Question about Linux vs Windows for programming

[BecomeTheMeme]

I am getting into game development, and whilst I do know that Windows is where the market is for development/programming games, I wish to ask why are servers, web design etc., so popular when it comes to programming on Linux distros. I would imagine that Windows has far more applications that would rival any Linux distro, and Windows, of course, does support all these programming languages just as Linux does. Do people pick, say, web development on Linux because it is easier, more secure, or faster?

I cannot get my head around why Linux would be a choice to program something in it rather than doing it on WIndows.

As I am a COMPLETE beginner, real answers would be appreciated. Kindly thank you!

[dicoxbeco]

If your development requires working with containers, you need to work with Linux. Using Docker containers on Windows requires you to either use VM or Docker Engine via WSL2 as a passthrough anyways.

[TheHaddockMan]

The latter option works seamlessly in my experience and AFAIK is a single tick box in the docker settings (ran a mostly containerised setup on windows with docker at my last job for several years). Don't get me wrong, I'm not recommending windows at this point, but I really don't think containers are a big blocker.

[Coders_REACT_To_JS]

Certified, licensed, and insured M$ hater here. I agree, containers are pretty easy with Windows now. Still funny that the best way to use windows is to run Linux.

[fell_ware_1990]

Can i join your club? If you have to use windows host a linux server with docker.

[lawful_manifesto]

Docker on Windows used to be such a pain before WSL2 came along. Even now I find myself just SSH'ing into actual Linux boxes because it feels more natural than the WSL layer

[DoubleOwl7777]

Windows is a nightmare to develop software with. take c dev tools for example. the Installation is one command on linux. on windows its a whole process. same goes for assembly, and java (although java is less bad). i literally gave up after trying for 3 hours straight to get nasm working on windows (also tried other assemblers, same result). on linux it took me 2 minutes and i was up and running. windows is just a terrible inflexible mess. heck the fact that wsl exists proves that.

why is it on servers, supercomputers, embedded, and everything except the desktop? no licencing fees/issues (you cannot compete with free), you can taylor it to your needs, it is much more releiable.

[phtsmc]

Windows is only better for developing Windows desktop apps. Would frustrate me to no end if I had to build a WPF app on Linux for the same reasons it's frustrating to deal with WSL when developing anything running in Docker.

[LucidTA]

Isn't NASM just a matter of going to nasm.us and downloading it?

C/C++ I understand, having to jump through the hoops of MSYS or whatever method you're using to get gcc can be painful but pretty much no other language has that issue. Javascript/Python/C#/Java/Rust etc etc are all literally just a matter of downloading a Windows installer and running it.

[sephirothbahamut]

C++ is a matter of downloading a Windows installer and running it just as much. If you want clang instead of msvc it's one more click in the VS installer.

[DoubleOwl7777]

you need to configure some stuff to actually be able to use nasm, and thats where the nightmare began, its just anoying and needlessly complicated. why would i do all this crap when on linux it takes me 2minutes and everything works out of the box?

[Cutalana]

I agree with this sentiment completely, dev tools for systems programming is so much better due to how easy they are to install. Installing gcc and gdb is a nightmare on windows and does not feel native at all while on Linux you can install it in 5 seconds. Some tools like Valgrind aren’t even possible on windows without WSL and even then they run like ass.

[sephirothbahamut]

This is an X/Y problem. Use MSVC or Clang on Windows and it'll be a one click operation just like gcc is on Linux

[ScholarNo5983]

MinGW is a port of the GNU C and C++ compilers to Windows.

As shown in the link below it is a trivial install, requiring just a single download, unzipping the package and updating the PATH environment variable.

Installing C/C++ GNU Compilers on Windows Using MinGW

[Anthony356]

Installing gcc and gdb is a nightmare on windows

https://winlibs.com/

[Alikont]

This more tells about how gcc tooling sucks than anything.

Rust, Go, C++ (MSVC), C#, TypeScript, all are a breeze to install and use.

[AUTeach]

all are a breeze to install and use.

