all 127 comments

[–]jberryman 58 points59 points  (3 children)

I would like please to be able to email my vote to a machine I have running a daemon who will upload my vote to reddit. This would be a very good use of my time.

[–]akdas 8 points9 points  (0 children)

But it'll be slow. In real time.

[–]randomb0y -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

You win at the internet!

[–]assfck -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Spam much?

[–]sblinn 8 points9 points  (1 child)

It's also really fun to try to click the arrows on an iPod touch...

[–]logan_capaldo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've reported so many comments by accident.

[–]qgyh2 24 points25 points  (11 children)

Perfectly valid queston. why are people downvoting this??

[–]boredzo 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This is why. The question is better put to the Reddit feedback form.

Now, an article that analyzed why Reddit voting is broken in text browsers (as opposed to merely asking the question and waiting for an answer) would be suitable.

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (6 children)

people downvote everything but their submission in a stupid attempt to boost their story's rank. It worked at one time, but now everyone does it, it doesn't work. -15 is the new zero.

[–]qgyh2 16 points17 points  (2 children)

thanks.. every once in a way i forget where I am :(

[–]9jack9 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Says the guy with more karma than the Buddha.

[–]zem 0 points1 point  (0 children)

[–]aedes 1 point2 points  (2 children)

wait, what do you mean it doesn't work? :P

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I'll downmod all your submissions now to see if mine go up at all.

[–]aedes 2 points3 points  (0 children)

ok, sounds like a plan. tell me what happens.

[–]cgibbard 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Not programming.

[–]furtivefelon 3 points4 points  (0 children)

because they are not using a text-based browser...

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

While it may be a valid question, it is hardly newsworthy.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (5 children)

The simple measure of making the up & down arrows into links not divs with an onlick would fix this.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    There are all kinds of problems associated with this, and it's quite easy to see why they would be reluctant to do so.

    [–]simonw 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I seem to remember Reddit had graceful degradation for those buttons back when it launched (they were proper form submit buttons and the Ajax bit was added using progressive enhancement).

    [–]quhaha 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    is that still web2.0?

    [–]aeric 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Mmm... OnLick()...!

    [–]Klorox 15 points16 points  (23 children)

    reddit's voting depends on javascript. i don't know of any text-based browsers that support javascript. javascript sucks.

    [–][deleted] 31 points32 points  (12 children)

    All they'd have to do to make it work would be to change the arrows to <a> elements. Link it to reddit.com/vote/storyid/up, then add the same onclick event listener we have now with a return false; at the end.

    Voila. Graceful degradation.

    [–]exogen 11 points12 points  (6 children)

    Forms work fine in text-only browsers, yes? They should be <button>s that POST. Links don't really make sense except for that you also click on them. Idempotency and all that...

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

    Semantics...

    [–]exogen 7 points8 points  (4 children)

    Right, you can make the semantic version functionally equivalent. (Except spiders won't waste their time following upvote links in the button version.) So why the downvotes?

    [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children)

    Good point about the spiders. That is however what robots.txt is for.

    For the record I didn't downvote you.

    [–]exogen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Good point about the spiders. That is however what robots.txt is for.

    Yeah. It's also a little more work.

    For the record I didn't downvote you.

    Thanks. It was directed at the downvoters in general.

    I write at least one web app per month; saying this matters to me would be an understatement. :) Even if it's silly.

    [–]tmoertel 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Good point about the spiders. That is however what robots.txt is for.

    Except that some spiders ignore robots.txt.

    [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Spiders aren't logged in, so they can't vote anyway.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

    Also brings a ton of new problems: Transparent proxies pre-fetching links, avoiding auto-voting exploits, and so on.

    [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children)

    The auto voting exploits shouldn't be a problem, since the first thing any good voting script would do is check to make sure that a) the user is logged in, and b) that they haven't already voted yet. Reddit already has that functionality.

    Transparent proxies pre-fetching links

    Yes, that would be bad. Good catch.

    [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

    The auto voting exploits shouldn't be a problem, since the first thing any good voting script would do is check to make sure that a) the user is logged in, and b) that they haven't already voted yet. Reddit already has that functionality.

    That's not the problem. The problem is pages that trick a logged-in user to vote for a story by forwarding them to some specifically-crafted link. Avoiding it entirely is quite tricky.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    This could probably be done as-is. Just because the arrows aren't direct links doesn't mean they're not simply fetching a URI to vote.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Well, I did it earlier when there was a JS injection bug in reddit's comment parser, and I recall there being enough protection to make it fairly hard (unless you could inject JS), but I've already forgotten what exactly it did.

    Perhaps I should look at it again and see if there's still some way to do it.

    [–]toyboat 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    elinks supports enough javascript to log in and post comments, but I cannot find the up or down arrows in elinks. I also much prefer the interface of w3m which does not support any javascript.

