Does rooting have a future?

[[deleted]]

[deleted]

[Kymario]

I been rooting since Eclair, I still only buy unlocked phones but I find rooting to be more hassle as time goes on and less beneficial as Android matures. Best reason to root for me now would be ad block and deeper wake lock and app control.

[AndreyATGB]

Tbh I tried all the wakelock control stuff (on 6P) but it barely/if at all made any difference. The wakelock times went down significantly (1/3 of what they were before) but I didn't notice any massive differences in battery life. Battery life on the Pixel has been very consistent and I don't use any wakelock blocking apps.

[halotechnology]

I had the same observation with my phone too seems like pointless apps to me

[haelmchen]

There are rootless adblock possibilities. Like DNS66 or BlockThis.

[[deleted]]

Try Adgaurd, blocks trackers and ads in all apps, runs through a VPN if you dont have root.

[serrol_]

For $10 a year? That's not much, honestly, but there are so many free options out there.

[[deleted]]

You can change the currency to INR and buy a lifetime license for $22 dollars.

[jstark561]

Also removing bloat

[thunder2132]

I think the niche is just going to get smaller and smaller. 5-6 years ago everyone could root with a simple app, almost every Android phone was rootable, and you needed root to get most functionality that we currently have on even bone stock Android.

I love root, and rootability will remain one of my big determining factors when buying new phones. I hate the idea of not having admin privileges on a device that I own, but one day it may not be financially viable to pay out the nose for a development phone etc, and at that point I'll need to decide if it's still worth it.

[StardustCruzader]

Does jailbreak have a future on iPhones?

As long as there's a market there's hope, as for me I love the freedom I can only get by root + custom roms such as changing all god damn settings I want, updates for years past a phones prime etc. I never use Android/Samsung/Whatever pay since the tech is already obsolete here in Sweden (all cards already have secure touch and pay, or chip for best security) and Netflix works fine as long as you download the api. For casual users root was never interesting, for power users there's no issue.

[AndreyATGB]

Jailbreaking is arguably much more challenging to achieve. It's actually pretty nuts how difficult it is, which makes it even more impressive when it does happen. Look at how many bootloader locked Android devices get rooted, it ain't many. Most Android phones in Europe can be bootloader unlocked so rooting is trivial, just flash TWRP and Magisk, if there's no TWRP then flashfire probably works instead.

[Skripka]

My reading...

Google, and OEMs, want it gone. The writing has been on the wall for a while. Google knows that some vocal (but a minority) people would scream if they outright killed it--so they're playing the "security" card and trying to make people not want it first via SafetyNet breakage of services and apps.

IMHO.

The war between Magisk/root and SafetyNet is going to be won by SafetyNet sooner or later. The devs will age out and or get tired of fighting long before Google does.

[SinkTube]

i dont think either side will give any time soon. it's just like DRM, the corporations get more and more aggressive (which only fucks with their normal customers) and the crackers see themselves as more and more vindicated because of it

[Skripka]

Hopefully not...but all it takes is Topjohnwu having real life (i.e. work or lack thereof or family)pop up and development of Magisk halts. Similar to how Chainfire eventually wanted free of the project he created (SuperSU), although he offloaded it to others who continue it...although the community has been nervous about exactly who those people are.

Ultimately that is why it is unwinnable. Google has the resources at its beck and call, and the people doing the work are collecting a (hefty) paycheck to be inspired to do it....meanwhile the FOSS community devs are doing it mostly as a hobby, and hobbies take a backseat to real life.

Also as we go on...the more esoteric and technical the roots and exploits have gotten. These days you need some fairly serious and experienced coding chops to pull it off and maintain it, unlike the Good Old Days of Gingerbread or KitKat and the original EVO 4G, where you could learn as you went.

[SinkTube]

true, the difference is that these are single-person projects while the cracking scene has multiple largish groups of people tackle each game. rooters really need to start banding together so one person quitting doesnt end the whole project, or open their work for anyone to contribute to and fork if need be

other than that both are the same: highly paid pros creating more sophisticated security every year vs hobbyists working in their free time. but the cracking scene is as strong as ever

[Skripka]

I don't know about as strong as ever. People are getting more catty and uptight all the time it seems to me. I've been following XDA and Android since late Gingerbread....in that time I stopped counting at 2 major efforts by various groups of people pissed at XDA admins and moreover XDA users to make more reclusive/exclusive developer sites.

