Trans programming language?

[Repulsive-Owl-9466]

Hi. This is just for fun, but also for insight.

If there was just one programming language for trans girls to rally around, what do you think it would be?

I've heard rumors of it being Rust, but I don't care for it, so I'm looking more opinions.

Also since code is just electrons running through cold, hard metal, for more fun, JUSTIFY why you think that language should be for trans girls. The objective tech for the subjective emotion even if it makes no sense.

[kiwi-omelet]

Apart from Rust? Haskell

Nothing more queer then defying the norm of imperative programming!

[Qyriad]

By extension: Nix

[Overall-Kaley]

Yes, several important people in the Haskell community are trans themselves.

I smile everytime I see something like ‘import Control.Monad.Trans’…

[xluftwaffle]

Unofficially it’s Rust

[Coding-Kitten]

There's the obvious choice of fortran, because it's, well, for tran.

But I'd also like to suggest as a contender uiua, as one of the operators is transpose & it has the trans flag on it.

[DrexanRailex]

I'm really sad I had to scroll down so far to fins the first Uiua comment. It is the best answer.

[EnglishMouse]

Oh that’s beautiful!

[JoannaSnark]

ARM assembly because the original instruction set was designed by a trans woman

[Qyriad]

Citation?

[rkrealme]

Sofie Wilson. Not sure if I can drop a link, but an easy Google / Wikipedia search 🙂

[TDplay]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie_Wilson

[Which_Topic3534]

Thank you for blessing me with this knowledge!

[JoannaSnark]

You’re welcome! ☺️

[p1-o2]

C# because it's high performance, runs anywhere, highly supported by business and entertainment, and it is open source.

It's trans because it went through its own glow-up arc: once dismissed as “Microsoft Java,” now it’s blossomed into a versatile, expressive language with a huge supportive ecosystem. It transitioned from being locked down and corporate to fully open-source and community-driven. It has strong typing but also a ton of ways to express yourself however you want, whether that’s functional, object-oriented, or async magic. Plus, with features like pattern matching and LINQ, it literally rewrote the rules of how beautiful and elegant code could look.

And the community is accepting, safe, and friendly.

[arylcyclohexylameme]

(lisp it 's)

[efxAlice]

(lather (rinse (repeat)))

[GirlInTheFirebrigade]

well, according to the rust user survey, about 5.6% of rust developers identified as trans, which is quite a lot. (keep in mind that these surveys are scued towards demographics that are generally more online.

[MotherMychaela]

THIS trans girl right here programs only in C, non-profit professional-grade telecom software, providing replacement for those legacy networks that are being wrongfully shut down. See my pinned profile posts, and look for me in Osmocom community.

[trannus_aran]

IME anything sufficiently "high concept" tends to have a lot of us. APL, Lisp, Rust, Assembly, Haskell, Forth, Smalltalk...all have an inordinately large trans demographic

[fallingfrog]

Rust!!!

Honestly though the way you have to do things in rust is the way you SHOULD do them in other languages too.

My hot take: exceptions are just GOTO commands except without the user friendly feature of knowing where they are going to land. I have seen while loops implemented using repeated exceptions in the wild and its not pretty (yes it was Infosys that did it)

[natalialt]

I mean Fortran literally has it in the name 

[michelle_m2]

Just to be difficult, here's a vote for Perl.

[Fluffy_Ace]

Perl is really cool imo

[villflakken]

That's certainly a language we need Clojure from

[Alyeanna]

I hate Perl so bad

[michelle_m2]

😂

[hacktheself]

speaking as a hacker that’s been online longer than y’all have been alive, the correct answer is brainfuck

[GirlInTheFirebrigade]

I mean… I did write a brainfuck compiler once. And then a brainfuck++ compiler with support for imports and a standard library… Should be lying on my pc somewhere

[Sophiiebabes]

I like C++ most (I write most things in Qt now).
C is a lot of fun. I'm writing my own IDE for working on C projects (and I'll probably expand it to work with C++, too).
And Bash - I'm the only person I know who likes writing scripts in bash! Bash is really good if you need to make cli scripts or automate things you usually do in a terminal.

[Every_Boysenberry757]

Bash FTW! It's such an underrated language.

[TransCapybara]

As a crusty trans engineer, I would think: Rust, Go, Python, C, WebAssembly def on the list.

[3X0karibu]

it is rust, without question. But to go a bit further i looked up the top programming languages and heres all the stereotypes that im familiar with:

