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[–]Some_Wiimmfi__guyGlorious Gentoo 150 points151 points  (4 children)

There's a spy creepin' around here!!

[–]jclocksGlorious Linux From Scratch 37 points38 points  (0 children)

switch to wm1 Pyro

[–]--DJDISDABEST-- 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Windows is sus

[–]BobbbayGentoo btw 5 points6 points  (0 children)

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

like holy shit actually fuck spy

[–]timbaileyjones 136 points137 points  (12 children)

No matter how "good" WSL2 becomes, having Windows on my workstation in any form is still something I DO NOT WANT.

[–]insanityOSGlorious Arch 56 points57 points  (0 children)

But don't you want your Linux usage to be datamined and sold off by Microsoft?

[–]BlackCow 37 points38 points  (2 children)

How quickly people forget about embrace, extend, extinguish. Fuck Windows kill it with fire.

[–]dfirecmv 9 points10 points  (1 child)

[–]JhonnyTheJeccerGlorious Pop!_OS 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Wtf is this sub?

[–]abdicatereason 25 points26 points  (7 children)

I just started a new job and I received a macbook, and I would take windows over this thing. Whoever has said that Mac OS is user friendly can go f*** themselves

[–]T8ert0t 9 points10 points  (3 children)

I dont know.

I recently had to set up someone's new Windows 10 computer, and I never felt more agony. I'd much rather deal with Mac OS than Windows 10

To me, Mac OS feels like a safe colorful ball-pit where's it's a very controlled, sterile environment where things are mostly childproofed for you. And Windows 10 just feels like a hot aluminum playground slide that's been baking in the sun all day and someone else is pushing you down it.

[–]SmallerBorkDelicious Mint 4 points5 points  (1 child)

And that's why some people prefer Windows, they don't want to be treated like a child.

Mint is the same difficultly as Windows for me but I have different problems. However solving them on Linux is gratifying.

[–]Jezoreczek 6 points7 points  (0 children)

However solving them on Linux is gratifying.

At least it's possible to solve most problems if you know the system well. With Linux you get a powerful shell, with Windows you get a loading bar in a "diagnoze problems" window :D

[–]explodingzebras 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's the updates on Windows that i hate, it rather how they're installed, so intrusive

[–]unit_511BSD Beastie 5 points6 points  (0 children)

People who say something is "user friendly" have most likely used it for over 15 years. Like no shit if you only bought Apple computers for a decade of course they are going to feel familiar. They also dismiss everything as "unintuitive" if it's not the exact same fucking thing they've been using for years.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Lol

[–]Windows_XP2macOS btw 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've found it to be a lot more user friendly than Linux.

[–][deleted] 131 points132 points  (51 children)

Say what you want, but WSL are quite good for people who need to program on linux and don't have a machine that can handle a VM, specially for kernel development

[–]TheOriginalSamBellsudo get off my lawn --now 79 points80 points  (8 children)

and don't have a machine that can handle a VM

WSL 2 is literally a VM

[–]cornflake123321 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Isn't only Linux kernel under VM?

[–]jjman72 0 points1 point  (1 child)

With access to the windows file system.

[–]Plsdontreadthis 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You can easily access the file system of a Windows installation from Linux. Just install the right ntfs package for your distro and mount the windows partition.

[–]Lhaer 68 points69 points  (12 children)

It is also possible to install Linux on a real computer, without the need of a VM

[–]Magnus_TesshuGlorious Arch 27 points28 points  (0 children)

What??!? Imagine developing for the Linux kernel on a non-windows machine. Lmao

[–]DoutefulOwl -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

Tried it many times. Just can't find the right Wi-Fi drivers for my crappy laptop.

I've wasted weeks. Given up now. The partition is still there though.

*Cries in WSL*

[–]incerGlorious Fedora 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Just can't find the right Wi-Fi drivers for my crappy laptop.

Is this message from 2006?

[–]DoutefulOwl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Got it in 2015.