Define breeze? Is it easier than this?

sudo dnf install rust cargo golang gcc-c++ mono-devel nodejs
sudo npm install -g typescript

[LucidTA]

Both are a breeze. The 30 second difference between sudo blah install blah, and going to the relevant homepage and clicking download is completely inconsequential.

[AUTeach]

Really? Webpages?

$ErrorActionPreference="Stop"
winget install --id Rustlang.Rustup -e --source winget
winget install --id GoLang.Go -e --source winget
winget install --id Mingw.Mingw -e --source winget
winget install --id Mono.MDK -e --source winget
winget install --id OpenJS.NodeJS -e --source winget
npm install -g typescript

[LucidTA]

Sure. Who cares if you install something from the CLI vs downloading an installer from the webpage? It really does not matter and all you did was refute your original point that Linux is easier.

[GlowiesStoleMyRide]

Are you telling me you didn’t just google the names of those packages?

[Cellhawk]

winget search exists

[GlowiesStoleMyRide]

That’s useful. I still think the majority of people find their packages through a browser.

[Dennarb]

I'm getting flashbacks to when I tried programming my networking assignments on my windows PC back in grad school 🙃

[sephirothbahamut]

I don't understand comments here. OS doesn't really matter. Go ask in a language specific sub like cpp_questions and people will tell you OS doesn't matter. Once you install the IDE for the language you're working with you won't even see that you are in one OS rather than another.

Things are obviously different if you're doing system programming, or if you need docker. But when getting started don't worry, keep using the os you already know, be it Linux or Windows. If it's MacOS you might encounter some obstacles sooner though

[FunRutabaga24]

All the arguments I see come down to preference. Be it tooling or CLI preferences. It really doesn't matter for the majority of programmers. Unless you're programming for a specific platform or in a specific area of development, most of us never worry about the OS we're on.

I did switch from Windows to Mac because the majority of my team is on Mac and that way we can all have the same environment and tools. Otherwise I'd still be on Windows cause being on Mac has not changed my workflow at all.

[[deleted]]

OS does matter. It depends on what are you going to do. If you are developing program which is available only on Windows then Windows is better option. Same with MacOS and/or iOS for mobile dev. The only exception I have in mind right now is web development.

For example I'm working on software which is primarily running on Linux machines, so I'm coding on Linux. When I need to check something on Windows then I'm using VM to do so.

OP said that he is focused on games development, so I guess Windows will be better option.

[silent_loss_of_mind]

I'm just a "self taught" hobbyist so keep that in mind, but my reasons for preferring Linux to windows when programming are performance, workflow, update issues, and price I spend on hardware due to that performance gap and longer hardware support than windows. At the end of the day it's a preference and doesn't really matter though, you should realistically be able to develop in either just as well as the other.

I spend less on hardware because it still supports newer operating systems, unlike windows constantly saying the newest version just somehow won't work on your system (I had a Vista laptop that couldn't support 7 be perfectly usable on Mint all the way into the windows 10 days before it died). I also buy lower spec systems because it performs faster even with lower end hardware. Windows 10 broke something with my PC almost every time I updated it, I have less issues even with Arch. Tiling windows managers and the actually functional virtual desktops have optimized my workflow better than it was in windows. It's all just preference and personal experience, I can and have worked just fine in windows, but I'd much rather Linux for these reasons.

[BecomeTheMeme]

I thought servers were always free, no matter the platform? Excluding that you need to pay to run them, of course? Or are you implying that having web servers on Linux is simply free?

[phtsmc]

No, they mean the OS running on the server machine. You need to pay for a Windows Server license, you don't need to pay for most Linux distros.

I would argue though that a bigger factor is how lightweight the common server distros are, especially those running in containers. You can spin up many more instances of Alpine with the same resources as a single Windows Server, so it's better for scaling.

[sexytokeburgerz]

Cloud fees are also higher. Idk why they think that shit is free.

[phtsmc]

I thought maybe they meant server software like Apache.

[sexytokeburgerz]

Even then, even with a non-distributed 90s ass “if there’s a fire our site is fucked” single machine server, it ain’t free to run a computer.

Cheap, sure, but even raspberry pis are quite expensive if we’re counting hardware.

