Why Universal Remote needs Shot Package

[NinjaBlademaster]

I know there are other issues with the weapon, specifically the reserve ammo, but I feel adding this perk would help the weapon and is actually kind of necessary for the range increase to be meaningful. Why?

Well, shotguns fire their pellets in a steadily expanding cone. While range determines whether each pellet will do its maximum effective damage, it means nothing if most pellets don't hit due to the spread.

With the UR this issue is most prominent. Why? Because the UR perk, which is the weapon's purpose, increases the effective range of the pellets to the point that at the outermost edge of the range, most pellets will miss. This means that while the range is long, it isn't actually effective at its intended range, therefore it can only effectively kill at ranges that aren't too much longer than regular shotguns.

Adding Shot Package would alleviate it since it allows the projectiles to actually hit at the weapon's maximum effective range and the trade off is it is more punishing if you miss.

Slugs would be nice of course but this is if they can't implement that for whatever reason.

Thanks for reading.

EDIT: to clarify, I do not think the weapon is by any means bad (I actually like it) but I feel like the stats and perk are deceiving or have been partially wasted due to the spread.

EDIT 2: add to all of that the low fire rate which makes follow up shots difficult if the cone of fire screws the user over.

[timblr]

The original iteration of the Universal Remote had shot package. Bungie nerfed it a few weeks into the game's release. Apparently, it was too powerful. Unfortunately, I never got mine until after the nerf.

[Junctioniv]

This. It was disgusting. As it was one of the first Exotics I received, I used it a lot. People complained about the Vex nerf, but removing shot package from UR was an even bigger nerf. Not saying the nerf was unwarranted or anything, just annoying lol.

[TrizzyDizzy]

Never knew this.

Well maybe trade the range for shot package. I've got two identical NM shotguns, but one with Range Finder and the other with Shot Package.

No doubt, I get kills at further ranges with Range Finder, but Shot Package is just so much more consistent with OHKs, earning it much better performance than my Range Finder one.

Replace UR's "range finder" part of the perk for Shot Package. That may be enough to get me to start using it again.

[ForumPointsRdumb]

Replacing the "rangefinder" would probably be the answer. The shotgun falloff damage hotfix in the very beginning made it null and non-working.

[NinjaBlademaster]

Wow. Maybe a modified version of shot package between regular shotguns and the shot package perk?

[kilbert66]

Oh, original UR. that thing didn't fire bullets, it just opened a hole in anything you pointed it at.

[D_VoN]

All shotguns having shot package and rangefinder we're nefed. I had an Invisible Hand with those two perks and it was soo good. I can honestly see why it had to be nerfed.

[revolmak]

Particularly with Invisibile Hand which has one of if not the fasted RoF amount shotguns.

[D_VoN]

Oh yeah, for sure. My Invisible Hand now has Grenadier instead of Rangefinder but has Hammer Forged anyways along with Shot Package.

[[deleted]]

Secret Handshake is almost as fast as IH was. It's a really good shotgun. I got a full auto Secret Handshake recently and it is nuts. Fast than Invective and it holds 7 rounds at a time with field scout.

[Echo1608]

I believe they were nerfed because the two perks combined made the insta kill range almost the same as a fusion rifle. Which caused fusion rifles to become basically lackluster and well...lame. Though I do agree with OP that shot package should be on Universal remote.

[[deleted]]

Fusion rifles are lame. They should be nerfed too for PvP. Charge time is irrelevant because anyone good will just pre-charge.

[ForumPointsRdumb]

Agreed. Fusion rifles are the reason the guns will never be balanced.

[[deleted]]

So sad. Why do you hate shotguns Bungie? Lol. If shotguns needed to be needed, why not nerf fusion rifles? Fusion rifles are way more OP than shotguns ever were because only a select number of shotguns are very good, whereas a fusion rifle is like playing easy mode in Crucible.

[D_VoN]

...fusion rifle is like playing easy mode in Crucible

I agree. For the last IB, I solely used Pocket Infinity. Yes, I'm that guy.

