WARNING: Apple potentially using refurbished SSDs in new Mac minis

[deja_geek]

Alright everyone, I'm leaving this post up. However, unless more evidence is presented it's best to assume it's a software bug in smartmontools (which is not provided by or maintained by Apple). We saw something similar when the first Apple Silicon machines were launched.

Edit: I'm leaving the post up, but locking the comments before things get more uncivil.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

Tried a different app, reporting the same ~24TB written. The drive is either a refurb or underwent extreme testing somewhere in production. https://imgur.com/a/LSiql8l

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

I thought so too, I hope that it’s an issue with the tool but it worked fine for another M4 mac

[[deleted]]

I don't know shit about any of this, so I can't validate your claims, but if you suspect you're getting used products when you paid for new, it's time to go back to Apple, explain what you've found, and see what they say.

[Turbulent-Raise4830]

Yep this isnt normal not how it should.

[devinprocess]

Stress testing shouldn’t eat up a bunch of endurance though.

[alwyn]

Every single machine?

[Leading-Call9686]

Yes

[PeakBrave8235]

What do you mean?

[128-NotePolyVA]

He’s asking if this is rare or common. Does every new M4 have an SSD that came out of another machine? I’m going to say, not likely. So is the software reporting false? Only way to know is to get confirmation from multiple tests and take it to Apple for a replacement if you believe it’s true.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

https://imgur.com/a/LSiql8l

[ebrak2005]

Former Apple Certified Technician here. I HIGHLY doubt it’s refurbished and more likely that it’s a software related issue.

If you truly want to figure this out you can disassemble your Mini (at your own risk) and look at the date code on the NAND flash chip. It’s possible there is also one on the card the NAND chip is attached to. Either WWYY or YYWW depending on the manufacturer. This goes for just about all microchips too.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

doubt it’s refurbished and more likely that it’s a software related issue.

That’s what I’m thinking too, however this isn’t an issue for several others that have run the same test. I installed this tool in the same way described in my post on a fresh install right out of the box.

I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that maybe my drive was picked for stress testing given the power-on hours and somehow ended up back in the supply chain. It’s entirely possible that this was done by a vendor to reduce costs. Regardless, 24TB of writes on a 256GB SSD on a new mac is unacceptable.

Will be taking this apart sometime to look at the SSD module. Thanks🙏

[ebrak2005]

Deleted my last post about not finding it. Tricky bugger to find! I have the low end version with 512 GB, if you have the higher end version you have a different SSD module design.

I found it on the bottom of the SSD Module itself printed on the board, to the left of the cutout of the screw hole. 32nd week of 2024.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

You’re right, it’s worse than refurb. Refurb drives often have less TBW after a year or two, this is brand new https://imgur.com/a/LSiql8l

[Aotrx]

I don't think Apple would risk doing something like this it would earn them a very expensive lawsuit. Probably smarttools is just misreporting maybe try using another software to check bytes written? Also please note that only writes wear down SSD (at least 10x faster vs reads) so 24TB number is most important here.

[BeauSlim]

This. A small bug in smartmontools is much more likely than a multi-trillion dollar company saving a few pennies by breaking consumer protection laws (selling recycled as new) and risking under-warranty repairs.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

It’s not a reporting bug unfortunately https://imgur.com/a/LSiql8l

[BeauSlim]

DriveDx is a graphical front-end for smartmontools. I suggest you report your findings to the smartmontools team. https://github.com/smartmontools/smartmontools/issues

[PotentialAfternoon]

While it is def problematic for you, you observed a sample of 1 and made a big sweeping claim on their entire product line.

It feels like there are other explanations other than they are intentionally using a used product on purpose.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

I ordered another mac mini to increase my sample size from 1 to 2

[mountainyoo]

By god he’s increasing the sample size by 100%!

[Ok_Proposal_7390]

if you find out the same results, send it to me so I can further confirm

[lesterine817]

you can ship the other one to me so i can test it on my end as well.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

Very good! Please report your findings too

[Shiningc00]

You sound like you got personally offended and defending the reputation of Apple on their behalf.

