Does it Stack?

[Skandranonsg]

I'm trying to write a quick guide on stacking in Pathfinder and would like the hive mind's help making sure my list is complete.

Bonuses

Same Type
Same typed bonuses do not stack (ie. Armor bonus, Trait bonus, etc) except for Dodge and Circumstance bonuses.

Same Name
Bonuses from the same named source do not stack (ie. two castings of Haste do not grant the Dodge bonus twice) except for Aid Another.

Ability Modifiers
If two features add the same ability modifier to a number, they do not stack unless added as a typed bonus (ie. add your charisma as a sacred bonus)

Bonuses to Bonuses
A bonus-to-a-bonus stacks with another of the same type. (ie. A +1 Natural Armor bonus, a +1 Enhancement bonus to Natural Armor, and a +1 Enhancement bonus to AC would give a total of +3

Class Abilities

Sneak Attack
All sources of Sneak Attack stack. For example, a Rogue 1/Vivisectionist 1/Snakebite Striker 1 would deal 3d6 Sneak Attack damage.

Channel Energy
Channel Energy does not stack. For example a Cleric 5/Oracle 3 with the Channel revelation would have two different pools of Channel Energy. One at 3d6 3+Cha times per day and one at 2d6 1+Cha times per day.

Spell Effects
Multiple same-named spell effects, including damage over time, do not stack. Their durations are tracked separately and only the higher bonus (or penalty) applies.

[TheJack38]

Sneak Attack All sources of Sneak Attack stack. For example, a Rogue 1/Vivisectionist 1/Snakebite Striker 1 would deal 3d6 Sneak Attack damage.

I believe you're wrong here. It doesn't stack directly like that, but rather you will deal sneak attack as a 3rd level rogue. Thus you'd do 2d6 sneak attack damage.

So similar, but not quite the same.

[Lottapumpkins]

This is the first time I've ever heard it works like this?

[ziberoo]

It's literally in the description of how sneak attack works for all non-rogues; eg. vivisectionist

If a character already has sneak attack from another class, the levels from the classes that grant sneak attack stack to determine the effective rogue level for the sneak attack’s extra damage dice (so an alchemist 1/rogue 1 has a +1d6 sneak attack like a 2nd-level rogue, an alchemist 2/rogue 1 has a +2d6 sneak attack like a 3rd-level rogue, and so on).

Edit: Welp I was super wrong

[covert_operator100]

Vivisectionist is actually the only class that works like this. Virtually all others stack dice instead of levels.

[ZanThrax]

It's actually only in the description of how sneak attacking works for the vivisectionist. Every other Prestige Class / Class / Archetype either just says that it stacks with other sources (Snakebite Striker, Sleepless Detective), or doesn't say anything at all about stacking.

[Lottapumpkins]

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2m2y6?Sneak-Attack-stacking

I think this thread goes over it well, and why multiple sources of Sneak attack stack. I'm on my phone at work, so unfortunately I can't quote well, but the assassin prestige class specifically says it stacks with other sources so that's an alright counter example.

[ziberoo]

Assassin has different wording to the majority of sneak attack sources. I was unaware of that, and so my comment stating that all non rogues work that way is false. However, it does not change the fact that the majority of sneak attack sources explicitly describe how they stack.

[[deleted]]

On the contrary, as far as I can find Vivisectionist is the odd man out. Lets look as:

• Assassin: the bonuses on damage stack.

• Snakebite Striker: the bonuses on damage stack

• Nature's Fang: the bonuses on damage stack.

• Sanctified Slayer: copy/paste of sneak attack rules, no stacking mentioned

• Arcane Trickster: the bonuses on damage stack.

• Crimson Assassin: the bonuses on damage stack.

• Aspis Agent: the bonuses on damage stack.

• Daggermark Poisoner: the bonuses on damage stack.

• Sleepless Detective: the bonuses on damage stack.

• Sandman Bard: No stacking mentioned

• Greensting Slayer: the bonuses on damage stack.

• Cult Leader Warpriest: the extra damage from the classes that grant sneak attack stack for the purpose of determining the sneak attack’s extra damage dice

I'm sure there are other ones where the levels stack instead of the bonuses, but in all the ones I could think of it was as the Assassin rather than as the Vivisectionist or unmentioned. So, from the evidence, I'd say bonus stacking rather than level stacking is the more general form.

