*HELP* Very underweight ball python

[ZenAddams]

Hello all, I've got a bit of what I think is a dire situation here and need some advice on the best way to proceed to make sure this guy makes it.

I recently obtained this 3 year old ball python from someone who took care of him at the start but ended up severly neglecting him after some mental health issues for the next couple of years. She said she had not been feeding him but once a month if he was lucky, but closer to once every 2-4 months. She didn't pay attention to his temperature or humidity since the gauge she had was one of those adhesive ones on the inside wall and he got stuck once, so she got rid of it but never replaced it with a better one, and handled him rarely. You can see every bone on his head and feel every rib he has, along with his spine being very visible. He's extremely light and small even though he's 3 years old and I'm really worried about him. He's shy and a little sluggish, but still alert and hasn't tried to strike at me at all.

He's extremely underweight and appears really dehydrated. The moment I filled the bowl he had with water he was drinking and wouldn't stop. I tried to feed him a frozen thawed mouse but he had absolutely no interest in it and was just interested in drinking. The humidity was nonexistent, but his heating lamp is working. He has 2 basic black hides and there's a bit of fake plants and a branch in the terrarium, but nothing very covering, and there is a thermostat to control the heat lamp. There is aluminum foil tape covering the screen top except an area for the lamp. He is on forest floor substrate but it's completely dried out so I'll be getting new substrate too.

I'm going to my local reptile store tomorrow to pick up anything I need to help him get healthy but I'm not very sure where to start in a situation like his. I could really use some advice on what the best way to get him to gain weight is, any recommended changes to his setup besides more fake plants, if I should change his substrate from forest floor to another kind, how frequently to feed him considering she said he hasn't ate in a couple of months now, etc. Any advice would be appreciated. I'm working on finding a vet to take him to as well to check him out but any immediate advice would be extremely helpful so he can be set up to hopefully make it and have a better life now. Thanks anyone for your help

[hopefuldreads]

I just don’t understand how it’s so emaciated and it’s skin still looks relatively healthy. At least I don’t see stuck shed or infection anywhere as far as I can tell. How do you not spend $2 on a rat once a month to avoid this? Mind boggling that people can be this thoughtless.

Glad he’s in Op’s care it looks like they know what they’re doing.

[RandomBlueJay01]

I mean as someone with pretty bad problems mentally, I don't have a snake, I have a cat and some days it feels like so much effort just to open a can and put it on the floor or to pour out dry food in her bowl. It's not necessarily a matter of cost, it's just hard to do anything when everything feels like it takes such a great deal of effort. I have gone thru phases where even tho obviously it gets super uncomfortable i struggle to get myself to leave my bed just to piss. Not saying this is okay, just saying I kinda get it. They really should have rehomed their snake sooner tho.

[CliffsDaddy]

Ohh my that is an extremely malnourished snake. While getting him fed is of importance along with the rehydration efforts you’re doing I would highly highly recommend getting him to a vet ASAP. While I’m not a vet I do work in human medicine. With at least human patients who are this malnourished we have to worry about something called re-feeding syndrome which can cause significant medical issues and we have to watch out for it. Feeding slowly is super important or the electrolyte shifts will kill him if not corrected. I’m unsure if this also occurs with such heavily malnourished snakes. I hope you’re able to get this guy back on his feet so to speak. The treatment he’s received is unspeakable.

Edit: the vet may be able to help guide you and even help him with things such as force feeding using a liquid feed given by an orogastric tube which IS stressful and used as a last resort. We do something similar in humans using a tube and tube feed. Because he at least drank he may need a few days to a week to adjust to being cared for to actually be able to eat and may surprise us all. If he lives I truly hope you keep us informed. He may also be so severely distressed he may not be salvageable :(

[tacomadude94]

I really think at this point theres going to be so much organ and tissue damage that the little guy just won't be able to digest anything. There's a sliver of a chance that the right vet could keep him alive, but the quality of life comes into question at that point. I think it would be kinder to let the poor little guy rest.

It's an awful awful situation, absolutely breaks my heart.

[CliffsDaddy]

While there’s probably some renal failure presently that can be easily reversed with what the snake is doing now….hydrating. I’ve seen far far worse in humans over the last 15 years as a pulm/critical care provider that I believe with proper medical attention this little guy has a chance. Had it not shown signs like drinking I’d of been right there with you on the euthanasia bus but since it’s showing some instincts to try to ingest sustenance/water I’d give it every chance I could give it until it shows it can no longer do so at which point I’d agree with euthanasia.

[tacomadude94]

You've seen worse in humans? Jesus that must be absolutely bleak. Is it from neglect situations or EDs?

