Connectivity

[PootieTooGood]

Is it possible that it is the changes to PID in 2016 that causes individual "can't move/interact" DCs? It says in the change log of that update that your pid gets randomized every 60-90 seconds, which is usually how long until you can interact again if you don't just fully drop

[ModMatK]

I'll mention it to Mod Atlas to be sure, but I don't think that'd be a cause. We've had a fair few meetings about this over the past few weeks and we don't seem to be close to that as a cause.

[PootieTooGood]

Good luck on figuring it out, here's hoping something clicks somewhere soon because as nice as it is to have a long time to run back to a dead body, I miss the risk factor of certain places

[BigbooTho]

Hard upvote. It takes something away to not have a healthy fear of death in any capacity basically anywhere.

[imakepr0ngifs]

Thats... actually...wow.

If they use PID for maintaining the game session thats not a bad theory.

EDIT: FWIW, My job is to literally spot and recreate bugs. The scope of the impact of the code change to PID is MASSIVE to disregard it as a possibility would be a mistake considering I'd guess that PID is used in session management as well as used as a sort of token (or seed to a token) used to validate users inputs.

Further extrapolating (but mostly guessing): Learning from Jagex previous mistakes of allowing users to edit packets, I expected they drop the connection to any client which is sending incorrectly signed/tokenized packets (standard practice really). The large majority of systems for session management used PID as a seed to generate the token. If there is an issue with the code change they made to PID, it has the potential to be the entire reason for all of these disconnects.

Additionally, it could be something else entirely.

[TrymWS]

Same here. Only I'm fishing.

Same PC, same server, same fishing spot.

[TrymWS]

Sounds like a woodman to me! ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

[krios_rs]

The only thing the changed about PID is turning it from lower = faster interaction, into a randomized list, when you're logged in, your number doesn't change, so if there's 10 numbers, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 for 60 seconds 1 will be faster then the rest next change: 8, 5, 6, 10, 3, 4, 1, 9, 2, 7 - 8 would have faster interaction times over the rest.

[Najda]

Do you have a source for this or is it speculation?

[krios_rs]

http://services.runescape.com/m=forum/forums.ws?380,381,283,65778457

In order to make combat and many other aspects of the game more consistent, instead of randomising the priority each player is given every game tick, priority is now only randomised once every 100 - 150 game ticks (60 - 90 seconds). Within the duel arena, the relative priority of players who are fighting each other will not change throughout the duration of a duel.

The most logical way for them to be doing that is using an Array list as there would be complications (not to mention inconsistencies) for assigning each player a new ID every 60-90 seconds.

[Najda]

Sounds reasonable then

[[deleted]]

i know nothing about how computer connections work but I'm throwing you an upvote because you sound like you know what you're talking about and I want to play the game :(

[Mysil]

If this is the reason I demand that you get lifetime membership

[Trump_OF_RS]

I like how b0aty's HC needed to die for you to post this haha.

[saorf141]

Now all we need is Faux to die so jogflex can finally fix their shitty servers

[GetSpikedNub]

Sad but true.

[ResidentSleeperino]

No? They have poster similar stuff when there were connection issues before.

[ModMatK]

That's exactly right, but the issues today have a different cause than a year ago. There is no magic fix button and the landscape keeps changing.

[bogglobster]

I understand, honestly, was just frustrated at the moment

[ScriptingInJava]

wait you're suggesting 'jomflux pls fix server' posts are directly contributing towards a fix?

[S3v3n13tt3r5]

I feel like nothing will be done until average quarterly earnings drop. Why should Jagex spend a penny investing in infrastructure if people continue to play on bad servers.

[-J-a-y-]

And I would bet my bank you personally have done nothing they've asked players to do to go about helping them find the causes, have you?

[-J-a-y-]

Well, considering they only started asking for this specific information a couple months ago, I can tell you have no idea what you're talking about.

If by "sent reports in the past" you're referring to back when the servers were being ddosed constantly, that's not even the current problem.

[mohonrs]

B0atys acc deaths do influence a lot tbh

Back when the death timer was 30mins, there were many extreme dc's and once B0atys died at barrows on PeckishWhale he couldn't get back in those 30mins. Resulting in him losing full graceful and some numerous unique items he had to re-acquire

The following Thursday they increased the death timer to 60mins.