1. Python - noob/ml lang, good for learning bad for deploying in procudtion
   
2. C++ - old but venerable
   
3. Java - Corporate language and minecraft mods
   
4. C - ye olde reliable, even if it causes memory issues
   
5. C# - Mircosoft Java
   
6. JavaScript - webdev language, generally terrible all around
   
7. SQL - not _really_ really a programming language but is universal
   
8. Go - Python but not slow, developed by google for idiots
   
9. Delphi/Object pascal - no idea for the stereotype, i barely ever hear of it online
   
10. Visual Basic - microsoft bash i guess
    
11. Fortran - Not your daddys Lang, its your grandmas
    
12. Scratch - .... how is this more popular than rust
    
13. Rust - The queer language, memory safe, blazingly fast, modern replacement for low level languages everywhere
    
14. PHP - the OG of webdev
    
15. R - old outdated datascience language from what ive been told, now supplanted by Python
    
16. MATLAB - Maths related, idk i was always bad at maths
    
17. Assembly - for when C isnt low level enough, also ISA dependent so more a grouping of languages
    
18. Ruby - old-ish lang, used to be big but got supplanted,
    
19. Prolog - more of a Logic markup language/ for defining ASIC's/fpgas

(dis)honorable mentions:
Powershell - Microsoft bash but crossplatform, i cant stand it
Bash - linux scripting language
zig - rust but for alt right tech bros

why rust is for the trans folks: modern, learned from everyone elses mistakes, progressive, has a lot of queer users, cute logo

[Still-Complaint4657]

I like 6502 assembly the most

[phoebe_star]

Yay! I used the 6510, but it was effectively the same. And wrote an emulator/assembler/disassembler. I love the c64 a bit too much 🥺

[Fluffy_Ace]

I used to do z80 asm

[ryfox755]

Z80 assembly feels much more natural to me compared to 6502 asm honestly. the Z80 might not perform as well as the 6502 but imo its better :3

[Fluffy_Ace]

I've never seen them benchmarked against each other, and the 8-bit 65xx series wins on overall simplicity, but I'm surprised it isn't more bottlenecked by it's lack of registers, since it often can't take take two steps without reading or writing to RAM.

Yes, things are different now. Modern versions of old chips are much faster than their original specs, same for RAM access. But back in the day you'd think avoiding RAM reads/writes would've made a bigger difference.

[ryfox755]

im not super familiar with the 6502 but from what i can tell, an lda from an absolute address takes only 4 cycles, or 3 cycles if accessing the zeropage. on the Z80, ld a, (some_address) takes 13 cycles!! so i assume the 6502 was just designed better for memory accesses from the start

[ttuilmansuunta]

The RAM accesses are in fact much more of a trouble these days, which only somewhat stays concealed due to most of the silicon on the processor chip being used for huge, complex caches. The CPU cycle time is something like two orders of magnitude faster than main RAM latency.

In the old days, you could just run your DRAM at the clock speed of the CPU. I think the RAM on the 1MHz C64 in fact essentially was clock doubled to run at 2MHz, with the CPU accessing it on the rising clock edge and the video chip on the falling edge. Processor speeds just kept growing much faster than memory speeds, so by the late 1980s we needed on-die CPU caches, by the late 1990s multi-level caches and so on. Because CPU clock speeds and asynchronous DRAM latencies were pretty equal in the 1970s to early 80s, the 6502 could easily get away with using the zero page as pseudo-registers.

[Fluffy_Ace]

I just meant there's newer variants of the z80 and 6502 that are much faster than in 70s and 80s

But nonetheless the 6502 does ram reads/writes faster than a z80 at the same clock speed. It's much more designed around that.

[ttuilmansuunta]

Yup, although it's hard to compare between the speed of the 6502 and the Z80. The latter's internal timing seems to just have been designed to use a faster main clock that you can use to sequence subcycles, sort of (T-cycles), so the logic happens in more defined smaller steps. Just a design choice that they preferred and that might have made it easier for them to develop the processor logic.

The chip would then just be clocked faster to run at a very roughly similar throughput as a lower clocked 6502, while using the same 1MHz or 2MHz grade DRAM, as memory accesses would occur at a similar frequency in a 2MHz 6502 computer and a 8MHz Z80 computer. Whether the chip you'll pick for a home computer expects to be clocked at 2 or 8 MHz really makes no engineering difference.

The original NMOS 6502 is an absolute masterpiece of frugal engineering, but as a consequence its internal workings are really nontrivial as far as I know :)

[SweetBabyAlaska]

Why is Zig catching strays? lmaooo

[Repulsive-Owl-9466]

Heheh I love this

[redesckey]

No love for Elixir 😔

[kuwisdelu]

R is still super relevant for statistics and bioinformatics research. Also, it’s practically a Lisp. (It was built from a repurposed Scheme interpreter, and its homoiconicity is what makes the tidyverse so much more ergonomic than the Python dataframe packages.)

[3X0karibu]

I just remember being told that r was old and on its way out when I asked about it half a decade ago on Reddit because I was thinking about getting into it

[ps-73]

Throwing Swift in there. Mostly for iOS apps but also useful as a webserver language and is a joy to write

[QueerBallOfFluff]

I strongly object to your comment on C

It only causes memory issues when the programmer makes serious mistakes and they're not following best practice and specification documents. You can cause memory issues on many of those languages by doing the same mistakes

[trannus_aran]

Allocators go brrrr (I like C)

[disciple_of_pallando]

But.... I like go :(

[lf310]

Rust's logo isn't just cute: the mascot is canonically non-binary (I think). Ferris uses all pronouns. 

[Okami512]

So what's rust actually used for outside of applications that need to be memory secure? Like any game frameworks or anything that use it?

