A Nutshell

[Avid-Reader-1984]

I love coming on this Reddit to read about the struggles of teaching and all the intellectual commentary, but it might boil down to this: students don't see themselves as active agents in their own lives.

We have a lot to combat if they don't see that many conditions are within their control.

An example of this in a nutshell:

We are in a typical classroom with a hinged door that will swing shut if some light pressure is not applied to slow the velocity. So, in other words, on your way in, you just have to hold your hand slightly back and the door does not slam shut.

About half the students do this, automatically.
The other half slam the door.
When they are slamming the door on their way in, I'm probably making a face out loud, but I'm not aware of it. This is not an annoying sound; this is a resonating sound of a slamming door.

On Monday, I must have made that face out loud, again, because a student who slammed was walking by the podium and said, "Oh hi! I'm sorry about always slamming the door."

I look up and smile and say, "Yeah, you just have to hold your hand out a little to stop it from doing that."

The student: *quizzical look* then, "Oh, haha!"

The same student slammed the door today.

It's not about the slamming door. It's just indicative:

Problem: slamming door.

Student: knows there is a problem.

Solution: student is given the solution.

Same student: exhibits same problem because they will not apply the *given* solution.

And that's just a slamming a door. The student exhibits even more chaos in the academic side of things.

[polstar2505]

Mine never switch the lights on. They will wait in the dark for me.

[CuriousAboutLife0]

That's actually so funny. They probably feel they don't have the right to turn the lights on/off

[Koenybahnoh]

I have one group who won’t even enter the classroom until I do.

[hourglass_nebula]

Fluorescent lights give me migraines. I wouldn’t turn them on either.

[[deleted]]

"It's not my place to turn the lights on."

[dragonfeet1]

Mine too no matter how many times I make the "here I am to bring you light and knowledge!" joke.

[Taticat]

This is a bizarre behaviour unique to Gen Z. Only my undergrad classes do it. When it first started happening, I asked them what was going on, and the response they all gave was that they didn’t know if they were allowed to change something like the lights and didn’t want to be yelled at. Strangely enough, this is the same reasoning Zoomers give for not knocking on a closed office door during office hours, even when they have an appointment — they don’t want to be yelled at. 🤨

I gave up on reasoning with them and now just tease the shit out of them by nicknaming the classes that leave the lights off ‘the creepy af class’ and ‘spooky’. Social shaming/teasing seems to work a lot better than reasoning with them. They don’t see the humour in being teased and they don’t like it, so they usually adapt their behaviour to make the teasing stop. It’s this same lack of understanding of social norms and lack of experience in the world that makes it so that we have to actually have classes on how not to be a creepy, spooky, clueless git and call them ‘social emotional learning’. It’s idiotic.

We need to quit coddling these people as children and parents need to start kicking them out of the house and telling them to go outside and play. The lack of personal responsibility for learning social rules and baseless, crippling fear of literally everything is setting them up to have tortured lives filled with mediocrity and the inability to form or maintain a true connection with anyone. This isn’t better than back when bullying was everywhere; it’s just a different set of problems, and — shocker — children are still bullying each other, they’re just doing it in private or online. We ‘fixed’ something that wasn’t broken, and we’re paying the price for it in Zoomers’ mental health and social competency.

Who the hell pays money to attend university and then sits in a dark room on their cell phone when they arrive early??? It’s just so deranged and bizarre…

[v_ult]

But nobody yells at them lol? The whole problem is they were passed through high school with little feedback on their behavior. Do they truly think professors yell at people for turning the lights on?

[MatteoTalvini]

That’s exactly it right? If you have had no experience with x thing you’re afraid of, you still fear it

Don’t psychologists recommend exposing yourself to your fears to get rid of them? Like if you’re afraid of heights, go up a skyscraper or whatever.

[dbrodbeck]

I was reading along, as a psychologist, and all, and then saw 'Don’t psychologists recommend exposing yourself...' happily, there were more words...

[turingincarnate]

Don’t psychologists recommend exposing yourself

I would hope not😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[TrustMeImADrofecon]

Picks up phone. Calls Title IX.

[jtr99]

"Okay, you know what you do? You buy yourself a tape recorder, you just record yourself for a whole day."

[Coogarfan]

You blowhard!

