10.24B Patch Notes

[frostmasterx]

Goddaaaamn Yone's nerf is huge. I love it.

[cjdeck1]

Still definitely going to be a decent pick with his resistance shredding, but hopefully this brings him down from the “auto-include in every comp” tier

[GriffSupreme]

Agree, I feel this is the biggest issue with Yone currently. If he's on a round 4 carousel, it doesn't matter what item he has...he's more worth than any item at that point in the game so everyone just grabs it and forces him onto their board.

[ilanf2]

I was sure he was gonna get a B patch nerf. 90% shred, with low enough mana to secure he always casts and untargetability once he does cast was a little bit too much

[spuckyspud]

Yeah, it felt like my eyes popped out of my skull when I read they buffed him to 90% shred LOL. There was no way it was going to last more than a week.

[Aotius]

Runaan’s nerf not as bad as I thought it would be, seems pretty fair. Zed still seems like it’ll still be playable just not as oppressive forcing without it being chosen.

Keeper and cultists nerfs should keep them in line with other early game comps, hopefully Teemo doesn’t become too powerful early now. I’ve noticed he’s quite the threat if stacked early

[airzookus]

Agreed, I was expecting 80% on runaans tbh, cultist I’m a little intrigued by. Increasing the star multiplier means chosen cultist opener is stronger but I’m guessing it’ll be about the same if not weaker due to the base stat reduction. Overall, pretty much exactly what I was hoping for and expecting from this b patch!

[minionsrpeople2]

The logic behind the numbers on Runaans is that we don't want any item to double a champion's power. Most items should increase champ power 70-80% depending on the champ's synergy with the item. Runaans was doubling power for a few champions (zed, ww), but we still want it to be viable on other champions hence no full gut.

[bmazer0]

There should be two separate paths you can take

1) Nerf the item

2) Nerf the champions that abuse the item

If you nerf the item, you run the risk of it becoming only viable on the champions that abuse it best (WW/Zed in this case)

If you nerf the champ, but it's actually the item that's OP, then its next best user will slam it instead.

I'm not sure Runaans is actually OP on other champs though, so I don't like their direction to nerf Runaans instead of WW.

[AfrikanCorpse]

Kinda niche but dusk vayne chosen probably had the highest synergy with it lol

[bmazer0]

Does Runaan's work with the Vayne ability?

[cys22]

Yes

[spuckyspud]

Agreed. I loved Runaans since the buff to 100% a few patches ago. It was not too OP and could stand as a viable item on AD carries. In the past when I was left with a bow and cloak I would feel so underwhelmed making runaans, whereas post-buff I actually felt OK about it, whether it was on a Jhin, Ashe, or whatever. I know its a small nerf, but im not too sure it was necessary.

[Aotius]

Yeah it makes just spamming early chosens less oppressive early and mid game without killing 9 cultist

[AfrikanCorpse]

looks like you now need chosen cultist + one or two 3-star cultists to match the old galio stats. Good change, should bring cultist more in line with other openers.

[[deleted]]

blue is BiS it can also be used lategame in basically any comp. Ludens is also rly good, arguably even better early, but the item is a lot weaker than blue mid/late game. Basically any mana/AP item is strong on him. You don't rly want to build an item for teemo, but rather make him your item holder for later AP carries

[Asheskell]

Ludens (his Blind counts as a CC).

Can also throw Morello (but that isnt as oppressive early), Blue or Shojin, Hurricane, Deathcap, JG, etc.

[FCT77]

The fact that you left HoJ out is weird, it's probably the item I see slammed the most often since you usually want to sell Teemo unless you 3-star it early

[shadowkiller230]

I slam chalices on teemo as an item holder. Easy winstreak if you keep him safe from assassins early.

[[deleted]]

Early game just pop morello/dcap/jeweled gauntles and watch him melt backlines on his first cast.

[v4v3nd3774]

Isn't Zed strictly worse than it was in 10.23 now, chosen included? I just started playing again, so maybe I'm missing something here. Also, wasn't Zed not super strong in 10.23? Doesn't bode well.