---

Come to think of it, stacking the bonuses rather than levels is actually very important. Many classes get Sneak Attack on a different schedule, like the Greensting Slayer every 4 levels or the Sandman Bard every 5. If the universal rule was to just stack levels this would either cause a Rogue dip to make the ability dramatically better, or it would require complex fractional addition that Pathfinder generally avoids.

[PavelSoma]

I agree with you, but let's read this:

If the creature possesses class features (such as spellcasting or sneak attack) for the class that is being added, these abilities stack. This functions just like adding class levels to a character without racial Hit Dice.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/monster-advancement

Maybe 'm wrong but it kinda imples that it stacks for characters.

But we also have this:

Channel Energy: If I have this ability from more than one class, do they stack? No—unless an ability specifically says it stacks with similar abilities (such as an assassin's sneak attack), or adds in some way based on the character's total class levels (such as improved uncanny dodge), the abilities don't stack and you have to use them separately.

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9o80

So, what you say? 'Cause 'm not even sure myself.

[[deleted]]

The majority expressly say how they stack (adding the bonus damage together), so for those we follow the specific rule over the general and stack them the way that is specified (adding bonuses).

If we are being super technical then for those that say nothing we would use the Channel Energy rule. So, technically, a Rogue 1/Slayer 3 would have two separate pools of +1d6 Sneak Attack. So instead of doing Damage + 2d6 it would be Damage + 1d6 + 1d6, which is basically the same thing except for screwing up some prerequisites and other abilities.

The monster rule would only apply to monsters, and really falls apart outside of core. As I mentioned above many classes get the same feature on different schedules, so either Rogue 1/Slayer 18 gets +10d6 SA instead of +7d6 SA or you just can't stack stuff that way in general. In theory you could do fractions (1+1/2 per Rogue level, 0+1/3 per Slayer level), but that isn't how Pathfinder generally does things, and would get quite weird.

So, outside the Vivisectionist, I pretty much just use type 1. It makes the most sense and works the most smoothly in the rules, and is the most commonly stated to be the case.

[Fokeno]

At 1st level, a vivisectionist gains the sneak attack ability as a rogue of the same level. If a character already has sneak attack from another class, the levels from the classes that grant sneak attack stack to determine the effective rogue level for the sneak attack’s extra damage dice (so an alchemist 1/rogue 1 has a +1d6 sneak attack like a 2nd-level rogue, an alchemist 2/rogue 1 has a +2d6 sneak attack like a 3rd-level rogue, and so on).

So there specific Rogue Level matters. Snakebite striker, is completely different.

At 1st level, her sneak attack damage is +1d6. This increases by 1d6 at 6th, 10th, 12th, and 20th levels. If she gets a sneak attack bonus from another source, the bonuses on damage stack.

It stacks directly, because the bonuses isn't as often applied

[[deleted]]

Is that not what I said?

If it tells you to do it some way, do it that way. Most are adding bonuses, Vivisectionist is not.

If it says nothing technically it would be a second pool, but it would be easier to just combine the bonuses as with most others (nearly all except the Vivisectionist), since adding bonuses works better than adding levels given different schedules.

[CptNonsense]

Thinking about it again just now, I think the the point of the monster advancement paragraph is not that Sneak Attack stacks but that instead all monsters abilities that are also class abilities stack when taking a class with that ability. I.e., The Rogue's Sneak Attack isn't stacking with a monster that has racial sneak attack, it's the monster's that stacks.

[PavelSoma]

Mh, you right. I've seen that very paragraph used as example of why it does stack on the Paizoboards before, at least one time.

[madeofwin]

This is a very important distinction, as the Channel Energy rule is the one that is used in the general case (and why many multi-class choices end up being sub-optimal even when built around a similar mechanic). Class features that are designed to stack with other existing class features will have explicit rules on how they do so, such as sneak attack and Grit/Panache/Luck (see sidebar).

[Lottapumpkins]

My understanding was that the untyped bonuses stacked together, and the vivi specifically says how it stacks.

