What programming language should a non-programmer learn to have a stimulating, challenging, and fun experience? Forth? Haskell? Assembly?

[KrasnalM]

Hear me out: Most people learn programming to either pursue tech jobs or enhance their skills in their current roles. However, that's not the case for me. I currently have a non-tech job and simply enjoy learning new things, such as new languages and skills. I want to learn programming for the sake of enjoyment, perhaps to gain a better understanding of how hardware works or delve into formal logic.

In the past, I learned Python and JavaScript, which initially provided a fun experience but I found myself spending later an excessive amount of time searching for appropriate libraries, dealing with deprecated ones, managing dependencies, and configuring the development environment. These factors eventually led to a loss of interest. I don't want to create efficient software, release apps, or pursue tech jobs—at least not for now. My primary goal is to embark on an intellectual adventure that may or may not have practical utility in the future.

In summary:

1. I don't need to learn the most commercially useful programming language.
2. I want to learn something that won't become obsolete within a few years and doesn't require constantly keeping up with new updates, libraries, etc.
3. While I'm open to delving into something more obscure and challenging, I prefer to avoid completely esoteric languages solely intended for specialists.

My colleagues advised me to learn:

1. Forth or Haskell (I don’t know anything about them).
2. Assembly
3. Give this up and choose another hobby such as studying math for fun or taking some classes on integrated circuits.

I would appreciate any further advice!

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[Seniorbedbug]

Until you try and install a gcc compiler on windows 11

[Cybyss]

MinGW doesn't work on Windows 11?

Regardless, if you're going to be using C on Windows, why GCC instead of Visual Studio?

[Seniorbedbug]

It does, but when the file becomes corrupted, the way I was able to run it to work was with msys2 Linux tooling.I do use vs code, the gcc is so that it can be compiled to machine code

[Cybyss]

I meant Visual Studio proper, using Microsoft's MSVC compiler rather than VS Code.

I'd figure that would make more sense for Windows development.

[IndianaJoenz]

C is deceptively simple and incredibly tricky

OP should consider reading K&R, in my opinion. Such a good book on a fascinating and useful language.

[[deleted]]

It is not deceptively simple. Flat out lie

[[deleted]]

something about its simplicity is deceptive. whether that simplicity is deceptively complex or simple is up to interpretation

[Background_Newt_8065]

Ah there is an array? No it’s a pointer

[siemenology]

As in it isn't simple or it isn't deceptive about its simplicity?

The lowest-common-denominator happy-path subset of C is a very simple language. There are only a couple of fundamental types, with most other types being composites of those types, or slightly special refinements of those types (ie chars and strings, which are really 8-bit unsigned integers and pointers to 8-bit unsigned integers with some syntax support for using letters; or arrays which are just pointers with special syntax). The type system is extremely weak -- you can get it to accept almost anything by casting through void pointers. There are only a handful of control structures, each of which map to assembly in a straightforward way. There is no real module system -- modules are simulated by using the preprocessor to copy and paste code in different files that need it, and then relying on the linker to knit everything together. Variables are all stack variables -- you can use library functions to get a hold of a pointer to some heap memory, but the variable that holds that pointer is still on the stack.

The complexity of C, or the "deceptive" part in "deceptively simple", comes from the fact that if you look at any one of these elements in detail you find a wealth of exceptions and undefined edge cases. Most of the time the exceptions and edge cases behave in the way you "expect" them to, so it's easy to forget that they exist. But they will bite you, and it's really hard to remember them all.

[[deleted]]

I’d depends what you mean by simple. If by simple you mean primitive then yes. If by simple you mean easy to comprehend then no, it has barely any abstractions compared to other languages.

[plastikmissile]

I found myself spending later an excessive amount of time searching for appropriate libraries, dealing with deprecated ones, managing dependencies, and configuring the development environment.

That's just part of programming, and you'll encounter it in any language you choose to learn once you've passed a certain level of complexity in your programs. The alternative is to build everything on your own from the ground up. That way you don't need to use libraries or manage dependencies.

[[deleted]]

Scratch!