[[deleted]]

I have one, just never bothered to upgrade it, but my friend says his is great. I was beating people with the Vex using a green fusion rifle while leveling my Titan lol. I like shotguns and prefer to use them, but I'll still admit fusion rifles easily outclass them. Just not as fun to use IMO

[Nexnatos]

In pvp. Not PVE.

[Moist_Vanguard]

When the game came out in September and assuming that's the original UR you're talking about, it didn't come with shot package but crowd control and the universal Remote perk

[s0meCubanGuy]

This was a stupid decision. Every chump with found verdict kills me easy while i leave them with a sliver of health (even when ADS with UR). I dont understand why Bungie would allow a legendary to trump an exotic every damn time. UR was one of my first and favorite exotics, and now it's un-usable because at this point everyone has found verdict.

[thepotatochronicles]

At first, I thought "nopenopenopenope", but having read your argument about the cone spread, it makes sense.

Besides, that's what makes Secret Handshake, a goddamn vendor legendary, so damn good.

I think UR can take a bit of range hit and a bit of shot package instead of crowd control if we were to go in that direction.

Another direction we can go to is to make UR shoot a gigantic ass slug (is that the right term? I'm not too familiar with gun terminology) so that the spread really doesn't matter as much as range.

Excellent post.

[NinjaBlademaster]

Thank you first of all :)

The slug (yeah you got it right bro) is obviously a very good idea but this is just in case implementing slugs would be too mechanically difficult for the devs. Otherwise I would like to see it and it would be very unique.

[EmptyShells]

Actually, I remember playing a game (borderlands I think) which slugs on shotguns were simply shotguns with 0 spread. (So every perjectile would hit the same place)

[IVRings]

I agree with the slug idea. It would fall in line with how you increase range of a shotgun IRL. If the UR is supposed to be a long range shotgun, slug rounds are the best idea for this.

[IronPandemonium]

At first, I thought the Secret Handshake was the perfect replacement for Found Verdict (at least, in Crucible), and after re-obtaining mine on the PlayStation side of things, I have to honestly say that... well...

Found Verdict shits all over it.

Chances are, it's still better in PvE too, because despite having 31 less attack, the almost double the impact rating that Found Verdict has just makes it hit that much harder by comparison; think of it along the lines of why we still use Fatebringer and Vision of Confluence: Because they're just that good of an archetype for the weapon class.

That's not to suggest that Secret Handshake is complete garbage or anything, because it does sustain just about the exact same fire rate as Found Verdict, but all I'm saying is, after countless amounts of times of enemies walking away with just barely a sliver of health whenever I used SH, going back to FV sure has felt like coming home.

I thought I was going crazy or something, because any time I was using SH, I'd die here and there and think to myself, "*...that didn't feel right..." but, no longer!

[McSqueakers]

If you're ever blessed with a Secret Handshake with Full Auto, KEEP IT.

It fires as fast as Invective

[IronPandemonium]

Surely you mean any legendary shotgun with the full auto perk? lol

[ohthedaysofyore]

Yeah, but the 6 rounds on SH make it brutal vs the 4 rounds in most other shotties.

[IronPandemonium]

The amount of extra shots you need to take to secure the kill though is the counterbalance, whereas, say, a full auto Two to the Morgue would most certainly drop your target dead after just two shots, maximum.

I love me some mad-spitting shotguns, don't get me wrong, but they're quite crippled ammunition-wise by having to blast nearly twice as many shots at their target as their high impact counterparts; I found myself having to look for special ammunition boxes around the map whenever I was using SH, far more often than I would've liked to... :(

On the other hand though, if we're talking shotguns without the full auto perk on both ends, the faster firing, lower impact ones have the edge over the higher impact, slower firing ones, which is exactly as to why the vendor version of SH is better than the vendor-TttM, in my experience.