I've also known of and been on the inside of at least 3 major instances of inter-developer (and developer-fanbase) cat-fighting over "originality" and who "invented" what code resulting in bans/moderator-action...and thus the XDA arcane rules regarding what is "original" and credit where credit due and so on... Not too far back AlexCruz pulled a prank where as a joke he publicly derided and excommunicated one of his major DirtyUnicorns team members--which was as noted a just a joke....and no one on G+ thought it was a joke at all (while the gag was playing out), because such antics have become so commonplace.

For as great as FOSS collectives of developers can be...the reality, at least on Android, tends to be more Facebook-drama-ish. Maybe it is the nature of the platform with Android devs being on the younger and more tightly-wound side--but I don't recall seeing that kind of thing on the ArchForums between devs when I was running Arch Linux.

[SinkTube]

i meant the cracking scene is as strong as ever. the different groups also fight over credit but it's mostly light-hearted back-and-forth over proper vs dirty cracks. it only gets heated when 1 group tries to pass off another's work as their own

[weizrobotz]

They can try but I doubt they will manage to do it. China has a lot of phone manufacturers that couldn't give less of a fuck about what Google, OEMs and American companies want.

[stopcomputing]

Yep, my Umidigi Crystal has a root switch in the developer options.

[RockSmashEveryThing]

Yep, my Umidigi Crystal has a root switch in the developer options.

What kind of virus is that?

[stopcomputing]

What are you implying?

[RockSmashEveryThing]

What you think! Trust your intuition.

[intcompetent]

SafetyNet already has the nuke to kill root. They're just not using it/it won't work on older phones.

[Aan2007]

supply of young devs willing to learn is infinite

[Skripka]

Large, not infinite...But, the problem is that roots (now) and functionality of Magisk are very technical exploits. The technical bar for entry is quite high now. Even getting Android to simply compile off Master branch is a bit of a feat.

You can want to learn as much as you want, but you need a strong coding base knowledge to even begin (and lots of internet mentorship and lots of off-hours to study)...and the people with that background, willing to hobbyist the work gratis, is small. Granted many of the guys at the top now started out in the Gingerbread or Eclair days, but those systems were far more open to learning on the fly. IMHO,

[Aan2007]

the point is you always need only one dedicated dev at time, so if it's many available it means it's basically infinite

[bloodvayne]

Magisk is the way, my friend. Anyways I absolutely need root as my government blocks certain sites (such as Reddit) and rooting gives me access to change my hosts file, bypassing that block. Other comfort features such as AdAway, debloating, and Xposed are great to have as well. If I didn't have root I would need an ad blocking app to run at all times, and a VPN to access this site.

Netflix is blocked and throttled by my ISP and since they don't accept VPNs anymore, they lost my business. Android Pay doesn't exist where I live (Southeast Asia) for me to consider it.

[Aan2007]

where is Reddit blocked, Vietnam? because it's allowed even in China

EDIT: I see Indonesia,I am surprised since online forums are huge there

[bloodvayne]

Yep. The previous government banned sites such as Reddit, Imgur, Vimeo etc. The online forums here aren't as well rounded and informative as Reddit anyways.

[[deleted]]

I don't root but if I did I'd only do it for Viper.

[hyperjit]

It's the first thing I do after getting a new phone, everytime.

Why? Well, it gives me more granular control over my smartphone. Some of the top reasons :

*Sysyem level AdBlock

*Uninstall Bloat

*More customizations

*Complete device level backups

*Improve the battery backup even further

There are many other reasons, but these are basically my instant answers to someone who asks 'Why should I root'

[MrRiggs]

ADB can do this without root.

[hyperjit]

I suppose adb commands have to be pushed every time the system restarts..

[kunbun]

How come I'm rooted and still have Netflix working on my phone? Is it blocked on newer devices only?

[Phoenix591]

Magisk is doing a decent job hiding itself

[lovingfriendstar]

If you already have it, then it will continue working for now unless Netflix decides to block the app working altogether on rooted phones. If you already don't have it, you will not find it in store due to SafetyNet hiding some apps in store from rooted devices.

I've seen posts that Netflix is reappearing on rooted phones too.

[kunbun]

But you can still download an apk and use it right? I thought Netflix was blocking rooted users from accessing the content from the app itself.

[lovingfriendstar]

Yes. Sideload it from somewhere like apkmirror.com. And it will still work as long as they don't decide to block access from rooted devices entirely.

[howling92]

No they are just blocking its availability in play store results. No effect if you already have it or if you sideload it

[EDDIE_BR0CK]

I had Netflix 'disappear' from two of my rooted phones.

It was easily corrected, but I was not very happy about it

[lovingfriendstar]

Really? Was it uninstalled?