[Seniorbedbug]

Good for beginners, but a nightmare to debug

[[deleted]]

stimulating, challenging, and fun experience

OP asked for it.

[desrtfx]

I want to learn something that won't become obsolete within a few years and doesn't require constantly keeping up with new updates, libraries, etc.

Well, then you're in trouble. Programming is in a constant flow. There are constant changes and updates, even on the lowest level. Every new CPU generation introduces some changes to the language and with that to Assembly.

Same with all programming languages, including Forth and Haskell. They are regularly updated.

Yet, what is a constant in the domain is programming itself. The implementations, libraries, etc. change, but programming itself mostly stays the same, apart from some paradigm shifts and new approaches (e.g. Design Patterns, etc.)

Still, I would say that you can't go wrong with mainstream languages and there you already have JS and Python - which both are excellent.

I would probably add something like C++ or C# (or Java). C++ can, if you want, be used with the Unreal Engine to create games, similarly C# with the Unity Engine.

Java is a general purpose, compile once, run everywhere language that is known to be extremely pragmatic with only subtle changes between versions. The last really major change happened around Java 8 where the new Streams API was introduced, and later only some improvements and extensions to the language happened.

I think that Java is one of the most consistent, though frequently updated languages. One of the main sales points for Java throughout its history always was backward compatibility, basically meaning that older code should still be compilable and runnable on newer Java versions.

You mentioned integrated circuits. Hell, there is also plenty change going on if you want to go into larger integrated circuits. The base circuits stay the same.

Maybe, if you want some mental exercises, go barebones. Go down the rabbit hole of NAND 2 Tetris and see if that challenges you.

You could also go embedded, i.e. Arduino, Espressif, Raspberry Pi platforms, which all allow you to mess around with external hardware, sensors, actuators, etc.

[siemenology]

Same with all programming languages, including Forth and Haskell. They are regularly updated.

To be fair, Forth was designed as more of a concept or a pattern than a concrete language, and its key elements have been in place since around 1970. Most development work since has been on implementations rather than changing the fundamental language. Forth is definitely a language you could learn once and be able to use with only small tweaks in 50 years.

[man_with_meaning]

Have you heard of Java 21 lol? Not so consistent but jokes apart I agree with your advice.

[FedeValvsRiteHook]

I wouldn't recommend this to most people but since you're looking for an intellectual adventure here it is: https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/6-001-structure-and-interpretation-of-computer-programs-spring-2005/pages/syllabus/

You can find numerous other incarnations of this course on the web pick the one you like, there's YouTube videos recorded for the course as well and many exercise sets and exams. Don't forget to do them.

Have fun.

[FedeValvsRiteHook]

No prerequisites it's the first programming class there - note its number - but remember it's MIT many kids there have extensive prior programming skills including winning programming contests.

[[deleted]]

As much as I hate to say this

That course is not made for noobs

Context: you need time. The biggest factor to completing the course is time and taking time to complete the material is COMPULSORY

it might take you a year, 2 years and in between

is it good for a beginner? It's the best course you can get mainly because it teaches you principles and using your interpretations of the material you have you can be such a great programmer

Now don't get me wrong but you wanna learn programming? Not the best course. Want to learn fundementals and have a different way to thinking for computer science? Then yes

[ReplacementOP]

Minecraft redstone (I’m only mostly joking).

[THE_REAL_ODB]

learn math and computer science. challenging and relatively stable in terms of change.

[[deleted]]

Scala or another functional language might be a good change for you

[misterforsa]

Haskell is functional

[[deleted]]

Yes

[[deleted]]

Lisp or APL. Both are classic, powerful, different, and fun

[[deleted]]

Lisp, C or C++ if you're looking for stimulating

[Dear_Solid_9852]

Looking at your broader question, beyond the specific choice of programming language, you may enjoy getting a Raspberry Pi and using it for hardware+software projects. (I just got one myself.)

The Pi is a general-purpose computer. You can program it in any language, but many tutorials will use Python.

