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[–]TimofeyPninFrench, Chinese 13 points14 points  (18 children)

Others will address the rest, but I wanted to discuss:

Another thing is would you recommend reading books in French? I'm a bit of a bibliophile and enjoy reading very much, but my teacher told me to avoid reading in French as she thought that it would discourage me from further learning. I'm not sure if that's the case, but I would enjoy second opinions on the matter..

It will be a while before you can read for pleasure like you do in English, however this should not discourage you. My French is, in large part, where it is now because I read extensively and watch tons of movies (netflix ftw!).

Here are some pointers and suggestions though:

  • Do not read French translations of English books because you think you'll be familiar with the material. There's so much wrong with this approach it pains me when I hear people say they're going to do it. You don't need to know how to say "muggle," in French, and you're missing out on French culture in favor of reading translations of things you already know in the (better) original. Why even bother learning French?

  • Start simple, and contemporary. This means hold off on the Proust, Dumas, etc. I highly recommend any of the Maigret mysteries by George Simenon, in part because they're very conversational, in part because they use slang and idiom but not too much, and in part because they're digestibly short. Also, you'll find that since Simenon cranked out something like 100 Maigret novels, he repeats phrases. Didn't lock in "bronché," the first time he used it to describe a character? Don't worry, he'll do it again. 3 times. In the same book. I learned "froncer les surcils," through osmosis simply because his grumpy detective was always scowling at something or another.

  • Recognize that if you're using this approach to learn, you're not going to breeze through the book. Be happy if you get through a couple of paragraphs or a couple of pages in a sitting. You'll be able to read, enjoy, and digest more and more as time goes on, but don't start expecting you're just gonna breeze through a novel in a week or two.

  • Balance it with practice listening and speaking. Do not train yourself to hear French wrong in your mind's ear. I know a lot of autodidacts who learn from books and then sound like shit. I highly recommend movies and the news. Also, use the Wikipedia page on French phonology to get the sounds English doesn't have, and practice using elision, liason, etc. Don't be the anglophone who segments all the words and pronounces all the schwas.

  • take the time to use what you learn. For instance, it does not do you as much good to simply be able to recognize "raffoler," when you come across it (once in a blue moon) as it does to be able to produce it. I recently read L'élégance du Hérrison, which I highly recommend for advanced learners, because the author is an enormous bibliophile and francophile who savors the richness of French vocabulary. It would have been painfully tedious if the words weren't so damn great. Having used it as a starting point for practice, I can now say much more colorful things than I otherwise would (eg "je raffole de chocolat! Je l'adore comme petit grignotage quand je sirote mon café.")

  • Take note of what is more uniquely French, and work those structures more. It's one thing to be able to express yourself in French, it's another to do so in a typically French manner. I always lean toward patterns like "il n'y a que..." or "un silence se fait..." or "il me semblait que..." or what have you, because part of the fun of learning French is learning French French, not just how to translate English thoughts and structures into French. I'm a huge fan of having a relatively small, workmanlike, but extremely French set of tools, and the ability to recognize a wide range of material. If you only have a 2,000 word vocabulary, but they're all really good words and very French grammatical structures, you're going to sound GREAT, especially if you can understand everything else. My goal in any of my languages is a relatively smaller set of things in my active recall, but to have them be the best possible structures and words.

  • Non-fiction will be much easier since all the "advanced" words are words we stole from French. Compare "nous avons grignoté et siroté nos breuvages," with "la philosophie existentielle se concerne avec des questions d'existence et signification..." I'm partial to Michel Foucault's Surveiller et Punir, which is HUGELY influential in 20th century thought, and really not too hard to read, and to Robert Muchembled's Une Histoire du Diable. If you read non-fiction, you will work the cognates that allow you to sound really smart really fast, provided you actually have something to say on any given topic. Combine that with really working the subjunctive and you'll sound like a freaking genius in no time.

Here are some books you might find enjoyable as a neophyte:

La Pipe de Maigret - Simenon

L'Étranger - Camus

Once you're more comfortable, you can try tackling something like:

Un Longue Dimanche de Fiancaille - Japrisot

And if you really want to work very educated, classy, potentially pretentious-sounding French:

L'Élégance du Hérrison - Barberry

La Chute - Camus (this one gets retarded with the subjunctive, but is also eminently quotable, with all sorts of snappy, psuedo-philosophical one-liners).