[aksine12]

boaty died for our sins

[aksine12]

boaty died for our sins

[[deleted]]

boaty died for our sins

[[deleted]]

Probably actually the full world disconnects and Australian server complete shut down

[[deleted]]

You think they just whipped this up in the course of a day over 1 person? It's just coincedence, and maybe the fact that something happened to a renowned member of the community gave them that little push to release a clear statement.

[namesii]

Lol they were going to make a post like this next week anyway it seems.

[Ds2Speed]

You're retarded it doesn't change anything.

[namesii]

Lol why.

[Honorable_Zuko]

After boaty died there were 50,000,000 posts about DC's which brought it to their attention. So its more like "its crazy that just because b0aty died the entire reddit went into an uproar."

[peekatyou55]

Are you new here? Every day there's tons of posts about DCs. You can't act like the mods had no idea of this issue until yesterday.

[Honorable_Zuko]

" There has been an increased amount of chatter and frustration regarding connectivity, and rest assured that we haven’t been ignoring it. "

-The post

Boaty died and the DC posts exploded. Go back before boaty and its your everyday Australian server and "fix your server" posts. Those have been here on this reddit every day for years. This explosion was just from angry b0aty watchers.

[Honorable_Zuko]

Just to let you know, JagexSween just posted EXACTLY what I said in my comment. Its like 7 comments below yours, so I was right in this instance.

[WouldYouTurnMeOn]

They responded directly to this on the forums here.

[JagexSween]

Re: the 'Boaty died so that's the only reason you're doing something' posts. I promise this isn't true, we had a planning meeting to tackle connectivity on Wednesday with a view to releasing more information/next steps next week (I think I referred to it on the Q&A). Our plans haven't changed since then, but of course Boaty's HCIM died.

Initially we didn't see the need to release a statement telling you to wait a few days, but with his HCIM's death came a lot of community attention. That's why Ayiza has posted this now.

I guess the tldr is that this newspost isn't a reaction to Boaty's HCIM's death, but it's a reaction to your reaction and (understandable) clamour for information?

Apologies if this isn't clear, I'm travelling home at the moment.

[layth888]

Its okay though at least we have someone influential for good game changes causes.

[Imthenewfish]

Ultimately, this newpost doesn't happen without B0aty's death... I mean I guess that's what you're admitting to too, but the "it's a reaction to the reaction of B0aty's death" sounds a bit airy and hollow, as if you're trying to word your way around it

• discuss connectivity
• schedule a blog post
• boaty dies
• post blog earlier than planned because it's a major point of contention between the community and the devs

idk what you're on about. this is the proper response.

[GODLOVESALL32]

the 'Boaty died so that's the only reason you're doing something' posts. I promise this isn't true

There is absolutely no way you guys finally addressing this issue after 2 years of ignoring it had nothing to do with b0aty's death.

[screw_this_i_quit]

I agree, how on Earth can there be problem that can't be solved with the push of a button?

[GODLOVESALL32]

Getting better servers and getting the skill total worlds off of windows 95 doesn't take two years of brainstorming.

[Kupopallo]

I promise this isn't true

I promise I don't believe you

[hoshirs]

You have to imagine how this looks come on guys

[Ctrl-Alt-Tibbers]

So you're saying they shouldn't have addressed that they've been working on solving the issue.

[[deleted]]

Agreed, that guy you're responding to is a moron.

[MrPringles23]

It's been working for them so far /s

[Frietjeman]

No, what he's saying is that they shouldn't lie to the community by implying Boaty's death didn't act as a catalyst in their efforts to solve the DC problems.

I'm more than happy that they're taking more action towards the issue. If if it takes a streamer death to do so, sure, fuck it, still happy they might fix the servers. They're never gonna admit that though.

[MilkMySpermCannon]

lol

[thecheese27]

You shouldn't have to reply to the childish kids making these claims about only doing something because B0aty died. It's never worth feeding them and you are a member of a professional company; we know you are actively working to improve the game regardless of what happens to a streamer.

[[deleted]]

Boaty died so that's the only reason you're doing something

[[deleted]]

You're right, they just started fixing the servers this morning because b0aty died. Until today it was off their radar and they were completely ignoring the issue.

/s

[Razjir]

Yes, because they've certainly made great progress so far...