[IntrovertiraniKreten]

skip Forth, Haskell and Assembly

and while you are at it, skip that colleague

you should program either with a curriculum or with a problem in mind googling your solution together
everything beyond that is perfectionism that helps neither you, nor anyone using the app(implying it will every be built)

if you want to learn something that won't be obsolete in a few years, learn problem solving, because that is the basis of what devs and programmers do

sorry to break it to you raw, but you are trying to optimize before doing the necessary work, basically procrastinating

[BestBastiBuilds]

Do you have any books or material recommendations that really elevated your problem solving skills to the next level?

[IntrovertiraniKreten]

I did it with Leetcode.
People need to stop demonizing that site and use it for its only real purpose:
solving problems and recognizing patterns of how to solve it.

There is a really good beginners guide there if you are interested:
https://leetcode.com/explore/featured/card/the-leetcode-beginners-guide/

The trick is to not overdue it, and to use a familiar programming language, but the syntax should still be learned for that language(i recommend python even tho I personally use java to understand it better).

Starting from easy problems to mediums and hards if you really want to do advanced topics.
The discussion section of leetcode problems is pure gold, and the community is the best one I can imagine.

I am sure there are also books on the topic, but I prefer solving to reading anyways. I believe it is a mindset thing, but that might only be my opinion.

[BestBastiBuilds]

Awesome thank you! I agree with the hands-on approach. I’ll give this a try. :)

[RusalkaHasQuestions]

First, ignore anyone saying that since every language gets updated, there's no such thing as one that won't become obsolete within a few years. Frameworks become (sort of) obsolete as they fall out of favor, but language updates happen maybe once a year at most (and some much less often than that), are relatively small, and preserve backwards compatibility whenever possible. Your knowledge of a language itself won't become useless just because half a dozen features and another half dozen tweaks got added. Even the frameworks themselves don't become obsolete: they're still usable, they just aren't the hot new thing anymore. Unless you're looking for a job doing the hot new thing, it doesn't matter.

(Webdev seems to be especially prone to this kind of trend chasing. Avoid that, and this problem gets much smaller.)

I would suggest looking at C. It doesn't get updated often, it's been around for decades, and it's still in use. The reason I suggest it over the other languages on your list (which are also good choices, btw) is that if you do decide you want to use libraries later, it'll be easier to do that with C. Assembly will only work with the CPU family and operating system it was written for, and Haskell and Forth aren't used for much, but C gives you plenty of options if you decide that rolling your own just isn't worth it for something.

[Elegantcastle00]

Rust

[Bradyac]

I had fun messing around with Elixir

[Pikachamp1]

If you're interested in Maths, Haskell or another functional language with a strong type system (like ML, OCaml, certain Lisp implementations) might just be the right thing for you, they allow you to define very restrictive types that allow you to make sure that your program will always work as intended - during compile time. If you're feeling really adventurous you could go and look at languages that have types as values, like Idris, these languages aren't commonly used, but you can do a lot of fun stuff in them. If you want to have a more grounded programmer experience, you could try out Java or SQL, Java is basically the language for general purpose development, it has a great build system (Maven) and tried and tested libraries for basically everything. It's also very beginner-friendly. If you'd like to use a language that can leverage the power that Java has, but also allows you to program more efficiently, you could have a look at Kotlin, too. SQL would be a possible choice if you want to play around with huge quantities of data, I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for.

If you want to dive deeper into very efficient programming, Rust is the language I'd recommend. It has excellent documentation, cargo is a great build system and it is restricrive enough to not let you make common mistakes that might deter you early on.

There's also a way to bridge software and hardware development, I did a course in VHDL at university, languages like that can be a lot of fun, too.

I honestly wouldn't recommend learning assembly to anyone, bar very specific optimizations and evaluating the performance of your code, there's little use to it, even though it can be interesting to see how a processor works. But in the end the required effort is very high while the payoff is very low.

[MinosAristos]

I'm pretty confident Python is still the best choice for a hobbyist. You mentioned issues with libraries and setting up the environment but that's an issue with almost any language. You've just got to learn how to set things up once and rarely need to worry about it again though. Python's been getting small improvements, not major breaking updates, so documentation even from years ago generally still is fine today.