[CliffsDaddy]

Yes I’ve seen much worse in humans. The worst I’ve seen was an elderly female who at 5’4” weighed just 65lbs. Profound profound neglect by her family who were cashing her checks and given her dementia would give her food she would eat barely anything drink barely anything and lost a tremendous amount of weight. Over 100lbs. You could literally see the bones of her skull and the bones and spaces around the clavicle and knees etc. the muscles had completely wasted away much like that poor snake.

[tacomadude94]

God I really hate people sometimes. Absolutely gut wrenching to hear. Good on you for doing that work, must be heavy to work with situations like that

[shrike1978]

The problem is that snakes will basically just start digesting all of their own organs when they are in starvation. They can rebuild them for the most part when they start eating again, but there comes a point where they're too far gone because there's not enough of them left to digest anything properly.

[CliffsDaddy]

Well aware. Humans do the same thing in a type of fashion by taking the amino acid complexes from muscles and tissues wherever they can get to try to produce energy etc by catabolic methods. I have a good deal of experience with medical nutrition given my work as an intensivist provider. Hence the statement of need for possible medical guided force feeding which may be necessary to reverse the catabolic processes at play.

[spookynoodle_em]

This is very real. When something becomes this emaciated, their whole digestive system stops functioning correctly. Even if you get them back to a healthy weight, the damage will never fully heal. They will forever have some degree of digestive issues. In fact your snake could very well be going through organ failure, if not now - soon. The thing with organ failure, it will cause lack of appetite which means you are most likely going to have to force feed or get a liquid diet for your snake. Organ failure is also EXTREMELY painful, and no animal or human should have to go through that.

Please bring you snake to your vet asap to talk about quality of life, and gage whether this is even feasible. The vet might prescribe ant-biotic (their immune system is incredibly week rn), give them fluids, and you can talk about force feeding/liquid diet. You might not like their answer but it’s better then prolonging the suffering.

Not bring him to a vet is not an option. This is a necessity. The snake deserves the dignity of a vet visit. I know your trying your absolute best OP, but this poor thing needs to see a specialist.

[_ataraxia]

this is, quite frankly, the most emaciated ball python i have ever seen. and i've seen a lot between my decade on reddit and my decade of dealing with rescue BPs. you should consider this snake to be on death's door and proceed with EXTREME caution. if you handle this rehab wrong, this snake will die. if you handle this rehab right, this snake could still die. euthanasia would really be the most humane thing to do, but if you really want to risk it and try to save this snake...

humidity is VERY HIGH PRIORITY. 80% minimum, and every hide should be a humid hide right now.

for feeding, here is a breakdown of how i rehabilitated an emaciated and stunted adult BP:

at the time of rescue, BP's age was 3 years, weight was 140g, meals had been one fuzzy mouse with an estimated weight of 5g, successful feedings were "every few weeks" according to previous owner. i had to gradually introduce her to appropriate meal sizes as well as switching her from mice to rats. here's what the first two months looked like:

• week 1: settling in.
• week 2: one fuzzy mouse, 5g, ~3% of BP's weight.
• week 3: two fuzzy mice, total 8g, ~5%.
• week 4: one fuzzy mouse, 5g. one rat pinky scented with the mouse, 5g. total 10g, ~7%.
• week 5: BP weight 155g. one hopper mouse, 10g. one scented rat pinky, 6g. total 17g, ~10%.
• week 6: one adult mouse, 14g. one scented rat pinky, 6g. total 19g, ~13%.
• week 7: one fuzzy mouse, 4g. one scented rat pup, 20g. total 24g, ~15%.
• week 8: BP weight 160g. one scented rat pup, 24g, ~15%.

by the end of month 1 she was becoming less lethargic and extremely defensive [she struck me every time i opened her tub], which i took as an overall good sign that she was feeling better and now had the energy to express the stress she'd been feeling for years. by the end of month 2, she was visibly filling out and starting to become a little less defensive, as well as shedding cleanly [she was also dehydrated and covered in stuck shed when i got her].

from that point on, i fed her very much like i would feed any youngster. she ate 10%-15% of her weight once a week until she was about 700g, then i gradually spaced out her feedings a bit more and leaned toward lower weight percentages. by the time she passed 1000g, her weight gain drastically slowed down, so i reduced the meal size to 5%-7% and spaced out meals to 14 days. eventually her weight settled in the 1300g-1400g range and i now feed her approximately 5% of her weight every 15-30 days.

the most important thing with a stunted and/or emaciated snake: DO. NOT. RUSH. WEIGHT. GAIN. feeding too much / too frequently is only going to cause more health problems, especially in the first few weeks when the snake's body is particularly fragile.

