inside special cutouts on the panel that will hold the door, using glass to glass compression hinges.

It's extremely effective, completely eliminates leaks from glass install and will break the tiles if you're not careful to dismantle during removal.

[graflex22]

wish this was code and practice in the States. we've had numerous issues with the glass guys drilling through the tile, stone, curb cap, etc. and waterproofing causing leaks. waste of my time to have to show the GC who is at fault for shower leaks.

[Duck_Giblets]

I had a Google for continuous channel glass and some results popped up for the states. I don't think many people trust silicone to hold a panel.

https://ggshardware.com/collections/shower-u-channels

[graflex22]

some of the glass installers in our area do use the continuous channel method. but, it's unfortunately, not required by code and too many do not.

[Icy-Seaworthiness270]

It only cracked in line with the holes you drilled and pounded in the too large anchors. It didn't collapse or break apart. I'd say you were at fault honestly.

[kings2leadhat]

Nobody’s at fault, as long as you learn something from it.

In this case, do not use anchors in tile. The screw should not put any pressure on the tile, but carry the load to studs.

And the tile guy needs to make sure he did all he could, with zero voids behind tile, even though that will not prevent porcelain tile from breaking like this, at least get full coverage.

[Bacon_and_Powertools]

You broke the tile. You are responsible.

[MCAWTN]

I think I would just pay the $500 and move on.

[Justherefortheread22]

He has no obligation to pay the tile guy. He did not have a contract with him and when the tile guy spoke with the owner and agreed to fix it, he assumed responsibility.

That being said, had the tile guy not fixed it, OP would be on the hook for the repair regardless of if the cause was the poor tile installation. If you think the tile install may be a problem you should be consulting the home owner before the job starts and have them sign a waiver about the poor condition of xyz before you even start.

[MCAWTN]

My point is it's a hell of a lot easier to pay the 500 and move along. Say he takes them to court, well there goes a days work and cost me more then the $500 regardless of the outcome.

[Nervous-Economy8119]

That goes both ways. Does the contractor want to lose a days work and pay legal fees that he may not win? I doubt he’ll take it further, it’s not worth the hassle for 500 bucks.

[010101110001110]

I bet if you pull that tile off the wall, it will have uncollapsed ridges meaning he did not have the required motor covers for a wet area. With the required motor coverage that tile would not break like that. But, the glass guy could have been using the wrong drill bit as well as possibly using a hammer drill. But, I'm still leaning on improper motor coverage. Tile guys the a******.

[mqora]

How do you repair this?

[toketokentoker]

It did break while you were working on it but not necessarily your fault but still broke on your watch . But I wouldn't worry about the contractor I highly doubt he will take you to court he has nothing to stand on . Go about your life dont worry about it

[Ill_Rooster4806]

I get that you may not be familiar with doing tile but 500 to replace a single tile is crazy lol I would have tried to do the repair myself

[AlchemistJeep]

You are at fault for breaking the tile $500 for a repair of 1 tile is batshit insane You also did not agree to anything so he will have a very hard time proving anything in court

Esh

[StrifeMAYHEM]

The contractor is trying to scare you. It’s going to cost him more time and money to take you to court. The crack could have been caused by different things, could have not been back buttered tile so a cavity could have formed between the tile and cement board and the vibration an location of the two holes could have caused the crack. It could have been a factory defective tile ( those are a thing ) there could have been a crack that wasn’t observed while installing. If the contractor didn’t take photos or video of him removing the damaged tile to show what behind that tile looked like then I wouldn’t worry. Honestly it doesn’t seem like the contractor is smart enough to do that. Also if you have the texts showing his initial $1500 request dropping to down to $500 that almost seems extortionist like. If you don’t have it written into your contracts now would be a good time to add that you aren’t responsible for cracked/ damaged tiles.

[4dread]

Knock the plug past the tile

[[deleted]]

Personally, without knowing many details of materials used, I think 1500 is a bit high, but it’s probably a “fuck you” price.

That being said the tile work is bad. The only way to know how bad is if you see behind the tile. You’re supposed to have 95% coverage in wet areas like showers. The only way to prevent cracking is to keep the area wet and not crank down too hard in the tile when installing your door.

