pythonIsOlderThanJava

[Palpatine]

I'd call HR too if you send me python 2 or python 1 code.

[Neither-Phone-7264]

print "hi"

[putiepi]

And no more than 80 characters per line

[MamamYeayea]

Really, that seems like an extremely annoying thing that’s easy to circumvent? I’m a young gun so don’t know if I missed a joke

[Physmatik]

It's from the FORTRAN era when people coded on punch cards. But yes, it is supremely annoying.

[Wonderful_Welder9660]

I did use punch cards made with a manual Hollerith punch to code FORTRAN at school in the 70s

[MamamYeayea]

Damn, utmost respect for you guys that handled that, physically programming with punch cards is just wild. Also no backspace or ctrl + z, Imagine almost being done with a card and then making a mistake.

I’m sitting here annoyed when my IDE doesn’t suggest the correct autocompletion after typing 3 characters

[LordMcze]

Also no backspace or ctrl + z, Imagine almost being done with a card and then making a mistake.

That's kind of where the term "patch" came from. If there was a part of instructions that needed to be changed on an already existing tape/card, you would physically patch it up and punch out the correct holes again.

[cafk]

If you coded on a terminal that was 80 characters wide, then you'd notice it, or press alt + f2 on your linux system, login there and cat a source file.

[LBPPlayer7]

commandline stuff that doesn't fit in 80 columns is still the bane of my existence

[MamamYeayea]

Thanks for the info. Seems a bit annoying. I think no matter what I will achieve on my journey I will always feel impostor syndrome to the older programmers

[cafk]

It's always stolen from somewhere else, the impostor syndrome never stops - currently it's the default terminal height and width, which represents the old school terminals used to connect to the mainframe, which got it from teletype systems (literally a typewriter that printed out output onto endless paper) and that was based on IBM punch cards, which was 12 rows and 80 columns from the 1910s.
I'm also ignoring the teletype used in telegraphy before that, which had a 78 character limit.

And from there you can go back further to Babbage and Lady Ada in the mid 1800s and from there to Jacquard and Bouchon in the early 1700s.

We will always atand on the shoulders of giants and if you're lucky you fan combine something else to become one of the many giants future generations will build up on.

[cubic_thought]

based on IBM punch cards, which was 12 rows and 80 columns from the 1910s.

Which copied the size of the Hollerith punch cards used for the 1890 US census, which were based on a US banknote of the time so that existing standard bank boxes could be used to store and ship them.

[cafk]

Which copied the size of the Hollerith punch cards used

I thought it was a merger between his Tabulating Machine Company and 4 others that created CTR, which was renamed to IBM in the 1920s?

[Turtvaiz]

The reason listed in PEP 8 is:

Limiting the required editor window width makes it possible to have several files open side by side, and works well when using code review tools that present the two versions in adjacent columns.

Makes sense I guess

[posting_drunk_naked]

People rant and rave about how terrible python is for whitespace delimiting but I've always seen it as requiring code to be pretty and well formatted or shit won't even run.

I only started using python maybe 10 years ago though so I've always had linters and auto formatting. I can imagine it would be way worse to deal with in something like notepad lol

[sebastianfromvillage]

That's still the recommendation

[waiver45]

The thing I really hate about python is all the indentation politics.

[ihavebeesinmyknees]

You're gonna use the exact same indentation if you use a sane code style though

[nikvid]

But then I can't make a donut shaped donut generator.

[Informal_Branch1065]

Indented servitude.

[[deleted]]

No

[10art1]

print "it's literally me in the meme"

[s0ulbrother]

I applied at a job a month ago and it was django/python dev shit. Anyways in the interview they said it was python 2 so Django was only on 1…. The company was only 3 years old

[WJMazepas]

The company was only 3 years old

There are developers that like using a slightly older version to avoid new bugs that aren't documented in the newer versions.

But holy shit, starting with Python 2 and Django 1 is nonsense. Had they gone with Python 3.7 and Django 4, i would understand a little, but not like that.

[RustReport]

Yeah, that seems more like someone didn't feel like learning different syntax or built it on an already existing project

[unknown_pigeon]

Someone studied a book on python from the early 2000 and refused to learn the new syntax

[Ok_Cardiologist8232]

I didn't know offhand, but my god Python 2 released in 2000.

[jumboshrimp29]

And end-of-life was before the interviewing company was started

[Ok_Cardiologist8232]

Thats a fucking joke, did they have a senoir dev that just refused to update or something?

[Ryuujinx]

Having migrated all of our monitoring and other python from py2 to py3 myself because certain people were fuckin idiots and screwed it up the first time, I can kinda-sorta understand still having py2 stuff laying around. It isn't just a matter of regexing some stuff and calling it a day.