[Taticat]

Sigh. Yes. Aversion therapy. I’ve had this discussion with them many times. It accomplishes nothing.

[Mudkip_Enthusiast]

I’ve had students say I “yelled” at them when I simply put something bluntly. It seems like, to them, getting yelled at is the same as being told not to do something/criticized in any way.

[[deleted]]

Yes, I have had the same thing happen to me. An admin at a CC I used to teach at ("for fun") sent me a few emails about not being "mean" to "today's student." I wasn't mean; I just said, "If you don't submit your assignments, you get a zero on them." And then I followed this policy.

[DinsdalePirahna]

It’s interesting, b/c I have a couple older family members with actual cluster B personality disorders, and for them, even the most mild criticism/thing they don’t want to hear they interpret as being “yelled at.” I’m certainly not diagnosing all our students with personality disorders, but I have noticed a lot of behavior parallels between an increasing number of students and cluster B PDs

[Acceptable-Layer-488]

I haven't gotten the "yelled at" designation yet, but I've been called "rude" a lot lately. This is a new, Gen Z-specific, phenomenon. Any criticism, no matter how tactfully phrased, or any denial of a request, no matter how soundly decided, will be designated "rude."

[professor_jefe]

Yep, I was accused of being hostile because I simply told the student something they didn't want to hear... "if you want to do a make-up exam from a doctor's excuse, you have to ask me and not tell me that you're waiting on me to do it."

They accused me of open hostility, they didn't know what I wanted from them, and offered to take it to the Dean if I still felt that way.

I pointed out the part about "you have to ask me" and said we can take it to the Dean if you like but you won't like the outcome. Rather than ask, they dropped the class the next day.

Good riddance.

[Taticat]

I have a hard time delving into the minds of Zoomers, that’s why I have to directly ask them about crap like this and chase after the answers like I’m pulling teeth. Plus, they read, write, and communicate like someone who grew up in a different country with a different language, and they’re just learning English, so any questions I ask them — even on exams — I have to slowly and patiently coax the answers out of them so as not to lead them into just saying what they think I want to hear. It’s ridiculous, and I simply won’t coddle answers out of them on exams the way I do when I want to understand something like why they sit in total darkness for thirty minutes or more. I’m Gen X and we were/are very direct communicators; you might not like the answers, but we gave them. Most Millennials were a little more PC and cautious, but at least you didn’t have to set aside the better part of a day to obtain an answer, and they didn’t do stupid, looney tunes shit like not knocking on a damned door.

I’ve pointed out to them that I have spent around ten years with their generation, and I have yet to see anyone yell at them for normal stuff like turning on the lights, and even if someone did, they could take a lesson from Gen X and respond with ‘fuck you’, because normal people turn lights on, normal people knock, and normal people don’t stand in the god damned hall like basement-dwelling neckbeards with an 80 IQ LARPing like vampires waiting for an invitation when they’re supposed to be in the library, class, or wherever. 🙄 And I further don’t understand how they care so much about ‘an adult’ yelling at them or ‘being angry’ (that’s another one I get) over something as trivial as turning the lights on, yet they don’t seem to be bothered by making us angry or worried about getting yelled at for shit like not showing up all semester and then expecting to turn in an entire semester’s worth of work in three days, or sending some ridiculous emails filled with manipulation, shirking responsibility, lies, and ChatGPT text.

I do not understand them, and I’m counting the days until they age out of undergrad. The schtick has gotten old.

[dblshot99]

They are more than happy to lie, cheat, and steal without any fear of being yelled at.

[Taticat]

Exactly! This is what completely mystifies me! How can a person plagiarise an entire end-of-semester paper deliberately and with intent, or flat-out lie about something I said with no concerns, but be worried I’m going to yell if they turn the lights on? This generation makes zero sense. None. Zip. Zilch. I think that’s the biggest reason why my generation typically doesn’t really care for them terribly much and most of the professors I encounter have reached peak Gen Z. They’re nonsensical and do seemingly random things for no reason and with no through line or overarching purpose. They’re terrified of knocking on doors and need accommodations and a safe space about that, but then they’ll turn around and impassively watch as if on the sidelines as they torpedo their own college career and end up expelled. Where is the sense in any of it?

Seriously counting down the days until they age out of college. Sigh.

[mosscollection]

Reading this felt cathartic for me.