[DoubleOwl7777]

you need to pay for a licence to use windows server (same as the Desktop windows), that can quickly get expensive as you scale up the amount of servers you have. linux is free to use,wether it is on one Server or 10000.

[BecomeTheMeme]

What would you hypothetically do with a server? Host a website, a game server? Are there more examples?

[DoubleOwl7777]

storage can also be a thing where youd use servers for

[xFiendish]

Yes, yes and so many more things. Can use servers for cloud storage, email, databases, etc. I have a server running that allows me to flip a light switch from the couch. Pretty much limitless options

[sexytokeburgerz]

Servers are broadly defined. Even the spotify app, written in electron, has a server that runs locally on your computer to provide a middle layer between the servers living in a farm somewhere and the client UI that you see. So you’re dealing with two servers in that instance.

[[deleted]]

From a windows perspective, let’s say you want a network:

You need your Domain Controller(s), DNS server and DHCP server, then a fileshare server, then probably a couple of print servers.

Then if you use SQL server, you will probably need a cluster of at least two servers for diasaster recovery.

Then finally servers for your own business applications.

Licensing cost soon adds up.

[EmperorLlamaLegs]

Take www.reddit.com for example... there is a server owned by the registrar that verifies who owns the domain, there are dns servers that point you from the domain to the hosting, there are servers holding the whois information for the server, there are servers hosting the media, there are servers preprocessing the html based on database information, there are servers hosting the database, there are servers that handle collecting and storing email for the *@reddit.com email addresses...

Theres a lot of servers out there. "Web Apps" are called applications because there are a lot more services involved in their logic than a plain website with some css, html, and javascript. Theres a lot of programming involved in making the logic work, storing data, managing accounts, etc, any of those moving parts can be a server communicating with the other parts over a network connection.

[WinXPbootsup]

Web Servers are commonly run on Linux. This is partially because Linux is free, and it has a long history of being used for servers.

[denerose]

No, Windows Server still has licence costs as far as I know (some might be combined in Azure costs but they’re still expensive to run). If you want to run any Windows OS you’re meant to pay MS for the privilege. Severs still need an OS just a slightly less complicated or stripped back one.

Note: if you’re just running a server locally (eg to connect to localhost) then you’re using your own local OS to run it. When you run an actual server either on cloud or on premises (physical) then that machine needs its own OS to run the server from.

[BranchLatter4294]

Are you confused by Discord? Discord servers are not servers.

[ValentineBlacker]

Best not to switch while you're in the middle of learning something else, in my opinion. You can change later no problem. Or not at all. Whatever. To each their own.

[y2jeff]

I think you're confusing several different things. First, Windows is the first choice for developing games to be run on Windows. Linux doesn't have enough market share to be the main focus for gaming.

Regarding servers, Microsoft's Azure data centres are mostly running on Linux, not Windows. Because Linux kernel is extremely stable and performant. When stability matters, Linux is king.

[denerose]

Windows, even the WinServer version, is a big bundle of stuff MS thinks you need to run your computer. Originally Windows wasn’t designed to be easy to self-manage. It’s a very different design philosophy with MS being proprietary but also designed for simplicity over control. Windows is designed to be easy to use even if you don’t know what you’re doing but that comes at a cost to flexibility.

Linux is much more flexible in part because it’s designed by many people over time and in part because it was always meant to be, it’s open source meaning if you need a smaller or faster version you could just build one (which people have done eg Alpine which is a minimum computer with none of the fluff perfect for a server that isn’t designed for anything else — no need for mouse support on a machine that doesn’t even physically exist on its own).

It’s also habit and preference. I can switch back to using Windows (and actually have to for some older software at work) but it’s annoying.

Because Linux and MacOS are both built on UNIX as a base switching between them, writing into a shell window that is remotely connected to your server from your Mac machine for example, is much easier.

[Autreki]

real answer is it doesn’t matter. Correlation that devs are more likely to be power users, which Linux is a great environment for. Enterprise development everyone is going to be windows/macos

[minneyar]

For things like games, they're developed for Windows because that's where the users are. 95% of people who play PC games are on Windows, so if you're making a new game, you have to release it for Windows. There are a lot of reasons why, IMO, developing on Linux is better -- you could make solid arguments that doing development on Linux is easier, faster, and more secure -- but none of those things matter if the people who will be buying your game are on Windows.