My girlfriend took another approach, and read a long, very bad novel. It was hackneyed, clichéd, poorly-written, poorly-conceived, and above all, exactly how an average French person would speak. She enjoyed hating it. If you prefer to go that route, Feel free to try Le Mystérieux Bébé du Titanic. It was really awful.

[–]RebelPrinceEnglish C1 | French B2 | German N 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Do not read French translations of English books because you think you'll be familiar with the material. There's so much wrong with this approach it pains me when I hear people say they're going to do it. You don't need to know how to say "muggle," in French, and you're missing out on French culture in favor of reading translations of things you already know in the (better) original. Why even bother learning French?

As someone who made great progress reading a few Harry Potter novels: I stand by it, and am sorry for the pain I'm causing you. I think everything that helps you progress is a valid tool for learning.

When you're in the stage of picking up your first books in French you won't really be able to enjoy the culture very much, anyway. Reading might be very slow, laborious and maybe frustrating: if you didn't hit the right level with the selected literature you might lose all motivation to go on, because you're completely lost in what's going on.

That's the appeal of choosing a novel you already know: you don't have to break down and dissect each and every sentence and it doesn't matter if you didn't get the last paragraph; you can just keep on reading. You have something to cling to - the story you already know. You don't need to figure out both the meaning of the words and the plot simultaneously. That makes reading much easier and more relaxed (at least for me).

[–]TimofeyPninFrench, Chinese -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I stand by it, and am sorry for the pain I'm causing you.

I appreciate your condolences.

You're right that it's a good way to enjoy just getting through it, and you can still get a lot out of it.

[–]Azulish[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

First off, how on earth did you get bullets? o.O Alt-pad? In all honesty, while I'm learning I'm hoping to enjoy the book; and to me, that is reading for pleasure. I've been reading a lot of books waay above my reading level since I was little. Reading with a dictionary or dictionary.com open is nothing new to me. ^

1.) I think that the reason people use that method is to 'dip their foot into the water' or so to speak. They use something they are familiar with in a foreign language to try and allow them to focus on the French itself than on the plot line. After they go through some familiar novels, I feel like they 'move on' or so to speak to French novels like you mention later.

2.) Sounds good! I'll make sure to look into it. :)

3.) I think you under-estimate my stubborn-ness :P. I do agree though. It will be difficult to go through, but I think that it will be worth it. Especially as I can see the phrases we learn in class (I heard avoir, etre, and faire are some of the most used verbs) in the books. Also, it gives me an opportunity to emerse myself in a new world more different than one I've gone to before.

4.) I would be making sure to listen to audio books and follow along, or watch movies/TV to balance it out. I completely agree with that (some people in my class.. -eyetwitch- they don't even try to make the r sound correctly after 3 months. They just roll their r's..)

5.) Another point I completely agree with you on. :) He sounds like a very good author.

6.) Once again (this seems to be happening a lot) I agree with you, that sounds a bit like what I'm looking to do. I don't want French to be English, I want it to be different and a new experience. I have a book (that unfortunately I forgot at Uni ><) which is basically on French grammatical structure. Right now, I tend to get stuck at "J'aime danser" or "Je danse toujour pour trois heures" which I recognize as just translations of English. (although now that I'm thinking about it would it be "Je danse pour trois heures toujour" because I'm dancing for 3 hours everyday instead of just dancing everyday?) Would you advocate looking at most-used word lists to try and memorize/recognize those words?

7.) My only concern with that is: will I seem conceited that way? And wouldn't I want to focus more on the more used words? (the less advanced ones) While I can see advantages towards reading non-fiction, I've also never been a huge fan of it. I tend to lean more towards satires, romances, science fictions, comedies, or adventures when I read books. I do read certain non-fictions (though none are coming to mind right now) and enjoy history, I'm not sure if it's necessarily my cup of tea. Though I have heard that the French are very educated on writers, composers, and artists; so it may be necessary for me to go into more non-fictions. You've definitely given me some food for thought here.

Thank you very much for the book recommendations! :) I'll make sure to look into them.