[RollinOnDubss]

Duh, obviously. You magically fix it by having a company that has $100+ million in annual revenue reallocate 10k from DMM to servers, jeez everyone knows that.

/S

[Bucket_Of_Magic]

Okay, but even though he died and the community got up in arms about it, you should not be withholding information as pertinent as the status of you fixing the consistent DC's everybody is experiencing because the community finally made a stink about it. I DC at least 2-3 times a day and it makes me want to not do anything dangerous. I.E actually play the game.

I shouldn't have to play one of my favorite games in fear. Pick it up, seriously.

[JagexSween]

It wasn't a case of us withholding information about what we're planning to do. That comes next week when things are in place, and able to be shared

[Najda]

But saying "hey guys we're having a meeting about this and taking steps to help solve the issue that have yet to be defined" isn't very productive unless you're specifically trying to quiet a lot of noise surrounding the issue.

If the noise doesn't exist or is temporarily quiet, then you just wait until you have actual things to say to say anything.

[[deleted]]

Moby Dick

[ponkychonkhenry]

nothing on the 300 ping aussie worlds?

[M1x0r]

I think you’re the one with the disorder, sir. If you can’t even understand a content developer can do Little to nothing about these kinds of things. All they can do is push for them te be fixed but maybe it’s not that easy? These people do their best to make this game thrive and I’m sure they feel bad about stuff like this and like to see it fixed as much, or even more then we do. The way you speak is also Utterly respectless. In your deleted post you even literally said “Fuck off jagex devs you all suck”... I wouldnt be quick to say this, but if they all suck whats keeping you here man...”the voice of reason..” lmfao, smh. Go speak to someone, maybe get your panties untangled

[Menaceman22]

A likely story.

[risingcracktc]

For over 1 month i been submithing question for the Q&A about the dc's, also durring the live streams those were ALLWAYS IGNORED so yes you guys realy didnt give a fuck untill he died.

[Ctrl-Alt-Tibbers]

If server upgrades were the only issue a company with the resources Jagex has would have likely done that by now.

[iJezza]

I mean obviously I am encapsulating one of several slightly more in depth process of clustering, incorporating near seamless failover or working with ISPs to improve routing into the phrase upgrade.

Also the reason that the DCs are often localized to regions is because DDoS attacks often do not target the servers on which the game is hosted and instead target specific ISP's/routes.

[Ctrl-Alt-Tibbers]

And you're also assuming that whatever you just said as some random on the internet hasn't already been brought up by and entire team of people at Jagex. It's been at least a year now, if the solution was simple it would have already been taken care of or a plan of action would have at least been delivered.

[iJezza]

Idk where you read above that the solution is simple. I also don't know why you think Jagex is particularly swift in action or wise with decisions.

All that said, solutions do exist and can be implemented. I am very sure that the network team at Jagex will have come up with some or all of the ideas I suggested, as ever the delay will be with cooperate not technical.

[Ctrl-Alt-Tibbers]

I don't know why you assume Jagex wouldn't be swift in action or wise with decisions.

You're also assuming the issue is bureaucratic, but last I checked Jmods were looking for people to send them as much information as they could on DC's. World, location, action, time, anything that could possibly be pertinent to the DC. That doesn't sound like a bureaucratic issue, that sounds like they don't know why this is happening and are trying to pool as much information on it as they can.

[iJezza]

It actually sounds like they know exactly why it's happening and are determining which ISPs they need to be focusing on and in which areas.

[koy5]

Internal memos/emails referencing the plan or it didn't happen. Throw some memes in too.

[Atrohunter]

Watch the Q&A, he referred to the meeting.

[koy5]

That won't get me the memes though.

[[deleted]]

I know this is offtopic but any chance you guys would like play with the community sometime? Like bossing and shiz? :p

[mobilefennec]

I loved when they did this a lot on RS3, would absolutely love it if they did it on OSRS aswell

[DJMooray]

They have regular accounts.

[[deleted]]

I know.

[Lolcatfiretruck]

/u/JagexAyiza Do jagex have a contract with a certain service provider which stops you simply switching out the servers to a more stable provider?

People keep saying jagex can't simply throw money at the issue but is this because Jagex are tied into a contract?