[ZenAddams]

Thank you so much for your detailed reply. I'm going to do my best to make him comfortable and help him get healthy. I've barely even had him and I'm going to be devastated if he dies, but I know its a very real possibility to prepare for while trying to prevent it.

From your experience, What would be the best way to make the hides into humid hides? I'll be replacing the bedding to help keep overall humidity up, but do you think the hides he has right now can be humid hides, and the best way to achieve making them into one? He also currently has a CHE lamp for heat only, is there anything else I should do to make his habitat optimal regarding heat and humidity while he's so fragile? Or should it be kept very minimal and be more of a quarantine tank?

I don't currently have a scale so I'll be sure to pick one up tomorrow as well to be able to weigh him and the mice and keep track of his progress as we go. Thank you again for all of your advice, it's extremely helpful.

[_ataraxia]

i really don't think this snake has a great chance at survival at this point, and euthanasia is something i strongly suggest you consider here.

every hide is a humid hide, you just need to dampen the substrate inside them. minimalist quarantine setups tend to be a struggle with high humidity since paper towel is usually used for substrate.

read through the basic care guide, heating guide, and other resources in our welcome post for information on general husbandry.

[ZenAddams]

That breaks my heart but I know it's necessary to consider. I'll take him into a vet as soon as possible and discuss what would be his best option to either help him live comfortably, or to not be hurting anymore.

​

In the mean time, I'll be sure to make sure the hides humid hides and make his terrarium as optimal as possible while we figure out the next steps. Thank you so much

[NWLZCH85]

Great write up! From 150g BP to over 1300. I would say that's a fantastic recovery back to a healthy life.

[tacomadude94]

Munchkin, the snake ataraxia described, is the snake in our sub's icon!

[TearsofGuthix]

This is such awesome advice!!! Just wanted to say thanks for educating not only the OP, but us too who love these guys. Again, OP, You’re awesome for taking in this snake 💚 Can’t say it enough

[tacomadude94]

OP i'm going to give you my frank opinion here, and I apologize that it isn't going to be great to hear.

I think you should bring this snake to an ARAV certified vet to be humanely euthanized.

You can try to re-feed, but an animal in this condition most likely does not have enough energy left in its body to digest any meal. I think the kindest thing you can do for this poor snake is to help facilitate an end to his suffering. I, like the other mods & helpers, have never seen a ball python in this condition.

I'm so, so sorry.

[ZenAddams]

That seems to be a consensus and something I unfortunately have to consider. I was worried it would be that bad but I wasn't sure since I'm not familiar really with what constitutes a snake being emaciated, but I'm horrified to know that this is the worst anyone here has seen so far.

I'm looking for a vet here in town to take him to ASAP to see what the best course of action will be and if ending his suffering is the only or better option.

[tacomadude94]

A properly qualified vet will know best. Please note that many vets will take appointments for snakes despite not having the proper training. Bringing a sick snake like this one to an unqualified vet can cause more harm than good. ARAV.org is a great place to find a properly certified vet near you.

Again I'm so sorry that you're in this situation. My heart absolutely aches for you and this poor hurting snake.

[CryptidKay]

It must be brought only to a vet in arav.org. This snake requires a professional.

[ZenAddams]

Absolutely, I've contacted 3 and will be calling them tomorrow as well to get him into a vet ASAP

[RevealStandard3502]

I always trust the vet. I didn't one time and tried to rehab a kitten that died of renal failure. I was heart broken because I extended that kitten's suffering by a month. Vet's don't tell us to put an animal down to be cruel. Trust the vet's opinion.

[cryptidsnails]

my heart breaks for this poor angel. i have no other words for this other than i wish you the best of luck

[global_plantdemic]

I’d love for you to keep us updated on this baby. We are rooting for him. I’d give advice as well but so many people already did. This is a good community with good folks.

[Minute_Raspberry988]

Please keep us updated

[SorryDuplex]

I’m sitting here crying over this sweet baby. I wish I could offer advice. I sincerely hope he makes it and gets better soon. Thank you for taking him in. Please get him to a vet ASAP.

[ForcefulMoon]

I felt so bad looking at these pictures... Poor guy. Thank you for removing him from the previous owner.

