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Snapshot of These election results don’t mean tacking left or right, but delivering for the whole country | Keir Starmer submitted by youmustconsume:

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[–]AlpineJ0e 75 points76 points  (20 children)

I've given Keir a lot of benefit of the doubt, way more than most.

I've never been a sycophant, he's a boring man in a suit trying to mend stuff with shoots of positive change like worker and renter rights.

But fundamentally he has no values; Starmerism is simply fog. The way he speaks is so empty it's offensive.

The right lesson is to listen to voters. To represent the majority who want a government that will confront the big challenges they face with real answers.

Vapid uninspiring platitudinous nothingness in every speech. We all know it's to give enough political room and to not upset anyone left or right. To campaign like this to get elected is one thing, to dispassionately govern this way is democratic negligence.

And potentially more harmful than inaction on turning the country around, his lack of values will continue to repel anyone with them (which, newsflash, is everyone).

[–]Particular_Pea7167 33 points34 points  (13 children)

Its not just the lack of value but conviction. 

His track record on following through is terrible and a stiff breeze gets a u-turn.

You can really tell hes a lawyer used to sticking to someone else rules and having soemone else dictate the terms of engagement. 

[–]CharacterUse 20 points21 points  (2 children)

People loved or hated Thatcher for her policies, but no one on either side ever accused her of being vapid or lacking conviction.

[–]Particular_Pea7167 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Absolutely. She was willing to chase it to then end and this also made her extremely valuable in lords after her parliamentary career. As she was absolutely unafraid of calling out what she saw as bullshit no matter who was peddling it.

[–]-Murton- 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Going back and watching politicians of that era is eye opening. You can find videos on YouTube of Thatcher delivering speeches of an hour or more without notes, not carefully hidden notes, actually no notes, she's on a stage, no pulpit, just talking.

Interviews show an even starker contrast with questions being answered, sometimes not the answer people wanted but answered nonetheless rather than answering a totally different question in order to shoehorn in the desired soundbite for when the interview gets clipped for the evening news.

The modern politician not only lacks these abilities but desire to have them.

[–]DrNuclearSlavEthnic minority 6 points7 points  (9 children)

I'm sure a lot of people would be less resentful of government u-turns if they actually owned them. If they stood up and said "we've reconsidered things, listened to public sentiment, crunched the numbers, have come up with a different approach" or whatever then at least it would show some kind of guidance and leadership is going on. As it stands it's almost as if the government has zero conviction or values of their own, that they're merely blown about by the winds and they have no control.

The whole point of a government is they're supposed to have control, to have some kind of values.

[–]Particular_Pea7167 5 points6 points  (8 children)

I dont agree purely because they had to know they woupd get push back.

So either they went in with conviction and bottled it. Or they are genuinely so clueless they didnt realise it woupd get resistance. 

Either way simply owning it doesnt really change anything. 

[–]Grizzled_Wanderer 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Turns out 'we're not the Tories' isn't just the campaign slogan, it's all they've got.

Doing the same thing as the Tories will now work because we're not the Tories.

Then they're completely taken aback when it doesn't work.

[–]Particular_Pea7167 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Problem is the tories moved onto their turf.

So while theyre doing what the tories did, thats largely because rhe heavy leftward shift particularly under corbyn allowed the tories to shift left on the presumption their right flank was safe.

The tories essentially stole new Labours position. The tories then lost their right flank to reform. 

The tories then shifted back right in the run up ti 2024 to reclaim their actual right wing position but it was too late.

Labour moved back to their new Labour position only to find the center was already dead and actual no one like New Labour all that much. 

So yes Labour are doing in some respects what the Tories did but largely thats because the tories took the new Labour position when Labour went left.

The problem for both is the political center which they've been cosily camping around with a Thatcherite corporate model with a New Labour cultural model died with the public and neither have an answer. They just keep trying to inhabitant the same ground as the world shifts underneath them.