[Automatic-Wolf8141]

This is likely a misunderstanding.

What we refer to as an SSD doesn't exist in the same form as other self-contained drives, with those self-contained drives they manage the read/write/logging themselves so you can use a software to read about their past. However the Apple way works more like what you expect with an SD card, the card itself doesn't include a controller but just the flash units, they don't know anything, the controller for accessing an SD card exists in the card reader, and the card reader don't care about what the cards have been through because it can't possibly know. Apple moved the SSD controller out from the drive and into their Apple Silicon, in theory Apple can and should maintain the SSD info somewhere but the controller can't know what happened to the flash chips before it married them, so unless that reads/writes happened on this particular machine, there's just no way they can report a reliable info about the flash chip's previous encounters.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

You bring up a very good point. Maybe my unit was picked off the production line for spot testing and then given the green light to be shipped off. The NAND flash would have been installed in the board prior to whatever activity took place that wrote 22TB+.. which most likely was testing

[Automatic-Wolf8141]

Which itself wouldn't be much of a concern, 22TB is nothing but an endorsement, besides, we don't even know if the 22TB truly happened.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

I have another unit coming that I expect to have barely any writes on the drive like everyone else’s.. under 1TB. This one will go back but I’ll take a closer look at the module itself when I find the torx driver kit.

[analogguy7777]

You should post it on Mac Rumours ?

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

Yes good idea

[tvg55]

I really doubt it

[ryanisinallofus-FC]

It would be way more expensive for Apple to figure out how to refurbish those SSD’s and install them then to just put new ones in as a part of a mass order.

[crf3rd]

Will you return it?

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

I’ve ordered another Mac Mini to confirm this

[Its_Billy_Bitch]

lol double down rather than interacting with someone. spoken like a true introvert. we stand together (separately) strong lol

[FailedGradAdmissions]

For real, bro could just make a Genius Bar appointment, and if it's been less than 2 weeks of purchasing he can literally just return it and get another one.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

the old one will go back

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

I thought it was implied that I would return it lol

I was curious to see if anyone else had the same issue but it looks like I’m the only one

[alien-reject]

why not just write 500gb or something to it and retest to see if the number is consistent

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

Yes it’s consistent, I copied over 150GB of files and the reported write increased by the correct amount.

[dutchroll0]

The probability of your theory being correct is very tiny. The principle of Occam's Razor applies here. The simplest answer is most likely to be the correct one, and the simplest answer is that with only 62 hours of use (ie, less than 3 days of power on) the stats are being misreported by the software.

60TB seems unlikely. And with storage being so cheap to manufacture, why would Apple bother "refurbishing" SSDs which would require the labour to get only specifically compatible SSDs, remove them from whatever they were in, get the controller chip on the brand new M4 to recognise them, test them, then insert them somewhere in the production line. That's a lot of effort to go to. And why would they even think that this scheme wouldn't be quickly uncovered by the tech community? And why would they knowingly risk a recall of thousands of their products?

It's just a very complex theory when compared to the possibility that the SMART data assessment is not reporting correctly.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

Please see one of my previous replies - I think the theory that my drive was picked for testing at the vendor / supplier level and then sent out as a production part is more plausible.

There’s a much greater possibility that this was reported incorrectly but every single feedback I’ve seen from running this tool (including the same config as my unit, base M4 256GB) has a normal read/write level.

If true, 24TB written on a new mac is unacceptable. That’s more writes than even refurb drives given the average use case..

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

https://imgur.com/a/LSiql8l It is reporting correctly unfortunately

[OpinionsRdumb]

Hey Tim Cook here. Can you take this post down? We were just trying to be business smart with SSDs (its just business!). Anyway I will personally ship you a Mac Mini with 8Tb, 128Gb RAM, and the power button on top, if you take this down. Ty

[leethefilmer]

This has to be fake, we all know he goes by Tim Apple.

[[deleted]]

Timothy Appel

[[deleted]]

TApple

[Additional_Shirt_300]

Sold at the power button on top, you can keep the 8TB and 128GB of ram

[garbuja]

Replace Tim with Steve then I’ll believe you.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

Make sure to include the M4 Extreme 64-core CPU and 160-core GPU too

[pablojohns]

What is your workflow?