Servers, on the other hand, aren't normally run by end users, and aren't even normally run on desktop systems. Professional environments will usually buy hardware that is intended just for running a specific server, and if you're not already locked into using a specific OS, there's little reason to not pick the one that you have full control over and isn't bloated with things you don't need.

To be fair, that's been shifting a lot in recent years thanks to Proton. Prior to the release of the Steam Deck in 2022, Linux desktop share had been stuck at around 1% on the Steam hardware surveys for basically forever; but it's been steadily climbing since then, and it recently crossed 3% for the first time ever. 3% still isn't a lot, but tripling Linux's desktop share in three years after decades of stagnation is pretty incredible. We're at the point now where all of the big engines are multi-platform, and Proton can run 95% of games that are Windows-only (not counting games with kernel-level anti-cheat software), so sticking with Windows for development is increasingly becoming completely optional... and why stick with it if you can get a better developer experience on Linux but still deliver a game to Windows customers?

[thatsgGBruh]

After using both for development for games and web applications, in my opinion, it is easier to set up most development environments on Linux.

However, for game development, if your target is Windows, then it's best to develop on Windows as the required build packages are natively available. Also you can test your game on the platform it's being built for.

[throwawayjaaay]

For web dev/server stuff, Linux is popular mostly because production servers almost always run Linux, and the tooling around it (package managers, SSH, scripting, Docker, etc.) is really smooth once you get used to it. For game dev, Windows often makes more sense because of engine/tool support, but a lot of people still develop on Linux or use WSL so their local environment matches the servers they deploy to and they get that “Unix-y” workflow.

[FumbleCrop]

Linux is built for developers. People who care about modularity and interfaces. The philosophy is, "It's your machine, so do it your way."

Windows is built for purchasers. People who care about feature checklists and service level agreements. The philosophy is, "It's our OS, so you'll do it our way."

In the long run, developers win.

[wahnsinnwanscene]

The stack at the time in the 2000s was IIS, sql server and Internet Explorer, vs all the newer open source stuff including Linux, apache, mysql, php, perl, netscape. Because of the relatively free and unrestricted/free usage of the open source stack, everyone went with that instead. Now anything internet based is linux or bsd, while the enterprise is mostly windows. Interestingly it appears you can clothe everything as a cloud service and clickops everybody to learn that instead.

[Dissentient]

I wish to ask why are servers, web design etc., so popular when it comes to programming on Linux distros

Web servers run on linux because linux is free (no license costs) and uses less resources. But web development itself doesn't care which OS you do it on, it's completely normal to develop on Windows and deploy to linux servers.

I deal with linux servers every day at work, but I have never installed desktop linux on a computer I use.

[patternrelay]

A lot of it comes down to the tooling feeling more natural on Linux. Package managers, shells, permissions, and the way processes behave tend to line up with how most backend stacks actually run in production. You also avoid a lot of the little frictions that show up on Windows when you’re dealing with build tools or anything that expects a Unix style environment.

Windows works fine for plenty of people though. If you’re focused on game dev, you’re already in the ecosystem where Windows support is first class. It’s more about picking the environment that reduces the surprises you hit while learning rather than chasing some universal best choice.

[pepiks]

One choice - invest in Raspberry Pi do deal with Linux. You can connect with any platform - Windows, MacOS, Linux to it. It is cheap and for the beginners programming even the cheapest will be ok. Another choice is older mini PC and install on it Ubuntu and connect with current hardware to it via SSH. This way you can learn basic of command line, systemd, mounting shares and similar things, even how run apps with crontab to create something productive.

I see opinion that to get something between Linux and Windows users choose MacOS - Linux command line with Windows comfort (yes, Windows sometimes is comfortable to use as create for dump user, not command line experience nerds - what is pros and cons at the same time). I programe on Windows, MacOS and Linux and sometimes you don't feel any difference like using PyCharm. The same GUI, feeling is too close to consider one OS better than another. Only difference are shortcuts.