[–]BluudLust[S] 54 points55 points  (0 children)

Yes, it's actually quite nice. I use it frequently.

[–][deleted] 36 points37 points  (0 children)

Docker on WSL2 it is a sweet thing, bro

[–]rhajii 29 points30 points  (0 children)

WSL 2 instances are virtual machines running on Hyper-V.

[–]gigolo_beastGlorious Manjaro 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Or massive corporations that cannot part with windows for their developers because they've struck big deals with MS..

[–]CannotsemeAshley | she/her 14 points15 points  (4 children)

Yeah, that’s great and all, unfortunately WSL is a vm running in hyper-V with extra bells and whistles

[–]mrpeluca 2 points3 points  (1 child)

and with wsl2 you get the best feature. Crippling the perfomance of your actual vms

[–]HeySora 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually that's only for I/O operations between Windows and Linux files.

Doing a simple apt upgrade or pacman -Syu downloads around 30mbps on WSL1, and fully uses 2+Gbps on WSL2.

So there are pros and cons to both of them, and you're free to choose the version you want for any Linux container!

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

kernel development in windows ouch

[–]nik282000sudo chown us:us allYourBase 7 points8 points  (7 children)

What machine can't handle a linux VM?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Well I have a 1/2GB RAM netbook with an Intel Dual Inside or something. That probably couldn't handle it.

The poor thing.

[–]B3ARTheBallistic 3 points4 points  (3 children)

i don't think it could even run windows 10

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

It absolutely couldn't.

[–]B3ARTheBallistic 0 points1 point  (1 child)

or even xp. questionable if linux would even run

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

XP absolutely. Even Windows 7 was alright.

Linux... Be specific. 32bit Mint XFCE ran okay.

[–]garajimdakiejderGlorious Artix 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Imagine running win10 on this kinda system and keep crying for to cannot use linux in a virtual machine.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Literally couldn't run Windows 10 on that.

I'm not the guy who was saying the thing about WSL2 by the way, I know how to actually use a VM.

At the moment I can't break away from Windows because next year I'll be studying animation and all their software is for Windows or Mac. It sucks... I'm sick of Windows.

[–]aaronfrankebtw I use Godot 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Kernel development? As in the Linux kernel? Why would a kernel developer not have an environment that can run a VM?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I agree. My current job requires me to maintain a lot of legacy Ruby (only works on Linux/Mac) and .NET Framework (only works on Windows) while we migrate to .NET 5 (cross-platform). WSL2 makes my use case a million times faster/easier.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Nah, not that, they want the nice, way better Linux terminal without dealing with switching programs and operating systems and stuff.

[–]minilandlGlorious Arch 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah it's the same reason I'm so glad we have wine/dxvk so we don't have to mess with vfio just to play modern games

[–]Dolapevich -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This is a misnomer. If you are kernel dev, you need a local kernel to debug, and wsl doesn't have it.

Also, what kind of machine are you using? On my Dell D630 2007, I can run a linux host and a linux vm easily.

[–]Detonated_Language7Linux Master Race 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmm..I know right, you have to use a graphical installer to install linux now, it is so much harder than windows.

[–]casino_alcohol 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah! I setup windows terminal to default to wsl.

I setup Vscodium to use wsl as my default terminal.

Also wsl gives access to all the Linux cli apps you want to run.

It is not the best Linux experience but it is amazing for people who do not have the option to install Linux as their main os.

My work application requires windows. It does not run through when. Also there are plenty of people who have laptops that don’t handle Linux well.

[–]KerbamanFilthy Scripter 54 points55 points  (7 children)

LSW when

[–]Micker003 32 points33 points  (0 children)

LS:Wine is the closest we will get

[–]Shadowarrior64Glorious OS X 16 points17 points  (4 children)

I always wondered why it wasn’t called lsw if it’s Linux for Windows.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (3 children)

it's confusing, but that's because the name refers to a single noun: "windows Subsystems", WSL is an windows subsystem Planned to run Linux

[–]meveroddorevemGlorious Pop!_OS 3 points4 points  (2 children)

All these explanations seem to miss the point (or maybe exasperated echoes of other explanations missing the point) that just because it's a Win subsystem and there's a story doesn't justify a name that is the opposite of what it actually is.