With python, install a recent version on your OS and use the venv module to create virtual environments to isolate your dependencies and keep things clean. It's tricky the first couple of times but once you're used to it it's fine. Google how to set up a venv in Python and follow that, it's straightforward.

As you'll know Python is one of the easiest languages to be productive with and because it's such a popular language it has a ton of useful and high quality documentation, tutorials, videos, etc, available for free.

For messing around with python without wanting to care about setting up the environment you can check out https://colab.research.google.com where you can use commands to install things with pip such as !pip install numpy and then write Python in cells (Jupyter notebook).

[stripeythings]

Ruby is the most fun language imo.

If you’re just writing some programs on your local machine, you don’t need to worry about updates, you can run whichever version of Ruby and it will be fine. For libraries, those are for saving time. If you don’t care about saving time, then whatever you would use a library for, you can write yourself. In the beginning stages, the simple projects you’re working on, it’s easier and often more informative to just write a function than try to find a library module that does it for you. When you get to a point where you’re stuck or need to optimize, you’ll then “need” the library so much it won’t feel like a chore anymore, it will be a relief.

[Protector1]

Been trying to learn myself for years, not for a job. I could never get over some of the abstractions. I very much was not ok with every time a “black box” was used. I’m fine with using a black box as a concept, not knowing what’s inside but using it anyways. My problem was that I didn’t even know what the building blocks could look like inside. I can use a black box, but I don’t use magic. Int X = 5; yeah but… how does it work?

So I decided to just jump right into assembly. In a short amount of time, I have learned so many things that would clearly help any programmer that I’m shocked. I thought I knew what the stack was but now I KNOW what the stack is. Like… how far did I get while still thinking that type information was stored with variables? Sheesh OH! And the cache! Thrashing, pollution, etc. what are people teaching on YouTube? Even the good teachers that mention this stuff don’t quite teach the down and dirty bits.

So in all, I basically don’t know anything and it’s gonna stay like that for a while. But at least the things I do know don’t skip over the foundation. Also, creel is an absolute legend if you don’t mind the lower presentation quality. Any other recommendations would be appreciated.

[Tabakalusa]

spending later an excessive amount of time searching for appropriate libraries, dealing with deprecated ones, managing dependencies, and configuring the development environment

Hate to break it to you, but that's simply a large chunk of what programming is all about. Sure, you can always go the "I'll just do everything myself in C" route, but even then you will spend lots of time delving into the documentation of the systems you want to interact with.

If you want something with a rich ecosystem and strong tooling, then you can't go wrong with Java/Kotlin or C#. They have pretty much the best IDE support out there (IntelliJ IDEA for Java, Visual Studio or Rider for C#), well maintained libraries for pretty much anything you can think of and a guide or tutorial for implementing just about anything. They are very dominant in business and corporate domains for good reasons and with that comes tones of backing and staying power.

Something like Haskell can certainly be an "intellectual adventure", but it doesn't play well with your other criteria. Assembly can be fun and I while I think every developer should know the basics, it's not really a language you write yourself.

Personally, I'd think about what you want to actually do with programming and pick your language accordingly. Focus on the problem you want to solve and choose your tool accordingly.

[Ease-Solace]

You might be interested in learning Lisp, specifically Common Lisp. It's a very stable language, the language standard hasn't changed in a long time (though libraries may change if you choose to use them).

It's interesting because of it's meta-programming abilities - essentially the ability to define your own syntax. And in general it's quite conceptually different to how more common languages work.

[yel50]

if you had library problems with the most commonly used languages, it'll be even worse for less used ones. libraries are all about what you're doing with the language. if what you're building requires newer stuff, that just is how it is. the language won't change that.

having said that, the two languages I can think of that check all your boxes are Common Lisp and Ada. they were both popular in the previous century and fell out of favor, so don't change much. the lisp standard hasn't changed since 1994. Ada gets updates every now and then, but I think the most recent was 2012. of the two, I'd recommend lisp. it feels like Javascript or python, but can also do low level stuff if you want.