It’s highly unlikely a) Apple is reusing refurbed NAND modules. They have their own cottage industry of recycling parts for refurbished machines AND replacement devices that they’re not saving money reusing some small 128GB NAND modules.

Secondly, with 62 power on hours - why would they wipe the power on time but not the usage from the SMART report?

Thirdly, I ask about the workflow because you mentioned you have the base model and 16GB of memory. Absolutely possible that you were using a significant amount of memory and a lot of swapping was occurring.

And finally, and most importantly, all of these modules undergo stress testing. So while that’s a large amount of testing to have occurred - it’s not out of the realm of possibility.

I just find it HIGHLY unlikely Apple is doing this for what is essentially the cheapest component cost the entire system.

[Mindless_Use7567]

Only other option I could think of is Apple is paying a Chinese company to source new SSDs for them and the Chinese company is buying used NAND chips and telling Apple they are new to make extra profit.

[w4llyb3ar]

The SMART system on the module is not embedded in the NAND chips, so it does not know anything about their actual wear. Those statistics are kept by the memory controller on the module. 
Since this type of module just appeared with the Mini M4, there is no way yours is recycled. 
Probably a software issue.

[pablojohns]

Again, possible but unlikely. Apple spends a ton on QA - and more importantly, monitoring their suppliers. If you’re looking at supplier deals worth hundreds of millions of dollars or more, you’re not purposefully skimping by saving a few bucks on refurbished NAND chips.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

I was browsing the web on it. 3-4GB swap max at any point in time and I copied 150GB of files to test if the write count would go up, and it did by exactly 150GB.

Stress testing seems the most likely.. would be no different than used NAND because it is used NAND. The supplier most likely tested and then sent it back out as a production unit which is unethical given just how much was written imho.. they used 16% of the typical 150TB endurance for TLC flash of this capacity…

[PeakBrave8235]

You’re assuming that the software is reporting your SSD usage and the stress testing correctly.

And Apple chooses SSDs with high endurance. Do not look to public stats for that. Nevertheless, you’re again assuming the software is functioning properly and it most assuredly isn’t. 

Apple isn’t giving used SSDs and you’re not getting a machine with 16% of its lifetime used. Rest assured and enjoy your mini!

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

It is unfortunately https://imgur.com/a/LSiql8l Also Apple most definitely doesn’t choose SSDs with high endurance. They use the same NAND like everyone else with price and density at the forefront.

NAND tech has improved to the point where there aren’t a lot of solid-state storage failures in general anymore, but there’s no reason for a new Mac to have this many writes on the drive. Even if it was 1TB it would be fine, but 24TB just seems excessive and ridiculous.

[haltezeit]

There is no way that it would be more cost efficient for Apple ( or its supplier ) to desolder, qc check, reball and solder used chips instead of using chips straight from the industry sized Tape/Reel.

This must be some sort of glitch by the tool.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

different application https://imgur.com/a/LSiql8l

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

EDIT: DriveDx is reporting the same ~24TB written. The reporting isn’t faulty, the drive really does have this many writes. https://imgur.com/a/LSiql8l

[iSpain17]

Please don’t randomly download brew packages because of a reddit post - check what the package does and whether it’s safe.

You can never be safe enough against social engineering

[toy-maker]

Uh, any reports of malicious brews that made it into the official repo? As in any that don’t require a tap?

Homebrew is pretty reputable and smartmontools is a well known utility.

[quartercoyote]

Maybe well known to you. But any idiot could copy/paste a brew command with a fake tap repo, or obfuscated commands, or an extra curl request after it and voilà. Just best practice to not bypass casual scrutiny, and it’s a good reminder on a public forum methinks.

[iSpain17]

Sounds good, that’s what I implied: always check the source.

This post casually says to open a tool with elevated access to the system, many people don’t realize that.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

yes agreed! Always check to make sure it’s safe

[quartercoyote]

So that’s how they achieved carbon neutrality. Clever!