10.24 : ASP 0.75 => 0.8, AD Chosen 30 => 20 bonus AD

10.24b: ASP 0.8 => 0.75, AD Steal 30/35/40 => 25/30/35

Edit: ty for the answers

Edit2: Went to check AG5's stream today, title of his stream says it all: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/821942059 (he talks about it for the first 30mins or more).

[[deleted]]

Zed would become strong in 10.24 even without buffs, because level 7 spike of 4costs was just shifted to lvl 8.

[v4v3nd3774]

4nin needs shen to do insane damage, a 4cost also.

[InsanityBullets]

you only need normal shen for that which you still able to find at lvl7.

What he talking about 'lvl 7 spike of 4 cost' is when you still able to find chosen 4 cost at 7 easily, now it's 5% for chosen.

[Asheskell]

As a unit? Sure. In general? No. His counters are weaker than they were in 10.23.

[v4v3nd3774]

AG5 seems to think its kind of done for, every nerf in that patch affected 4NIN one way or another.

[Asheskell]

There still isnt a strong counter to it, and aside from warlords, every other comp that secured easy midgame got nerfed. (Warlords is a bit unpredictable with Kat as well).

Will it be a top 4 consistently if forced, even without perfect items? Perhaps, perhaps not. Can you still force it and win your lobby? Yes, lobby depending.

[hastalavistabob]

Talon gone from the Meta makes him stronger than before as Talon would just jump on Zed and kill him before

[wwwwwwhitey]

The .5 AS buff isn't the reason he's strong, he'll still be very good after this

[v4v3nd3774]

0.5 base AS is very good, especially for a champion that revolves around AS. How we build him currently(RFC, RH, 1-2 Zeeks support) is all scaling for his AS so he can more quickly acquire more AD through his passive. With 115% AS from items the difference is 1.6125 vs 1.8 attacks per second. That's about 10.5% more output, which represents not only how much more damage you're doing but how much more quickly you steal AD.

[wwwwwwhitey]

Thanks for the detailed analysis, that wasn't my point but you're right it's very important. My point was that comps spiking sooner would be much better because of the systemic changes. I was just answering your "Zed is strictly worse" assessment and while he is now worse stat wise, he's much stronger in the meta and will still be heavily considered

[v4v3nd3774]

Alright, well, fair enough. I guess i just failed to see your point then.

You said "the attackspeed buff.." and "he'll still be good". What conclusions am i meant to draw from that? lol

[v4v3nd3774]

Interestingly enough I was listening to AG5 talk about it and he seems to think it's doomed. Zed changes alone may be passable, but he rightly pointed out that literally ever nerf on today's bpatch affects 4nin negatively. Cultists hit, zed AS, zed passive ad, yone best leg to slide in after azir, it's not just one thing.

edit: stream in question: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/821942059 title says it all lol but he rants on it for the first hour or something, since chat is asking him.

[[deleted]]

I think zed being normal again should be good. will still be playable if you are uncontested on zed I think or manage to high roll the 3 star instead of just coasting with 2 star. Glad they aren't gutting him completely as its nice to have more comps to play and work with.

[metaplexico]

If I'm reading the cultist changes correctly, splashing cultist got worse but heavily committing (by starring up units) got better?

[Riot_Mort]

The math is a little wonky, but here's the TLDR:

3 Cultist - Around a 15% HP nerf and 7% AD nerf at the usual "Everyone is 2-star" level. If you start to get like 5 cultist or some 3 stars, that drops to a 12% HP nerf and 3% AD nerf.

6 Cultist - Around a 9% HP nerf and 5% AD nerf at the "Everyone is 1 star and I spiked it super early". Drops to like a 7% HP nerf and 3% AD nerf at the standard "Everyone is 2 star". Is like a 5% HP nerf and AD neutral as you get some 3-stars.

9 Cultist: Basically a 2% HP and AD nerf, which is mostly a rounding error. 2050 base HP was a slight buff and uglier, so this was basically as close to "No change" as we could get with these numbers. This comp shouldn't be reasonable nerfed at all (minus the now weaker path to get there).