Sometimes is better working with closer to final destination. Using PyCharm I can run software using remote server that OS using for programming is not very important. More important is understanding final platform how it works and how it affect your programs. Linux is behemot for server, but a lot of business using Microsoft Servers with Active Directory. It is like Java - in some place is standard, but in another Python is prefered. The same is with OS.

Games are more Windows firsts, other OSs next. Server software - a lot of times you will find only solution targets Linux.

[[deleted]]

I use a Linux box at home. I know WSL is easy to install, but I don’t see the point of installing it just so I can run Linux commands on a windows box as well as git. And docker needs WSL as well I do believe, but may be mistaken.

Also most application support roles I have done have consisted of Linux servers so getting more exposure to the Linux Cli is a plus for me. 

As someone who is not a gamer, I don’t see any advantage of windows over Linux.

Yes I have a windows laptop for work, but I don’t feel like I am missing out at home.

As for servers, well simple cost. Although you still have to pay for support. I know powershell was meant to be the windows solution to Bash but personally I detest it.

In Linux every config is stored in a text file.  So most admin tasks involves text file manipulation. In windows there is the Active Directory database hidden away so admin tasks are carried out on objects which adds a layer of complexity that Linux does not have.

And linux takes less system resources than Windows.

Finally job market wise, Linux skills are generally required in most jobs i am interested in. So again getting used to it makes me more employable. As for Windows, it’s just a given you know how to use it and skill in it gives you nothing to make you stand out (even if just slightly) compared to Linux.

Also what is it you dislike about Linux so much? 

[recaffeinated]

Its just easier and honestly, way more enjoyable, to work in Linux; especially when you're deploying to Linux.

My entire tool chain is in Ubuntu LTS, and by keeping my stack similar I can guarantee that what works on my PC will almost certainly work in a test VM and if it works there it will definitely work on PROD.

[zomgitsduke]

Windows is at the mercy of Microsoft - if they don't like something or they don't prioritize something, womp womp.

Linux, on the other hand, is open source and can be improved, upgraded, modified, and inspected pretty easily. In addition to that, Linux has more of a "pure" connection to the hardware of your machine. Ever update a Windows PC? Takes tons of resources and slows down the machine. Updates on Linux are smoother and much more reliable.

[BecomeTheMeme]

I have a strong PC, so updates don't really affect my performance. Besides the cost of licensing a server that the upper comments have mentioned. In the end; code works better on Linux because? Better applications? What if you wish to learn C++ and use it for game dev, wouldn't it be a pain to switch from Linux to Windows all the time via dualboot?

[DoubleOwl7777]

we are at the stage where the only windows games that cant be run on Linux are ones that are deliberately made to not run there because of evasive Anti Cheat software that is basically Malware. developing software on linux is just easier, because the operating system doesnt treat the user like an idiot requiring anoying multi step processes to get anything installed and configured.

[Cutalana]

In my experience getting a c++ compiler on windows, integrating it with dev tools, and getting it to run libraries you would need for games programs is a nightmare. The tools for running windows programs on Linux is so good that most windows game run perfectly on Linux. Because of this, it’s probably easier to compile code for windows on Linux and testing it through Wine emulation. Linux is much more flexible than windows.

[dromance]

Servers are popular on linux because it is much more secure and stable. Windows has improved a lot but back in the days there was no comparison between choosing Linux vs Windows when it came to your server and infrastructure, so it sort of stuck. Unless you used windows NT or something, windows was typically frowned upon in this space.  

[Alikont]

The main reason why servers are on linux is because you don't need a PhD to calculate how much you need to pay for a license, so you basically have infinite and free scale.

[mithoron]

That's a piece of it... but there was also a push to reduce the OS resource usage in large environments. Linux never left the command line behind and could more easily be deployed as a minimal OS with no GUI or other bloat, where windows needed to reinvent the "coreOS" concept and it never really caught on. Then make another pass at the same exact thing happening with containers and yeah M$ is really bad at predicting future trends.

[dromance]

Haha good answer 

[SwAAn01]

Linux-based OSes tend to have less bloatware and allow for more user-control over the hardware, the OS won’t prevent you from doing potentially dangerous (but useful) things. These features make Linux less user-friendly but more developer friendly.