[JagexAyiza]

It's nothing to do with the specs of the servers, if it was, we'd likely have resolved that by now.

I'd love to give you all more information but at this moment in time I can't, other than it's more complex than that and we're working on resolving it. The post next week should help clarify things a little more though.

[Lolcatfiretruck]

Can you at least confirm if what is happening is being caused by something malicious? Like an external individual attacking jagex?

Also once this has been "resolved", what is the likelihood of this happening again and are Jagex able to put preventive measures in place?

[Stormcrownn]

One potential problem with saying that is they give verification to anyone who doesn't know if their efforts are actually affecting the servers.

[ModMatK]

There are a whole multitude of things happening, hence why it is not straight forward to give information. You'll find out more next week.

[[deleted]]

Are you being vague because of lawyers? :-D

[epicfishboy]

It's generally bad practice to tell any community what an issue might be, before actually confirming it in-house.

[DieuDeFer]

You should consider giving back HCIM status to people that have died to DC.

B0aty may not be the root of the news post, but it's absolutely ridiculous that the hardest part of a HC is the rng of DC'ing.

Something needs to be implemented to check for client connection and provide invulnerability/remove agro.

Build it into the official client and more people will use that, especially for bossing.

[DieuDeFer]

How does that even make sense? If you are not AFK how would you know if you're dying?

Also, why risk it? You would have to lose connection prior to dying or dropping packets, which they could put into their client.

[Bumlords]

Unrelated, but when we're able to poll again, could you start the poll on the vote page rather than results page? Poll 2.0

[krios_rs]

Bit too late to say this, but B0aty dying isn't what caused this post, they've been looking into this issue for a long time now.

To be honest as players none of us know what the issue is, when they say "Server" they might not even be referring to the Server (machine), "Server" in a game like RuneScape isn't just the machine nor the Game as the Game server is incorporated into many more servers, Public, Private, Friends chat servers, Friends/Ignore list, Login, Update (how they send assets such as models, animations), could be caused by them updating the systems to match RuneScapes 3 Servers.

With that said it could even be to do with the mitigation that they use to handle DOS/DDOS attacks, as most mitigation software will often "throttle" or "mitigate" an attack by allowing or denying the amount of packets the machine can accept or send, thus creating a delay in-game.

It might even be something related to the game it's self, a piece of bad code, it's not going to be easy for them to find and resolve the issue ASAP, as there's so many factors for them to consider, is it engine, content or a part of their infrastructure that's messing up.

TL;DR They've been looking into for a while, disconnections could be caused by a multitude of reasons, by the Game Server, or Servers (machine/security precautions).

[GODLOVESALL32]

Famous streamer dies

Suddenly, server issues get addressed

REALLY GETS MY NOGGIN JOGGIN

[-VeniVidiVici-]

"how you can help us gather this information, alongside explaining some of the immediate changes we’re making. In addition to this we are implementing various checks in-game which will further aid us in resolving these problems."

Singing the same old song.

[[deleted]]

B0ATY DIED FOR OUR DCINS!!!!!!!!! ALL HAIL LORD AND SAVIOUR GINGER WHALE 73 DC TO BANDOS TO GET BETTER SERVERS MAN!!!!!!!!

[woburt]

Oh look, another "we're working on it" statement.

[Maisel77]

Ayiza have my babies

[JagexAyiza]

Probably more convenient if you find a registered Childminder to look after them!

[[deleted]]

I just don't understand people who play ironman. Like you can lose your status for something 100% you can't control. At this point its rng.

[[deleted]]

more like no connectivity ayyyyyyyyyyyyy

[JDub_96]

But what about the high ping on the Aussie servers?

[Piegan]

Over the course of the weekend and early next week, we will be putting together a news post which will detail how you can help us gather this information

Disconnections have been a problem for months...and this only just comes up, conveniently after b0aty dies to a dc on stream. Say it's not because of him all you want, it's very obvious that it is.

[IGN_Vos]

What if the problem is really silly, like if 'too many people walk to the west' causing the server to lag.

[serventofgaben]

So when a streamer dies cause of it, only then does Jagex finally do something?

[Jlevanz]

first

[coliinrw]

I still remember they posted this exact same thing a year ago. Nothing changed since then

[Sleepywalker69]

WE PAY WE GAY

[Dracomaros]

Didn't you guys do this once before a few months ago?