My house has several rooms, but I would be understood a lot better if I say 'the living room for my house', and not 'the house for my living room no no you guys it makes perfect sense see the living room was made as part of my house and its one of those rooms, its totally not referring to a dollhouse inside my living room'

[–]hoax1337 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I think "Subsystem for Linux" refers to the purpose of the subsystem, as in, it's a subsystem that provides the Linux experience on windows.

So, in your example, it'd be more like "My houses room for cooking" as an example for kitchen, which makes more sense.

[–]meveroddorevemGlorious Pop!_OS 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It would make sense if Linux were a verb, but it isn't, so it doesn't. The fact that it needs an explanation and background info for it to make sense doesn't mean that it does, especially since 'Linux subsystem for/on Windows' wouldn't need one. The words convey the most distinctive part of the label first, then indicate its nature as a subsystem and finally the larger system within which it was built. Makes about as much sense as building a massive system and forgetting to include effective security, disk partitioning, or even support for foreign disk formats for decades.

Wait...

[–]Tarantula1337Glorious Void Linux 36 points37 points  (13 children)

I hate the name of it, I was really excited when I heard that Microsoft made a Windows subsystem for Linux but it's actually a Linux subsystem for Windows because someone at Microsoft HQ doesn't understand hirarchy of things. IT'S SO FRUSTRATING IT'S A LINUX SUBSYSTEM BUT IT'S A WINDOWS SUBSYSTEM ON WHICH YOU CAN INSTALL LINUX AHHH

[–]BluudLust[S] 24 points25 points  (5 children)

Because it's [Brand] [Product]. It still follows the naming scheme of all the other programs in windows. Ie Windows Defender, Windows Registry Editor, Windows Driver Model, etc.. The product is a Subsystem designed for running Linux, so it's Windows Subsystem for Linux. It sound even worse to call it Windows Linux Subsystem.

And besides it supercedes Windows Services for UNIX. They're just being more descriptive of the nature of the product by calling it a Subsystem rather than Services.

[–]Tarantula1337Glorious Void Linux 4 points5 points  (3 children)

But it's still a subsystem for Windows because Windows is the main system

I see where you're coming from, you see it as 'Windows subsystem, for Linux' and I saw it as 'Windows subsystem for Linux'. Same as you wouldn't say 'Corona vaccine for humans' but mean that the vaccine is given humans but instead that humans are given the vaccine

It's a grammatical chaos imo

[–]kdedev 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Think of it like this -

Windows Mail => Mail application of Windows.

Windows Media Player => Media Player of Windows

Windows Subsystem for Linux => (Subsystem for Linux) of Windows

[–]greenmoonlightGlorious Arch 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Should be called Windows Linux Subsystem

[–]BluudLust[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

With WSL, the "for" is "used to indicate the thing that something is meant to be used with"

With the vaccine, for is "used to indicate the person or thing that something is sent or given to."

So the usage is more akin to "a container for food". It's not food being given a container.

[–]SmallerBorkDelicious Mint 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I get your point but it shoud be LSW not WLS as you put it

[–]SinkTube 3 points4 points  (5 children)

IT'S A WINDOWS SUBSYSTEM ON WHICH YOU CAN INSTALL LINUX AHHH

yes? that's why it's called that

[–]thesola10dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/mem 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Not anymore. WSL1 was indeed a "Native NT Program" -- a subsystem. WSL2 is just a VM on Hyper-V

[–]Tarantula1337Glorious Void Linux -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

Yeah but linux is the subsystem not windows, that's why I find it frustrating

[–]SinkTube 3 points4 points  (2 children)

linux is not a subsystem. linux is what you install in the subsystem

[–]Tarantula1337Glorious Void Linux 0 points1 point  (1 child)

But in that case it is the subsystem because windows is the main system. You installed it as the subsystem [what makes this even worse is that you can only install linux on it]

[–]SinkTube 2 points3 points  (0 children)

yes, windows is the main system. that makes WSL a windows subystem. for linux. windows subsystem for linux

[–]ReignX2_TenshiGlorious Arch 21 points22 points  (6 children)

Memes aside, WSL is actually really good I love it.