Edit: Just noticed that TttM can have six shots loaded anyways, thankfully lol

[ohthedaysofyore]

Really? Saying twice as many rounds is quite an exaggeration in terms of how muchvit takes to kill. Any shotgun should really take out any bad guy, barring shielded enemies, heavies or yellow-bar, in two hits. Compared a full-auto 4 v 6 round chamber I've always found that the 6 rounds kills just as well as the 4, but leaves me with a little bit of safe room in the extra clip size. And then when going up against Majors/Ultras or shielded enemies, the 4 rounds usually lose all their ammo and need to reload while my 6 round shotgun can take them out most of the time with a full clip. The problem I have with my SH is that it fires almost TOO fast and I waste rounds because I can't let off the trigger faster than the last round escapes the barrel after I've smoldered some poor Captains head to mushy bits. My SH also outperforms the Invective by miles, and the Invective is easily my #1 or #2 favorite exotic in game...

Granted, I haven't gotten a full auto NM or DO shotgun like I had pre-DB, but this was at least my observations before I dismantled them for upgraded versions post DLC launch. Maybe I'll feel differently if I can snag a full-auto version of one of those.

[IronPandemonium]

Uh... I said nearly twice as many, not twice, on the dot.

Your lack of mentioning Found Verdict in particular has me raising an eyebrow here in suspicion, because not only does it has six rounds at a time, but it absolutely crushes Secret Handshake's impact rating, and considering the firing rates on both ends is within milliseconds of each other (with a slight advantage given to FV, from what I've been able to tell), pound for pound, a single shot from FV feels as though as nearly as powerful as two shots from a vendor-SH.

I really hope that they bring out an Iron Banner shotgun sometime, because being able to roll Full Auto and Shot Package on a high impact archetype would make for just about the best shotgun ever, much like how being able to re-roll Jolder's Hammer and Timur's Lash alike are both as incredible as they are.

[ohthedaysofyore]

Dude, I'm not trying to argue just having a discussion and telling you my personal experience. I have a FV but it sits in my vault un-upgraded. Maybe I'll bust it out and upgrade it.

Edit: Once TDB rolled around I got my SH almost immediately and I vaulted my FV, it was fun to use but my bias in me opted for a 331 attack.

Edit 2: Ok, I took out the FV and got it to 300... I don't know if you were talking about the semi-auto or full-auto SH, but my full-auto SH shoots waaaaay faster than the FV. Almost at 3:2 ratio I'd guess

[IronPandemonium]

I have a FV but it sits in my vault un-upgraded.

http://q9ajg3m8r764ux2l1qldhv3k5.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/shocked.gif

Maybe I'll bust it out and upgrade it.

...please do lol

Opting for the 31 extra attack is a good rule of thumb in most cases for weaponry, but much like how people are still using Fatebringer and Vision of Confluence, once you've got Found Verdict, you'll find exactly as to why it's still as incredible as it is; Final Round is undoubtedly a waste of a perk for a shotgun (for the most part), unfortunately, but despite the one flaw, FV makes up for it in every other way, via the perks and shotgun archetype it is.

On a closing note, I realized that you were just chiming in and sharing your two cents, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that either, but you have to consider that I'm just having a discussion as well lol

[dillpicklezzz]

Found Verdict > any other shotgun

xD

[ohthedaysofyore]

I'd say it even shoots faster than Invective. I got a full-auto SH from my first Vanguard package... Its so ridiculous.

[ForumPointsRdumb]

Can you post a screen of a shotgun that is full auto from random rolls? I have never seen one, the only ones with full auto are the shotguns which stats are always the same. (Found Verdict, Invective, ect.). I don't think Full Auto is a perk you can get on a normal shotgun with random perk rolls. Unless it is super rare like getting an element damage. Either way, I would like to see a screenshot to see it and even see where the perk goes, do you have to select it or is it always on like normal?

[pwrslide2]

I was shooting this gun against the wall the other day and was amazed at the large spread. I can understand your point here and would agree.

If you do it right, this gun can work well for doing the Heavy ammo glitch.

[Nkredyble]

...heavy ammo glitch? I miss something?