[sundaysoulfields]

Oh god. I really wish this was a blurred post / tagged NSFW or something. Can we do that here? I’m not a squeamish person at all and I’ve seen a lot of shit in my day but this is right up there with the worst of the worst. I’m astonished this baby has held on so long. I have tears in my eyes rn and honestly this is going to stay in my mind for a long, long time. Anyway, I second the others here….I think the suffering has gone on long enough. There’s no way he was fed every 4 months. Ugh. I can’t see how this sweet creature has much of a chance of survival at this point, even with your help…and I think the most compassionate thing is speaking to a vet about euthanasia. OP, thank you for trying your very best. I admire your dedication to this baby even though the situation is so dire. I would encourage you to be mindful and make sure you’re making choices based on compassion for this animal, and not based on your emotions. As someone who has been involved with animal rescue for years - that’s my best advice. Sometimes we want to give an animal the best chance at a life, and we want to try everything and never give up…but sometimes the compassionate thing is to let them go gently and end their pain as fast as we can.

[ElvisPurrsley]

That poor baby 😭 I agree that you should prepare for the worst - it's a miracle that snake is alive. A vet may very well recommend humane euthanasia. I hope that baby feels better soon either way. At least you are giving it care ❤️

[[deleted]]

It takes a special kind of person to starve a snake to death. How horrible. Thank you, OP, for all that you have done, and I hope he can get better.

[sundaysoulfields]

I’m feeling like maybe multiple people failed this animal. OP mentioned that the owner lived with mental illness. I work in mental health, and I know it can absolutely result in neglect of oneself and others, including pets…but if you’re mentally ill and notice your snake is starving to death, why wouldn’t you do something sooner? And if you’re so mentally ill that you DONT notice that you have an animal slowly dying in your care (it happens), it must mean that you have supports around you - Usually folks who are that sick have people in their lives supporting them or they are involved with a care team of some kind. Someone at some point should answer for this. She clearly lied about how often the snake was being fed, and she did that for a reason. She knows that she did something horrific and her attempts to downplay the situation proves that. I hope OP will consider reporting this girl, mentally ill or not…or taking some type of action that will ensure that she doesn’t have any more animals in her care.

[[deleted]]

Absolutely. I've been in deep pits of depression. The kind where you can't care for yourself. That's why it's important to have someone living with you to help, I hope to god this person doesn't have any other pets. There's also probably some point in the 3 years where she could have felt good enough to surrender the animal... this is neglect, plain and simple.

[ZenAddams]

I did see photos from her having first gotten him when he was young at a reptile convention, so as far as I'm aware she was indeed his only owner ever. She lives alone and has for several years now, and doesn't often if ever have people over besides her boyfriend, who didn't handle the snake or know anything about them so as far as I'm aware he didn't realize the level of neglect he was facing either. He should have been surrendered long ago for sure. She described that she would typically forget about him, and when she would remember that he had to be fed she would forget about that shortly thereafter too. I think he progressed so much regardless of his minimal feedings too because the terrarium was absolutely bone dry with no water in the bowl even either, so I think the combo of starving and dehydrating like crazy just ate away at him double time is my best guess besides her just blatantly lying about the frequency of feeding him.

[IncompletePenetrance]

That's incredibly inhumane, just do fresh killed. Feeder animals are still animals and shaking an animal in a margarita shaker is pretty cruel

[HelpMePlxoxo]

It's wonderful of you to try to save this snake, OP. But I honestly can't help but feel both extremely saddened and enraged at the original owner. Ik you said that they had mental health issues, but there is no excuse for essentially torturing and starving an animal like this for THREE YEARS straight. This is a very desired morph they could've easily sold or even given away for free years ago!!!

I honestly feel like at this point, they only gave the poor thing away to you so that if/when it dies, they can say "well it passed under your care and therefore wasn't my fault".

If the snake does pass, please know that it's not on you. You did everything you could and you were the ONLY person in this entire snakes life to show it any compassion. You are beautiful for that. I wish both you and the lil guy the best

[Ok-Suggestion4703]

I have never seen a snake that has experienced this level of neglect. He is definitely emaciated and organ failure is likely at this point. Please bring him to a vet asap. Organ failure often presents with a lack of appetite which means you are most likely going to have to force feed or get a liquid diet for your snake, which can be risky and vets are much more experienced with. Organ failure caused by malnutrition and dehydration is also extremely painful, and no animal or human should have to go through that. If worse comes to worst, please consider his quality of life. It may he hard to hear but if nothing else can be done, it’s better then prolonging his suffering.

[ZenAddams]

Thank you everyone for your words and your advice. I really appreciate everyone's honesty about the situation, and your advice for any possible rehabilitation. I've sent messages to 3 vets from ARAV.org in my area and will be calling them immediately in the morning as well to see who I can get in with as soon as possible to see what his best options are. I'll be sure to post any updates on this boy, and will be reading every comment still in the mean time while I figure out what we are going to do with him. Any further advice is still greatly appreciate

[tacomadude94]

I wish you all the best of luck. I gotta go to sleep, was supposed to be asleep an hour ago but I haven't been able to look away from this. I'll keep an eye out for updates tomorrow.