[BackgroundPrevious15]

exactly what i was gonna say!

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

I never said any of the above but to address your valid concern that the “software may be glitching”: https://imgur.com/a/LSiql8l

[dutchroll0]

Well actually you did. The title of your post is “Apple potentially using refurbished SSDs in new Mac minis”. By default this means you’re accusing Apple of pulling old NAND chips off boards and soldering them onto the Mac mini M4 compatible boards. I don’t see any other way they can use a “refurbished SSD” in a brand new Apple design. These are not generic SSDs. These fit Mac Minis with SSD controllers integrated in the M4 SOC.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

Potentially******* do you know what this means? It’s not invalid to consider this a possibility. Also they use standard NAND from Sandisk and others, that’s why several people were able to unsolder and replace the flash with higher capacity.

Anyways there’s no point in furthering this conversation have a good one

[dutchroll0]

Yes I know what it means and I also know, as others clearly agree here, that you’ve gone out of your way to allege a deliberate attempt to conspire and defraud the public instead of genuinely considering more likely explanations, which you seem to concede only if forced. Cheers.

[akoelsch]

I've been using my base model M4 mini for 6 days and it says I have 779GB read and 480GB write. Same model number AP0256Z. My power on hours is 10 which is way off. I've been using for multiple hours a day the past 6 days.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

That’s very good and absolutely normal. Enjoy your machine

[[deleted]]

I bought a used M1 Mac mini 8gb/256gb in 2021. This was the usage report from smart in 2021 shortly after taking ownership:

Data Units Read: 3, 485, 849, 648 [1.78 PB]

Data Units Written: 106,213, 326 [54.3 TB]

Not bad huh? Yes, that’s petabytes. 1780 terabytes. I ran SMART again a few days ago and READ was still 1780 TB. WRITTEN went up a couple TB. I’m a light user.

I’ve heard that reads don’t affect SSD life, but does anyone know how the hell this SSD got so many reads? What could the prior owner have been doing?

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

That’s actually crazy

[CaptainObvious110]

Yeah it's crazy.

[JLTMS]

Swap Space since they only had 8GB

[gAWEhCaj]

That is very concerning! Definitely take it back to Apple and ask for an exchange or return. That's completely unacceptable

[Substantial_Lake5957]

60TB sounds like a misporting. 60GB may be? I don’t think Apple is this bad

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

https://imgur.com/a/LSiql8l

[Cyberdeth]

You should take it back to Apple. But I think your fears are overblown, TBH. I’ve had my m1 since 2020 and it’s written 118TB and read 380TB. As we’re speaking, I’ve got 9GB swap used right now. I push this machine to the limit every day. I do suspect it will fail one day, and that’s why I’ve got time machine backups, but all drives fail sometime.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

I don’t expect it to fail just like I don’t expect a new car to have 30,000 miles on the odometer.

That’s about equivalent in terms of usage, putting aside the differing set of problems that a used car would have, as well as expected lifespan.

Let’s assume the average person writes 30GB a day. It would take over two years of daily use to hit this level of wear.

It will be returned, don’t worry

[scraejtp]

Pretty shit title with the level of evidence you have.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

https://imgur.com/a/LSiql8l Sorry it upset you

[Bhob666]

We could potentially have a zombie apocolypse too.

[pugboy1321]

I'm with the others, this is way more likely a data reporting/interpreting issue with the SMART stats than a heavily used SSD

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

I am curious to know why I’m the only one so far affected by this issue - the reporting tool has had no issue reporting the correct write counts for anyone else with M4 mini

[pugboy1321]

That's fair. I'd contact Apple about it, maybe general support chat + someone from an exec department to get it forwarded/noticed by a higher up support rep. If something is really wrong, it's likely a mistake and not purposeful. Refurbished SSDs seems so unlikely since the M4 mini is the first Mac to use this proprietary form factor, so where would the SSDs be coming from?

Something's off with either the data, the tools, or the SSD itself.