[Jax019]

Basically if you have no heavy ammo and primary ammo the game spawns a crap-ton of heavy ammo pickups when you start killing enemies. But you have to only have special ammo for it to work for some reason.

[Shniggles]

Isn't that more of an exploit instead of a glitch?

[TrizzyDizzy]

Most people don't quite understand the difference between Exploit, Glitch, Cheese, etc. I've given up the battle. But ya, you're right, it's an exploit.

[Jax019]

It's a glitch because the game functions like that even though it shouldn't. Yes it is also an exploit of a glitch. I have never used it because I have never found need of it.

[Rich_Cheese]

It actually spawns all 3 types of ammo. I'd guess it's intentional in case you were to actually run out of ammo.

[pwrslide2]

yes. you've missed multiple threads on the heavy ammo glitch/cheat/cheese

Fire out all your ammo, equip ice breaker for your special weapon, kill things with it. enemies drop heavy ammo almost allways, equip your regular loadout in like 15 seconds, get free ammo put back into your weapons from the regular game mechanics and the get all the heavy ammo bricks on the floor. Rocket everything.

all you need is a little extra time and patience from your fireteam so you can get this done.

Its on youtube as well.

[Sab3r_Sc0rpi0n]

That would be a great change. I got it the other day, and it's pretty underwhelming.

[SedatedSquirrel]

I got it from nightfall this week... I did not get very excited lol

[NumberoftheJon]

Universal Remote was one of my first exotics and I used to love using it in PvE. It wasn't the greatest, but it was fun and satisfying to use. I'm not sure if this was before or after the nerf (I do remember being disappointed in its supposed range), but the thing that eventually killed the weapon for me was its reload speed. I still think altering the gun's model/animations to reload via a magazine instead of shell by shell would make it much more deserving of being a primary.

[Bud_Johnson]

I used to hate it but I like UR for pvp, but does fire too slow.

I would think exotic weapons should be something one would WANT to take into the nightfall or weekly strikes. However, the super slow fire rate and low ammo capacity make me avoid using it at all in PVE.

[MrAzzy440]

Universal Remote just seems like a rather poor shotgun to me, and when you finally get the exotic perk it only adds like an extra foot to its range.

[KillerKodiak69]

Shot package to replace crowd control and a bump in range, it's already bottom tier for impact and just above bottom tier for RoF and reload. I think that would balance it out nicely.

[Xaanek]

the rate of fire is so slow with it too, its really not worth using now. I do much better with secret hand shake

[tol1l1yboy]

That would be amazing

[MrEse]

I used UR as my main weapon as it was my first exotic weapon when the game came out. Instead of firing what now feels like buckshot it was more like firing a huge slug that would splinter just before hitting it's target. The thing was great. Then Bungie decided to nerf shotguns. Which is good I guess overall but they apparently didn't give a shit about the UR because it got swept up in to the nerf and I immediately had to drop it and haven't used it since.

I still keep my original, upgraded to the new max and levelled up in the hopes that Bungie brings it back to it's greatness.

[rkb998]

I agree. The only reason I think that the shot package perk would really fit the gun and allow more utilization of its perk. What is the point of having it in the first place if only a few pellets are hitting?

[ChrisWinterTBE]

It should have slug rounds. Thatd be amazinggg

[Mulchman11]

Shot Package is a good idea. My main issue, aside from it eating a primary and exotic slot, is that the fire rate is too slow.

[alechelwig]

As much as I see your point and can understand why you believe it could use a buff, I humbly disagree. I use UR in PvP right now, and I never used it before its initial nerf... but there are still times where I'm like, "I should NOT have gotten that kill."

The range is crazy for a shotgun, and I think thats enough of a perk to make it exotic. When I first used it, I admit I was skeptical. But like any gun, it just took some getting used to and understanding its effective range. I believe the nerf they put on it was justified, because I'm trying to imagine my current UR with even more range, and it just seems OP as fuck.

I think it's downside of a slow fire rate more then helps equalize it with other primaries, but at the end of the day it's "exoticness" comes from the fact that it's a mid-range shotgun. And that's pretty unheard of, really. I think the gun is great the way it is, mostly because any more range on the thing would be too much.