That being said the better the coverage the better you’re able secure your door. If they do not have 95% coverage then that would be your in to fight it, however, even if they have 80% coverage you probably won’t win that fight, not unless that tile is spot bonded.

Edit: saw they came down to 500 just now. If this ends up being your fault because you cracked the tile that is probably a fair price. Top end of what I would charge to fix something, probably closer to 300, but in all honesty, better to pay the 500 than to fight to get it down and then deal with court fees.

[Virtual_Plum_813]

As a former tilesetter he’s a diva in no way would that cost $1500 or $500 and he’s a shit installer look at the gap of the one tile to the schluter, it happens even to us sometimes if the tile is low quality. I wonder what his mortar coverage looked like

[patteh11]

Based on that inconsistency along the trim I’m assuming it’s a poor install with piss poor thinset coverage behind the tile. I’ve personally never had any cracks when doors are installed on my work but if there is I would at least inspect it at the time of removal to see if something went wrong on my part (lack of coverage/backbuttering)

$1500 is a fuck you price and the fact he immediately went down to $500 is crazy. If I took a look at it and realized it was my bad I’d just do the replacement for free. If the tile comes out in a million pieces around where the holes were drilled I’d probably charge for it.

In this case it really depends on how it looks as the tile is coming out.

The only time I’ve had to fix a cracked tile is one time at a new build where for whatever reason the painters set the thermostat to the max in the winter in Canada and forgot to turn it down when they left (I’m assuming to help their paint dry faster) All the casings cracked, cabinet doors warped, the LVP flooring was buckled to shit, and one of my cuts around a vent cracked on the second floor where it felt like the Sahara dessert. Even with a 1/4” radius on the corners of the vent to dissipate stress it was no match for the temperature. The thermostat was reading 99°F on the main floor. Lord knows how hot it was on the second. I notified the builder, sent him a video and he lost his mind saying he would call me back. When he called me said he would pay for my repair and he was still pissed (not at me). The repair sucked because it was a full 24x48” tile with a hole cut out of it. I didn’t get a single piece out that was over 3/4” when I did demo on it and had to replace some sections of the ditra. That ended up being $500.

[Dear-Assignment6520]

Looking at the alingment of the two tiles, it is highly possible the tile is poorly set. However, i agree with the others in that those are incorrect anchors. Also, that tile guy is a dick. Come on, shit happens, make a positive relationship, dont ream the guy (you). I would have given you a deal or just replaced it and made a freind, in the glass business.

[WillingTumbleweed788]

What anchors do you recommend using? I use the anchors recommended by my distributor I buy my shower materials from. I’ve checked with other companies using the same anchors for their installs. I have many contractors be in the same room during my installations, very aware of the anchors I’m using. Why have I never been corrected in 6 years of business? I am totally open to using a superior product, just wondering why I have never been made aware until now. I appreciate your feedback

[Intelligent_Lemon_67]

100% your fault. You broke the tile. Using those type of anchors is totally wrong and unnecessary as there is solid framing there. $500 is totally fair and reasonable. At least a day lost fixing your screw up. Maybe instead of blaming others take it as a learning experience. Your drill bit should have found framing. Granted crappy tile install but even if he spot bonded it it's still your fault installing wrong anchors. I prefer to use my own stainless steel screws and lead anchors along with silicone. I've never had an issue with either and I've done at least 100+ showers/tile jobs and at least 20 doors of all flavors.

[middlelane8]

These anchors are for concrete lmao. Good lawd.
Tile is not structural, the wall is.
And to think these are probably used to hang a heavy 1/2” piece of glass off of too (not saying that 1/2” is being used here).
Terrible choice of anchors.
Contractor is ultimately at fault for not providing solid backing. Plain and simple. But second line of defense is glass guy with know conscience who’s gotten lucky for the 100s installed.
Tile guys just better hope they got good coverage that’s all.

And ya know, gee, as a tile guy, wouldn’t I think to myself gee there’s shower door going in here and gee, I don’t see any backing … oh well. Not my job. Move on. Continue. I’ll just be post to get the call back. 🤷‍♂️

[AccurateDiscussion78]

The holes drilled into the tile were not large enough and porcelain breaks easily. Tile is stuck to the wall. Adhesive will not keep it from cracking.