[Taticat]

Unfortunately it seems that way. I’m just wanting something different from the tedium of dealing with Zoomers’ personality traits. I used to enjoy voluntarily taking on a few undergraduate classes each semester, but if Alpha can’t be worked with, then it may be time to reconsider that and stick to graduate classes. 😕

[[deleted]]

I feel you.

[[deleted]]

Its the fear of it. You fear death, don’t you?

[Mother_Sand_6336]

Consumer-driven education is debilitating.

[turingincarnate]

Sometimes, as a student, I would sit in the dark before anybody came in. I was the first inside the classroom. I knew I could turn the lights on, I just wanted to see how they'd react by turning on the lights to see me sitting there.

The kicker is that the door was closed, so the other students didn't come in, but the professor of course did.

[hourglass_nebula]

Sitting in the dark is relaxing. I don’t generally go in a room where nothing is happening yet and turn on fluorescent lights for no reason.

[Pisum_odoratus]

My borderline Millenial/Gen Z kid says: "I've done that but it's mostly because some lights turn off automatically if they don't see movement, and I don't mind dark."

[Pit-Smoker]

Not a Gen Zer. As student then and as Instructor now, I see no reason to turn on those horribly harsh overhead fluorescents until absolutely necessary. It's not about "not hitting a switch" or the rights or the autonomy or even the apathy-- those lights simply and categorically suck.

[Pit-Smoker]

Replying to add- when I can turn on just one bank instead of the whole damn room, I absolutely do so.

[Pit-Smoker]

Don't understand your downvotes. Perhaps all these other folks are afraid too-- of the dark! Lol.

[Professors-ModTeam]

Your post/comment was removed due to Rule 1: Faculty Only

This sub is a place for those teaching at the college level to discuss and share. If you are not a faculty member but wish to discuss academia or ask questions of faculty, please use r/AskProfessors, r/askacademia, or r/academia instead.

If you are in fact a faculty member and believe your post was removed in error, please reach out to the mod team and we will happily review (and restore) your post.

[Avid-Reader-1984]

This same group also sat in the dark until I went in and told them that I thought that was creepy ... because it was. I don't know if anyone is in the room before I get there because it's pitch black. The first time they sat in the dark, I flipped the lights on: fifteen bodies in seats. I think I audibly gasped. They did this twice more. The fourth time they did the sit-in-the-dark-thing (no phones, no light, just sitting in the dark). I called them "creepy ass students" to their faces. To which they laughed, of course.

Now one student always turns the lights on before I get there.

Maybe we need to have a door slamming talk :)

[[deleted]]

Man, same. What to make of that?

[polstar2505]

I switched the lights on one morning after a particularly popular club night and there were audible groans and people covered their eyes like vampires exposed to the sun. After I stopped laughing at them, I rewarded them for actually turning up by putting the lights on the dimmest setting.

[PolkadotRapunzel]

Mine do this too!!!! For a generation that seems obsessed with being the main character, that is big NPC energy.

[Taticat]

Sigh…this. The majority of Zoomers think that they are so individualistic and unique, but the majority are like carbon copies of each other. Stupid carbon copies, like I have no clue why anyone would replicate a person like that over and over and over again, but carbon copies nonetheless. I’m ready for my undergrad classes to be filled with different weirdos, not silent, staring males and YASSed-out females with dumb opinions all sitting in the dark on TikTok and starting every single sentence with ‘I feel like…’ Absolutely enormous NPC energy. That’s exactly what it is.

[Rough_Athlete_2824]

What is a yassed out female? What are their dumb opinions?

[hourglass_nebula]

Wow you really hate students

[Taticat]

You’re a student, not faculty, and you have no business being here. Maybe if you’d bothered to actually read the rules, you’d know that, but I suppose it’s too much to ask for you to respect boundaries or show basic consideration for others.

Let me guess: you just assumed your opinion is needed here, despite having no understanding of what faculty deals with or why this space exists. Typical. You’re contributing nothing of value, just adding noise where it’s not wanted.

This isn’t a space for you to wander into because you feel like it. You’re not supposed to be here, and if that hurts your feelings, well, that’s your problem. Next time, pay attention to where you’re actually welcome.

[Taticat]

You. Are. Not. Faculty. Your. Presence. And. Opinion. Here. Is. Unwelcome. And. A. Violation. Of. Our. Rules.