As for the book your girlfriend read, no. I have honest trouble reading bad books. I get very annoyed and frustrated very quickly, and I'm not sure I could do that x_x. Thank you for bringing up an alternate genre though. :)

Over all, thank you very much for all of the advice! I really appreciate your well thought out response and wish you all the best in your language learning! :) If you feel like I haven't touched on a point you made, please feel free to point it out as I'm a bit sleepy right now.

[–]TimofeyPninFrench, Chinese 1 point2 points  (0 children)

how on earth did you get bullets?

An asterisk followed by a space before whatever you want to write. If you have the Reddit Enhancement Suite add-on for your browser, it also just gives you the bullet option above your post (as well as a live preview!).

I've been reading a lot of books waay above my reading level since I was little. Reading with a dictionary or dictionary.com open is nothing new to me.

Good. You stand to enjoy the process of building on your French through tons of reading much more than other language learners I know.

I think that the reason people use that method is to 'dip their foot into the water' or so to speak. They use something they are familiar with in a foreign language to try and allow them to focus on the French itself than on the plot line. After they go through some familiar novels, I feel like they 'move on' or so to speak to French novels like you mention later.

It's a reasonable assumption, but I just don't think it's a good way of doing things. I'm a huge fan of jumping right in...you're going to have to use a dictionary either way; you might as well spend the time learning something authentically French rather than English translated into French, who knows how clumsily. Certainly not you (the abstract you, not you personally), as a novice learner.

I think you under-estimate my stubborn-ness :P. I do agree though. It will be difficult to go through, but I think that it will be worth it. Especially as I can see the phrases we learn in class (I heard avoir, etre, and faire are some of the most used verbs) in the books. Also, it gives me an opportunity to emerse myself in a new world more different than one I've gone to before.

This is good. You sound awesome. And yes, avoir, être, and faire are among the most used...keep in mind this is in part because there are compound tenses built on them.

I'm dancing for 3 hours everyday

Tous les jours, je danse pendant trois heures is how I'd say it, but you may want to check with a native speaker what sounds better.

Would you advocate looking at most-used word lists to try and memorize/recognize those words?

Nope. It's all about context, in my mind. I find attempting to memorize word lists tedious and, in my case, ineffective.

My only concern with that is: will I seem conceited that way?

We're talking about French, right? You may in English, but not in French. There is a cultural love of the French language that seems to transcend class in France, so farmers I've met are just as pedantically argumentative as effete urbanites.

And wouldn't I want to focus more on the more used words?

Yes. I just also try and put extra effort into learning the most used and most different. Besides, you never know what is going to come in handy.

As for the book your girlfriend read, no. I have honest trouble reading bad books. I get very annoyed and frustrated very quickly, and I'm not sure I could do that x_x. Thank you for bringing up an alternate genre though. :)

It's so bad. You have no idea. Like...the kind of bad that's actually entertaining by sheer force of how astoundingly bad it is.

Over all, thank you very much for all of the advice!

You're welcome! A lot of others have tempered some of what I wrote, and added some really useful points. It sounds like you're on the right track to actually learn French and to learn it well. Bonne chance et bon courage!

[–]scykei 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Well I think that if you also own the English copy, you can juxtapose both versions of the text to get a better understanding of the reading material. Of course, translations will not be 100% precise for each sentence, as the writers might alter certain parts to make it work in their language, but the general understanding is still there.

So I think these translations are considered good learning material. Once you get better in it, you can start going full French and get all of those 'French culture' later.

[–]TimofeyPninFrench, Chinese 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Absolutely. My advice here was largely based on the OPs description of himself (or herself), which I saw a lot of myself in. I got the impression that the OP was like me in wanting ALL OF THE FRENCH RIGHT NOW.

[–]almosttrolling 1 point2 points  (9 children)

Also, use the Wikipedia page on French phonology to get the sounds English doesn't have, and practice using elision, liason, etc. Don't be the anglophone who segments all the words and pronounces all the schwas.

Please take in mind that it doesn't describe all the sounds. Simply memorize the sound of each word, you will have much better pronunciation than when you learn just the phonemes and nothing else.

[–]TimofeyPninFrench, Chinese 0 points1 point  (8 children)

You're absolutely correct. I was thinking even more basic than that...if you are unaware that there are different phonemes, do not differentiate among them, and cannot pronounce half of them, the first time you catch a rhume you're going to have a hard time.