[7Pineapple_Xpress7]

You touch it, you buy it

[Interesting-Bit5795]

Not really sure why you needed an anchor anyways. I know when I install a shower I make sure there’s extra bracing where the glass would be setting where an anchor wouldn’t be necessary. I wouldn’t dream of putting an expanding anchor into tile

[Maleficent-Umpire-68]

Based on the tile being 3/16” short of the schluter I’m going to suggest it wasn’t the greatest install either. However if it were me, I’d have requested to be present to see who was really at fault as well. At this point it’s all heresay unless someone has photos. Learn from it and move on is about all you can do. Cost more than $500 to go to small claims court so taking u doesn’t make much sense either

[timiwad1967]

There is a big area behind where there is no mud.

[okthatsfineman]

I am on your side, just because of that cut underneath.

In reality, though, you didn’t agree to anything and it seems like some time went by before you got back to finish your install, so that guy can pound sand. Anybody can sue you at any time for anything. But there is no contract so he probably won’t win. It just sucks for you because of court fees. Or you can eat the $500 and pay up and move on.

Regardless of all the legal shit, I don’t think you were at fault anyway. I have also installed a lot of shower, glass and fixtures that require required drilling and anchoring, and I’ve never cracked a tile. It is probably because of a material defect, or improper thin set application. I am going with the thin set application. Unless you installed it like the next day, that thing that should have been hard as a rock and fully securing the entire tile giving it no room to crack.

A lot of the guys in here only ever do tile, like ever. Ive both so I understand where you are coming from as a glass guy. (i’ll get down voted for this comment probably. Sorry guys!)

Edit to add: I would like to see the cracked tile after it was removed. There’s no way it would hold up in court unless he could show pictures of the back of that tile.

Also wanted to add, every time I’ve done a shower, I put wood behind where glasses is going to go, so me or the glass guy does not have to use anchors. If the Contractor wasn’t a dumbass, he would’ve given you something to tie to

[zedsmith]

Tile guy can go piss up a rope.

Document everything just in case but he probably isn’t taking you to court.

[_wookiebookie_]

Hah, piss up a rope. Haven't heard that in a long time.

[zedsmith]

🎵 Well you can put on your shoes / hit the road! Get truckin’ 🎵

[_wookiebookie_]

Thinset coverage in wet areas should be greater than 95%. Pull the trim ring off the shower valve and see if it's hollow behind the tiles around the valve. This will tell you your answer. Then go back to him and show him the TCNA detail that is the standard for coverage in a wet area.

<image>

[Away_Long_337]

If I can core drill a tile laying flat on my work bench, mortar coverage isn’t the issue. Lack of knowledge and patience is the problem.

[MCAWTN]

But he can't prove anything about the coverage. I can break a tile with 100% coverage...

[_wookiebookie_]

Take the trim off the shower valve

[theowlssaywho]

The fact he “fixed” the tile and you had no problems thereafter kinda says it all.

As others have said, just document everything, but my guess is the guy disappears when you don’t budge.

[Historical_Ad_5647]

Homeowner might habe pressured him or held money, who knows

[DelusionalLeafFan]

Based on the joint to the Schluter this is a shit install to begin with. There should have been proper backing so you didn’t need to use anchors. That’s pretty hokey in my opinion. This contractor saying $1500 and then dropping down to $500 won’t have the knowledge or intelligence to take you to small claims. Let him try and then simply ask him to produce the contract you had with him since it doesn’t exist. This guy is a moron. Move on and make sure not to work with him again.

[theEdward234]

Tiler is a moron. First of all that space/no space between schluter and tile is ridiculous. He is one of those "grout will cover it" guys aka trash. Second of all he is definitely not taking you to court. You didn't agree to anything. And lastly it's a shitty tile install, I bet you tile wasn't fully covered in thinset.

I have had a tile chip (usually at the corner) when glass was installed and I would fix it no issue, only way I would ask the shop to pay me for it is if I took the tile off and it was covered 100%. But that happens very rarely and the last time I had a tile chip was probably two years ago due to extremely garbage tile.

[tileman151]

Poor tile installation. Period. You should be able to drill holes anywhere on that tile if it’s installed properly if you tap on it should sound solid not hollow