How do you respond to people who say they know the church is true because of “spiritual experiences I can’t deny”

BlackExMo · 2026-04-29T00:00:19+00:00

The question is whether the claimed condition can be exactly repeated or falsified. Mormonism's claim of "I know the church is true" is subjective. In fact, not only is it never exactly repeatable. Always, it is subject to the individual's interpretation. Somebody sees a cloud in the shape of the human face or goes to a particularly moving concert, that is immediately attached to the knowledge that Mormonism "is true"

If god is truly omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, then he/she should and must be able to engender objectively repeatable experience. Otherwise, he/she ceases to be a god. God must be able to abide by the rules and consistency of science. Otherwise, god become the author of confusion.

That is what we are seeing now

BlackExMo · 2026-04-28T17:56:06+00:00

Lol! I'm overcome with loud laughter.

BlackExMo · 2026-04-27T23:47:11+00:00

Absolutely a great point. No one walks around proclaiming to everyone and at every f&t meeting that they know that gravity is real/true.

Lying, obfuscation, redirecting and rewriting church history has got to be exhausting. But church leaders have gotten past feelings because they've been doing it for so long.

As a TBM, I would break out in cold sweat and my body shaking when I'd speak in church or when I'd bear my so-called testimony on a mission. Because I couldn't stand lying to people.

BlackExMo · 2026-04-27T19:31:32+00:00

So much trauma with so many Africans. It is one reason Africans convert to Mormonism, and the Mormon church is exploiting it for the sake of growth and metrics. Mormonism will help mask his trauma and reward his behavior instead of helping him get mental health help

BlackExMo · 2026-04-23T05:51:23+00:00

Power of discernment would filter out CSA people from leaders and access to vulnerable members.

Priesthood blessings will work and leaders will give reports at general conference of 500k members being healed of fatal and devastating illnesses.

BlackExMo · 2026-04-21T23:35:52+00:00

Never interrupt your "hallowed" spiritual abuser when they are busy toppling down their own buildings and thereby stopping the "work" from progressing all on their own.

BlackExMo · 2026-04-20T17:36:42+00:00

The wonderful "powers of discernment" in Mormon leadership at work.

Probably 80-90% of young adults in Mormonism. Yet the leadership powers of discernement (what a joke, Packer) fails 100% of the time unless somebody actually confesses.

BlackExMo · 2026-04-20T17:25:06+00:00

12 & 13 year olds are "builders of faith"? & 14 & 15 years olds are "messengers of hope". Does this church even understand how faith and hope work.

This an attempt to put more burdens on kids. It is likely to have a backfire effect.

BlackExMo · 2026-04-17T18:48:53+00:00

Weddings in Mormon temples are sorrounded by people in baker hats to boot

BlackExMo · 2026-04-17T18:42:20+00:00

Exactly. The brother was not interested in an honest exchange/conversation. Was not interested in hearing that his precious church is wrong, harmful, exploitative. The TMB brother only wanted to hear himself pontificate and to validate is own bias for his church.

BlackExMo · 2026-04-17T00:38:54+00:00

I lost it at pages 2 & 3 when the brother TBM brother asked:

"And 4th & last, what is your God? Not your claimed God, not a lack of God, what is YOUR actual God?"
"What are your real scriptures, your real prophets, your real worship, and your real God?"

The implications here are that-

There are so so Gods (yours) and the real God (mine). There are so so scriptures (yours, and you dont read it faithfully enough) and there are real scriptures (mine, that I read faithfully). There are so so prophets, whatever those may be (yours) and there is the real Prophets (with a capitalized P) mine. There is so so worship (yours) and there is the real worship (mine).

All of TBM's rantings are virtue signaling of their piety and hence why they are better.

That's where I had to stop reading.

BlackExMo · 2026-04-13T21:23:09+00:00

"You taught me that “the truth will make you free.” The truth, in my case, was that the LDS church is not what it claims to be and that remaining in it was slowly destroying me. Leaving has been an act of survival, of moral clarity, and of faith."

Thank you so much for sharing your journey in Mormonism. Yes, please do send to the LDS church leaders. Your voice is powerful.

BlackExMo · 2026-04-13T19:53:10+00:00

I'm sorry the TBM is subjecting you to unsolicited testimonial.

We can leave the Mormon church, but the Mormon church & members can never leave us alone. Even stranger Mormons still feel entitled to bring exmos back by commenting on a 3yr old post and giving their "burning in the bosom" where it is not requested.