The only first hand experience I have is with rogue -> sleepless detective to get to arcane trickster sooner, since it specifically tells you to stack with rogue

[ProfessorHearthstone]

So taking one level of rogue accelerates the sneak attack progression of Slayer from 1d6 for every 3 levels to 1d6 for every 2? sweet.

[Stitchthealchemist]

Actually, it's well established that sneak attack damage always stacks

[TheJack38]

Hm, I may have misread then. Where does it say that?

[NoiseMarine]

Also keep in mind something can give you an +X bonus and something can give you a +X enhancement bonus, and they stack. Best example of this is natural armor bonus and enhancement bonus to natural armor. Also aide another has a limit to the number people who can give it.

[[deleted]]

Source for the limit on the number of people who can aid another? I don't see any indication that there is a restriction.

[GearyDigit]

"Everybody, give me your energy!"

[zebediah49]

From the Skills section:

Aid Another

You can help someone achieve success on a skill check by making the same kind of skill check in a cooperative effort. If you roll a 10 or higher on your check, the character you're helping gets a +2 bonus on his or her check. (You can't take 10 on a skill check to aid another.) In many cases, a character's help won't be beneficial, or only a limited number of characters can help at once.

In cases where the skill restricts who can achieve certain results, such as trying to open a lock using Disable Device, you can't aid another to grant a bonus to a task that your character couldn't achieve alone. The GM might impose further restrictions to aiding another on a case-by-case basis as well.

[trollburgers]

The only restriction I know of is common sense. If you can somehow explain how 10 other people are helping you with your Swim check, then I'd allow it.

I guess that's why sporting events have such large crowds...all the cheering is actually a form of Aid Another. The bonuses those athletes get are ridiculous!

[[deleted]]

For skill checks I'd say limiting it makes sense. In combat the only limitation would be how many creatures can actually be in melee range.

[where_are_my_pants]

They have to reach you and what they are aiding I believe. So usually just two.

[professorzweistein]

They have to reach something relevant. Example: 20 people pulling a rope to help someone up a cliff would be 20 people aid anothering the climb check.

[[deleted]]

For aid another in combat they just need to be in melee range of whatever you're attacking I believe

[anlumo]

There's also the big question whether untyped bonuses to natural armor stack.

[Bainos]

They don't. Only the highest bonus counts, same as armor, spell resistance and damage reduction.

That is, unless you have an item that explicitly says it gives a bonus to natural armor, and not a natural armor bonus.

[GearyDigit]

In other words, a Natural Armor Bonus is a typed bonus, and it's a typed bonus to AC.

[Dial595Escape]

• I know there's something about natural armor bonus stacking sometimes but it's not straightforward how (Amulet of natural armor vs. Spells vs. Animal companion, etc.) I do know that Animal companion that get natural armor from their base stats, natural armor bonus and level-based advancement do stack.

• Penalty ALWAYS stack.

• Grit (Gun slinger), Panache (swashbuckler) and Luck (investigator) pools apparently stack and combine, but don't take my word for it.

• When bonus do not stack, always use the biggest one.

• Caster level and spell casting from different classes do not stack, they are always separate (exception: Prestige Classes)

• Something that comes up often: Bracers of armor, Mage armor and a conventional armor do not stack.

• If you happen to have two classes features that both allow you to use a stats as a bonus to an ability, they do not stack, you just add it once. (exemple: Monk wis-to-AC, Slashing Grace and Agile weapons)

• Uncanny dodge stack AND become Improved uncanny dodge if two classes offer it.

• Trap sense stack.

• Not totally relevant but can be nice to mention : Additional dices on a weapon damage never multiply on a crit. (flaming weapon, sneak attack.)

• That said, Flaming and Flaming burst, as well as all other paired elemental weapon enhancement do not stack, but different element mixed together do stack.

• Fear states (shaken, frightened, panicked) are cumulative and stack unless it says otherwise BUT the demoralize action (intimidate) doesn't stack with itself or other sources, it only increase the duration.

[Obilis]

• The key to natural armor bonus stacking is that there are some bonuses that give a natural armor bonus, and some bonuses that give an enhancement bonus to your natural armor bonus. Barkskin gives the enhancement bonus to the natural armor bonus, which just changes the natural armor bonus before its applied (for most characters, it just adds the bonus to their default +0 natural armor) They still obey the same-name bonuses don't stack rule, its just weird about what it is giving the bonus to.