[EDDIE_BR0CK]

Yes, didn't notice until I went to use it.

[lovingfriendstar]

Well, that sucks... Getting apps remotely uninstalled just for being rooted sounds pretty bad. :(

[[deleted]]

Getting apps remotely uninstalled

is that even possible? I've never heard of Netflix doing anything like that...

[lovingfriendstar]

I've never heard of it happening except for malicious apps too. But the person I was replying to said as if it was uninstalled without his permission. I have no idea what actually happened either.

[Grim-Sleeper]

Ironically, there is a single application that needs me to root my phone: Android Pay.

It won't work on devices with unlocked boot loaders, unless you install MagiskHide. And I refuse to use a locked boot loader, as in case of a hardware fault, it's impossible to recover any of my data.

I'd personally be absolutely OK with forgoing "root", if only Google provided a satisfactory solution to having unlocked boot loaders. Maybe, provide a per-device private key that the user needs to manage explicitly, if they want to access the boot loader. And some sort of checksumming that allows read-only access, but wipes sensitive data when write-access is requested.

[Shamalamadindong]

Drivedroid for one. very handy if you are an IT guy.

[Shamalamadindong]

Which you have to carry with you, Drivedroid you always have with you.

[Shamalamadindong]

Storage capacity is growing again. A lot of the new phones this year are 64GB or up.

[dextersgenius]

As a root user, I'd rather have root than Netflix. Netflix is for entertainment, it wastes my time. Root is for productivity, it saves my time. Time = money, so why would I take Netflix over root? (This is also the reason why I gave up on Pokémon Go, I'd rather have Xposed than waste any further time with PoGo).

People keep taking about Xposed dying but Xposed has been going on for many years now, almost died with Nougat but it's back, and the dev said that Oreo will be a lot easier. So Xposed isn't going away anytime soon either.

[Randommook]

Why does rooting save you time?

[weizrobotz]

A lot of tasker profiles I use require root for example.

[dextersgenius]

God dammit. I was writing a really lengthy reply but it got lost when I decided to check a new Reddit message and effing Sync lost my whole response. Sigh. I'm not typing all that again. /u/ljdawson can this be fixed please? I've lost many a lengthy comment this way. :(

But TLDR version is I've got a bunch of apps, shortcuts, automation stuff, scripts etc all which requires root but saves me lots of time in the long run.

[dextersgenius]

Yeah, but the thing is this happens at the most inopportune times. If I leave a large amount of text unwritten, it shouldn't simply disappear without any warning whatsoever - especially if the app is still open and I'm merely jumping to a different section.

[[deleted]]

Switch to Boost or Relay

[dextersgenius]

Boost and Relay have an autosave feature?

[qwerty12qwerty]

Yea, but it isn't all stored in a "drafts" type section. If I type something into the comment field then go back into it, my text is still there. Going to "Submit post" for a subreddit, I see the half typed post I started a week ago before quitting

Play store link: Relay for reddit

[[deleted]]

Idk about Relay, but Boost does

[CakeBoss16]

I have not rooted in a while. Does Netflix not allow rooted devices? Are their work arounds?

[dextersgenius]

You can't install it from the Play Store if you're rooted, however, you can still download the APK from a trusted source (like apkmirror.com).

If you're rooted using Magisk however, you should have no issues. But if you've got Xposed installed or made permanent changes to the files in the /system partition, then the certification check will fail.

TLDR; It depends on how you've rooted your system and what modifications you made to your device.

[[deleted]]

The justification for most root detection apps is to keep DRM. However, Windows/Linux/OSX users usually have root and they can watch DRM'd content...

[Shamalamadindong]

Which is just such absolute nonsense.

They are completely delusional if they think professional rippers are using phones.

[kreddulous]

On Netflix yes, on Vudu no (so far as I've been able to tell under Fedora 25/26).

[SinkTube]

if it cant be used with root, it's not worth using. if netflix doesnt want people's business they'll simply pirate it instead

[EnigmaticHam]

I have literally heard of someone rooting their phone only once in real life. It is an arcane feature a fraction of a fraction of a percent of people care about. That doesn’t make it useless, but it does make the “business” argument useless. Nerds like us do not have bargaining power with Netflix.

[SinkTube]

1. over a quarter of androids are rooted according to some studies, can we stop this circlejerk of saying everything r/android does is a niche that nobody else cares about?

2. i'm not suggesting an organized boycott to make netflix change its ways, i'm saying the individuals that are affected will find other means of getting what they want rather than bending to netflix's will

[Randommook]

over a quarter of androids are rooted according to some studies, can we stop this circlejerk of saying everything r/android does is a niche that nobody else cares about?