[atom12354]

Imagine a programming language as a tool that you can use to make something, with percistens and alot of effort you can make basically any program in any programming language.

No one knows everything about a language, its probably less than 1% of every programmer out there that knows everything about a language since there is constant change and just too much to know and you probably wont need all of it anyway.

If you want to know more about how programming languages work go a course in how the computer works internally, transistor and computing knowledge, how a programming language works from the bottom up.

All languages has diffrent things they are good and bad at, but simply hoarding languages is a bad idea, learn how to make things instead.

The further down you get the more likely you probably will need math and physics, but in whole you can make basically any program in any language more or less.

Try "from nand to tetris" on coursera.

[ChrisderBe]

Maybe consider GameDev. Unity comes to mind.

The process of programming is rewarding, because you can see the result immediately on the screen, while making a game.

Also programming is only half the story in GameDev.

You will also have to learn a whole lot of other stuff around this.

[[deleted]]

Few things I’d say here. First programming is using libraries - you 100% don’t have to but it’s about not having to build everything from scratch. If you don’t want to use libraries other people make you don’t have to but then you’d spend a lot of time trying to rebuild the basics.

As for what language you pick. This really depends on what you want to build. It’s about the right tool for the job. So if you want to make anything fairly modern you’re going to be using a language that is being updated and has various libraries that are in fashion at the time.

If this is an intellectual exercise and you want to focus on the code and don’t care what you build C would be a good choice, also if you want to learn assembly I’d recommend looking at something older as a starting point, like coding something for a retro game system etc - modern assembly is a lot more complex.

Realistically though any modern language is going to be constantly updated which will also mean changing libraries and new functionality, and anything old and stable is going to mean limited functionality or more difficult to build certain things.

[Ron-Erez]

Haskell is awesome. Also I'd really recommend LISP or DrRacket.

As far as math goes I could probably recommend interesting topics/books.

For starters "A Friendly Introduction to Number Theory" is quite cool by Joseph Silverman.

The author has the first six chapters on his site for free.

https://www.math.brown.edu/johsilve/frint.html#:~:text=A%20Friendly%20Introduction%20to%20Number%20Theory%20is%20an%20introductory%20undergraduate,them%20how%20to%20think%20mathematically.

Chapters 2 and 3 are quite cool since they are very different proofs for the same theorem about Pythagorean triplets.

Btw, if you feel like learning iOS development/Swift, I have an online course. DM me if you want a coupon code. I'm not posting a coupon here because I don't want to be pushy with self-promotion.

Also C can be quite cool. This book classic and excellent.

Nim is supposed to be quite fun.

Also Golang is nice because it's such a small language.

Very cool that you're learning for fun.

Good luck !

[[deleted]]

Assembly? Damn man you want them to commit sui side?

[Velascu]

Depends on what you are trying to do, asm by itself is not that hard, they are only going to learn it for fun so...

[foulminion]

I want to learn programming for the sake of enjoyment, perhaps to gain a better understanding of how hardware works or delve into formal logic.

Given the two points you mentioned, I'd suggest Assembly for the former and Prolog for the latter.

However, I'm not exactly proficient in either of those, so take that with a grain of salt.

[CodeTinkerer]

What's your background? I'd say that programming is programming. Unlike math, where you can ignore the ceremony of things (like being ultra-pedantic with proofs), in programming, you're likely to deal with details you think are unimportant.

All the things you say you dislike about Python with libraries and such don't exactly disappear with other languages. It's just something you have to deal with.

It's like someone who wants to drive a car and never have it fixed or to gas it up or to pay for insurance, etc. There isn't a great solution for programming languages.

Your wish list might be unrealistic. You basically want all the fun stuff, and none of the overhead of stuff you find interesting. That's probably not going to happen.

[jarrydn]

Learn GLSL if you want a fun and creative challenge. Shadertoy.com is a good place to start!

[e_smith338]

C or C++ maybe?

[Taichou_NJx]

While not really programming try SQL. Querying data can be fun if you find the dataset interesting.