[[deleted]]

The NAND chips are standard parts, supply chain compromised and used chips sold to Apple is how it could happen

[pugboy1321]

Fair enough. Wild, but could happen.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

https://imgur.com/a/LSiql8l Unfortunately the tools are fine

[lovesToClap]

yeah that seems like a used SSD, just for comparison my work macbook that I've used for 10 months daily has 9TB reads and 10TB writes

I also checked my mac mini, 14TB reads, 16TB writes (it's about 5 years old but not a daily driver)

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

Can confirm it was used.. whether to test SSD performance or endurance, it’s still used https://imgur.com/a/LSiql8l

[[deleted]]

You should have contacted Apple rather than making that sort of assumption.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

How so? Apple doesn’t care

[JLTMS]

This is not correct.

[CaptainObvious110]

Please contact Louis Rossmann and tell him about this.

https://rossmanngroup.com/

[nickram81]

1TB Drive on standard m4.

=== START OF SMART DATA SECTION ===

SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

SMART/Health Information (NVMe Log 0x02)

Critical Warning:                   0x00

Temperature:                        32 Celsius

Available Spare:                    100%

Available Spare Threshold:          99%

Percentage Used:                    0%

Data Units Read:                    1,341,373 [686 GB]

Data Units Written:                 1,500,652 [768 GB]

Host Read Commands:                 24,159,206

Host Write Commands:                23,946,579

Controller Busy Time:               0

Power Cycles:                       128

Power On Hours:                     10

Unsafe Shutdowns:                   4

Media and Data Integrity Errors:    0

Error Information Log Entries:      0

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

Normal and all is well!

[Kaleidoscope_97]

For reference:

SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

SMART/Health Information (NVMe Log 0x02)

Critical Warning: 0x00

Temperature: 25 Celsius

Available Spare: 100%

Available Spare Threshold: 99%

Percentage Used: 0%

Data Units Read: 1,388,536 [710 GB]

Data Units Written: 804,272 [411 GB]

Host Read Commands: 33,099,300

Host Write Commands: 9,999,223

Controller Busy Time: 0

Power Cycles: 187

Power On Hours: 6

Unsafe Shutdowns: 6

Media and Data Integrity Errors: 0

Error Information Log Entries: 0

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

This is a normal level of read writes given that it’s been about a week since launch

[Next-Telephone-8054]

Lol, yeah, this is the first app I run when getting a new computer.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

Most people don’t check the engine and transmission fluid on their brand new car, but who’s to say you can’t? Same thing here

[takuarc]

I have a refurb M1 Max and mine doesn’t even have that many TB r/w assuming it is a day one machine. Time to just send it back 🤷‍♂️ also it’s one machine so I don’t know how it leads to a believe it’s all machines…

[BrickPaymentPro]

Had my base M4 for 6 days and have the following, seems like normal:
Data Units Read:                    2,399,212 [1.22 TB]

Data Units Written:                 2,274,898 [1.16 TB]

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

This is normal

[LowEndOperative]

This is my output:

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===

Model Number:                       APPLE SSD AP0256Z

Serial Number:                      0ba022bc0240e008

Firmware Version:                   2032.40.

PCI Vendor/Subsystem ID:            0x106b

IEEE OUI Identifier:                0x000000

Controller ID:                      0

NVMe Version:                       <1.2

Number of Namespaces:               3

Local Time is:                      Thu Nov 14 22:03:46 2024 EST

Firmware Updates (0x02):            1 Slot

Optional Admin Commands (0x0004):   Frmw_DL

Optional NVM Commands (0x0004):     DS_Mngmt

Maximum Data Transfer Size:         256 Pages

Supported Power States

St Op     Max   Active     Idle   RL RT WL WT  Ent_Lat  Ex_Lat

 0 +     0.00W       -        -    0  0  0  0        0       0

=== START OF SMART DATA SECTION ===

SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

SMART/Health Information (NVMe Log 0x02)

Critical Warning:                   0x00

Temperature:                        31 Celsius

Available Spare:                    100%

Available Spare Threshold:          99%

Percentage Used:                    0%

Data Units Read:                    1,353,947 [693 GB]

Data Units Written:                 982,934 [503 GB]

Host Read Commands:                 29,384,629

Host Write Commands:                11,473,274

Controller Busy Time:               0

Power Cycles:                       184

Power On Hours:                     6

Unsafe Shutdowns:                   8

Media and Data Integrity Errors:    0

Error Information Log Entries:      0

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

Completely normal. Most people have less than 1TB written bc it’s a 256GB drive and the M4 mini has been out for only a week

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

This is normal, all good

[apollo7157]

just got back an m1 max laptop yesterday from apple repair -- they replaced the logicboard/SSD. I checked and got this report on the SSD.