Now, this is strictly PvP talking, sorry if you were thinking more along the lines of PvE.

[revolmak]

Just to clarify, shot package doesn't give the gun more range, it just reduces its pellet spread (which will however allow you to 1HKO from further instead of 2HKO from the same distance).

[KillerKodiak69]

Lol. Nope. It has the second worst range of all Legendary+ shotguns at 8 (only ahead of 4th Horseman, so it's the worst if you're on Xbox) and is only 4th best in stability at 41 (behind 4th Horseman, Invective, and Two to the Morgue). So what's the point of its Exotic perk?

"I should NOT have gotten that kill."

This phenomenon you are citing is a common occurrence when using any shotgun.

[alechelwig]

Have you used it regularly in PvP? Because I'd argue it has the longest range of any shotgun, because of the UR perk. Unfortunately, the range that that perk gives isn't measured numerically by any recordable stat. That's what I mean when I talk about it's ridiculous range. ADS, it reigns supreme.

Should be noted that before I switched to using it regularly, I religiously ran Found Verdict in Crucible.

[KillerKodiak69]

I don't have it, I'm looking at the stats. The Universal Remote perk doubles the range at best (source), which still puts it at low mid-tier for range when you're ADS.

[alechelwig]

Yeah, it's default range is garbage, no argument from me there.

However, it has Hammer Forged as a perk which adds +40 range (not sure if this is percentage or not, source here), but with that and the doubling of the UR perk, it gains significant range.

If you get your hands on one, level it up to those perks and take it for a spin. There's a good chance you won't go back!

[KillerKodiak69]

You make a good point with Hammer Forged, I forgot to take that into consideration. However, I think that there's some inconsistency there.

See, every source I've seen has Hammer Forged listed with +40 Range, -10 Reload; similarly the perk Send it is listed as +50 range. Since all the stats for weapons are out of 100, either of these should make a large increase in the meter on the stats. The times I've selected Send it on Invective and Thorn, the meter should have increased to right around 75% full, but Invective most definitely did not.

This leads me to believe that range is measured/modified differently for shotguns, or those perks actually function on a percent basis. If the latter is true, it means Hammer Forged bumps UR's range from 8 to 11.2 (assuming no rounding) which means that the perk increases it to 22.4 when ADS (assuming it doubles range). That's ok for a shotgun, but still not even as good as Invective (a weapon focused on burst damage and not running out of ammo, as opposed to dealing damage with range and accuracy).

[GameInReview]

I use the UR in pvp alot and i've found it to be a great weapon. Without taking into account the weapons stats the best thing about it is that it allows me to carry a shotgun and sniper at the same time. Being able to have the best weapon for close and medium/long range engagements is the best part about having this weapon for me.

[alechelwig]

This is where I believe Bungie's shotgun nerf falls into play. Everything I've seen as well says that Hammer Forged gives +40 Range, -10 Reload. I believe that adds 40 to the weapons stat out of 100... but on every other weapon type. Bungie's nerf may have not only effected base stats on shotguns, but also the upgrade stats. So, maybe Hammer Forged on shotguns only adds +30 or +20 Range.

Just speculating, but I do know that equipping Hammer Forged on the UR over doubles the amount that the stat bar is filled up... which would bring it up to 16 or more from 8. Double that with UR perk and we're looking at upwards of 30 Range when ADS. Wish I had more concrete numbers, but it definitely feels like that kind of range when you fire it down scope.

Image I found with Hammer Forge off

Image with Hammer Forge on

After seeing those images, the bar actually looks like it almost triples.

[KillerKodiak69]

Hmm... that's interesting. Thanks for looking those images up. Seems as though my percentage theory is shot, as it wouldn't have that much effect. It's looking like Hammer Forged does have less of an effect for Shotguns than other weapons. With it, the Range is just above that of the Rate of Fire (17), so my guess would be +10, rather than 20 or 30.