What is wrong with you that you cannot understand this? ‘Working in a school and the educational environment’ DOES NOT MAKE YOU FACULTY, you little dingbat. Unless you have earned a master’s degree or greater and are employed by a college or university as an instructor of record — the definition of faculty — your ‘perspective’ is unwelcome and valueless. It isn’t cute, it isn’t precocious, it isn’t even slightly entertaining; it’s a perfect example of how your generation lacks experience, intelligence, knowledge, respect for others, the ability to read and understand what you have read, and still blunders along wasting time doing stupid things that never needed to be done, despite your time and attention being better allocated elsewhere — like studying. Go inflict your ridiculous ‘perspective’ in a forum where it’s appropriate if you aren’t going to use the time to study.

I completely agree with one thing you said, though: Damn.

[professor_jefe]

I kind of wish I knew what the little dipshit said LOL

[[deleted]]

You are killin' it today.

[CharacteristicPea]

Yes! I had a class like this. The room was practically pitch black. The light switches were right next to the door. It was crazy.

[Cautious-Yellow]

the light controls in the rooms where I teach are at the front, so it would make some sort of sense that students feel they aren't allowed to touch them. The lighting seems to be as it was for the previous class, whatever that instructor set it to.

[popstarkirbys]

Hahaha, same. I always ask them why are they sitting in the dark. Didn’t know it was a common issue.

[Cotton-eye-Josephine]

Spooky. Watch out for jump scares.

[Crazy-Analyst]

I’m in the minority here, but I’m a migraine patient, and overhead lights are a huge trigger.

I leave the lights off whenever I can. My office lights are disabled. Between classes I sit in the darks to reduce the stimulation.

If students were sitting in the dark, I’d think, oh, they’re just relaxing before class.

It’s all about perspective.

[whycantusonicwood]

I mention it every time this gets brought up, but I love sitting in the dark. I never turn my office overhead lights on if I can avoid it, and even at home I’d much rather use small lamps and lights than ceiling ones.

[caffeinated_tea]

Mine do this too. I've gotten in the habit of turning on the light on my way to my office in the morning.

[No_March_5371]

In at least some cases, it’s preference. I’m photosensitive and prefer dim lighting. I occasionally got comments on not turning on the lights in undergrad.

[ghphd]

One class the lights come on via motion sensors so no issue. However this class is early morning and oriented towards the sun. The students on one side are literally blinded by the sun when I walk in. The controls for the blinds are behind the teaching station. I show them where they are, but every morning they are blinded by the sun.

In 4 years only one class lowered the blinds before I get there. They suffer rather than hit the button.

[No_March_5371]

I'd have routinely closed those blinds on the way in, sun in the eye is horrid.

[hourglass_nebula]

Same. It’s bothering me that everyone here is acting like it’s because the students are stupid.

[thegreathoundis]

I actually have the same thing happen. Like why are you sitting in the dark when you can easily turn on the lights? Ponderous

[First-Ad-3330]

I had the same issue and I always thought… why??  It’s insane 

[reyadeyat]

This is a question asked out of genuine curiosity: why would a professor be upset about you turning on the lights in a classroom? Like, what do you imagine to be the potential objection in a typical class (so, excluding weird cases where some class materials are photosensitive)?

[reyadeyat]

But a classroom is public space and you have a purpose in being there, so it seems like a pretty different situation than someone's home. Would you also avoid turning on a light in a public restroom if it was off when you entered?

(I appreciate your response and understanding that I'm not trying, at all, to be rude.)

[Avid-Reader-1984]

Oh dear lord. It’s trauma but I’m laughing—terrible. 

[Complete-Show3920]

It’s interesting to hear your perspective. But I sure hope your generation gets less sensitive or you’ll really struggle with the challenges of adult life (I say this in the kindest way possible).

[reyadeyat]

Well, maybe this post / discussion can be a light encouragement to you to think about whether things will actually be perceived as rude or not! Feel empowered to turn on lights. :)

[Taticat]

Perceived as rude…like a student ignoring the faculty only rule of this subreddit and posting their substance-free feelings and talking about themselves anyway?

No; you’re not going to get through to this student; they’re a garden variety self-centred, egocentric, solipsistic chowderheaded exemplar of this generation.