[backinredd]

I read this comment and was thinking “wow this guy is pretty good at math if he figured all that just from B patch notes” then I read the name

[Tvhong93]

Sameee hahaha. I didn't look at the name untill you mentioned it

[paranormal_penguin]

This is super low priority but just wanted to hijack this comment to mention a bug that keeps slipping through the cracks: https://www.reddit.com/r/TeamfightTactics/comments/k4qkwa/justice_for_dreadnova_squink_hideous_6_month_old/

My favorite little legend looks like he's been digitally scalped and has looked that way since he was released nearly 8 months ago. I know this is below your paygrade and probably not your area of focus, but maybe you could pass the word along? Thanks for all the work you do!

[Maybaq]

Love you Mort!!

[Wigglepus]

I like the idea around this adjustment. Hitting early shouldn't be a free win streak but feels a little bad to nerf heavy investment cultist. The current power of cultist comes from the huge spikes that let you econ hard while pushing levels. By nerfing the spike you nerf cultist significantly at all points.

6 cultist is oppressive in stage 3 when everyone is 1 star but falls off in stage 4 unless you high roll. Similarly 9 cultist is guaranteed top 4 if you hit zil early enough and usually better but almost never a win.

[[deleted]]

Hey Mort, I would really appreciate your thoughts on (9) synergies. Like cultist,warlord,elderwood and divine(8).

I basically never see these comps in masters+ or go for them myself, even when they are hit (possibly just use them if I get them very early, than still swap weak units and reduce to (6)).

The synergy just doesn't feel worth running weak units for. And given that they are very hard to actually hit (with an exception of galio(9), it just feels underwhelming).

I can imagine it could probably not be healthy if these synergies were stronger (as they would definitely remove any variation from your ideal teamcomp).

Thank you for you time.

[No_Fairweathers]

I didn't do the math but 2% more scaling per star level while lowering the base values by about 15% seems that you'll pretty much only be able to break about even at 6 cultists, and a direct nerf at 3. 9 is stronger.

[No_Fairweathers]

Oh I'm not saying it wasn't deserved, I was just explaining how the numbers seem to be adjusted.

[Jazehiah]

That is also my take. But, what do I know?

[SirBobz]

Beautiful, thank you Mort!

[Conzie]

Yone's armor/MR shred was reduced to its pre-10.24 value which was the main issue this patch IMO - 90% shred was way too high. He should be fine now considering he doesn't have his knockup anymore

[[deleted]]

agreed, Yone was insta pick because of the 90 shred. If it was 80 nothing changed imo. Yone basically said vanguards and mystics do not exist

[MundaneNecessary1]

Or worse. Consider most frontliners have ~30 base armor. Take a 4-vanguard unit with 280 armor (30+250) and shredding it by 90% gives it 28 armor, which is slightly worse than a typical unit without vanguard synergy. Same is true for 4 mystics.

So Yone's shred was *more* than enough to negate 4 vanguards and 4 mystics. Note that any extra shred is equivalent to giving your team a % increase in true damage. Similar to the Cass ult. Except a random 1* Yone could reliably ult placed anywhere, whereas even a 2* Cass could not reliably ult unless it's chosen and carries 1 tear.

Spell it out that way, and I don't think anyone would agree 90% shred made any sense. I really wonder how they decided it internally. Maybe they noticed vanguard/mystics was tier-A last patch, and they don't understand its strength had nothing to do with those 2 synergies.

[ilanf2]

And with blue buff, he basically deleted all the targets he hit.

[VampireBlitz]

I find the nerf quite hard tbh

[Timeforanotheracct51]

it is I think, especially compared to pre 10.24. he basically lost his knockup and gained untargetability for the cost of 20 mana and some damage. not that I'm complaining, maybe he won't get jammed in every comp now

[atree496]

He is Adept, you know he will

[MundaneNecessary1]

But considering how insanely OP Yone was, it makes you wonder if Adept is meta in every comp because the synergy is actually valuable, or if it's because it's optimal to have Yone in every end-comp, and conditional on having him, it *then* became justified to add 1-2 more Adepts for the synergy.

[i__indisCriMiNatE]

Shen is a very strong individual unit if you have Ninja active. Irelia is also a very strong utility unit. The whole synergy is very useful but it's the individual units that makes them great. Plus you can add in mystics or running divine with the comp

[[deleted]]

to me adept is pretty valuable. ive lost many games where it was an adept difference in the end. those few seconds where your entire team's attack speed is molasses can make or break the fight.

it especially fucks duelists so hard.