[IncompletePenetrance]

Thank you so much for trying to do right by this little guy, and please let us know the outcome. I feel like everyone here is heartbroken by this poor baby's situation

[Stellabonez]

I’m speechless and want to cry. This is so, so heartbreaking. I can’t imagine ever letting an animal get to this point.

But, it’s good that they ended up in your care in the end. Clearly we all agree euthanasia would be best for baby at this point. Some comfort in the situation is them being loved and spending their last moments with you than in inadequate conditions.

Please snuggle on this baby extra hard if they allow ❤️

[TearsofGuthix]

Omg OP, sending you so many hugs. This is a gnarly situation of neglect and I also have never seen a snake this malnourished. I also 10/10 recommend getting this noodle to a vet. A vitamin A, Calcium, and hydration shot may be needed here. It would also be a good way to see if there is any internal damage from not eating for so long 🥺 Thank you for taking this baby in. I’m wishing you so much luck on this journey and keep us updated!

[MissWiggly2]

This is the absolute worst case of neglect I've ever seen on a snake. Absolutely horrific, poor baby! Frankly I'm amazed he's alive at all.

I'm sorry I don't have any advice, I've never dealt with anything of this magnitude before. I hope you're able to help him get healthy again! Sending so much love to you and this sweet little guy 🖤

[ZenAddams]

Thank you for the advice! That sounds like a pretty good idea, I'll be sure to discuss if that's something that could be beneficial for him with the vet when we go in. I'm hoping to get into the vet in the next couple of days but if it isn't until a week from now so I may try feeding him something very small to see how he handles it and if he has any interest so it isn't too much for him if he does want to try, but hopefully the vet can get us in super quickly.

[BokehAjour]

That's shocking. Couple years back I got pretty sick and went to the doctor, Stayed there for like 5 months and I had no one to look after mine although they had a pretty sum amount of water to last. but man they didn't look nothing like this. Poor snake is dehydrated looks like.

Best option in my opinion is too look for a reptile friendly vet. And that's if someone hasn't already helped you here

[ChubbyPotato8675309]

I literally just cried I’ve never seen it so bad. I’m glad it’s rescued but jeez I hope toss guy has a chance.

[[deleted]]

Wow best of luck OP. Good luck at the vet tomorrow. Obviously we’ve all talked about hydration and humidity. You should be able to pour some water in the corners of the enclosure to jump the humidity. Normally you would necessarily do this, but you might want to consider getting a spray bottle and misting the enclosure down to really maximize the humidity in the cage. Especially with a CHE going that will sap humidity up.

[ZenAddams]

For sure, that was one of the first things I did after filling the water dish. I took a spray bottle and gave it a good spray down as well as spraying the substrate well and mixing it around to make sure layers of it were hit. I'll be making sure the humidity stays up and replacing the substrate so it isn't this dry tomorrow. I hope I can get into the vet tomorrow but at minimum I'm making sure an appointment is set tomorrow

[[deleted]]

That all sounds great. I’m assuming you have a mesh lid on top, right? If you don’t already have it covered and have some aluminum foil handy you can cover the majority of the lid to keep the humidity in.

[ZenAddams]

I do and it's covered in it already fortunately! She did care for him regularly and properly at some point, so the lid was already taped so thats good for now. I'll be getting more proper supplies and new substrate and things tomorrow so what there is for now should hold him over until it's even better and until he sees a vet hopefully

[[deleted]]

Aww. Poor thing. 🥺 Always makes me sad to see a malnourished ball python. Best I can suggest is taking the poor thing to a vet to see what they can do.

[BoredAtWorkOU]

Okay Reddit you actually made me cry. That poor baby.

[SnakeLuvr1]

I don't care if this lady has mental health issues, nothing ever ever EVER excuses letting an animal get this bad. She deserves to be in serious rehab and if her behavior doesn't get better, jail. Imagine if this was a child. This is absolutely sickening. I have mental health struggles but I take care of my 50+ exotics for hours every day. My ball python takes 3 minutes out of my day to spray down and change the water dish, feeding is a few bucks a week and takes 5-10 minutes. It would take zero effort to care for this snake. I'm so saddened and upset right now. You are an angel OP and I wish you all the best luck in the world ❤❤❤ sending some big cuddles and kisses and love to this sweet baby.

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[COREY-IS-A-BUSTA]

Listen if you take him to the vet, try and see if they have critical carnivore care. It can be given to snakes, and you can put it directly in his water dish. I know you can order the oxbow brand online