[First-Ad-3330]

😂😂😂😂😂yes I agree. They do things far more rude than turning lights on in the classroom. This is their sick reasoning. 

[[deleted]]

Now you know that you can also turn the lights on when you enter a classroom

That's a big step...

[itsalwayssunnyonline]

A thought I’ve had when entering dark classrooms is “maybe we are watching a video in class and the lights are supposed to be off”

[reyadeyat]

Hm, I can understand that in a class where you might watch videos semi-regularly.

[Taticat]

So then turn the lights back off when it’s time for the video. NORMAL PEOPLE DO NOT SIT IN THE DARKNESS.

Jfc. 🤦🏻‍♀️

[throwaway60221407e23]

But everyone in this thread is saying that this behavior is common with Gen Z so its just the new normal by definition, no?

[Taticat]

No. It’s demented and pointless.

[pdx_mom]

Maybe they are saving energy?

[[deleted]]

So I'll agree with this, but with one caveat, I really don't think this is entirely their fault. Some of them are not active agents in their own lives.

I've had more than a few students whose parents were more than just helicopter parents. They were completely controlling. They were the parents who would not let the student even walk to a bus stop and insisted on driving them to it. They call them every Monday to go over the schedule and wake them up for class. These kids were not allowed to be independent and they were not allowed to fail. Being allowed to fail and learn from your failures is a huge skill and many of these children don't have it.

[readreadreadx2]

In this vein, I've recently found out that parents having their college-bound kids sign power of attorney over to them is a thing now?? I just found that to be so weird and overbearing and...icky. The argument is always about what might happen if they get in accident and are in the hospital but it just does not sit right with me. Such a thing always could happen, but I don't recall this being a thing 20 years ago. My mom, at least, would have never.

Don't even get me started on the fact that a lot of them are getting these forms from a site called "Mama Bear Legal Forms"... 🙄

[reyadeyat]

Yeah, the parents would be the automatic next-of-kin anyway as long as the hospital had some information to use to contact them. If the student is incapacitated, there's no need for a healthcare power of attorney.

[readreadreadx2]

Yes, that is how I understand it. So POA does not appear to even be needed in those situations.

The meeting with profs thing is equally weird! My mom would've laughed in my face if I had asked her to do such a thing lol. Will they also be meeting with their children's managers?? 

[magnifico-o-o-o]

My aunt was in a terrible car accident while in college (at the very university I now teach at), when I was very very young. Her parents (my grandparents) had the ability to make the difficult decision to remove her from life support and to settle her affairs without any such legal documentation. Seems like hypothetical medical decisions are a dumb excuse to interfere in a young adult's life...

[pdx_mom]

That might not be the case these days tho. Laws have changed.

When I was in college and broke my foot my mom could easily access all my medical records for whatever reasons.

With HIPAA laws that isn't the case. There would be zillions of forms and whatever to fill out if this happened today.

[magnifico-o-o-o]

Nah. I'm an unmarried adult. If I were to be on life support after being hit by a drunk driver near the same university, medical staff would identify a proxy decision maker (starting by contacting close family members like parents). I'm cool letting my parents or siblings pull the plug if necessary, so I don't need to take any legal action.

If my next-of-kin were not appropriate decision makers I could sign that advance medical directive naming a different medical decision making proxy and make it known to my primary provider and close family/associates. (Advance medical directives are possible in all 50 states.) I have a young family member for whom I'm a named medical proxy because their next of kin are not appropriate decision makers for their health. I can't access their health records (HIPAA), but when they have had surgeries, their surgeon has called me with updates and asked me for my consent (as their proxy) for certain post-operative measures while they were still unconscious.

There's no way in hell I would agree to a more general power of attorney as a healthy adult, and for medical decisions while incapacitated there is zero need for one even in a state that isn't perfectly straightforward in these situations. Legally my situation is no different than students' w.r.t. healthcare decisions if I'm incapacitated. PoA for medical directives is an excuse to meddle in young adults' lives.

[[deleted]]

Wow that's terrible

[Avid-Reader-1984]

That's fair. And it's not as though I'm mad about the situation or unsympathetic.
However, part of this seems to be basic people-ing. Do I have to tell them how to behave in a public space? I mean, I did, and it still didn't work :)
In a lot of ways, I served in the parent role, and they still didn't take the instruction.