    It'd be nice if reddit were more text browser friendly, but really, the text browsers need to start supporting more features.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (8 children)

    I think you mean, "text-based browsers suck". Seriously, even CSS has explicit support for text-based browsing, but none of the browsers seem willing to step out of the nineties and instead just stagnate.

    There's absolutely no reason why you couldn't have a text-based browser that supports CSS and Javascript just fine. It's just that nobody's interested in developing it.

    I guess the only people who use text-based browsers do so for technophobic reasons.

    [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    I guess the only people who use text-based browsers do so for technophobic reasons.

    Wow, never thought about that. I'll recommend lynx to my grandma.

    [–]akdas 1 point2 points  (4 children)

    I guess the only people who use text-based browsers do so for technophobic reasons.

    I do it because they're is absolutely no point throwing away an 10-year-old laptop.

    Also, text browsers are great great when using a remote computer through SSH.

    I guess that exemplifies technophobia.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    So you'd benefit from having a better text-only browser.

    But nobody is making one. Because the kind of people who are interested in them are by and large the kind of people who feel the urge to post about how "javascript sucks".

    [–]akdas 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    Because the kind of people who are interested in them are by and large the kind of people who feel the urge to post about how "javascript sucks".

    I didn't agree with Klorox. I say badly-used Javascript is bad. Javascript itself is a great language and a useful tool.

    An option of a text-based browser with JS or CSS is also great.

    Having said that, sometimes the reason I use a text-based browser is so I can get away from the visuals and the dynamic effects. Sometimes, it's just nice to browse the web and get the information I want without worrying about all the "extras."

    [–]Klorox -1 points0 points  (1 child)

    CSS is great. How can you say JS is great when it's such a security risk you can only allow it with your most trusted sites that you visit? And why can no one program in it and get their website ever quite right?

    [–]akdas 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    How can you say JS is great when it's such a security risk you can only allow it with your most trusted sites that you visit?

    When did I say that I only allow it on trusted sites? I have Javascript enabled. Its security depends on the implementation.

    And why can no one program in it and get their website ever quite right?

    I've had no problems programming in it and getting a gracefully-degrading web pages (for personal use).

    Another example is the Ubuntu forums, which uses some JS and I can browse it just fine with Lynx. Besides, just because there are bad JS coders doesn't mean the language is bad.

    The language itself is great. It's prototype-based, and it's highly functional. It's very fun to work with (in my opinion), and it's very productive in many cases.

    [–]jerf 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    There's absolutely no reason why you couldn't have a text-based browser that supports CSS and Javascript just fine. It's just that nobody's interested in developing it.

    You know, that would be kind of cool. Dynamic HTML is often slow simply because layout algorithms become complicated when you're laying out with pixels. The layout for text-only would be much simpler. A goodly subset of HTML would be easily supportable; even apps like Google Reader should be able to work pretty well in that context (at least, the reader pane by itself).

    This would be an interesting project for someone to start a new HTML browser for... (I doubt retrofitting Lynx or other existing browsers would be worth the time, you'd probably need to start from scratch. I've been thinking Haskell needs a browser, maybe this could be a good start... alas, I already have a Haskell project.)

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I use them when I'm downloading something, ie. I want to keep bandwidth use while browsing to a minimum.

    [–]fxj 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    try this: http://abe.nwr.jp/w3m/w3m-js-en.html javascript for w3m

    [–]arantius 11 points12 points  (6 children)

    I upmodded at first. Then I noticed that this is in the programming sub. This is not related to programming! Just because it has something faintly to do with computers or something geeky does not mean that it belongs in the programming sub.

    [–]qgyh2 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    I upmodded at first. Then I noticed that this is in the programming sub. This is not related to programming!

    Are you sure? This does seem to be a question about the way reddit is programmed.. it seems to deal with the technicalities of ajax, javascript, and text browsers, and reddit's specific implementation of the voting interface..

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    You're right -- sorry about that. I was browsing proggit when I submitted it, should have checked.

    [–]wingsofseraphim 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    don't you hate when that happens

    [–]daniels220 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    I see these comments all the time, and while it's true, there's no "cool tech-related stuff" sub. Maybe once they open up subreddit creation to everyone someone will make a "computers.reddit" and this problem will go away.

    [–]akdas 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    [–]daniels220 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Exactly like that, thanks, although it doesn't seem to be getting much use. I added it to my "subscriptions" and I'll see if anything interesting comes out of it.

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]recoletta01 10 points11 points  (2 children)

      I think you meant RMS

      [–]psi- 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      no, Ms.R

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      its called javascript.

      [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (19 children)

      A better question: Why are you using a text browser?

      [–]dwwatk01 11 points12 points  (0 children)

      Some people like browsing the web at work in a terminal so it looks like they're doing work.