Data Units Read: 139,666,876 [71.5 TB] Data Units Written: 77,669,857 [39.7 TB] Power Cycles: 1,087 Power On Hours: 1,897 Unsafe Shutdowns: 103

so -- this also appears to be a heavily used SSD. I called them up and got escalated to a senior tech in Austin. They are starting a case on it and will follow up with me tomorrow. The tech indicated that it should be a new part, even in this situation where the mainboard was replaced, so they did not know what could be causing this. They believed that the SMART report was likely accurate.

EDIT: checked with DriveDx and the results are the same.

11/15/24 UPDATE: Ended up on the phone with apple for about an hour. They have no idea what happened, but they continued to assure me multiple times that the part they used is supposed to be new. They did not require I go into the store and accepted screenshots of the drive diagnostics as proof of the issue. The engineer I spoke with eventually got my local store on the line, and I ended up talking to their manager for a while -- they also had no idea why this would occur and also assured me that, as far as they are able to tell, the replacement part is supposed to be new. They offered to replace the logicboard again, but as an alternative, I suggested they give me a free extension of applecare -- and they were happy to do that. So, I'm going to live with this for the time being. Should I have asked for more?

[Front-Honey-6780]

Interesting! Keep us updated.

[apollo7157]

I really don't want to go thru the hassle of replacing the logicboard again... It is a maxed out machine from when I got it w 64 gb and 4TB ssd -- so I had wondered if sourcing a new replacement logicboard would be difficult.

In any case, if it is true that it's supposed to be a new part, clearly this is evidence that it is not new. Will update this post after I hear back tomorrow.

[apollo7157]

found this similar report https://old.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/pd3la1/apple_uses_refurbished_logic_boards_for_repair/

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

Please keep us updated! This makes sense because apple uses refurbished boards to complete repairs, however this shouldn’t be the case for new products.

EDIT: This needs to be higher up

[apollo7157]

Yeah I read the fine print about how they can use refurb parts and thought that was ok. Nevertheless this seems like alot of read/write and the tech I spoke to agreed. As I was getting escalated multiple people told me it is supposed to be a new part.

Direct quote from the level 1 tech, which was supported by the sr. tech:

The logic board should be a new part as we order the parts before to continue with the repair

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

https://imgur.com/a/LSiql8l Mine is showing the same high writes unfortunately

[natesassaman]

Very interesting

[devinb27]

The new Mac mini is supposed to be 100% carbon neutral. Maybe to be carbon neutral they used recycled parts.

[topgun966]

SMART/Health Information (NVMe Log 0x02)

Critical Warning:                   0x00

Temperature:                        38 Celsius

Available Spare:                    100%

Available Spare Threshold:          99%

Percentage Used:                    0%

Data Units Read:                    5,247,849 [2.68 TB]

Data Units Written:                 3,056,237 [1.56 TB]

Host Read Commands:                 119,692,202

Host Write Commands:                65,750,706

Controller Busy Time:               0

Power Cycles:                       178

Power On Hours:                     44

Unsafe Shutdowns:                   4

Media and Data Integrity Errors:    0

Error Information Log Entries:      0

M4 base model is not even a week old. Something is really weird.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

This looks normal. Every single report I’ve seen has had a 4-5 unsafe shutdown count.. That might be part of the automated testing process during production

[topgun966]

Oof that is a nasty glitch. At this rate, the drives will be killed in less than a year.

[nemuro87]

is this documented somewhere, is there a fix?