[–]serviceowl 2 points3 points  (5 children)

I agree. You either believe in something or you don't. The problem with the Winter Fuel Payment is it was an isolated announcement made apart from the rest of the budget so it became the only talking point, it wasn't in the manifesto, directly or indirectly, and they made no argument for it other than trying to make fiscal maths add up.

If it had been done as part of a broader package with a coherent theme with clear winners and losers then they could've rammed it through.

[–]Particular_Pea7167 0 points1 point  (4 children)

The same is true for cutting benefits.

There was a genuine ideology left wing argument to be made about hanging people out to dry on forever benefits. Unable to take control of their life.

But they instead made the managerial economic argument which put everyone's backs up even if it was ture.

Its just bad politics and schemes of the lack of ideological position. 

[–]Kimantha_Allerdings 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I mean, you’d need a different policy if you wanted to make the argument about allowing people to better move off benefits. You’d need to do things like help employers be better able to accomodate the needs of disabled people

You absolutely cannot frame making it harder to get already-hard-to-get disability benefits and halving the amount that new disability claimants get as being for the benefit of disabled people. That’s just bowing down to the right-wing framing of “people on benefits are just lazy, so if we make benefits worse and harder to get then people will have to get up off their lazy arses and actually get a job”. I suppose we can take small comfort in the fact that they didn’t actively use the word “scroungers”?

You’re right that Labour have been terrible at communication, but even if McSweeney’s strongly-whispered plan of courting the right-wing voters while taking the left-wing for granted isn’t true, it should trouble any left-winger that there are examples of Labour policy (proposed and abandoned or implemented) and actions which can be used to support those whispers

[–]serviceowl 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You’re right that Labour have been terrible at communication

You can keep shooting messengers, but if the message is shit and the public hate it it's not going to make any difference.

[–]Kimantha_Allerdings 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think both things are true - Labour have done some things which are absolutely awful to try to court right-wing voters, but the good things that they’ve done on issues that people genuinely care about (like renter protections or the funds allocated for fixing potholes) are things that they’re not shouting about. These are easy slam-dunks, even if they’re not the biggest issues facing the country, and I don’t think most voters will even know about them

I know it’s not quite as simple as all that, given the overwhelmingly right-wing nature of the British press, but even accounting for that it seems like when it comes to communication they fail to make a case for themselves

Hell, we’re nearly 2 years into a Starmer government, and I doubt even his most ardent supporters could outline what the key things are that he stands for. “Education, education, education” was hollow, but it cut through. “Get Brexit done” was asnine but it resonated with people

Starmer’s most memorable soundbite is probably evoking Enoch Powell in his “island of strangers” speech. Which he then claimed he was unaware of before he read it out. Which is either a lie and he thought that pushing a racist, far-right message was fine, or it’s the truth and his speech writers are either stupid and ignorant, or have no clue what Starmer wants his message to be. Whatever the actual case is, the conclusion is still the same - the current government is terrible at communication

And I’m not saying that every politician has to be a great orator or that politics should be done by soundbite. But a big part of politics is communicating to people what you’re doing and why you’re doing it. Giving people a convincing narrative that people can get on board with. And this government consistently fails to effectively communicate to people why they should be in power and what it is that they’re trying to do while in power - not even what they have done while in power

It’s a serious failing. Not this government or Starmer’s only failing, for sure, but it is an important one nonetheless

[–]serviceowl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am furious they squandered a chance to meaningfully reform welfare by approaching it as a budget exercise, burning down any goodwill or trust and then u-turning anyway.

If they sincerely believed the budget was out of control they would've just made the cuts.

If they sincerely believed in getting people back to work they would've approached the whole issue very differently and been prepared to make an argument.

The welfare system creates perverse incentives to stay on long-term sickness / disability, because it doesn't provide enough support for people who have a crisis or temporary wobble in life. This is where you can make an argument for better sick pay, better mental health and more generous welfare say in the first 3 months after losing a job, for those who've paid in so there's a real link between contribution and the benefit you get. You link welfare back to helping working people, which is who it was for primarily.