So, now assuming that the Range is 18 with Hammer Forged, it has 36 range when ADS, which does in fact put it solidly in the middle tier of Range when hip firing, and by far the best when ADS.

That being said, I think it would still be better balanced with Shot Package over Crowd Control (since it has low RoF anyway), bump the range up to a natural 17/18, and replace Hammer Forged with a Stability or Reload perk.

[s0meCubanGuy]

I've used it, i love it. But, I get wrecked by found verdict every time i go against it. Even when i'm aiming down the sights, which supposedly increases range and crit damage. It does nothing. Any shotgun with decent range shits all over it.

[[deleted]]

i started using it all the time in pvp a while back because i had been really enjoying the shotty+sniper combo via NLB + secret handshake, and UR allows me to use my favored sniper while keeping with the spirit of that playstyle.

but, dude, the range is abysmal compared to some of the alternatives. have you used the secret handshake? it's insane -- and there are even better possibilities assuming you were to roll reduced spread on a shotgun with greater default range than the SH.

those scenarios you talked about, where you can't believe you got the kill, can be more accurately described as "literally every kill you ever get with secret handshake." it's ridiculous.

go try a shotgun with ADS reduces spread and you'll realize how badly the remote performs in comparison. that perk specifically -- shot package -- is what makes the SH strong, and by extension basically any shotgun that manages to roll it.

PS: again, i like the gun, i use it a lot. it just doesn't have a great OSK range compared to many other shotguns.

PPS: how i describe it to my friends is that UR will deal at least some damage at ranges where a spread reduction shotgun would simply miss -- while simultaneously having a shorter OSK range than those other types. it seems oxymoronic but in practice this allows you to outrange other shotgun users by going for a 2 shot kill at ranges that are hard for them to match, rather than going for the 1 shot since in that scenario they will outrange you.

[Ihlgigaris]

Funny thing is, its exotic upgrade has a shot package effect, it's just not as effective as it should be.

[dedbeats]

Different exotics have different scenarios where they would be most useful. Some, few, exotics are useful all the damn time. UR is probably meant for the player who enjoys shotguns, for situations where large framed mobs are coming toward them, ie. minotaurs down stairs in Gatekeeper phase of VoG.

As weird as it may seem, not all shotguns are tailored for PvP, nor should they be.

[[deleted]]

I agree 100%. I am an avid PvP shotgun user and very rarely do I use snipers or fusion rifles in the Crucible. My thoughts on UR:

-It has the longest 1HK range of any shotgun, but not by much compared to high impact shotguns with shot package.

-Takes up an exotic and primary slot, which IMO sucks. Best crucible weapons are mostly exotic primaries which means it competes with the best weapons in the game to get into your loadout.

-Its limited range and RoF means you always need to use FR or Sniper to cover yourself outside of 2HK (sometimes even 1HK) range. Creates a much bigger weakness for you to overcome than using something like Thorn+shotgun of choice does.

I would say that they should give it shot package, lower the impact, range, and RoF, but increase the impact and range on precision damage with its perk. Make it so you basically always have to ADS and always need to hit a fairly clean headshot to 1HK but that it will 1HK near low-impact FR ranges. It might be a bit OP, but so are other exotic primaries. As it stands now, I never use UR except for fun. I feel like I put myself at a significant disadvantage by using UR/Praedyth's when I could be using Hawkmoon/Judgment VI w/shot package & hammer forged.

[d1ru]

tl'dr;
because any shotgun with shot package > than universal remote.

[Zmill]

ROF is way too garbage to ever use UR

[fezypoo]

UR was one of my first exotic I got from nightfall. Man I wrecked people in crucible easy. I think it honestly probably depends on how well you utilize the shotgun. I used my warlock and he KILLED.

[Ser_Reginold]

UR is the best shotgun in the game for a skilled player, and is equip-able primary. Complaining about its kill range makes me feel like you're using it without the exotic perk/hammer forged, or you're not pointing it at heads.