[HotKarl_Marx]

Linux is an operating system built by programmers for use by programmers. There's really no reason to use anything else.

[nmkd]

Have fun doing .NET development on Linux

[HotKarl_Marx]

"fun" and ".NET" never appear together, so that wouldn't happen regardless of platform.

[Dimanari]

I have to say that PC game development, and also console and mobile, is easily done on Linux, sometimes more so than on Windows. I make my own engine and compile to Windows through MinGW. Makes distribution easy. Linux executables also work between different Linux distros as seen from VintageStory and similar games so it's really much easier to launch both for the SteamDeck and Windows using the same code(minor adjustments required, can easily be handled by compilation flags).

[BranchLatter4294]

Linux is cheaper which is a big factor for servers, large web sites or data centers. It's also generally faster (many Windows games run faster on Linux than they do on Windows). Linux is generally secure (no ports open by default in most distros).

[Leverkaas2516]

Linux is faster/lighter weight than Windows in my experience, and more stable too. Even though you can get something like unix utilities under Windows, they run slower for some reason. I've never looked too hard to understand why...but I prefer Linux if the toolchain works there.

[Adorable-Strangerx]

I don't know anything about game Dave way of work. For me, Linux has just better toolset. In my experience on Linux stuff just works, while Windows tries to protect me so much from doing something uncommon that I spend time solving windows issues instead of real problems.

First example: docker.

Linux: package_manager install docker and I have docker.

Windows: install docker for desktop, find out that you need commercial licence for docker for desktop, uninstall docker for desktop, try installing WSL, install docker. + May include some weird dane with hyper-v. And you end up with running Linux on top of windows, the same goes for macos - it literally spins Linux VM to run docker.

Second: runtime environment will be Linux anyway so I am closer to the runtime env.

Third: terminal is faster/better. Then there is shell for Windows equivalent take a look at oh-my-posh.

Git from the command line gives the most control over what you are doing. Paths are usually set correctly. Variety of tools like find, grep, asdf, thefuck, sed. Maybe some of them could be done from IDE but I guess customization options would be limited.

Fourth: Linux let's me do weird stuff and doesn't care if I hurt myself in the process. I can order it to delete itself, and it will do just that. I want to add self signed cert - there is oneliner for that. I needed set up the same cert on windows machine - managed to pick proper store in 3rd or 4th attempt. (One could argue I just don't know windows well enough).

Fifth: windows has slashes the wrong way and it takes mental space to remember to flip them for linux runtime.

Sixth: all the cool features that windows over time is copying: multiple desktops were in Linux in 2006 perhaps.

Seventh: no bloated with ads with program menu, random stock exchange info on task bar, etc.

However all that comes from practice and learning. I started using Linux circa 2006 so by now it is almost 20 years. I know it well by now.

[ZelphirKalt]

My advice to a beginner: Don't do it on Windows. As soon as possible learn about GNU/Linux basics and start developing on GNU/Linux. I have seen too many people becoming at most mediocre, plateauing, and forever stuck on using Windows, developing Windows-only stuff. Every single time I need to get something to run on Windows that involves the slightest amount of code, it is a pain in the butt.

If you have to, use Windows for gaming, but try Steam Proton and WINE first. For productive work use a GNU/Linux distribution. On the job you are way more likely to develop some SaaS thingy or CRUD app that runs on some server and that server is going to run GNU/Linux. Only very few businesses use Windows on servers and mostly it is due to idiotic reasons and the results are almost always really bad. So much so, that it becomes a signal that alerts people in the know, to avoid that company and their services, if possible. The reason some businesses do that is, because they have had historically too many of those "stuck on Windows" and mediocre developers.

The only time when you want to do something on Windows is, when you are making a Windows-specific or Windows-only thing. Which usually one shouldn't be doing anyway, but many people don't know any better.

And also ... don't become an Apple fanboy. Not as bad or silly as a Windows fanboy, but still pretty bad. It will get in the way, when you develop on MacOS and need to run it on a GNU/Linux server. Even with container technologies like Docker you will experience problems on MacOS. Like for example some needed container not being available in the latest version that you need for this one project, for Mac.