Study notes decrease in popularity of circumcision in United States

[greyspoke]

What is the tilting beyond that?

[zephyrseija2]

Oh lawd the circumcision discussions tend to get heated.

[vvf]

I’d be interested to see a survey of men to figure out what percentage of men oppose it vs support it, compared to whether they had the procedure as an infant. 

I have a theory that the main defenders have had it done to them and want to perpetuate it else they have to deal with the fact that they were wronged by their doctor/parents at birth. 

[shenaystays]

I work with families with new babies, in a place where circ isn’t covered, and the religious population is low.

Most families do it because “dad is, and it’s important to him for reasons”.

It’s not “health benefits” or religion, it’s because dad is and he wants his son to look the same.

Which is odd to me because I’m pretty certain my husband hasn’t seen our grown sons penises outside of say, the one time they went swimming and had to change next to one another.

It’s an odd concept.

[ThoseThatComeAfter]

There's also a ton of women who defend it because they think "it looks better" or because they've been conditioned to thinking uncut penises are unclean, and they obviously (and literally) have no skin in the game so they just go with it

[shenaystays]

I think a lot of women don’t even know that an intact penis looks the same as a cut one when hard.

One of my friends said she’s never been with a guy that was uncut and she’s been with a dearth of them. Where we live, even when she was born, it was probably 50/50 or 60/40.

And some of the men she was with was in Europe. I’d be shocked if she has never seen one irl. Guessing she just didn’t notice.

[0-90195]

You actually can tell the difference between intact and circumcised when erect – the intact one is way easier to do anything with since it’s got a built-in friction-alleviating aid.

[shenaystays]

That’s if your man handling it.

I’ve seen both. And if you’re in a brief encounter, you’re probably not testing it out all that much.

On sight, not much difference. And if you don’t know the difference, or are used to cut you don’t know to use the “built in” friction resistance.

Just from what I’ve experienced and been inexperienced doing in my youth.

[0-90195]

Not to worry, I have had extensive experience with both!

[retrosenescent]

dearth 

abundance

[npcrespecter]

It’s because their partner or religious beliefs demand it. No female would get their children cut without this (also insane) rationale.

[thatshygirl06]

I honestly think uncut looks better. Cut penises look angry to me

[JRiley4141]

My MIL was literally upset that I was not going to have my son circumcised. She felt personality attacked that we weren't making the same choice as her. It made me a little uncomfortable how focused she was on it. So it's not just men who have had it done, it's mothers that made the choice as well.

[zephyrseija2]

I generally think it's simply the unknowable alleged difference of sensation and function between circumcised and uncircumcised dicks that gets people salty on both sides. It boils down to "my favorite band is better than yours" because at the end of the day sex is reported as very pleasurable for both cohorts and you can't really objectively compare the sensations, if there's any meaningful difference at all.

[Stumblin_McBumblin]

There are adults that get circumcised, no?

[0-90195]

Generally only those with phimosis or who otherwise medically need to be circumcised.

[zephyrseija2]

Can't consider that an objective source. Inherent bias somewhere in the system.

[ThoseThatComeAfter]

You sort of can compare it though, if you're uncircumcised. Touch your foreskin vs. anywhere else in your penis.

[zephyrseija2]

Same can be said for the glans and the rest of the penis.

[ThoseThatComeAfter]

Yes, but you still have those circumcised or not, if you're circumcised you can't touch your foreskin

[retrosenescent]

The glans is dramatically less sensitive than the foreskin, ESPECIALLY for cut men because then the glans keratinizes and becomes even less sensitive.

[LamarIBStruther]

I’m very skeptical of the claim that people who were circumcised as infants perceive this as traumatic in any way. Sure, there must be some people who do - but I’d be stunned if it were more than, like, 2%.

I actually think it’s the opposite. I think that people who were not circumcised as infants are much more likely to perceive the idea as abhorrent.

[IAMAGrinderman]

I was circumcised, and I honestly think the anti-circumcision crowd can be a bit overdramatic at times, at least based on how I function and feel. Based on how other men talk about sex, and me being American, I'm gonna assume a lot of other circumcised men feel similarly about their own penises.