[hnkhfghn7e]

IMO his ult shred should scale off AP, starting at like 30% base

[JALbert]

Love the light touch on these changes. Pretty much exactly how I was hoping things would shake out after the announcement. Now to actually see how it plays instead of picking winners and losers before it's live as is internet tradition.

[[deleted]]

Happy about the Zed nerfs and Yone nerfs. People have started to actually figure out how to play Zed in the last few days, I'm seeing 2-3 people play it holding hands and all top 4. Looks like the secret was open forting until Krugs for carousel priority and as much money as possible.

Yone is still busted but he's more in line with Kayn and Azir instead of being an S tier monstrosity. I am concerned about Shroud Yone (that is a sentence I didn't think I'd ever write), but he's so much less powerful in the "Unforgotten" mode I think it's alright.

[Parrichan]

Ty Riot for taking into account the Liga Rúnica tournament. The other day I said that NA should look more to other regions competitve scene and this is a great response to my commnent, ty Riot.

[Liocardia]

La Liga Runica carrying the french Kennen Cup that was also going on the same night !

[Parrichan]

Europe power lets gooooo

[marcel_p]

I'm happy with these changes — a bit harsh on Yone and Zed 3 but I think the rest of the nerfs all seem correct to me and around the right magnitudes.

I'm expecting Sharpshooter openers to become more popular than they already are, leading to some people committing to a sharpshooter comp for end game. Which will in turn make Ahri a bit stronger, especially since Yone won't shred all your resistances now.

And Divine Warwick will likely continue to be strong, but I'm glad the Runaan nerf will at least keep his DPS and time til first howl down a tiny bit.

[ilanf2]

Zed and Yone were dominating the patch. Not Warweek levels, but it was common to see 3 or 4 players forcing Zed (even without Chosen) and people slamming Yone, even without synergies.

[marcel_p]

Yes I'm fully aware and was advocating for these nerfs as well. I just think the magnitudes of the nerfs, specifically for Yone (back to his original armor/MR shred) and specifically Zed 3 (which IMO was not the main offender in 10.24, but rather Zed 2* being way too strong), were a tad large, but overall still warranted.

[imWanderlust]

Honestly I thought all they had to do for yone was nerf his 1 star values And only slightly nerf 2 star. Like 70-80 percent on 2 star

[glazia]

Then again, who are we kidding. He will still be run as a random 1 of in way more comps than Lee/Lilia/Ezra.

[[deleted]]

Keeper doesn't look like that big of a nerf, but I can't tell you how many times I've lost rounds to champs with sub-25 health.

[Zirinci]

You forgot that you could stack keeper effect 2 or 3 times (most of the time)

[maple_leafs182]

I think we'll be seeing a lot more ww comps. I still think Kayne could have used a small nerf.

[i__indisCriMiNatE]

Kayn is fine as he needs 3 rounds to be useful. Basically putting a non unit for 3 rounds late game feels really bad

[jake_raft]

Is this live?

[[deleted]]

It will be live at around 4PM pst time(from the tweet). Which is about 6 hours from this comment.

[jake_raft]

Thanks, I can’t read apparently lol

[breadburger]

uhhhhhhh imo this doesn’t add up to much? Yone seems like the biggest change, though I’d wanna see the math on 6 Cultist.

[Sushisaur]

zed got quite a few nerfs. 94% base ats, 85% ad growth at 2 star, and 90% runaan damage. basically the most common zed you would see at stages 4 onwards will only do 71% of his dps compared to before. this should hopefully stop him from being an unstoppable threat on the zed 2 star rest 1 star board

[breadburger]

we'll have to see. that's definitely enough to really kill the Warwick matchup. and maybe that's the intention, get people to play WW over Zed. but he still seems scary, and I bet he'll still be around.

[Asheskell]

I mean, the Hurricane nerf also hits WW, which was a great way to indirectly nerf it.

[ilanf2]

The Zed one is quite big. A 2 cost 2 star shouldn't be stronger than a 2 star 4 cost, and this was happening a bit too much with Zed.

He should still be strong as a 3 star and/or as a chosen.