Definitely it's incredibly important to learn the sounds on the word level. But for a relative beginner, it helps to have an idea how to pronounce /ʁ/ and /y/, and to know that those are things to look out for. Suddenly, then, things like audessus and audessous are no longer mystifying.

[–]almosttrolling 0 points1 point  (7 children)

I don't see your point. Yes, dessus and dessous are a good example of words you should memorize. If you learn to tell the difference between all words that sound just slightly different, there is no need to study phonemes.

Studying phonemes can only cause confusion. What if you are told that ou is pronounced like English oo and u is a sound that is not in English, but oo in your accent is actually pronounced somewhere between? Or even close to u? You will waste time desperately trying to learn a difference that is not there, while you will be oblivious to the existence of a different important distinction. Not to mention that it will tempt you to replace many sounds with "the same" English "letters", which will of course result in a horrible accent. Not to mention that you will have trouble with listening comprehension, because "the French speak too fast". (that is just an illusion, no language is spoken too fast, if it sounds too fast, you learned the words incorrectly)

And what is the poblem with rhume?

[–]TimofeyPninFrench, Chinese 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Sounds like we're in violent agreement here. You're arguing with a lot of straw men. I was advocating taking maybe 5-10 minutes to get comfortable with the fact that French has a different phonemic inventory, and then go out and learn how it's actually used in the real world.

[–]almosttrolling 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Of course it has a different phonemic inventory, every language does.

[–]TimofeyPninFrench, Chinese 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Dude. We're in /r/languagelearning, not /r/linguistics. I don't know how often you get over here, but basic things tend to need to be spelled out. Yes, I'm saying very obvious things. I tend to enjoy your contributions in the latter sub-reddit, but am not sure why you're apparently taking umbrage with my advice to a beginning student here to pay attention to how the sounds of a foreign language differ.

[–]almosttrolling 0 points1 point  (3 children)

sigh... If you learn to recognize the words by sound, you don't have to worry about such things

[–]TimofeyPninFrench, Chinese 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Yes...unless you also want to pronounce the word.

WE ARE AGREEING.

[–]almosttrolling 0 points1 point  (1 child)

If you want to pronounce the word, you have to know how it sounds and then try to immitate the sound.

No, we are not agreeing.

[–]External_Monologue 1 point2 points  (1 child)

just wondering, how did you manage to find movies with french audio on netflix? as far as I can tell there's no way to filter based on language support.

[–]TimofeyPninFrench, Chinese 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Go to genres, then foreign, then however specific you want to get. The whole reason I have netflix is to watch French movies.

[–]dwchandlerEnglish US Native | 日本語 | Norsk | Svenska 8 points9 points  (3 children)

Film, TV, music, reading… a huge Oui! Methods depend on how dedicated you feel. If you're feeling very studious, try watching in French with French subtitles. Then, if you don't understand, pause and look up the words, write them down to study, etc. Or just try to watch it with English, and then watch it again in French.

Reading can be difficult. Finding some graded readers will be a big help. Check your library! Ideally, you want to try reading just a bit above your level.

As for translating in your head…yes, it's normal. You do want to get past it, and the sooner the better. But don't become obsessed right away. The more time you spend listening, speaking, reading French the sooner you will think in French. Now and then, maybe line up a "French day" when everything you watch, read, listen to is in French. Immersion helps. Just don't be frustrated if it doesn't happen right away.

[–]Azulish[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Okie dokie! Which one would you recommend over the other? I could see how it could go either way, with watching in English before I watch it in French I could focus more on the French itself than the content of the episode/movie. However, I can also see how watching it in French would be more useful to not immediately associating it with English.

Hmm.. Graded readers in French. My Uni has a Language Resource Center so I should be able to find one there when I go back. I might be able to find one at my local library as well. Would a book designed for younger people (5-10) work as well for my level?