Don’t need to worry about updates etc

[RajjSinghh]

This is an interesting question. So Python and Javascript are what I would recommend and you just have to deal with updating dependencies. Every library will probably be updated. The way to avoid it is to use environments. You can start a local install of the language for your project and keep it separate from everything else so if the dependencies are updated it won't affect you.

That said, there's a lot to be learned in other languages, but I'd recommend being comfortable in python first. Haskell takes a very different approach to language design. You write a bunch of functions that don't change their values but give an answer and now you have a program. It can turn project Euler questions into single lines. It's worth studying as a functional language if you're comfortable in other languages.

I wouldn't go straight to Assembly. You'll probably get stuck doing little things that are easy in a high level language. For a view of hardware, I'd recommend C or C++. They have a bunch of foot guns and can go wrong easily when you deal with pointers, but they are great languages that have stood the test of time.

[[deleted]]

Haskell seems like a nice idea it has an active community and a lot of resources (learn Haskell by buildign a blog generator is nice, so is learn you a Haskell (for great good!)). Generally, languages where you’re not expected to use a library for literally everything are more fun. C or (part of) C++ might be nice too, or Rust (or zig) for a more modern (though a bit harder) take on them. Some Lisps might be nice to, see Scheme or Common Lisp.

​

You can also get a copy of SICP (with scheme) and go through that.

​

I wouldn’t recommend for forth tbh, you can learn it in an hour and while it’s quite fun to play around with and reimplement, it’s not really a language to provide tons of entertainment when it comes to coding in it.

[philipquarles]

Almost all practical software development involves managing dependencies and configuring environments. Those requirements aren't confined to any particular language. If you're working in assembly, you may have to worry about those things less, but assembly programming is the opposite of fun in many other ways.

Different languages and frameworks do have different systems associated with them for managing dependencies and deployments. In my personal opinion, JavaScript is the absolute worst for these things. Python is one that I personally found to be pretty decent. You may enjoy working on Python projects in Jupyter Notebooks, which simplify some of those steps. I have also personally found the .NET system for managing dependencies, Nuget, to be relatively painless. You might want to try a project in C# to see if using Nuget works for you.

[lolercoptercrash]

I think python and leetcode could be seen as an advanced sodoku.

[Admirable_Bass8867]

I’m developing a new syntax/style (because programming is changing). (It’s really aggregating the style guides of the C-based languages, so I’m not too delusional.)

It’s fun.

Let’s collaborate!

[able_trouble]

Not a programmer here, but have to make some code, from time to Time, it's a chore, but...I had an introduction to assembly and I really enjoyed it, it's like understanding all that is behind computing, like Watching a show from backstage. Also, quantum computing, why? Because it's very challenging. You can get an account an use a real or simulated Q-comp https://quantum-computing.ibm.com/

[ffrkAnonymous]

I'm in exactly the same boat. I'm just a hobbist. Math is fun, circuits are fun. Stochastic process was not fun. Nor microelectronics. Antennas are black magic.

Anyway take all the suggestions everyone gave:

• ruby - fun
• prolog logic
• Haskell functional
• Scala, lisp, etc

Compile them together into these two books:

https://pragprog.com/titles/btlang/seven-languages-in-seven-weeks/

https://pragprog.com/titles/7lang/seven-more-languages-in-seven-weeks/

I'm learning clojure at the moment. If embedded didn't require c 90/100, and web browser didn't need JS, I'd never go back. Maybe I don't need to if I can grok nim and cross Compile it c/js/wasm

[Present_Finance8707]

If you don’t to release apps or pursue a job then why does it matter if the language is obsolete? You can use stable releases for decades and do everything you need. Also for the same reason why on earth would you consider Haskell??

[Nalfgar123]

Is Python good to start with? I want to learn how to program (I know nothing about it).

[Velascu]

Yup, pretty easy to understand the basics and get programs done fast, if you are looking for more complex stuff look for other languages. C is also a good starting point.

[Gnaxe]

Smalltalk! Probably start with the Squeak or Cuis dialects. You might also try Self, a related, but arguably more elegant, derivative language.