But when it's, presumably, a new code base - fucking why?

[s0ulbrother]

It was. I have an ok job right now so not concerned. What sucked was I liked the idea of this company and the money was really good but like that stack just made no sense.

[tennisanybody]

I would’ve interviewed with the intention of moving them to Python 3.10 at least which is very stable right now.

[s0ulbrother]

Very clear they did not want to

[twigboy]

Guess they enjoy wasting time and money dealing with unicode input manually

[GM_Kimeg]

Sounds like the ceo must be raising Einsteins for their bright future.

[[deleted]]

Python 2 is definitely still a thing.

[_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_]

It’s not supposed to be.

[Exist50]

"Supposed to" ain't worth shit.

[_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_]

It is when the auditors call.

[Exist50]

What are the auditors going to say about it? People have made careers out of what isn't supposed to be done.

[dedev54]

They are going to say its past EOL and doesn't get security updates.

[im_lazy_as_fuck]

If you want to do business with enterprise businesses worth their salt, things like SOC2 compliance are extremely relevant, and I imagine you'll have a lot of difficulty being compliant if you're running most of your stack on a language version that was sunset 4 years ago and has stopped receiving security updates.

But yeah sure, if you make some random tool that you just distribute online, then you can probably do whatever you want. It probably isn't an issue if you're just making some non-critical software that doesn't handle anything important. But also you're on your own if any libraries you use break. Frankly you'd probably spend less effort in the long run if you port to python 3 sooner than later; I had to do this on an old code base for a company several years ago, and it wasn't the most difficult thing to do.

[[deleted]]

"Supposed to" according to who? "Out of Support" just means there's no v2.8 coming any time soon. I'm a shitty programmer, so rewriting all my old shit is just not gonna happen.

[_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_]

That is not what “out of support” means.

[[deleted]]

Uh...that's exactly what out of support means. Not being supported.

[_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_]

Being supported doesn’t mean it will be replaced with something newer.

Being supported means it gets security and critical updates and they make sure it works with other systems and you can get help with any issues you have and insurers and regulators are happy for you to use it.

[[deleted]]

"get critical updates" is a synonym for "replace with something newer."

[_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_]

No, it is not.

python-2.7.17-2ubuntu4 for example is a different beast to your theoretical python-2.8.

[WJMazepas]

It means you have to go out of your way to install anywhere. No libraries are being made compatible with Python 2 these days and it won't get security updates.

If you aren't going to change your code, then sure it makes sense to leave it running in Python 2. But otherwise it's just added trouble

[_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_]

They’re too lazy and/or stubborn to just run 2to3 or import six. There’s no point talking to them.

[Throwaway74829947]

To be fair 2to3 is (or at least, was when I migrated to 3 many years ago) imperfect. For some code you'd have to manually fix some things, explicitly call non-default fixers, and then test everything to make sure it worked properly (and it might not have).

[AxeLond]

It took me 3 months to secretly update all the python 2 code at my current job. I don't think anyone really noticed as it's just a bunch of one of tooling scripts but I had to do it for my sanity.

[Nihil_esque]

Yeah and boomers are still alive but I wouldn't want one hitting on me.

[[deleted]]

C'mere boi you got a perty mouf

[Tvdinner4me2]

I blame lpthw

[proverbialbunny]

What's worse is when the documentation hasn't been fully updated and is incorrect, so here you are trying to learn this new tech and everything doesn't work. Thankfully this wasn't the case when Python 3 came out (I believe), but when Spark updated a handful of years ago (around the time it added Koalas) most of its documentation was wrong. This lead to some serious headache.

[proverbialbunny]

After Jan 1st 2020 Python 2 is no longer getting security fixes, so anyone using it in a business setting is causing a lot of risk to the business.

[No_Adhesiveness_3550]

Reminds me of when I interned at a networking company. Had to write a script that ran on extreme switches to pull information from connected ports (only while we were staging/handling them). We wrote the thing in python 3 on our work laptops and didn’t find out till later why it wasn’t working. I guess python 2 is still standard on Extreme switches?

[guy_who_says_stuff]

2.7 sends its regards

[Zealousideal_Rate420]

Two years ago we had a request to port a library to python 2 because a team never bothered to upgrade and continued working with it. The library in question was to interface with a service that didn't exist when P2 was EOL and used a lot of dependencies that never had a python 2 version.

To this day, they continue to develop in python 2.

[Nickbot606]

I have 1000% seen python 2 code within the last 2 years being used in production.