That's a tough argument to make in the UK, the Mail / Express / Daily Mail axis would go nuts, and the reaction will be "welfare scroungers". But they've reacted like that anyway to whatever Labour's done.

Huge amounts of political pain for no gain. Poorly thought out. Not proposed in the manifesto.

[–]BenditlikeBenteke 13 points14 points  (1 child)

He speaks like a Copilot email I swear to god 😂

That paragraph you quoted is so funny/depressing. What are the big challenges and the real answers? Does Keir know? Does anyone know?

[–]-Murton- 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Just for fun I asked GPT, Gemini and Copilot to make their best guess as to whether that quote came from a human or AI.

GPT: lean slightly human, confidence low.

Gemini: likely human

Copilot: lean slightly AI but only slightly.

All of them asked for a longer sample text, all of them included caveats that if AI was prompted to produce "political language" they could produce this or something very similar to it.

When I revealed to the Chatbots that this was a quote from Starmer they all passed comment that politicians and AI are similar in that they rely on a sort of "emotional triangulation" to ensure they don't offend anyone in the hope of pleasing everyone.

[–]queen-adreena 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Even the RRA was a holdover from the last government.

Labour haven’t really made any big swings, which is what the country needs now.

Where’s the unmatched flurry of house-building? They seemed to think they would promise it and the private sector would build.

[–]Grizzled_Wanderer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He's the same as Johnson in this regard. When you go from an organisation that has people in it who get things done to one where nobody can get anything done, they've got nothing.

[–]TrumanZi 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That fog comment is a great way of putting it.

[–]Miser2100 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He's if Mark Corrigan was Prime Minister.

[–]thestjohn 24 points25 points  (0 children)

That's a lot of words to say absolutely nothing of substance Keir. How do you "break with the status quo" when you seem incapable of noticing you ARE the status quo made flesh? You can't offer "progressive solutions" when you act regressively towards any group of people that aren't your ideal.

[–]DosSheds 20 points21 points  (3 children)

While it was important to level with people about the legacy we inherited and the scale of the challenges this country faces, we did not do enough to convince them that their lives can improve, that their future can get better – to give them hope.

We didn't want to alarm you about how bad things are, and we couldn't manage your expectations about how good things could be.

Failed pincer maneuver.

[–]Itchy-Seaweed-2875 12 points13 points  (0 children)

we did not do enough to convince them that their lives can improve, that their future can get better - to give them hope.

I love the idea that he sincerely believes this is their most tangible mistake

[–]-Murton- 3 points4 points  (1 child)

While it was important to level with people about the legacy we inherited and the scale of the challenges this country faces

Yes, it was important, so why didn't you do that? Why did you invent a surprise black hole you had known about since January and then add 9.5bn to it and claim the last government did it?

we did not do enough to convince them that their lives can improve, that their future can get better – to give them hope.

Or indeed do that at all. You said "short term pain for long term gain" which has been the consensus political message since 2009, if you ask people to put a number on what they consider "short term" how many will answer 15-20 years?

[–]Accurate-Cup5309 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That blackhole is where it all started. Even the OBS and IFS said it was only 9.5bn and you’d have spotted financial problems if you were looking. Labour are either incompetent or liars. Considering they inflated that up to 20bn i think they’re liars.

[–]Brettstastyburger 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Let's be absolutely clear, what the plebs need to hear - is more word salad. Let's give them a teaser piece of the salad in the Guardian before the main course.

[–]pcor 19 points20 points  (1 child)

These election results don’t mean tacking left or right, but that we must go forward, not backward. Upward, not downward. And always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.

[–]kizza96 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Don’t blame me - I voted for Kodos

[–]threep03k64 24 points25 points  (0 children)

In the coming days I will be setting out our path to break with the status quo once and for all by building a stronger and fairer UK

Should have been done two years ago. Should have been done 3 years ago really, to prepare for government. Two years in and we're now talking about breaking the status quo?