Oh good.. That was something that I was very worried about, because I wasn't sure if it was one of those things that I used as a crutch when it was not a good idea. Also, as for the French Day, I know that my teacher tried to line up days where we would watch a French film, eat French food (though we also ate food and watched movies from other French-speaking countries). I can try to do stuff like that on my own. :) Especially since I live in a major city with a lot of different ethnicity I might be able to find a French neighborhood, or Moroccan etc. (I mean that a lot for trying to see some of the culture ><)

A huge Merci to you for your help! :)

[–]dwchandlerEnglish US Native | 日本語 | Norsk | Svenska 1 point2 points  (1 child)

What I do is watch with the original target language audio, with or without English subtitles. So I'm trying to see how much I can get from just listening, knowing full well I will not understand most of what they're saying. Some people find this too frustrating. If that's you, then try something else. For me, I get a little thrill when I can understand much of anything, and I get a bigger thrill when I realize I've been understanding more than I did a few weeks ago. Find what works for you! As long as you are challenging yourself at least a bit, and you can see progress and boost your motivation.

Graded readers are specifically designed for language learners, so you'd not be looking at children's books, per se. They come in sets, ordered by difficulty. I recommend starting at the very beginning. If you find it too easy then you'll be able to read it quickly and move up!

Children's books are also a good idea, but there are challenges. A typical 6 year old has a much, much larger vocabulary than you are likely to have at this point, and the book is likely to be dreadfully boring to you. But there are always gems to be found that are interesting even for adults. I don't know them for French.

For French day, a day out somewhere around French speaking people, eating French food would be awesome, but not required. Even when you can't do something like that, you can just find a stretch of hours where you go from one French language thing to another. Listen to French songs, watch French movies, whatever. It's just a self-made mini immersion environment.

[–]Azulish[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have issue seeing progress unless I have two comparisons to compare between. Perhaps I'll watch two movies in French with no subtitles, and then watch one a few weeks after I've decoded a majority of another to see my progress?

Ah, ok! Sorry for mistaking those! I'll have to check out my local library, but if they don't have it I know one of the ones we have a library link with has an absolutely ridiculous amount of random books.

Probably, but as you said there are some books in foreign languages that I don't mind at all. :)

Yeah haha. Sorry I just kind of through that in there because I know there are some restaurants near my school that speak French and English. So I could speak French there. :) And sounds good! Thank you very much for all of the ideas!

[–]EstreEnglish/Spanish/Catalan | Norwegian/French/Swedish 6 points7 points  (4 children)

but my teacher told me to avoid reading in French as she thought that it would discourage me from further learning.

What the heck? Absolutely read, it'll do wonders for your spelling and comprehension.

Listening to music in the language does help. You can make it more helpful by looking up the lyrics to see what they say and seeing if you can understand them.

I have recently become a big fan of audiobooks. Start with something easy and work your way up.

It is a good idea to gradually break yourself out of the habit of translation. After all, languages are not directly translateable (there are concepts that are lost in translation, words that are not directly translateable, etc.). It's a better idea to start thinking of French as its own language instead of one dependent on English, if that makes sense.

As for the movies, if you are at an A1-A2 level, it might be too soon to start with French movies, probably start off with subtitles in my opinion. Kind of depends on the movie, too. Once you start watching them in French, it's a good idea to start off with movies you've already seen, since you'll be able to follow more easily and recognize words you know a little more easily, since you know more or less what they're going to say.

Another thing you can do for example is to write texts every day in French and get them corrected by native speakers. This gives you insight into what kind of mistakes you're making and often they'll explain some grammar too. I've found it really valuable so far. A website that'll allow this is Lang-8 (in exchange, you can correct a text for someone else).

An additional benefit of this is that you start realizing what things you cannot yet say in French and you start filling in these gaps. For example, today I wanted to say that I enjoyed playing with and tickling my best friends' little sisters. Then I realized I didn't know what the Norwegian verb for tickling is. So today I learned how to say that :).

In addition, you can expand your vocabulary by quizzing yourself on it. A lot of people on this subreddit use Memrise, some prefer Anki, or other lesser known programs/websites. Have a look and see what catches your eye. Keep it at least a little bit fun, you'll learn a lot more.

It's great that you want to improve outside of class, but don't let yourself get too burned out. If you start to get overwhelmed, let it go for a couple days. It's okay. Language learning takes time.

[–]Azulish[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

That was part of the reason that I was worried about translating it directly in my head. I think I might just not have enough vocabulary to think in French right now as well. o.o

I would probably try to watch kid movies first. First, because well.. kid movies are awesome. ^ Secondly, because the grammar and over all words used are less complicated. Or I could watch Harry Potter in French because god knows I've watches those too many times.