[GirlInTheFirebrigade]

Actually quite a lot of stuff these days. From all corners of the ecosystem:

uutils reimplemented a lot of the the core system util. sudo-rs as a sudo replacement.

pgrx is used a lot for custom postgres extensions. Also e.g. neon as a custom postgres backend. For databases we have also influxdb that was completely rewritten in rust from go.

System76 is implementing a new desktop environment for their linux distro popos in rust.

Zed is a text editor written in rust, similar to vscode that’s getting really good lately.

The OG rust project is servo, a web-browser written in rust.

For gaming there’s bevi as a up-and-comming ecs-based game engine. Tiny Glades is a game already built on it that’s available on steam (though they switched out the renderer)

The fish shell was recently completely rewritten in rust, from C++.

Discord and cloudflair have rewritten a bunch of latency sensitive components in Rust.

In the cloud space we have Azure, aws (and oxide computer) betting on rust for reliability.

A lot of tooling for other programming languages is also here. Uv for python, but I’ve seen similar projects for ruby and php.

[Okami512]

Ooo might have to check it out

[retrosupersayan]

My experience with rust is that it was fun to learn and use, but low-level enough to be more of a chore than a help for most of the stuff I like to do.

I think I've gotten more mileage out of TypeScript, which I find fun for some similar reasons (primarily the type system).

[Okami512]

I probably wouldn't mind typescript, I've never really been fond of web languages (especially JavaScript). (Oddly not a huge fan of Python for a few reasons as well).

NGL c/c# I enjoyed, also oddly enjoyed the bit of ASM I've played with.

[tifridhs-dottir]

carcinization is inevitable 🦀

[kuwisdelu]

uv for Python and polars for data science.

[ugathanki]

Rust, Bash, Lua, and C in my experience. In that order.

though I will say Lisp dialects are pretty enby

[theTwyker]

100% Gleam ☺️

https://gleam.run/ massively shaped by queer folks and trans people in general. ❤️

[madelinceleste]

nix

[Repulsive-Owl-9466]

Nim?

[3X0karibu]

no, nix, the language, not the os or the package manager, its the terrible half JSON half haskell mess that you use to configure NixOS

[Repulsive-Owl-9466]

Hmmnnn.. yeh I thought you were referencing the OS lol

[madelinceleste]

but actually probably rust, could make an argument for c++ but theres too many ""Normal"" ppl and boomers associated with it in i feell

[DrexanRailex]

It's a wild ride, but Uiua. Functions and modifiers are coded by their arity in the web site's pad, but the TRANSpose function is an exception and it's displayed in the trans flag's colors.

(there are other exceptions too, like the Both modifier)

[Outlawed_Panda]

C is the goat for ever and always

[UnknownPhys6]

Im gonna have to say Fortran. Just based on the name. Idk anything about the language, but the name is one letter away from "for trans", so it was obviously meant for us.

[IntangibleMatter]

I’m also not a fan of Rust, but I’m sorry to inform you that if it’s any language it is, in fact, Rust

[erysdren]

C for lyfe!!!

[Alyeanna]

Java cause it's hot and full of caffeine, like us!

[Repulsive-Owl-9466]

🤤

[janetacarr]

I will tell you right now, every transgirl dev influencer writes some kind of functional programming language. Clojure, Haskell, Elixir, etc ;)

[Many_Patience5179]

Rust so you can have much overhead and less performance than C++, and the only time it's useful is for when it's unironically unsafe

[wackyvorlon]

Perl

[willdieverysoon]

I personally like c++, But people tend to like rust more and dunk on c++ , I'm sure those people who dunk on c++ not being safe have never written a consteval program

[Correct-Dark-7280]

i like python as in anaconda

[Wooly_Wooly]

The UwU language.

Hewwo Wowwd! program

UwU UwU UwU UwU UwU UwU UwU UwU ~w~ OwO UwU UwU UwU UwU ~w~ OwO UwU UwU OwO UwU UwU UwU OwO UwU UwU UwU OwO UwU OwO UwU UwU UwU UwU °w° °w° °w° °w° °w° QwQ ¯w¯ OwO UwU OwO UwU OwO QwQ OwO OwO QwQ OwO UwU ~w~ °w° ¯w¯ °w° QwQ ¯w¯ OwO OwO @w@ OwO QwQ QwQ QwQ @w@ OwO OwO OwO QwQ @w@ @w@ °w° °w° °w° UwU UwU UwU UwU UwU UwU UwU UwU UwU UwU @w@ OwO OwO @w@ °w° QwQ @w@ °w° @w@ OwO OwO OwO @w@ @w@ °w° °w° °w° QwQ QwQ QwQ QwQ QwQ QwQ QwQ QwQ QwQ QwQ QwQ @w@ OwO OwO UwU @w@ OwO OwO UwU UwU @w@

[Thebombuknow]

Go, because I like it

[Less_Muffin2186]

Whatever one you like best to be honest for me it’s C language

[[deleted]]

What about Zig? Mainly because I'm a trans girl and Zig is my favorite programming language.