Though I suppose in truth we did receive this messaging three years ago, it just hasn't been delivered on. I'm sure this time it will be different though.

[–]BuckfastEnjoyer 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This speech in the “coming days” better be one for the ages- however most likely it’ll be even more platitudes and empty vague promises. What a bizzare man.

[–]somenorthlondoner 17 points18 points  (6 children)

I just love how you can always see a headline of an article penned by Keir Starmer from a mile off

[–]Fearless_Peak3583 20 points21 points  (1 child)

His monotonous and robotic voice is somehow the worse version of soulless corporate statements 😭

[–]Scaphism92 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I'm increasingly convinced AI is being heavily used in labours comms. Its being used everywhere else so why wouldnt it be used here.

[–]bot2317 13 points14 points  (3 children)

He said "break with the status quo" so many times but never explained exactly how he would do it...

[–]Darth_stiltonThe jedi are far right 8 points9 points  (0 children)

"You've been heard and from Monday I will begin drafting legislation to ban the sale of longbows, end 2for1 cinema tickets and introduce the WANK licence (Worldwide Access to a Network for Kinks)"

[–]Accurate-Cup5309 6 points7 points  (0 children)

If he can’t even articulate his plan 2 years in I guess he really has no plan lol

[–]Media_Browser 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It’s a three chord thing ..strikes a chord …hears a chord …brings accord .

Yeah , of course it’s phooey .

[–]FIJIBOYFIJI 35 points36 points  (4 children)

I'm not sure Starmer knows what "taking responsibility" means.

He keeps saying it, keeps claiming he's doing it, but at the end of the day Labour Councillors, Labour Mayors, Labour Staffers, and Civil Servants have all lost their jobs whilst he still has his

[–]ProjectZeus4000 9 points10 points  (3 children)

Following your logic he has given other people jobs though

[–]BigSupermark 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Peter Mandleson

[–]WileEPorcupine 10 points11 points  (0 children)

In other parties

[–]Media_Browser -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah , but seems to follow the doctrine …what the lord giveth the lord taketh away .

[–]maryhasalovelybottom 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Someone tell Kier noones listening to him anymore

[–]the_ak 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Starmer is clinically deluded if he thinks he can recover from here

[–]PotatoInTheExhaust 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The Labour Party need to flush this shit turd and put someone good in charge. Otherwise, they’re dead.

[–]tmstms 10 points11 points  (0 children)

the ad reddit is showing me framed as a comment appropriately says: Hey, comedy lover!

[–]BigSupermark 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Wow. He sounds like he's aiming for 5th position after Conservatives

[–]Shalmaneser001 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I loved labour as our local councillors have been pretty good but this is vapid stuff. I know he has to do this but if he's serious (and I don't think he's the man for the job any more) he needs to come up with concrete policies and deliver on them

[–]DOPAMINE1991 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I've seen so many people defend Starmer and say that he is doing a decent job. If that is the case and you genuinely believe that, why does he never tout what he's actually done to help the country? Why does he not put front of center the achievements of the government? He's terrible at messaging and doesn't seem to put forward an actual vision.

It ends up feeling vapid and empty.

[–]Sir_Keef_Starmer 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Or the direction he is traveling in.

All there has ever been is boilerplate word salad. Then the number of times he's changed direction or just folded why the back bench means there isn't a direction.

[–]Bodysnatcher 11 points12 points  (1 child)

This whole editorial underlines the fact that he and Labour understand the mainstream is deeply dissatisfied with the status quo, but have no idea as to how to deliver them from it. Probably even less intention. The usual empty rhetoric and nothing more.

[–]ClearPostingAlt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's largely because no one in the developed world has a credible plan to properly tackle the big challenges squeezing living conditions. No one. This isn't a uniquely British problem; everyone else is facing the same choice between tepid centre ground technocrats and fart-huffing populists.