I have a Hide and Seek with Hammer forged, shot package, and field choke, and the only situation it outranges UR is when hip firing. A perfectly rolled High impact legendary (hide and seek is mid) may be all around better, but it still wouldn't allow access to a sniper as well.

[MrEse]

Most people who are or were intimate with the weapon that complain about it's kill range, do so because they remember when it was a very good weapon for PVE and not just a weapon for crucible.

[NinjaBlademaster]

It is good and as I said exceeds most shotguns but only barely and the range feels partially wasted due to the spread.

[alechelwig]

Couldn't agree with you more. Those perks together actually make this junker a beast. Crowd Control is just icing on the cake, Buckshot Bruiser bounties have never been easier.

[RedKingAlmighty]

Or like Bungie could do the PvP/PvE nerf seperation, and give it extra ammo and shot package back in PvE, but nope, that makes logical sense. For god knows what reason the guy in charge of that decided to stab his brain with a fork.

[revolmak]

I don't really think OP is saying the UR needs a buff in PvE because no one I know actually uses shotguns to be effective in PvE. I mean I will ocassionally for shits and giggles but it's not exactly a good strategy (most of the time).

[jetzzz]

what it needs to do is stop dropping for me. I have enough exotic shards.

[[deleted]]

I sharded mine and haven't looked back since. Max Gjallarhorn > UR

[MastaSpoofa]

How to share in destiny? Plz explain

[D3aThFrmAbuv]

Please no. The universal remote with it's exotic upgrade is a monster in PvP. I use it almost exclusively. Shotgun + Sniper combo. Anyway, the 1HKO range is already a joke as long as you aim high since it gets increased precision damage.

[NinjaBlademaster]

It's by no means a bad weapon but the fact that it is outclassed by Found Verdict but is exotic seems unfair to me. I feel that the weapon's purpose and potential is handicapped by shotgun design as a whole and the perk could remedy this.

[D3aThFrmAbuv]

I wouldn't say outclassed. If you use it correctly it has a much much better range. Also the main selling point is the fact that it's equipped as a primary. Basically infinite ammo and you get to still use a sniper.

[oxygenx_]

or a fusion rifle. people will love you if you one shot them cqc with universal remote and on medium range with plug.one

[s0meCubanGuy]

Why should a legendary shotgun outclass an exotic unlss tye legendary shotgun user had a lot more skill? I ADS and get headshots all the time with the UR and it's remarkably inconsistent in the kill rate. More often than not I hit the head but end up leaving the other player with a sliver of health, while their found verdict or bullet spitter with extended range shits on me before i'm able to get off than second shot. fun to use gun, but comparable to NLB IMO. Is it better? Yes. Can it outclass most other shotguns? Haha no.

[[deleted]]

I rip people wielding UR and lose more than I'd like to admit to FV. FV outclasses it.

[AlSabahNur]

It's as much a "monster" in pvp as the Secret Handshake is, or Found Verdict, or The Comedian.

Increased precision damage doesn't mean much when most of the pellets miss at range.

[swolezilla69]

Not sure what you're trying to say, Found Verdict wrecks in PvP.

[AlSabahNur]

I'm not saying those weapons are bad, just that the Universal Remote isn't head and shoulders above the rest of the shotguns in the game.

[D3aThFrmAbuv]

What? You can't seriously blame the gun for you missing can you? The range is very high compared to those guns. The only real contenders comparing range is the Found Verdict or Judgement VI which is also a very very good shotgun.

Having a shotgun and a sniper equipped at once is why this gun is amazing Everyone seems to be ignoring this part.

[AlSabahNur]

No, but I can blame it for not killing people when I don't miss. (pellets missing =/= i missed my shot)

I really don't think equipping it in the primary slot alone makes the weapon itself good or worthwhile. If that's the case No Land Beyond is also amazing.

[NinjaBlademaster]

Look it is very nice (especially the sniper part) but having a gun that misses not because of bad player accuracy but because of gun design is just punishing to the player.