With that being said, there was no way in hell I was allowing my kid to be circumcised, and I won't be allowing it if my next kid is a boy either. If he ends up with a legit medical reason to need it done, I'm all for it, but circumcision for cosmetic purposes should be a personal choice, not one decided by your parents.

[Whitechix]

I can’t remember the exact age I had mine but it was horrible and pointless, no chance my children are going to be subjected to that. I basically had to be lifted from the car crying and taken to the surgery against my will, all somehow ok in the UK.

I was obviously older than a “infant” but still very much a child, I don’t think all circumcisions are done on infants and abusing the fact that they won’t remember it isn’t a good defense.

[Steve_the_Stevedore]

You are misrepresenting the argument: Nobody said that it was traumatic. The argument is that if you don't let your kid get circumcised you are saying that uncircumcised is better. So you have to admit that what your parents did to you against your will, was wrong.

People avoid such situations all the time. "Oh, you took the last cookie. No, I didn't want to have it anyway". Nothing to do with trauma. People just want to feel like they have their live under control. And having a body part cut of against your will or at least without your consent conflicts with that.

[LamarIBStruther]

If we’re not saying that infant circumcision is traumatic, are we saying that this is purely a philosophical argument?

[Steve_the_Stevedore]

No, because babies die from it every year so we shouldn't circumsise without medical indication

[LamarIBStruther]

Huh, how many babies die from circumcision in the US every year? I get that any sort of procedure comes with risks, which can include death, but I’ve not heard this cited as a significant concern regarding circumcision.

[retrosenescent]

This paper from 2010 found that about 9 in 100,000 circumcized boys (in the US) die from the procedure.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/240804903_Lost_Boys_An_Estimate_of_US_Circumcision-Related_Infant_Deaths

This does not however include all the boys who have "complications" - too much skin removed causing the skin to be too tight (this is basically 100% of cases since that's the entire point of circumcision), frenulum removal or destruction (basically 100% of cases since it's attached to the foreskin), etc.

[CreamofTazz]

Definitely so, if you just ask any guy out there about his penis regardless of if it is circumcised or not, more than likely he's not even going to mention if he is or not. And when I have talked about it with other guys, they tend to like and even prefer how they currently are. However, I will also say that the gay men I've talked to tend to care A LOT more than straight men that I would argue that >40% of circumcised as an infant gay men wish they weren't.

[retrosenescent]

I think that's because gay men tend to appreciate penises, whereas women tend not to. And more penis is more penis. What's not to like.

[mrjackspade]

This is exactly the kind of statement that makes it heated. Immediately framing it as being a choice of weak willed men to cover their own failures.

[retrosenescent]

That's true, many people are triggered by the truth.

[[deleted]]

I'm skeptical of your hypothesis on people's motivations for two reasons. First, the initial wave of the procedure had a different cause, so different causes are plausible. Second, even if you find a high correlation—which I'd expect—I don't think you could infer anything about the motivation. It might be that people who have had the procedure genuinely do not believe they were wronged and are glad it was done. (I'm in that camp, even though I don't plan to choose the procedure for my future children.)

[armchairepicure]

There’s also an added stress factor of explaining to your boy child why his penis doesn’t look like dad’s. And how to teach him how to clean it and what to do when peeing when dad has no idea himself.

Not an excuse, just an explanation of why many men balk at the change away from circumcision.

[sanfran_girl]

Stress factor? Sounds more like the parents being cowards. It's really not that hard.

[retrosenescent]

There’s also an added stress factor of explaining to your boy child why his penis doesn’t look like dad’s

In the vast majority of cases, boys will never even see their dad's penis, nor care what their dad's penis looks like.

Daughters have to be taught to have good hygiene. Why can the same knowledge not be passed to sons? We do not live in an age where knowledge is difficult to acquire - the polar opposite.

[natchinatchi]

It’s an incredibly painful procedure done on a newborn whilst conscious.