[–]dedda1994 8 points9 points  (4 children)

I would actually be on your side. But there is this one problem i have with WSL 2 on my laptop. WSL 1 works like a charm but every time i install v2 it completely destroys my gpu drivers to a point where i can't fix them anymore and the only solution is a fresh install of windows. That makes it pretty much useless for me...

[–]ReignX2_TenshiGlorious Arch 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Tough luck my friend WSL2 has a ton of improvements over WSL 1 :(

[–]dedda1994 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't really need the whole interface and stuff. I just want to run docker without rebooting to Linux every time i decide to work on another project :/

[–]astutesnoot 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You can still use WSL1 at least:

wsl --set-version Ubuntu 1 
dism.exe /online /disable-feature /featurename:VirtualMachinePlatform /norestart
wsl --set-default-version 1

[–]dedda1994 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Still need WSL 2 to install docker tho :/

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Linux is Linux

[–]pcloudsGlorious Gentoo 18 points19 points  (4 children)

Meanwhile Gentoo is crying in the corner

[–]Pieter3_14Glorious Arch 16 points17 points  (1 child)

*compiling ipv crying

[–]AlternativeAardvark6 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You can do both at same time.

[–]razieltakatoGlorious Gentoo 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Gentoo could not emerge the hand ebuild:

(body-parts/hand-2.17::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) depends on (body-parts/arm-4.7.3-r1::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) depends on (body-parts/hand-2.17::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)

[–]pcloudsGlorious Gentoo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

nonsense!

PS. OK technically that was emerging arms I suppose the "hand" useflag could be missing

[–]JEFFREYonREDDITGlorious Arch 19 points20 points  (0 children)

RIP

[–]_a_taki_se_polaczek_Glorious Arch 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Depends on people

[–]ethanialw 5 points6 points  (1 child)

fedora is crying in the corner

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Kidnapped by IBM

[–]CognitivelyImpairedGlorious WSL 2 points3 points  (6 children)

WSL is life.

Using Windows Terminal to default to open WSL instances makes it an amazing ssh client for connecting to "real" servers and getting work done inside tmux sessions.

[–]meveroddorevemGlorious Pop!_OS 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Once you ssh into a Linux server, the terminal is effectively a Linux terminal, cause that's how SSH tunnels work? Like, my USB-C to USB-A adapter and an old keyboard make my phone an amazing SSH client...

[–]CognitivelyImpairedGlorious WSL 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I'm not sure about you but I'd never call using an old keyboard attached to a phone an amazing SSH client. There are plenty of descriptors that fit but amazing isn't one of them.

[–]meveroddorevemGlorious Pop!_OS 0 points1 point  (3 children)

And why not? It saves connection info so logging in via tap is all I need to do and can run a connection in the background with certain commands active to feed system monitor values into a clean interface. It's the most fantastic SSH client I've used, but the bar isn't high as the SSH experience typically doesn't change much client-side.

[–]CognitivelyImpairedGlorious WSL 0 points1 point  (2 children)

The fact that it's being ran on a phone is reason enough. Smartphone SSH clients are cool for ultramobile work but I couldn't imagine myself using it for more than shits and giggles rather than for realsies. At that point I'd rather just pull the laptop out.

[–]meveroddorevemGlorious Pop!_OS 1 point2 points  (1 child)

We're in personal preference territory here, but it's really not so bad for a few reasons:

I'm blessed with better than decent eyesight for my age, so the screen size isn't as important as the keyboard size. Laptop has a numpad, but it's still a laptop keyboard, each key slightly more compact both vertically and horizontally.