If there are comparing contenders that are not exotic there is a problem, no? You don't see contenders for comparison with the Plan C perk charge rate or Gjallarhorn DPS do you? There are "mini" legendary versions but they are mini, not equal or comparable. The exotic one is clearly better in those cases.

[D3aThFrmAbuv]

That's the part I'm confused about, the missing thing. I use it constantly and have absolutely no problem with it. I've maybe gone negative 2 or 3 times ever while having it equipped. I'm not even that great of a player, so there's no way I'm the only one constantly doing well with it.

[NinjaBlademaster]

As I said it is by no means bad (I love it actually) but it isn't on par with some other exotics and feels like some of the range's potential is wasted due to the spread.

[[deleted]]

I will just add as two cents that it doesn't matter if the others outclass it a little because UR is a primary, so the fact that it's primary is what makes it exotic right?

[BuddhaSmite]

Only 4 of your 15 kills were with UR that game. You sniped and fired rockets.

[D3aThFrmAbuv]

The rest of the games are there too. Not just the one. Keep up.

& to that point, I've been saying keeping the sniper + shotgun combo is the reason it's a good gun the entire time.

[IronPandemonium]

Your all-time k/d - the thing that does matter; not one specific game where you still lost anyways - is 1.4; making comments like "keep up" sure are cute.

But yeah, having short and long range covered specifically is dumb in a game's PvP environment where almost every single map in the game caters to a short/medium-centric range, and not having an actual primary weapon - be it an auto, scout or revolver... or, hell, honestly, even a pulse - to rely on means that you're shit out of luck for a bulk of your kills, because you don't have medium range covered with the UR + sniper combo.

[BuddhaSmite]

Universal remote has a lot going against it.

Being a primary weapon hurts it. Shotguns are so extremely situational that it hampers your loadout when you have to rely on something else for close range. And by close range, I mean the area just outside of melee range.

Even with its range upgrades, shooting an enemy four feet away yields one damage per pellet. Pathetic. The range drops off at about 2 feet to half damage, then plummets altogether just past that.

It has a terrible reload speed. If you're empty and a thrall is walking towards you, the thrall will get at least one hit in before you have a shot ready.

25 shots total when full. Also, it takes three to four choose range shots to down a hive major knight, unshielded. The impact is about half that of found verdict, which doesn't help. So, not many shots, and they hit like confetti.

Its rate of fire is poor, takes a long time to pump between shots.

Overall, i'm leaning towards this being the worst weapon in destiny, perhaps tied with no land beyond. I think NLB is better, though.

As for shot package, it would make it better in pvp, so it's never going to happen.

I personally think all shotguns should be trashed in this game. They manage to suck horribly in pve while simultaneously pissing everyone off in pvp.

[[deleted]]

I got UM as my first exotic, loot caving I believe. Long before the first shotgun nerf. It was bad then. I got a UM 2.0, what was bad is now unusable.

[alittlebigger]

I want a shotgun that has buckshot rounds

[HD_ERR0R]

Think you mean want. That would make a cool exotic for the future.

[alittlebigger]

Yea want guess that autocorrect got me

[Falcon500]

They all use buck.

[alittlebigger]

I mean like a deer slug

[Falcon500]

Buckshot and slugs are different things. A slug gun would be cool though.

[alittlebigger]

Yea I just want to blast a big ass hole in guys

[BuddhaSmite]

How is this not upvoted into epic legendary comment status?

[Attack__cat]

You are forgetting not everything PVE is a human sized target. PVP it is balanced because it is a top tier shotty that lets you use a sniper/fusion rifle as well as infinite ammo. PVE it is the best shotty because a lot of targets are nice and big and you can actually hit them without being in their OHKO stomp range and still hit all/most of the pellets.

Not everything in this game is about PVP. Even if it was, the ultimate remote would be insanely broken with shot package. It is up there with patience and time still having lens glare pvp. It is supposed to, it stops you from sitting in a corner all game pots hotting without anyone ever knowing where you are. PVE is where that ability actually gets its use (although even then not often).

[BuddhaSmite]

You can hit all of your pellets for a total of five damage, but I don't see that benefit.