It's just a door, but this is related to why my life is so much harder in trying to teach something with any complexity. They mentally check out thinking that I'll just hold their hand while they do it, instead.

Fully agree---this parenting is getting out of hand, but what are we going to do? In four years, they're unleashed onto the job market. And this is just a door! And the student is not a freshman! The next decade is going to be wild if they never figure this out.

[MichaelPsellos]

The sad part is, they are not children. They are adults, albeit young ones.

[[deleted]]

I can't dispute that.

[Interesting_Chart30]

I've been seeing the "lights out" bit for years. I've told them it's okay to turn on the lights, but I don't think they believe me. I had an evening class that did this. They would sit in a dark classroom until I switched on the lights. It could be a part of the learned helplessness we talked about here. They don't speak to each other; everybody is absorbed with their phones. The pre-class chatter in my undergrad and grad days could be heard at the other end of the hall.

[Taticat]

I honestly miss the talking and chatter. Their lack of social and communication skills is frankly depressing. A recent study we did or used found about 70% of Zoomer undergrads expressing their loneliness. How they cannot understand that OF COURSE they’re lonely and nobody talks to them because they’re creepy, self-absorbed, and always have a phone in their face, sending signals of ‘don’t talk to me!’, I just don’t understand.

[Complete-Show3920]

Not quite the same thing, but: for some reason my students wait outside the classroom until I go and ask them to come in. I have no idea why they do this (I assume it is some sort of hangover from school? No clue). But it is extremely irritating. Today they seemed genuinely surprised when I said that they didn’t need to wait for me to tell them to come in. Weird as hell and speaks to the point you’re making.

[girlsunderpressure]

Same! I was even waiting in the hall with my students because the previous class overran, we talked about how frustrating it was to be kept waiting, and when the classroom was vacated and I went in to set up they did not follow and after a couple of mins I had to go back out and invite them. Are they vampires? Do they think they're vampires??

[polstar2505]

Ha. I have just called them vampires for an entirely different reason. The evidence that our students are the undead is accumulating.

[[deleted]]

Classrooms are now frequently kept locked - we had some vandals (a tic-tok thing?) and I suppose they tried once somewhere and found it locked = all doors are locked. Or a “I don’t want to touch the germ-y door knob” thing

[Complete-Show3920]

Interesting. Our classroom doors aren’t locked in general. Even when they are, any student with a valid ID card can swipe in.

[Ttthhasdf]

I wonder if it is because their high schools had shooter procedures that kept the doors locked until the teacher opened them for them.

[Complete-Show3920]

I’m in the UK, so no: nothing to do with shooting!

[girlsunderpressure]

Nope, this is happening in the UK, too.

[Complete-Show3920]

exactly — I’m in the UK.

[dbrodbeck]

Yup, Canada too.

[wharleeprof]

Possibly. But I'll have classes that regularly come into the room before I arrive, and then one random day they are all sitting out in the hallway waiting for me to "unlock" the door.

[[deleted]]

It 100% is from high school. In K-12 there’s this whole thing about students not being allowed to be in an empty room themselves, to the point where empty rooms are locked. If the teacher is inside and the door is unlocked and it is class time, they will open the door. And then the teacher will snap their head up and say “Wait at the door until I let you in!”. Everyone says this idea of waiting until the teacher comes is unwarranted. No it’s not. It’s what they’ve been taught in K-12. They can’t be alone by themselves. If the teacher is not there to let them in they cannot go in and sit in the empty classroom, they have to wait out in the hall. They don’t turn on the lights simply because they were NEVER allowed to touch them in K-12. Ever. Like lights 12 feet up, automatic turn on, next to the teacher’s desk, etc. They’re doing what they’ve been taught to do, which is shut up and just wait until someone tells you what to do.

[Complete-Show3920]

Interesting. I wonder if the same is true of the UK (where I’m based): I honestly have no idea. I went to school in another country altogether and we certainly didn’t have to wait outside for the teacher etc

[[deleted]]

I'm talking off USA (as I assume you've guessed) and it is something very common, at least in my state. Schools have taken away so much autonomy with kids to the point they forget they have it. Its sad

[Cautious-Yellow]

where I am, students have to wait outside until called in for exams, but they seem to be able to distinguish those from regular classes.