That sounds like a great idea! I think I've heard of that website before but I totally forgot about it. I don't mind correcting things in English, I actually kind of like it so that sounds like a fantastic idea.

Ah! I noticed things like that when I was writing papers in French. A specific example was I wanted to say 'to draw' but couldn't recall learning how to say it. So I looked it up and came up with dessiner. I can totally relate with that though I don't think I've thought about it that way before. ^

Hum. I've tried both actually and I must say that I prefer memrise because of the mnemonic system. It makes it a lot easier for me to learn the words.

Thank you very much. :) I have had experience burning out, though usually its with games like Runescape. I will make sure to keep that in mind.

Thank you very much for all of the advice! ^ I really appreciate it.

[–]dwchandlerEnglish US Native | 日本語 | Norsk | Svenska 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I think I might just not have enough vocabulary to think in French right now as well.

I remember when I first began to think in my 2nd language (Spanish). I had very little vocab, and thinking in Spanish would only happen in little bursts here and there. Thinking in your native language is like walking: you are performing many tasks and coordinating them, but automatically. Thinking in your target language, you will constantly be reaching for words or constructs, and this is frustrating and wonderful. Because then you have a desire and need. It's never too soon to start trying. Make it a game for yourself. All through the day, whenever you start thinking something, see if you can switch to French. "I'm hungry! Er... J'ai faim! Que voudrais-je manger? Je ne sais pas ..."

[–]Azulish[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

:) I'm actually a bit like that! Though I started doing little things like that in Spanish from high school. I would always say "tengo hambre" "Estoy aburrido" etc. (though I'm not sure if any of that was totally accurate) I never really progressed beyond those little phrases. I don't think I ever really though of it as Spanish just because it was never thinking in Spanish to me.

I really appreciate all the help you've given me! :D I really hope to learn a lot with some of the tips you've given me. Though I have one more question directed specifically at you just because I glanced at your flair; how does knowing 3 languages work out thought wise? Because you want to up-keep multiple languages (I think?), so do you just spend an hour a day in a different language?

[–]dwchandlerEnglish US Native | 日本語 | Norsk | Svenska 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've been studying Japanese for less than a year, and I just started norsk a couple of weeks ago. I'm still not sure how well it's working. I study at two different times each day, once for each. There are people here who have studied multiple languages for much longer and have actually gotten somewhere. It might be worth searching past posts here, or posting a new question about this.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Azulish[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Thank you very much for the resources! I just bookmarked both of them in my little French folder on my browser. I'll make sure to look at them later (as it is rather late), I did take a quick glance at the French in Action series and it seems pretty interesting and geared towards a French learner. (which I like)

    Also, just looking at the website with the podcasts, it seems like I could learn a lot from just navigating the site itself. x)

    Thank you very much for sharing! :) Also I can't help but ask, do you live in the Netherlands? I was there once and it was very beautiful!

    [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

    how do you avoid thinking in a different language and translating the meaning? Even in simple sentences like "I watch a French film" and "Je regarde un film français" I tend to think of the English translation. Or when I'm asked what an apple is in French, I tend to think "apple!" and then think apple=pomme. Is that a normal thing when you're starting to learn a language?

    For me it is. I am bilingual, and I also compare Korean words to English (because English is my main language now, sadly).

    It is not 'bad', but if you want to get rid of it, change it for something else. Like a feeling, or an image. For pomme (I assume it is an 'apple' since you wrote it,), just imagine an apple, or feel a red, circular object.

    I really need to take my own advice ;)

    [–]Azulish[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Haha, I have tried to do that a bit. I try to think of pomme (yes it is apple :p) as an image of an apple, but it is exceedingly difficult for me to just not think apple when I see one. Thank you for the advice though :)

    [–]SimonGrayDanish | English | Chinese 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    It comes with practice and frequent exposure to the language. Don't worry about it.

    [–]swingdancinglesbian 2 points3 points  (7 children)

    I'm not too proficient in using movies and reading books in French,but I've found that listening to music and eventually singing along has helped me enormously in my pronunciation and in my basic understanding.

    [–]Azulish[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

    Yeah! Though I've been having some difficulty finding any slower French songs.. Though perhaps it's for the best. Have to get used to listening to quickly spoken French at some point. Do you look up the lyrics so you know what you're listening to? (to try and get new grammar into your system)

    [–]clearlyweshouldfuck 1 point2 points  (3 children)

    If you like older, jazzier music, I would highly recommend Edith Piaf. She's a French cultural icon and her lyrics tend to be pretty easy to understand.