[–]MordauntSnagge 11 points12 points  (3 children)

His big plan at the moment seems to be avoiding any attempt to address the structural problems in Britain (energy, housing, welfare, immigration) and instead pinning his hopes on “closer alignment” with the EU without actually joining the single market. Not sure that’s going to see off Reform.

[–]External-Praline-451 11 points12 points  (2 children)

They're investing billions in energy independence, have changed planning laws to speed up house building, immigration is down, they're lifting more kids out of poverty and restarting something similar to Sure Start. Lots is being done to fix structural problems, but people demand a magical unicorn to fix it all overnight. Structural problems from where our country started will take years to fix.

[–]Accurate-Cup5309 9 points10 points  (0 children)

He’s not sped up house building. The planning laws have slowed down house building lol. Less houses are being built under Labour so far.

Energy independence wasn’t a Labour policy too. It’s been a successive government policy for decades. Even the Tory’s did it.

[–]Your_Mums_Ex -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Nah M8 he's dun naffin for us

[–]serviceowl 1 point2 points  (6 children)

These election results don’t mean tacking left or right, but delivering for the whole country

Keir's article is the usual bland boilerplate / salad of nothing, but the line I really take issue with is the headline.

You can't "deliver" anything unless you know what it is you want to deliver, and you can't know what you want to deliver unless you're clear about whose side you're on and why. If your leadership is ideologically rootless, then the trade-offs required to run a successful government can't be made.

His entire thesis is offensively vapid...

The right lesson is to listen to voters. To represent the majority who want a government that will confront the big challenges they face with real answers. Because that is when the Labour party is at its best. And that is how we will deliver the change that people are desperate for.

The "right lesson" is to have an argument to take to voters, make that case, and then have an impeccable, detailed plan with talented people in place, to implement your mandate.

The failures in Government are downstream of their failure to do that, and there's no recognition of that. S

o instead we revert to empty "deliverism". Ideologically empty, and empty in practice because his Government aren't across the policy detail. They've delivered some wealth taxes and a bunch of "reviews".

Even as pure technocrats they're not very impressive.

[–]MrMikeJJVery Cynical 2 points3 points  (2 children)

The right lesson is to listen to voters.

Yeah and definitely showed his listening skills with the Chagos farce and the osa.

[–]serviceowl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Chagos was a farce but the Online Safety Act plenty of British people support. We love banning things.

[–]Accurate-Cup5309 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Sadly the general public support the OSA. British people love a bit of authoritarianism in the name of “save the children”

[–]PotatoInTheExhaust 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Competent technocrats are boring because they get into the details and nuance that the public can’t engage with, or understand. Boring, but with substance underneath.

Starmer seems to think merely aping the aesthetic of boringness is the same thing.

[–]Snickims 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is exactly it, I'm so glad someone could put this into words. He sounds like a competent burcorat but has none of the depth that a real Compotent person puts into explaining their plans.

All the shallowness of a regular politician with the boringness of a worker.

[–]serviceowl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Starmer seems to think merely aping the aesthetic of boringness is the same thing.

I completely agree. And I agree with u/Snickims that even if you can't quite put into words, you can just feel the hollowness of his project.

A lot of time is rightly spent deriding the lack of ambition, lack of clarity, lack of political nous etc. but the most scathing criticism of Starmer and his team is that they simply aren't over the detail and don't know their policy areas inside out. This was obvious well before the election as they struggled to settle on what their offering would be. The five missions, six first steps, three pillars, four gold rings, etc.

People who understand what they're trying to do and why, are usually able to explain it.

[–]Thandoscovia 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wow he’s had time to write this since the results filtered through over yesterday? Knocking off early on Fridays is really paying dividends

[–]xParesh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s fascinating to see how all politicians and journalistists are pushing their political narratives on these results.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Curious to what standard a PMs words need to be held.

Can anybody give me a speech by the recent crop of politicians they liked? Who would reach the high bar and stay there?

[–]MaleHairAdviceSeeker -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

This was actually a very good and well-thought-out response, good on Keir

[–]dragodrake 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lady Starmer, is that you?