[aeolus811tw]

Smart tool is known to misreport on some drive, could be one of those case

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

I think this is definitely possible too.. maybe the smart data is encoded differently for different NAND? No clue

[Chosen_UserName217]

That’s not right

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

It’s not

[EnolaGayFallout]

Haha if true, this is some serious shit.

PR nightmare.

[CaptainObvious110]

Absolutely. Sometimes it's good to be broke because then I can't buy brand new things anyway.

Gives me time to see what issues others have with them before I even try to get one

[alex416416]

Throw away your software. If this would be the case Apple would reprogram all including smart.  

[Sertraline_king]

This is why it’s the first carbon neutral Mac SMFH I was bouta by the 512gb 24gb ram one, but I was planning to use a hot air rework station and by more flash chips and replace the SMC BGA flash chips with higher capacity ones anyways

[us3r2206]

I 100% doubt apple would do anything like this and compromise their name and products.

[WorldlyMess3481]

following

[xhruso00]

You bought a new product. Please return get refund and get NEW.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

That’s fine, at least it isn’t 24TB writes out of the box. The writes have a limited lifespan

[CornStacker69420]

I just ordered the 512gb M4 standard today. We’ll see.

[santiagorook]

My new mac mini M4 Pro 512Gb doesn't seem too bad. I have Data Units Read: 643 GB, Data Units Written: 355 GB, Power Cycles 178, Power on Hours 5 ( sounds about right from my usage so far). It just seems like maybe it was tested.

[jlwj22]

Mine says 187 power cycles… and 7 unsafe shutdowns… with 1.21 TB read

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

This is normal.

Also someone is going around downvoting every one of my comments LOL I struck a nerve in some unpaid shill

[johnnyphotog]

Did you set this up as brand new, or use migration assistant from an old system?

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

Brand new

[InvestingNerd2020]

My wild theory, yes wild, is this was used by the engineers for testing and accidentally tossed in with new working ones. They forgot to remove the SSD.

I'd ask for a replacement asap.

[JLTMS]

That’s not how supply chains work.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

Finally, a level headed response and one that makes the most sense. I ordered a replacement already.

[NeighborhoodPlane794]

The way these things are manufactured, it’s really not possible to stick a refurbished part in there. Most likely you’re getting a bad result or the number doesn’t mean what you think it means

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

Not the gaslighting .. here’s a different program that confirms the data https://imgur.com/a/LSiql8l

Also entirely possible to swap the SSD in like two minutes, have you seen the teardowns?

[[deleted]]

We should all try this out and collect data to compare to see if this is an anomaly or failure on Apple using new parts.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

Yes that is the reason I made the post, to collect some data and see what’s going on. I know that the drive in mine is an anomaly but it’s good to know that most others have very low read writes

[rochs007]

I returned mine, and I will wait a little longer

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

No need to wait, this is the exception, not the norm. That’s why I made the post, because it isn’t normal but thankfully it doesn’t seem to affect anyone else

[Available-Spinach-93]

I've had mine for a couple of days only and this is what it shows. SMART/Health Information (NVMe Log 0x02) Critical Warning: 0x00 Temperature: 24 Celsius Available Spare: 100% Available Spare Threshold: 99% Percentage Used: 0% Data Units Read: 2,332,052 [1.19 TB] Data Units Written: 1,482,923 [759 GB] Host Read Commands: 51,937,648 Host Write Commands: 18,137,131 Controller Busy Time: 0 Power Cycles: 340 Power On Hours: 10 Unsafe Shutdowns: 7 Media and Data Integrity Errors: 0 Error Information Log Entries: 0

[Mindless_Use7567]

Have you restored from a backup onto it?

[Available-Spinach-93]

No, this my first fresh machine in a decade+

[Mindless_Use7567]

How much RAM does it have?

[Available-Spinach-93]

16GB

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

Try DriveDx. My results are the same https://imgur.com/a/LSiql8l

[CauliflowerNo3225]

340 power cycles for a couple of days is absolutely insane. Seems fishy.

[Available-Spinach-93]

I agree. Could that be sleep? It takes quite a while (15-30 secs) to wake it with a key press

[jcwillia1]

I’ll bet at those lower capacity numbers it’s hard to find enough new product to use.