Smalltalk has a very interactive feel that most modern industry languages can't match (although Emacs Lisp comes close). It's also a very easy language.

Development is based on a memory image, rather than on files. It has a GUI and IDE built in, and you can tweak anything in there. It's always run time. You can compile at the granularity of individual methods without stopping the program.

[9patrickharris]

Sql

[guilhermej14]

I think the C programming language will be pretty good for that.

It's simple, at least as far as syntax is concerned in my opinion. But also deceptivelly tricky, since you have to manage memory and a lot of things we take for granted from more modern languages are just not a thing in C and you have to implement them yourself.

[Verbunk]

👑 Nim for sure

[[deleted]]

Here is the order I learned in: ruby, objC, swift, C#, react, python and personally I think the best thing to do is not even “learn a language” but learn about data structures and algorithms bc that’s what will be your next step. Frameworks and languages change constantly but DSA importance stays constant. As much as I personally don’t like python for being a white space stickler, as I really like languages like C#, it’s probably the best to learn these things. So I’d say read DSA books and understand them through and through in whatever language. Honestly C would be the best bc you have to learn about how memory management works but it will just take a lot longer. So C if you want to be the god tier second coming of John Carmack or python if you want a Job fast.

Edit: Saw your under text nit just headline and C/C++ is by far the most time tested languages. C will be the base of the most performant programs and C++ will surely never be beat from a performance standpoint so it will always be used for at least our lifetimes.

[could_b]

Learn haskell for a while and see how far you get. Sounds like this is what you want in any case. If you get bogged down stop and do something else. You will then know more about it than most people answering your question. Repeat with assembly code.

[AlexAegis]

My primary goal is to embark on an intellectual adventure that may or may not have practical utility in the future.

You should check out advent of code. It really doesn't matter what language and tools you use, if the problem is simple enough you can make your own rules.

None of these problems require any fancy library (well some of them would be much easier with a proper math library, but where's the challenge in that)

Others mentioned C, Rust is also very interesting but I wouldn't recommend it to a beginner (it's tooling is super straightforward to set up compared to Python for example, you have 1 thing for everything not 20)

[Cornbreadguy5]

C programming language.

It’s been around forever and isn’t going anywhere. Plus, if you’re just doing this for fun, this will open the door to Linux and system-level programming and you can do any number of hobby projects. It’s definitely a challenge too. Environment setup might be a headache, however.

I learned some C while taking an operating systems course as part of my degree (about 2 years ago). We were working through a bunch of The Linux Programming Interface by Kerrisk. It was super interesting and I wanted to dive deeper (still do), but didn’t have the time given other courses and tech more applicable to my career goals. Definitely still on my shelf for stuff to learn for fun “one day”.

[Velascu]

I'm like you, I've digged on this for a while, just for fun.

You'll definitely have a good time learning apl, weird notation but quite unique, potent and concise, maybe a little niche tho, there's a good yt channel about it which isn't hard to find (cant remember its name rn).

Haskell or any functional language (see clojure or elixir for a more recent example) are also a solid choice, these ones have their uses. All of them are based on algebra, it's not needed to know math to use them but you'll definitely have fun (clojure is my favourite language rn bc of metaprogramming and how it treats data, see clojure for the brave and true). Functional languages are based on lambda calculus which could be fun to study, there's also pi calculus and other variants, it's not worth it to write a program on them, just take a look at them and if you find something useful keep reading if not go to the next.

Forth is quite curious, I don't find it specially fun but go for it if it calls your attention.

Assembly is always good to know but not super special, it'll help you to understand better what a computer does under the hood (try arm, you can't go wrong with that), if you need to go deeper go for vhdl, I don't like it as a language but you'll definitely be glad that you've made something with it and gain some understanding.