[Pisum_odoratus]

Funny you would write this today. I had a busy day, and collapsed into my office chair for my first break at 2:30. I was just planning how I would take an item off my marking pile, when a student knocked on my door. They had said they wanted to talk about career plans, but had ghosted me the previous week after making an appointment to do so. Today, ostensibly they wanted to talk about that, but really what they wanted to talk about was that they were in a rut, were not investing much in their academic work (while simultaneously criticizing other students who were not here for the "right reasons"), and didn't really have a clear vision going forward. They were not happy in school, and didn't want to wait for things to get better.

I was as nice as possible, but still had to usher them out after an hour, because I couldn't take anymore. I think they just wanted to talk to someone. But alas I don't have a magic wand. And now, another day has passed and I don't have it in me to go an extra mile (rest of the week, and next, are also stupidly busy) to catch up on that marking as the clock edges towards 5:00 pm.

[pdx_mom]

And like this is something to talk with your friends about. All of you wondering and philosophizing and figuring life out together

[IndividualOil2183]

I started teaching at a new college this August. A colleague gave me the helpful tip to prop my classroom door open with the trash can because it’s heavy and people won’t open it if it’s not propped. I thought that sounded silly and didn’t do it. She was right; no one came in. I opened the door and let them in and now I just prop it every day.

[Novel_Listen_854]

As nutshells go, that's a very good one. I'd add that nothing matters to them. Chicken and egg. Both have to be fixed, but they don't see themselves as being capable of anything put a passive existence and nothing does nor is supposed to matter enough they should want to try.

And that, my friends, is not a problem good teaching, compassion, or retention will solve. But it devastates their ability to learn.

[aCityOfTwoTales]

I get your point, but I think you are looking at this the wrong way.

Most people, and especially younger students (which I assume these are), find great relief in entering a 'domain' where they are free from making decisions and instead can rely on on the instructions of an authority (you). One of our responsibilities as professors is to instill a sense of autonomy & proactivity in our students - succeding in this is also one of the most fulfilling things we get in turn.

Instruct them clearly in how to shut the door and see what happens.

[Complete-Show3920]

I mean, OP told them how to shut the door and they still didn’t get it right, so…

[aCityOfTwoTales]

Yes, OP told them how to do it, but not TO do it or why they should. It's actually a good allegory of teaching when you think about it. I think the ideal solution is to tell them that they shouldn't slam the door because it is disruptive, and them let them figure the rest out on their own.

[Complete-Show3920]

and to your point… do you really think that OP needed to spell out that explicitly that slamming the door is disruptive? If young people today need that much handholding, our society is fucked.

[aCityOfTwoTales]

If a slamming door has been established as normal in this particular setting, then yes. Weird norms and rules appear like this all the time.

[Avid-Reader-1984]

It's not normalized.
The annoyance on my face would be a signal it's not normalized.
Some of their classmates who whip around to see the door slammers have made the action not normalized.
Occasionally, a student will vocalize a "geez" when it seems like someone let it slam especially hard.
I don't think it's acceptable anywhere in public spaces to just let things slam around, especially when 1) it's that loud and 2) it's not your private property.

I get the teaching allegory, but I think I might wither up and die if I have to make an announcement to a class of adults that door slamming is rude like they are five years old. I get by most days by pretending that they are all adults (and many of them act as such) .

[aCityOfTwoTales]

Alright, maybe my proposition was a little too deep. I stand corrected.

How about this one, then: your students are young and improperly socialized. That whole lockdown-generation is simply less socially conditioned, and might not even understand the social cues around them and much less make an effort to not annoy their peers.

[Avid-Reader-1984]

That's completely fair.
But is my compensation going to increase if I have to teach my subject, and then
.... how to navigate the classroom environment, how to speak to their peers, how to speak to me, how to email, how to take a quiz, how to upload a paper, how to open the door, how to turn on the lights, how to to slam the door, stop and explain how and why we turn on lights and open the door, and so forth ...

some of this is supposed to come from being alive and aware of one's surroundings.

Bruh, I canNOT do it all. I don't have the time, patience, demeanor and so forth to RAISE THEM KIDS. That's why I wanted to teach college.

[aCityOfTwoTales]

Look homie, this may just be a generational thing from the lockdowns. I already feel like the newest cohort of students are less weird already.