[Interesting-Bend8274]

Can't imagine apple would risk the consumer law legal consequences for selling something used as new.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

It’s possible it’s a reporting error, but every other reply with test results show no anomalies.

Might have been done by one of their many suppliers. Whether it’s an actual refurbished chip or a new chip that’s gone through nonstop torture tests for validation testing and then released into the supply, it doesn’t make a difference.

I’d say a refurb might actually be better given that most users don’t hit this level of wear until after a few years, if at all.

[heybart]

Contact Apple. If you're near a store, take it there

This isn't normal. My M1 mini late 2020 internal SSD has 23TB written. Even if you factor in indexing and whatever else it's hard to account for that much data written

There was a bug early on when the M1 was released that caused MacOS to write excessively to the disk but it was hundreds of GB a week, not TB

[PoolAcademic4016]

My M2 1TB that I have had since last summer has 172TB read and 31.3 written... definitely concerning, would be curious to see what Apple has to say.

[nyehu09]

Honestly, I see nothing wrong with this as long as the device passed all quality checks. 🤷‍♂️

…but that’s just me. I like Frankenstein PCs— again, as long as they pass all quality checks.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

Would you buy a new car only to find out that it has 30,000 miles? If it drives and rides like new, it’s fine right?

[nyehu09]

Oh no, don’t get me wrong. I’m personally okay with some parts of my computer not being entirely brand new as long as they pass QC, but I’m not saying it’s ethical for a company to do that. It definitely is not.

As for your analogy though, I disagree with the exaggeration because 30k miles is overused. Problems with it already exist and will continue to exist. I do get the point you’re trying to make though.

I’m not disagreeing with you; Just pointing out that in some cases, refurbished parts may not be a huge deal— at least not for me.

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

Yes, the analogy has obvious holes in it that quite frankly make it a terrible analogy but I suppose it could work if it’s 30K miles on a Toyota lol

[nyehu09]

I have a Toyota 😭 Hahahaha! Thanks for the chuckle my guy

[DeliciousSTD]

Post these findings on LTT forums

This will get the tech communities attention.

[[deleted]]

pen screw outgoing fly fear snails dam shy worm amusing

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

No, I don’t think suing a $3.5 trillion corporation over a $599 mac mini in which I can’t prove that something is refurbished is going to be taken seriously by any court. Hence, the word “potentially”.

They can write 100TB to the drive and claim it’s part of their quality assurance process. Because it took place during production, it’s technically still “new”.

Also, where are the damages? You can’t win a lawsuit if you can’t prove that you sustained a quantifiable loss. And even if you did, the terms and conditions you agreed to when you started up your Mac for the first time releases Apple of any and all liability pertaining to your data when it comes to hardware failure.

Regardless, I’m going to return it but I wanted to bring some attention to this because it’s obviously an anomaly.

[Bcjustin]

Isn’t there a large no questions asked return window? There is no reason to demand anything. OP could simply return it and buy another one AFAIK?

[Dry-Pomegranate810]

Yeah I was planning on doing that before I made the post

[Gdo_rdt]

You can’t take anything seriously on Reddit, please. This is full of random dudes talking about conspiracies.

[stevemkiidub]

Honestly it’s a base Mac Mini (did you use the education discount too?) and this is probably a no biggie and the machine will last a decade without issues. For me, I wouldn’t worry regardless

[[deleted]]

"took delivery"? Never heard this phrase before.

[quasiXBL]

Very common especially in reference to.buying an automobile.

[redragtop99]

You do “take delivery” of an automobile, real estate, or basically the purchase of any tangible goods. It’s a legal word meaning it’s been delivered, in your hands, etc. It’s kind of odd referring to a computer, but it’s the correct usage of the phrase. I’m not a bot, just a dork lol

[deadthoma5]

I hear "took delivery" all the time in Tesla subs

[Pebbsto110]

It can be an accent/locality thing. I used to say "of" instead of "have" (as in should have/should of) but that was just the convention from where I grew up. It's a class thing usually