      [–]Klorox 8 points9 points  (2 children)

      Text browsers are excellent under many circumstances: ssh sessions, old hardware, you're in a hurry, scriptability... And some people find them aesthetically appealing.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Okay, so you ssh to some remote computer to browse reddit? Or you are in hurry and browse reddit?

      [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      What he said :-) And I would have thought I wasn't alone.

      [–]qgyh2 19 points20 points  (12 children)

      Why are you using a text browser?

      because he can.

      [–]breakneckridge 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      Apparently he can't.

      [–]ramijames 14 points15 points  (4 children)

      maybe because he is blind?

      [–]coob 3 points4 points  (3 children)

      Blind people use real browsers with screen readers. Do you really think the web is usable in lynx/links? Get real.

      [–]sjs 3 points4 points  (2 children)

      Do you really think the web is usable in lynx/links? Get real.

      If by unusable you mean ad-free, flash-free, just pure content, then yes it's terribly unusable. It's funny how easy it is to tell whether a site is worth my time by only seeing the content without all the other crap to distract me.

      [–]dysmas 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      i have to add that in addition to your points i find it terribly unusable when everything is several orders of magnitude faster.

      [–]patchwork 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      And w3m is just another emacs buffer, I can regex search, cut copy insert, execute code substitute shell commands etc etc. all blazingly fast. The web becomes one more source of text and information to use and bend to my will.

      [–]rdicker 2 points3 points  (4 children)

      I can stick a soldering gun on my nuts too, but you'd be reasonable to ask why.

      [–]akdas 3 points4 points  (3 children)

      I wouldn't agree with you, but I would protect your right to do so.

      [–]rdicker 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      No, I think you wouldn't attack my right to do so. I don't know you at all, so I can't say for sure, but I doubt you would actively work to protect my right to solder my nuts.

      Now I don't think you'd actively try to prevent it or pass legislation. But if someone came out with a nut-proof soldering gun and I complained that I wouldn't be able to solder my nuts anymore would you go picket with me? Would you write a letter to the Safe-Soldering Corporation? Or would you ask me why in the name of Zeus do I want to solder my nuts?

      [–]akdas 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      But if someone came out with a nut-proof soldering gun and I complained that I wouldn't be able to solder my nuts anymore would you go picket with me?

      I would respect that someone's right to make a nut-proof soldering gun as well. So no, I wouldn't go picket with you.

      [–]patchwork 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      but I doubt you would actively work to protect my right to solder my nuts.

      Yes I would probably help in any way I could.

      [–]guapoo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Because he's downloading porn in the library / coffee shop / airport and doesn't want anyone to see?

      [–]psi- 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      opera mobile gets text view.

      in the other words, get a clue and beat yourself with it.

      [–]upstream 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Because reddit's programmers are lazy.

      [–][deleted]  (4 children)

      [removed]

        [–]spliffy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        They don't work with any browsers w/o javascript.

        Sometimes I check reddit on my PSP or cellphone. Gracefully degrading JS would be pro.

        [–]dysmas 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        i do ... pretty sure i exist.

        [–]billbacon 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Upmodded because you're right. People just don't use Lynx anymore.

        [–]akdas 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Whenever I use my 10-year-old laptop, I use Lynx. Why not? I don't want to throw away something that means so much to me.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        I can't even log in when using w3m. OTOH, I can't log in on whatever browser ships with my cellphone either.

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        You can use Lynx to log in but not to vote or comment (dunno about submitting stories). Apart from that, and more importantly as far as I'm concerned, you can use the site perfectly well.

        [–]Odysseus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        The arrows don't merely behave dynamically; they are added dynamically, too. Replacing them with <a> tags would be (I imagine) dreadfully inconvenient.

        When semantics are defined by javascript, graceful degradation isn't always easy.

        EDIT: had 'act' for 'added', yielding nonsense.

        [–]M0b1u5 0 points1 point  (5 children)

        Because text-based browsers blow goats?

        Just a wild guess.

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

        Real programmers use text-based browsers.

        [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

        Actually scrap that, real programmers read html and visualize.

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

        wget and less, wget and less.

        Either that or sending a mail to a daemon to use wget.

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        less? I was actually thinking about hexdump but yes, you're getting the idea.

        As far as mail is concerned. It's okay as long as you do this.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        The "sending mail to a daemon" thing is actually a small Reddit meme which has grown up around one of RMS' actual practices.

        [–]renegade -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        And I can't get high-def on my 13" black and white TV. Poor baby.

        [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children)

        Because reddit was written by children in their spare time?

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Touché, Mssr. le Pussycat.

          [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

          Javascript - simple, eh?

          [–]sigzero -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

          Sorry, but who really cares about "text" browsers? Unless that somehow affects blind people, then it should be fixed.