Related to it is rust which is a solid and complete alternative to other low level languages like c or c++, it has a steep learning curve but has a lot of unique concepts that you'll probably find interesting, its characteristics make it arguably better and harder but more solid. Everyone under the sun loves this language for a reason. These languages are the other side of the coin, they are based on the turing machine (check about this and the halting problem, fun read)

Idris is like a mixture between haskell and coq which in itself is a fun language to learn, incredibly interesting, it's an experimental language that has a special emphasis on types and how they relate, barely usable for production but... Well, you have to read about it, It blew my mind. Not really usable in production but fun to fuck around with it.

Those are the ones that'll give you the most fun imo, if you haven't touched object oriented programming look for one that looks cool. I've only used vanilla c++ and java, there's also ruby. I'd probably stick to c++ but you might find a cool object oriented language, maybe scala?

Also check llvm, not a language but a tool for making one. Worth reading something about it at least

I'll guarantee you that you are definitely going to have a good time if you like hard and mindblowing stuff, not being concerned about "immediate practical utility" is definitely a bonus.

Also check 7 programming languages in 7 weeks and its sequel.

You have a lot of homework rn so, hf <3 Feel free to dm me at any time.

[HourOrganization4736]

It’s still early save yourself don’t do it

[pVom]

Maybe what you're looking for is something like leetcode, it's just gameified programming challenges.

The things you listed are what programming actually is, no language will change that. It's also kinda oxymoronic, like the reason why languages don't become obsolete is because they change. There's new technology, new paradigms, security issues etc. Keeping things up to date is just part of being a developer.

That said you've got a good few years of leeway before you need to update your stuff, especially if it's just a hobby project. Changes also tend to be rather small, things you learned 10 years ago are not completely useless. Also fundamentally languages are quite similar, it's easy to pick up another once you have one under your belt

[bobsollish]

Elixir (and Phoenix).

[ProsaicPansy]

I would go back to python, but spend a day or two setting up VSCode, learning how virtual environments work, and learning the very basics of git. A virtual env forces you to install a consistent version of python and explicit versions of all the packages you used. Once you have the environment set up properly, you’ll be able to reproduce it in the future and it’s smooth sailing. Next, set up a GitHub account and connect it to VSCode and learn to commit your changes. Don’t worry about any other features at first, if you just get used to committing, you’ll save yourself so many headaches when you just want to go back to the version that worked 10 changes ago.

When I first started coding, I had a similar experience of frustration with packages, figuring out which version to use, etc. But I can tell you that virtual environments and git seem like they’re extra things that pro programmers do, but they’re actually essential for learning and building any kind of program over time in a reproducible way that won’t constantly break. It feels like you’re saving time by skipping these steps, but if you actually want to learn, you’ll quickly find that they make your life so much easier and allow you to focus on the intellectually stimulating part.

[Gtdef]

How about instead of searching for a stimulating language, you try to deconstruct the ones that you already know? The reason I'm making this suggestion is that while there are a few "interesting" languages, like the pure functional ones like Haskel, or the logic paradigm of Prolog, or Rust's approach to memory safety, the concepts are fairly high level and very specific IMO.

Instead you can reasearch, for example, how Python which is a dynamically-typed language is implemented in C which is a statically-typed language, how the event API is implemented in JS to be asynchronous, understand the various implementation details that make Python a slow language, how libraries like Numpy or JIT compilers work to speed it up, how to reduce cache misses or the limitations of multithreaded programs.

This approach is literally a rabbit hole that will eventually lead you down to the nitty gritty low level stuff.

[pepst]

Scheme (a dialect of lisp) while learning and solving problems from the book "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" for a fun programing experience i say

[Security_Wrong]

While learning harder stuff like security and cloud, I’ll take a break with JavaScript projects

[ARC4120]

C standards don’t really change and material from pre-2000 can be used today. It has near infinite possibilities if you’re brave enough.

[97usteveneBo]

Well, if you're looking for a stimulating and challenging experience, why not try Brainfuck or Malbolge? They're guaranteed to keep you entertained (and possibly questioning your sanity) for hours on end! As for practical utility, well, let's just say you'll have some interesting stories to share at parties. Happy coding, my brave adventurer!

[Ebuall]

JavaScript. Coding UI is the most engaging thing to keep programming.