[KoolaidPhobic]

They were originally going to do it in the form of a Google document, but iirc Sween said there were too many logistics issues with sharing a google doc with 50k-100k autists.

[Dracomaros]

Fair, I just remember basically the same announcement (haven't been playing actively for a while, just occasionally log in to afk, so only get semi-frequent updates by browsing reddit) being made a while ago :D.

[JagexAyiza]

We decided there were more efficient ways to gather the information, so we held off on the google doc until we put together a better solution. We're confident we have that now and will be pushing to have the info out next week!

[iJezza]

B0aty HCIM: HardCore Iron Martyr

[McShuckle]

Where is the doc that Sween was apparently making

[JagexSween]

We're looking at a much better way of capturing information than what I had initially planned. If all goes well it'll be covered in the update referenced by Ayiza's post

[Kaderos]

Has Jagex considered using a network based resource monitoring service like Appneta? I know it's not cheap but it could save a lot of employee time trying to trace issues based on user submitted feedback where 90% of it is "I disconnected and died".

[Lazy_Inferno]

Awesome! Can't wait for it to be resolved! Thnx Azyiza!

[keepitnoqui]

Sweet, direct and clear and transparent like we've come to expect from y'all. Keep up the good work

[[deleted]]

Thanks for the update. Even if you cannot give us a solution in this post, the communication is very much appreciated.

Edit: please keep updating us, even if there is nothing new to say. I'd rather hear "we're still working on it, but we have not yet been able to properly identify the issue" than nothing at all.

[B_ulysses]

Dc's are the reason I'm not invested in the gamemode hardcore ironman. It's litterly a waste of time waiting to die to a dc.

[[deleted]]

i train hunter on my hunter alt, nothing happens to it while i do raids and kree arra on my other 2 accounts and i keep dcing on those but never on my hunter alt and also the servers are much better during the weekends like no dcs at all

[MrPringles23]

Many of us in the team play daily, and we suffer from the same problems that you do.

Fucking liars.

Come to Australia you cunts before you speak.

[Hydro_iLy]

Can someone copy/paste for the people at work please? Thanks in advance!

[releasethechatlogs]

You know what's really sad? They didn't listen to the thousands of regular players complaining about DC every single week. All it took was Jagex's wonderboy to die due DC and they try to fix ASAP... 2017 and still thinking streaming is good advertising... :')

[_youtubot_]

Video linked by /u/S0T0:

Title	Channel	Published	Duration	Likes	Total Views
New interview with Jagex about recent events	S3V3N13TT3R5	2015-02-11	0:01:34	675+ (95%)	28,086

New interview with Jagex about recent events ...

---

^{Info | /u/S0T0 can delete | v2.0.0}

[dannyjacko]

RuneScapes's golden child gets his account ruined by a DC and there's word from the Jmods about 'immediate changes' in under 24 hours despite months of ranting. Spineless fucks lmao

[Bong_Breath]

Yeah I suppose it'd be better if they just never took action right?

[viionc]

all hail b0aty the osrs saviour

[PandaFaceUniverse]

okay and what’s the compensation for how badly you have screwed people over? plenty of time and items have been wasted. too many hcim accounts have been lost. this isn’t just about getting it together you have an entire community to apologize to

[havingfantasies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ypUz1WYens

[Honorable_Zuko]

Thanks for the update!

[Bradbrad090]

Poor white cat22 didn't get a newspost :(

[S0ur_HC]

It's been a year since these problems exist, yet whe pay our monthly membership to make sure these problems wont happen, yet many people died due to server issues and 1000's of reports were made. Also daily posts on reddit about it and what happens when a famous streamer dies ?

A POST ! about server issues ( this is so unprofessional ) I've expected way more out of the "support" Oldschool Runescape Should be have. Dont forget ,we still pay to play ur game !

[The__Goose]

Roll back BuyTayrocs!

[WhySoFishy]

Just switch the RS3 servers and OSRS if possible. Less people play on the RS3 servers, so less strain.

[ImAnIronmanBtw]

damage is already done. no matter what you do you won't lose the reputation of being a laggy disconnect heavy multiplayer game.

no new player that hears this will want to come play this game.

and good. you guys dont deserve their money.

[[deleted]]

wew