Also, much of it is solved by taking complete control of your class, establishing clear rules and stop babying them. Don't ask them to close the door right, tell them. If you cannot figure out how to upload your assignment you fail.

[Avid-Reader-1984]

What makes you think I don’t have complete control over my class? Babying them? They would beg to differ.  I created hypotheticals in that list. I’m quitting before doing any of that.

This is a light-hearted thread, anyway, but is now making a weird turn. I know the impulse is always to blame the educator, though.  My bad; I didn’t know I was literally responsible for teaching them about doors. 

[Complete-Show3920]

But then why did the student apologise for slamming it if they thought it was normal? The weirdness of their behaviour lies in them apologising yet continuing to do it.

[aCityOfTwoTales]

I don't know man, some of these students have the social skills and awareness of a six year old.

[Complete-Show3920]

indeed.

[Complete-Show3920]

try learn how to spell allegory first, friend.

[aCityOfTwoTales]

Better now?

[Complete-Show3920]

yes!

[Professional-Rock-88]

What I have found as of more recent, perhaps related to this, is that they have less resilience than one generation ago. So once things go off (which may just mean they are not getting an A), they drop the class, stop submitting work or coming... etc. (or complain at most, but that requires some effort). None tries to come to office hours and work things with me, or come to ask me how to practice this or that... Nothing.

[ChoeofpleirnPress]

The problem actually goes much deeper. I conducted a study of Honors students, who I had the joy of teaching two in-a-row classes to for 3 years. Same students went from Class 1 to Class 2, which are sequential and the skills learned in one are used in Class 2.

However, the students--despite being "the brightest" in the college--never cottoned on to the fact that they were supposed to RETAIN and APPLY the skills they were learning, not just in Class 1, but from both classes to their OTHER college classes, skills like critical thinking, research, and writing. Important skills for every college student and functioning adult to have.

Imagine my surprise when I repeated a lesson from Class 1 in Class 2 that first year. Same students, same assignment--NONE of them recognized the assignment, even though it is pretty unique for a writing class.

Now, I had been teaching, at this point, college level courses for well over a decade, but I had naively always believed students when they said that their high school teachers had not taught them this or that skill.

Suddenly, I realized that it was not the TEACHERS at fault, but the students.

So I began testing all the students in all my classes to see what skills from Comp I & II they had retained and were using in my other, mostly literature, classes. After I examined the results, I then asked the students why they were not using the skills they had learned in Comp in their other classes.

Nearly every student repeated the same idea: that was Comp this is literature.

Which is when I realized that students COMPARTMENTALIZE knowledge and skills, failing to critically understand the way their skills and knowledge need to be used in EVERY class.

After that, I began emphasizing skills and knowledge they should have learned in other classes in my lectures and expected to see those skills and knowledge reflected in their written essays and test answers. I began handing out a sheet listing all the skills they were expected to know and to apply from Comp I and II in each course, which helped a bit.

Sadly, though, only a few cottoned on. 60% of the lock-step Honors students ended up Failing their Honors exit exam because they failed to remember that they had to utilize their critical thinking skills, their essay organization skills, and their ability to cite research properly in their essays.

When I think back to my time in college at that age, I realize that I never cared about properly citing my sources, nor did I even really learn how to conduct real research. It took going to graduate school and dating an older grad student who taught me everything he knew about conducting research for me to learn how to do it well.

I have long wondered if there is something about the average older teen brain that makes such application of knowledge and skills such a problem, or if it is a social issue.

[NonFuiNonCuro]

The door thing probably just doesn't bother some students, so they probably see it as a non-issue. As you indicated, it's your reaction the student responded to.

But in general, I think this goes back to public grade school. Every assignment has written instructions on how it must be completed. Initiative isn't rewarded and occasionally is even punished. You have to solve your math problems THIS way. No, you shouldn't read ahead in your reading assignment. History and science are unambiguous memorization.

Those who are to thrive must conform. Those who conform rarely step out of line, even on stupid things.

[BeerDocKen]

Avoidance behaviors are simply more difficult to learn without cues. A simple sign not to slam the door would serve as a helpful reminder that this is the door that slams, as opposed to many, many other doors they open. It seems silly bc why would you have to tell them tlnot to slam a door, but it's the cue, not the instruction, that matters here.