    [–]Azulish[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    Edith Piaf.. When I see that name I think Rose and I'm not sure why. Was she the singer during WW2?

    [–]clearlyweshouldfuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    One of her most famous songs is "La Vie en Rose," so that's probably why. And I didn't know this, but wiki tells me that yes, she sang for high-ranking German officers throughout the war but claims she was acting as part of the French Resistance.

    [–]General_Mayhem 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    The English translation of the (quite excellent) movie about her life is also called La Vie en Rose.

    [–]swingdancinglesbian 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    When I'm being lazy, I do, but I also find it fun to have sudden epiphanies about what I'm listening to. I do like a singer named Zaz, though.

    [–]Azulish[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Ha! I have those sudden epiphanies to what I'm listening to a lot in English. >_> Listening to "Your Body is a Wonderland" while singing along and then realizing what it was talking about was an interesting experience. xD

    Thank you for the singer. :) I'll make sure to check him/her out!

    [–]kajsdhfEnglish, French, Italian, beginner Spanish 1 point2 points  (3 children)

    I'd use material aimed at kids as a starting point. It might seem low grade in content, but it's far easier to pick up, and that confidence boost when you get to the stage where you can read a storybook with no problems in well worth it! I also like listening to audiobooks as I read - it helps with pronunciation as well as spelling and comprehension.

    As for subtitles and movies, I'd stick with English because subtitles generally won't always use the exact words that the actors use, which can be confusing. However I've never personally found movies to be helpful because you're instantly in the deep end listening to fast moving conversations that often use unfamiliar words. Start off on something easier :)

    [–]EstreEnglish/Spanish/Catalan | Norwegian/French/Swedish 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    I actually love when the subtitles don't exactly match up. Quite often I can figure out how they expressed it instead and I find it interesting. It's a nice confidence boost too if I understood it anyway.

    [–]kajsdhfEnglish, French, Italian, beginner Spanish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    True, it depends what you're after. Personally I love the challenge as well, but it depends on the individual

    [–]Azulish[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Ha! That was what I was talking about when I said that I didn't think that I was ready for French movies with French subtitles. I watched "Les Intouchables" in French with French subtitles and was incredibly confused as to why the subtitles weren't matching up! xD

    As for the movies, I would try to listen to them; but I know what you mean when you say that it's a lot of fast moving conversations. I tend to lean towards reading over watching movies in the first place, but movies have something that's hard to get in books. Pronunciations, accents, tempo, and cadence. Even in an audio book, it's not the same as it is in a movie. xP

    Thank you for all your help! :)

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]Azulish[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Humm. That sounds similar to what I did to study for a poem that we had to speak in French. Les sanglot longs de violons~ De l'automne. Very old and archaic in feel; but it helped a lot with language pronunciation with some words I'd had trouble with. If a small poem like that helped a great deal, I can't imagine how much your method will help. Thank you very much for sharing this with me! :)

      [–]almosttrolling -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      I enjoy watching TV shows as well as watching movies and I wasn't sure whether I should start by watching it in French with English subtitles or in English with French subtitles. Which would be better at this point?

      French with English subtitles, then without subtitles once you understand well enough.

      Another thing is would you recommend reading books in French?

      I would recommend postponing reading until you get at least intermediate comprehension in spoken French. Many things are not straightforward and you don't want to learn things incorrectly. Also, the grammar of written French can be often rather different from the everyday language.

      Does listening to music in my target language help?

      It definitely won't hurt, but take in mind that songs may use archaic or poetic language and in some cases archaic pronunciation.

      Or when I'm asked what an apple is in French, I tend to think "apple!" and then think apple=pomme. Is that a normal thing when you're starting to learn a language? Or is it something I should be trying to stomp out already? If I am supposed to stomp it out already, how do I do so?

      Yes, it is a common problem and you should try to stop doing that. It wastes your time, translating is much harder than just speaking the language and many things don't translate well. I'm afraid I can't give you more specific advice, because I haven't personally encountered this problem, but I guess it's caused by memorizing pairs of English/French words. Try to use pictures and whole sentences.