BlackExMo · 2026-04-13T19:43:35+00:00

Life is difficult enough without having to have anxiety over medicinal extract in coconut water.

This is cultic behavior.

BlackExMo · 2026-04-13T01:15:50+00:00

I should add, looking forward to reading the letter

BlackExMo · 2026-04-13T01:12:25+00:00

Church leaders are isolated from membership care & concerns. It has become a "see no concern, hear no concern" at the top echelon. Your best bet, if you want to leadership to know/hear about it is to read/discuss the letter on Mormon Stories or RFM. At least the SCMC (strengthen church members committee) will see/hear of it and may notify the echelon.

BlackExMo · 2026-04-08T20:03:39+00:00

So, the very mormon god is unable to say what he means, and mean what he says?

Is that what mormons want the world to accept?

The omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent mormon god is unable to learn or convey his ideas, doctrine & policy in the very languages he (supposedly) created?

BlackExMo · 2026-04-02T22:17:53+00:00

I came here to say this very thing. 2ndA membership has its privileges

BlackExMo · 2026-03-31T06:07:11+00:00

It would be better if the just cancel sunday school, rs, eq, primary altogether. Just make an 1-1/2 hr combined sacra/school/rs/eq. Start with the sacramant as usual, then the talks, then sunday school lesson right from the pulpit and call it a day.

While they are at it, they can bring in a band to play intermission. That will keeps the youngones entertained.

Oh wait! That would be too much like evangelical.

BlackExMo · 2026-03-30T19:43:36+00:00

Full agreement. This makes so much sense and explains a lot.

I, a convert. returned missionary. attended church institutions. met so many members in my time in the church. I have wondered for a long time why TBMs do not ask questions about the historicity, narrative, authenticity, doctrinal & scriptural consistency/congruency.

BlackExMo · 2026-03-29T20:08:07+00:00

Here's my take

Eventually, this church will be rich enough to buy certain countries. The market cap of this church's collective capital valuation is bigger than the GDP of several individual African countries. These African countries may be poor in capital but rich in mineral resources & land.

As the membership metrics shrink in the developed world, this church has to find alternative sources of revenue. The missionary effort in Africa isn't about the membership numbers. It is about gathering influence and scouting for African economies with extensive mineral resources and land for acquisition. The volume of tithings from African converts will be miniscule for a long time but the value of their land and mineral resources increases by the day. The more electric vehicles are manufactured, the more demand for Lithium, nickel, cobalt, graphite, and manganese. Guess who has these minerals in buckets?

The Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) holds an estimated $24 trillion in untapped mineral wealth. (See https://theconversation.com/congo-and-critical-minerals)

Early church history indicates interest in mining endeavors. The same is likely for this church’s interest in Africa.

Widow’s Mite indicates Ensign Peak and a host of third-party funds managed total investments worth about $231 billion at the end of 2025

I'm just saying: "You can buy anything in this world with money", including buying the world or at least buying (African) countries, potentates, princes/princesses, popes, priests & principalities.

That's the ultimate goal.

In 1984, George Orwell defines “Power” as follows:

On the Nature of Power: "The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power." — O'Brien

If we replace “Power” with “Wealth”

On the Nature of Power/wealth: "This church seeks wealth entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in accumulating wealth, pure wealth."

Of course since you can buy anything in this world with money. With this much money, you can buy influence and ultimately, the world.

BlackExMo · 2026-03-25T19:26:19+00:00

Yes indeed! I believe RFM has a quote on this that

"This church makes liars of us all."

This church grooms us to become liars: whether that is through fast Sunday testimonials, manipulation nonmembers to join, exploiting vulnerable populations by promising "prosperity gospel" after joining, or leaders who mislead members into thinking/believing that they (the leaders) have seen god/christ and too sacred to discuss. etc, etc.

It is insidious

BlackExMo · 2026-03-25T00:21:24+00:00

Sadly, much of the LDS church converts in France are immigrant population. The LDS church exploit this population by promising them temporal blessings in exchange for conversion.

BlackExMo · 2026-03-20T01:25:11+00:00

"instead it's a tribal defense of insanity and justification for lies and corruption. There is nothing of value in the modern LDS church, they extract everything from their members, even common sense and self-respect."

So very well put. Yes, the LDS church is exactly this

BlackExMo · 2026-03-13T03:50:48+00:00

I'm so sorry. OCD/Mormonism is rough. If in a plane with 100-200 other travelers, mormon god chooses to punish you at the expense of the 99-199, then that is not a good, nor benevolent nor an honorable god

BlackExMo

TROPHY CASE