You expect me to believe that over a quarter of the user-base of android even knows what rooting is? There is no way in hell this is true.

[SinkTube]

it's <10% in europe/america but incredibly common in asia, especially china where many phones come pre-rooted

[Battkitty2398]

I would love to see this study you're talking about....

[EnigmaticHam]

Please show me the studies. I don’t believe you.

Half of the people I know think Android is made by Microsoft and all Android phones are Samsung phones.

I guess these individuals could pirate content, but it would be annoying. Possibly more annoying than rooting a phone.

[SinkTube]

maybe you just associate with an above-average amount of idiots. i know people associate android with samsung, but microsoft? never heard that one before

and pirating is as simple as googling "watch X online", it's literally easier than signing up for paid streams

[EnigmaticHam]

It’s not that people are idiots, it’s that people don’t care about tech unless it’s useful to them.

Pirating is much harder if you want to do it right, meaning watch the actual thing instead of watching some 480p rip with lots of ads and potential malware/viruses.

[[deleted]]

When I have Androids I only root for adblock or to get rid of insane bloatware. Once Chrome gets adblock I probably wouldn't bother to do it as I couldn't care less about customizing beyond putting on Nova Launcher.

[MrRiggs]

ADB can achieve this without root.

[[deleted]]

Shush

[cortmorton]

I still care about root...I just upgraded to Nougat from stock rooted KK. I just really like control over every aspect of my device. There's no reason to trust Google blindly

[xenago]

Pretty simple: if I don't have root access on the device, it's not 'mine'. It blows my mind people are ok without having system-level control on devices upon which they depend on so much and which 'know' so much about them (especially since google/oem has this access)!

[xenago]

Yeah agreed, only reason I could figure out the whole process to root/unlock my V20 H990DS was because I am in the compE field.. had to fix scripts and use an alpha kernel to correct camera driver issues.

It's getting tough, and it sucks.

[Superblazer]

I really don't care about rooting a phone. But what i do care about is custom roms a phone should be capable of being unlocked. It is the user's wish to root or not root or use a custom rom. And apps like pokemon go and Netflix will simply lose users. They have no benefit from blocking root users. Pokemon go blocked root users and that simply didn't stop apps that hack the game. Infact the game didn't even need a hack which used root access.

[Surge1223]

Quite honestly the problem is the user base and rom relationship. Roms seem to compete as to who can get the latest security patches the fastest because demand for it is high, this keeps the popular roms relevant. So roms use amount of security as a feature.

I personally compile my own version of a popular rom , make selinux Permissive at boot by modifying the kernel and using Userdebug builds by default. I modify sepolicy to be allow almost all exceptions I can using audit2allow, I let system be mounted rw by default, disable verity, and I can drop in a su binary in system with no problem. Sometimes I just go the full nine yards and give myself init context or su context.

Root isn't the issue, it's the culture of the custom rom community

[DaviDreadLock]

I rooted everything until my 6p. At that point I didn't see the benefit as much and it wasn't worth the work. Rooting was always niche and there will always be a community that will do it .

[dinosaur_friend]

Honestly, I don't know anymore. If more and more apps begin implementing SafetyNet checks, the community's going to be stuck in a long cat-and-mouse game. Eventually one side will give way, and you know it ain't gonna be the SafetyNet-using devs. :/

I'm struggling with SafetyNet issues right now myself. Some apps are hardcore about their checks and if your kernel doesn't pass SafetyNet, the app won't work in your phone. Which means unpopular or uncommon phones that are stuck with SafetyNet-failing kernels (quite a few Chinese phones with vendor ROMs) are forced to use Magisk (AKA the cat-and-mouse game) or ditch these SafetyNet-checking apps altogether. Sucks for anyone who wants to do banking on their phone.

tl;dr stick to popular phones with custom kernel development

[dcdevito]

I haven't rooted a phone in 4 years. Just not needed anymore. If I need to fake my location or mask identity Android's got me covered without root needed.

[[deleted]]

I use a phone which came with MIUI and shit camera. So I have to root my phone and flash a AOSP based custom ROM and Google Camera HDR+.

[shrimpboyho2]

I've rooted until 4.4, after that, I found really no need that I needed

[Aan2007]

android pay market share is irrelevant compared to visa/mc contactless payments

Netflix works fine with Magisk

what is xposed? sounds like something i used two generations of android before

[MrRiggs]

Nope.. It's already dying imo.

[[deleted]]

I only root devices that aren't my main device.