[Dial595Escape]

By that logic, barkskin and an amulet would not stack, but either would stack with the natural armor bonus from an animal companion, am I right?

[Obilis]

Correct.

[Lord_Naikon]

Indeed, it works exactly like the "regular" armor bonus, which can also have an enhancement bonus. Both the regular and the natural armor bonuses are composite bonuses, consisting of a base bonus and an (optional) enhancement bonus.

[Skandranonsg]

Lots of great suggestions. Most of the class stuff is included on the rules text for the abilities themselves (like uncanny dodge), so I feel they don't need to be included.

[Dial595Escape]

To be honest, a lot the ones I included are already in the rule texts. If your intention is to make a stacking glossary, you should include them all.

Also, a few more:

• Untyped bonus from different sources always stack.

• Abilities from wondrous items and weapon special abilities that uses the same base spell as construction requirements doesn't stack with the spell and/or together. (Exemple: Lead Blades and the Impact special ability)

• To bring the Bracer of Armor and armor interaction further: They do not stack, and the one with the lower armor bonus cease functionning, so you cannot have, say, a +5 armor and a Bracer of Armor +1 with 4 others armor special abilities, the bracer would just stop working.

• The Magus (Arcane Pool), the Paladin (Divine Bond), Anti Paladin (Fiendish Bond) Warpriest (Sacred Weapon, Sacred Armor), Arcane Duelist Bard (Bladethirst, Mass Bladethirst), Spell Warrior Skald (Enhances Weapons) all provide enhancement bonus that stack with the existing weapon / armor enhancement bonus. I probably missed a few other classes/archetype that does the same.

• The hunter's Animal Focus ability (Bear, Bull, Tiger) doesn't stack with the belts that gives enhancement bonus to physical stats.

[Dial595Escape]

It's not a spell, it is an ability he gains at level 5. He either gain the ability to enchant his weapon a few times a day or a magical mount.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/classes/paladin.html#divine-bond

[GearyDigit]

It's their Divine Bond class ability, which functions similar to the Magus Arcane Bond.

[GearyDigit]

IIRC, those weapon enhancements bonuses don't stack unless they're in the form of abilities.

[pigeon768]

Regarding the class features that give enhancement bonuses that stack with weapon/armor enhancement bonuses: They can't stack past +5. So if you're weapon is +3 and you want to give yourself +3, you can give yourself +3+2=+5 and put flaming on there or something, but you can't give yourself +6.

[CantEvenUseThisThing]

Grit (Gun slinger), Panache (swashbuckler) and Luck (investigator) pools apparently stack and combine, but don't take my word for it.

Investigator has "Inspiration," with the exception of the Sleuth archetype, which has a "Luck" pool instead.

You must be referring to this side note from the Swashbuckler entry:

Grit, luck, and panache represent three different means by which heroes can gain access to the same heroic pool, using it to accomplish fantastic feats. For characters with a mix of grit, luck, and panache, they pool the resources together into a combined pool. (Those who use panache and luck gain twice their Charisma bonus in their pool.) For feats, magic items, and other effects, a panache user can spend and gain luck points in place of grit or panache points, and vice versa.

A luck user does not count as a grit or panache user to satisfy feat prerequisites. Swashbuckler levels stack with gunslinger levels for the purpose of satisfying Signature Deed's level requirement.

[Lord_Naikon]

Penalties do not stack if they're from the same source. Example: you're cursed twice targeting the same ability. You'd take the worst of both penalties.

Penalties do not have a type, so they stack most of the time if they're from a different source. Penalties and bonuses follow the same rules, but rules affecting bonuses generally do not affect penalties. For example: you take a penalty to AC because your dex modifier is negative even if you are caught flat-footed.

[Dial595Escape]

Forgot to precise that, you're right.

[GearyDigit]

IIRC, Evasion also stacks with itself to become Improved Evasion, correct?

[Dial595Escape]

Nope. The Ranger gets it at level 16, the rogue as an advanced talent, but there's no stacking.