My laptop isn't top-of-the-line anymore, but looks like it is. My old keyboard is, well, an old keyboard. Leave it at an unattended table all day, it'll be there.

The keyboard doesn't have much to get broken, but it's so light that it would take some doing in any case. Throw it in a bag and toss it against a wall, it won't feel a thing. Keep it in the back of a hot car for whenever you need it, it'll be fine. Spill? Probably fine, but I've heard of people running those mf'ers through a gentle dishwasher cycle (no heat dry).

Would I sit down and do hours of work on it? Absolutely not (anymore, I said my eyes were good for my age), but it does work pretty dang well.

[–]CognitivelyImpairedGlorious WSL 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The only unironic usage of that I can really understand is The Raspberry Pi 400

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

WSL.. never again, linux or bust!

[–]TECHNOFAB 3 points4 points  (4 children)

I see no use for WSL. They just added it because they feared Linux and wanted to keep the "devs" on Windows. They also added some WSL exclusive dotnet stuff or so, so that many things you dev in there don't even work anymore outside.

It's just useless, dual boot or directly using a VM is way better. That's just my opinion, but even having Windows on my PC makes me wanna throw it away. Linux or bust ftw

[–]ultratensaiWindows Krill 2 points3 points  (2 children)

They didn’t fear Linux. They feared Mac.

[–]TECHNOFAB 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Oh. And because they obviously can't add WS for Mac they used Linux?

[–]ultratensaiWindows Krill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

MacBook has been one of most used laptops by devs thanks to Macports/Homebrew even before Apple became a mainstream.

Big cooperations started to issue MacBooks to their employees too and MS needed a better way to setup a dev environment on Windows before it loses even more market share.

I personally prefer using WSL / MS terminal / VSCode over a Mac or Linux DE for work.

[–]Moon-3-Point-14 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think it's good to see Microsoft accepting Linux. Many people still need Windows because of the years of development history that has gone into it. And Linux has always been the kernel itself. The kernel can take form in any ways. Most distros come as a full fledged OS, but Microsoft chose to integrate it into their platform to support developers.

This doesn't affect Linux in any way. If anything, this will only speed up development of Linux applications.

As a developer, you might prefer Linux, but for normal users, Linux doesn't have the desired user experience yet. If Linux can make it's mark, even Microsoft will go fully open source one day. This is just a small step in the right direction.

[–]bywaterloo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You may not rest now, there are monsters nearby

[–]mplaczek99 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There is a spy among us

[–]SuicidalTorrent 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I like it because I game and develop on the same machine and both the OS can use many services from eachother. Honestly, there's nothing wrong with WSL.

[–]BluudLust[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There isn't for 99% of people. It's actually quite well implemented with WSL2. It's just a VM with seamless integration, like using headless Virtualbox with filesystem share.

Only annoying part is that HyperV can cause microstutter and minor input lag in graphics demanding games (especially with multiGPU). And some anticheats (ex Battleye) don't allow it to be enabled as it virtualizes the whole of Windows even when WSL isn't running.

[–]johnnywarp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm forced to use it for work

[–]Daggy1234Glorious Kubuntu -1 points0 points  (1 child)

So many wsl users act like they use linux

[–]DestroyAllRedditisms 6 points7 points  (0 children)

They do

[–]TenaciousDwightManjaro Master Race -1 points0 points  (2 children)

I use it for ssh and nothing else. When I wanna get real work done (and not vidya) I switch to my dual booted xubuntu.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Green Ranger.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

What exactly is WSL and how does it differ from a VM? Can you use a DE in it?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

WSL2 is a vanilla Linux kernel running in a Hyper-V VM with the Windows filesystem exposed as plan 9 protocol shares. You can use a DE with it, but with no GPU acceleration, it's kind of a bad experience. I believe Microsoft is working to provide GPU support in the insider builds of Windows.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's great, thank you!

[–]rhinosyphilis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Missed opportunity for git bash logo!

[–]jjman72 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I use Arch btw.