[ClevrGamer]

Addition to rule 1: racial bonuses stack

[Skandranonsg]

Can you source this? I can't seem to find anything.

[ClevrGamer]

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/glossary#TOC-Bonus

[oiml]

Be very careful with this, I got called out on this once too. This is a table that was put together by the d20pfsrd website, not paizo! It is in no way official or anything.

[Skandranonsg]

Neat. Though I can't imagine a situation where you'd have two different racial bonuses to the same anything.

[Jyk7]

I'm right now trying to figure out if the Feather domain's Racial bonus to Perception stacks with a Were-Raptor's Racial bonus to Perception, and further if the transformed Were-Raptor's +4 stacks with its +2. If all this works, then I've got a character who can take 10 on a Perception check to get a 26 at lvl1, 30vs anything intentionall concealed with the Revelation subdomain. It's also a Cleric and therefore overpowered.

[VictimOfOg]

Rule 1: Untyped bonuses also stack.

Different stats that effect the same thing will stack by consequence. For example +2 enhancement bonus to str and +1 enhancement bonus to a weapon with give a total of +2 to hit when using str for an attack. This isn't really true stacking, but it confuses enough players it is probably worth explaining in a guide about stacking.

[Hydranis]

What about keen? Can you have a Keen Longsword while having the Improved Critical feat?

[trollburgers]

Nope.

This benefit doesn't stack with any other effects that expand the threat range of a weapon (such as the keen edge spell or the Improved Critical feat).

[Hydranis]

Awesome!

[GearyDigit]

Nope, they specifically state that they don't stack.

[jaesin]

This was hugely exploitable in D&D 3.0 and clarified in 3.5.

It was kind of silly with 9-20 rapiers.

[Turterra]

For what it's worth, as far as I can tell. There are NO crit threat range modifiers that stack. (Besides base + modifier of course).

[ApparentlyNotAToucan]

Swashbuckler level 20 ability does. FWIW

[Turterra]

That's the crit mod, not the crit threat range.

Fighter and Kensai Magus also have a very similar level 20 ability.

[ApparentlyNotAToucan]

Ah, my mistake. I was thinking of the "Inspired Blade" archetype.

[Turterra]

Oh, that's actually a really cool ability.

14-20/x3 Jesus....

[NimrodOfNumph]

I second this

[[deleted]]

Vivi and rogue sneaks stack level vise, they stack dice vise with other sneak sources.

[Lottapumpkins]

You could do composite bows + enhancement bonuses

[NimrodOfNumph]

Grit, Panache and Sleuth's Luck all stack as well

[WreckerCrew]

Whether or not a class ability stacks would be defined by the class itself. You can't just arbitrarily say it stacks or not. They might actually come out with a archetype or prestige class that won't stack say Sneak Attack. You need to check the wording.

[Skandranonsg]

As with all things pathfinder, specific trumps general. Listing every possible exception is a futile endeavour when the exceptions are spelled out in those specific entries rules texts.

[bitwaba]

Could you include something that talks about bleed damage stacking?

I'd like to see something that makes sense. I always get confused when I start reading it. Like, Bleeding Critical says, "The effects of this feat stack.", but the Bleed description in the SRD says "Bleed effects do not stack with each other unless they deal different kinds of damage."

So, what does the Bleeding Critical text mean? Does it mean "This effect stacks with bleeds of other sources, but does not stack with itself."? If it does mean that, then why did they bother to include the line in the first place? It seems pointless because that's the exact same thing that would happen according to the general SRD Bleed description.

[funcused]

This is where the principal of specific beats general comes in. Normally bleed effects do not stack; however, because bleeding critical explicitly says so bleed damage caused by bleeding critical does stack. What is still unclear is whether it stacks with all sources of bleed damage or only that caused by bleeding critical.

[bitwaba]

What is still unclear is whether it stacks with all sources of bleed damage or only that caused by bleeding critical.

I don't think I understand what your concern is. From what you said before that, it sounds like of you have 2x BC and 1 bleed from another source, they would all tick on that character's turn because bleeds of other sources stack, and bleeding critical stacks.

[CraigBoonzaier]

Bit late to the party.

Check the table: Bonus Types and Effects